Future Abortion Providers

[fancypants]

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Oats....I wish I had some oats....oh the pain....mother....I see the green pastures.....I'm galloping towards the light....the pain is leaving me....why is that man beating me?....I'm dying and he keeps beating me...

Now now, Panda Bear, this abortion thread is waay different from the other abortion threads. In case you didn't notice the smiley face, this is a happy thread filled with veggietales, rainbows, unicorns and… abortion.

Now, back to the beatings...

Also, do all FP and Peds residencies routinely teach IUD insertion? Please update us with specific information on IUD training at your institution.

I know that the FP Residency affiliated with my medical school, UNECOM, had IUD training as part of training. I'm unsure of how many insertions each resident needs to perform to meet the requirement.

I don't think many Peds programs offer training in IUD insertion (maybe during your Adolescent clinic rotation?), and if they did, it would be a very small part of your training.

FP residencies have a significant amount of OBG training, but most FPs don't do much obg after residency (due to malpractice etc). It seems like an OBGYN residency is the best choice for you if you're really passionate about women's health. Can I ask why you're so dead set against obg? Well, I guess I could understand why someone would want to avoid it (aka Satan's Specialty), but it kinda seems like the natural choice for someone who wants to be an abortion provider.

 

[georgia_md]

Don't qoute me, but I think the ACGME requires that all OB/GYN residency programs provide abortion training. But then the Coats amendment states that such program do not need to provide that type of training in order to stay accredited and/or receive federal funding.

 

[8744]

...Now now, Panda Bear, this abortion thread is waay different from the other abortion threads. In case you didn’t notice the smiley face, this is a happy thread filled with veggietales, rainbows, unicorns and… abortion...

Is there a "Future Abortion Provider" T-shirt?" If not, why not?

Good rule of thumb: Never work at a job which you would not proclaim on a T-shirt.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

Much better. I appreciate your effort to tone down the personal attacks and talk more about the issues (far from perfect, but a nice start). Let me make a suggestion: Ignore my messages from now on. Don't read them & don't reply to them. In fact, you can stop reading my message now and skip to the next person's message. If you do read my messages and reply, I'll take it that you have some interest, whether sensible or not. Do realize I'm not planning to stop posting or whatever it is that you have in mind in your "agenda."

I posted my opinion precisely because I wish to disclose my bias. Yes, I'm biased. I was up-front about it. This thread attracted my attention because there are some serious issues with it. It was worth a look, and I had the time. Even though I may disagree strongly with someone doesn't mean that I can't answer a question or engage in a conversation. Is the OP & friend going to give up their goal of becoming an abortion provider because of something I say -- no. Perhaps there is some opportunity for informal conversation & discussion, and there appeared to be some. Overall, it's not been a pretty sight because of the way this was presented and nature of the subject.

My agenda on this thread is simple informal conversation, even leisure. I'm not entirely opposed to abortion, as for example, when the mother's life is in danger, so I do believe there are legitimate reasons for an abortion. However, with respect to this thread, I have no agenda other than to enjoy myself, maybe help out a few people along the way, and make a few informal friends. If my information is helpful, great. If not, then there are thousands of other messages for people to read. I find it entertaining to read posts from Tired, Panda, DKM, ForbiddenComma, etc. This seems like a great place to have some fun, exchange, and critique ideas. I enjoy this forum in a way that you seem to be unable to do without attacking someone. Also, I think I'm getting a few bits of information about what is coming up in my experience. In a way, I don't expect to have this much free time in medical school and in my medical career, so I'm enjoying this while it lasts, so to speak.

The fact that you seem to totally miss is that the OP is a troll (whether they realize it or not) and that this thread will generate no information that you or anyone else can't get from a much better source. The little bit that was shared here is grossly outweighed by useless flames like your initial reply to me. The fact that the thread hasn't been closed (yet) suggests that people have been making an effort to keep the conversation civil. I would argue that your posts, particularly your early ones that were nothing more than personal attacks have not been very helpful in this regard. This isn't the first time you have done this. I've noticed this behavior on a couple of your messages to various people.

Just to make it clear, I was responding on the "faced with failure" thread with different intentions than on this one. It's not like I'm trying to categorically come down hard on *you*.

Of course just because you disagree strongly doesn't mean you can't provide an opinion. I'm just saying your opinion is almost worthless if it's still tantamount to a passive aggressive "go to hell, but here are several sources that say what you're trying to do is impossible, child killer". If you felt that the post was a troll, the flames would have been much less had you decided you were too biased (and or not knowledgeable enough) to respond. If you're "enjoying" yourself by responding, then you're the one feeding what you call a "troll" and stooping to the level of one.

Oh, and Tired, I was trying to be sarcastic with the whole "I'm looking forward to aborting babies"... come on, as if the whole "abortion workshop" thing didn't give it away. Suture clinic, except for abortions? Come on. I guess it's hard to convey that here. As for making up new accounts, I honestly do not have time for that.

Full disclosure (as in the typical JAMA articles): I don't think abortion should be used as a means of regular birth control, but physicians should know how to perform them to protect the health of the mother as necessary, and that physicians should exercise objective reasoning when deciding whether to perform one.

 

[gujuDoc]

I love it when medical students tell premeds about surgical procedures

That's probably because they've seen more surgical procedures then the average premed with the exception of maybe someone who's been a former OR nurse or surgical tech.

 

[Dr. McDreamy]

You already know what happened to the last thread on abortion (and probably threads before that). The only way you can say that talking matter-of-factly about abortion is "benign" is to deny the reality that you have seen multiple times. You know full well this is a sensitive subject and your desire to get information about residencies as an MS1 is a very poor cover story that lacks any credibility. Your true intentions have already come out: to "defend" your viewpoint in a public forum ... to have a debate about a controversial subject ... what a troll does. Just because you present your ideas with a smiley doesn't mean that everyone will just suddenly treat the subject like balancing a chemical equation. If anything your "cheers" and smileys probably make people angrier because you are being insensitive about a sensitive subject.

it occurs to me that OncoCaP was the first one in this thread to attack the OP's interest in abortion. I beleive he referred to it as the murder of children. The OP and nibrocli had valid questions and interests in the topic. Have you ever heard of projection, OncoCaP? You seem to be the troll derailing this thread.

 

[gujuDoc]

BTW, I won't label abortionists as child killers since there are some cases where I believe abortion to be valid.

That said, I don't think its going to be via peds residency that you will get abortion training. By common sense, I'd say its safe to assume that PEDS has to do with children who are already born while OB/GYN or GP/FP/IM will train you to do women's health procedures including abortion. Why would they want to train in abortion of children when their role has nothing to do with women's reproductive health and their goal is treatment of already alive and born children? 😕

How in the world, Peds training would qualify as a route to abortion training is beyond me considering that anything prior to the birth of the baby would be dealt with through an OB/GYN or GP/FP/IM physician (i.e. the pregnant woman's physician).
BTW: I'm only came across this thread cuz I was trying to figure out why tired got put on prob. status. So don't flame me for not being a med student yet.

 

[georgia_md]

That's probably because they've seen more surgical procedures then the average premed with the exception of maybe someone who's been a former OR nurse or surgical tech.

Thank you for that revelation Captain Obvious . Duh

 

[indo]

Maker's Mark is probably the best of the commonly available bourbons.

If you want pain, and I mean sheer pain, try Ancient Age. You'll vomit. I promise.

haha.

Yukon Jack says this on the bottle:
"Yukon Jack is a taste born of hoary nights, when lonely men struggled to keep their fires lit and cabins warm. Boldly flavorful, yet surprisingly smooth, there is no spirit like Yukon Jack."

Med school is FULL of hoary nights.

 

[Dookter]

haha.

Yukon Jack says this on the bottle:
"Yukon Jack is a taste born of hoary nights, when lonely men struggled to keep their fires lit and cabins warm. Boldly flavorful, yet surprisingly smooth, there is no spirit like Yukon Jack."

Med school is FULL of hoary nights.

OMG, Yukon Jack!!! I thought I was the only person [besides my friend who bought the bottle] that had ever tasted that stuff. I HATE that stuff. It is the only drink I have had where it gets worse with every sip!!!

 

[indo]

OMG, Yukon Jack!!! I thought I was the only person [besides my friend who bought the bottle] that had ever tasted that stuff. I HATE that stuff. It is the only drink I have had where it gets worse with every sip!!!

Yeah, it is really bad. You actually have to warm up with other liquors before you can put it anywhere near your mucous membranes.

We used it as a punishment during drinking games.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

it occurs to me that OncoCaP was the first one in this thread to attack the OP's interest in abortion. I beleive he referred to it as the murder of children. The OP and nibrocli had valid questions and interests in the topic. Have you ever heard of projection, OncoCaP? You seem to be the troll derailing this thread.

Amen.

 

[Gut Shot]

We used it as a punishment during drinking games.

Sounds lovely. Next time I'm at Spec's I'll look for a bottle. It would be a real feat if it's really worse than the Ancient Age. Last time we broke it out, I threw it up in the sink within 15 seconds. My roommate at the time, who has a stomach of iron, threw it up with hideous flair. We told the neighbor we'd pay if him if he could keep it down, and he literally regurgitated immediately after swallowing. Good thing we were outside.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

My understanding is that at most (if not all) schools its optional, there if you are interested, ok if you're not. I know that doctors aren't legally required to provide abortions, only to refer patients to someone who will if that is the patient's desire. I think it would be weird to force you to do something outside your own moral comfort zone.

It is not true that you have to refer- especially since referring is outside of many of our "comfort zones". The relevant laws:

Complete Text of the Hyde-Weldon Amendment
(1) None of the funds made available in this Act [the federal Health and Human Services appropriations bill for Fiscal Year 2005] may be made available to a Federal agency or program, or to a State or local government, if such agency, program, or government subjects any institutional or individual health care entity to discrimination on the basis that the health care entity does not provide, pay for, provide coverage of, or refer for abortions. (2) In this subsection, the term “health care entity” includes an individual physician or other health care professional, a hospital, a provider-sponsored organization, a health maintenance organization, a health insurance plan, or any other kind of health care facility, organization, or plan.


1995 Medical Training Nondiscrimination Act
`SEC. 245. (a) IN GENERAL- The Federal Government, and any State that receives Federal financial assistance, may not subject any health care entity to discrimination on the basis that--
`(1) the entity refuses to undergo training in the performance of induced abortions, to provide such training, to perform such abortions, or to provide referrals for such abortions;
`(2) the entity refuses to make arrangements for any of the activities specified in paragraph (1); or
`(3) the entity attends (or attended) a postgraduate physician training program, or any other program of training in the health professions, that does not (or did not) require, provide or arrange for training in the performance of induced abortions, or make arrangements for the provision of such training.
`(b) ACCREDITATION OF POSTGRADUATE PHYSICIAN TRAINING PROGRAMS-
`(1) IN GENERAL- With respect to the State government involved, or the Federal Government, restrictions under subsection (a) include the restriction that, in granting a legal status to a health care entity (including a license or certificate), or in providing to the entity financial assistance, a service, or another benefit, the government may not require that the entity be an accredited postgraduate physician training program, or that the entity have completed or be attending such a program, if the applicable standards for accreditation of the program include the standard that the program must require, provide or arrange for training in the performance of induced abortions, or make arrangements for the provision of such training.
`(2) RULE OF CONSTRUCTION- With respect to subclauses (I) and (II) of section 705(a)(2)(B)(i) (relating to a program of insured loans for training in the health professions), the requirements in such subclauses regarding accredited internship or residency programs are subject to paragraph (1) of this subsection.
`(c) DEFINITIONS- For purposes of this section:
`(1) The term `financial assistance', with respect to a government program, includes governmental payments provided as reimbursement for carrying out health-related activities.
`(2) The term `health care entity' includes an individual physician, a postgraduate physician training program, and a participant in a program of training in the health professions.
`(3) The term `postgraduate physician training program' includes a residency training program.'.

 

[kchan99]

There was a discussion over the invasiveness of an abortion earlier in this thread. Since I have never watched an abortion, I am wondering if anyone can comment on how the invasiveness of an abortion compares to impacted wisdom teeth extraction.

I have personally experienced impacted wisdom teeth extraction, but have not watched it (difficult to watch something inside my mouth while sedated). For my wisdom teeth extraction, I was sedated with diazepam and nitrous oxide. Lidocaine was used locally. The oral surgeon said that he made incisions in the soft tissue and used a bone drill to remove some bone and break the wisdom teeth. Please note that I am not a dental student.

Thank you. Please keep this discussion civil.

 

[olliemctuffy]

holy crap, gujudoc has over 11,000 posts! And still a pre-med!

 

[ExKitty Doctor]

BTW, I won't label abortionists as child killers since there are some cases where I believe abortion to be valid.

That said, I don't think its going to be via peds residency that you will get abortion training. By common sense, I'd say its safe to assume that PEDS has to do with children who are already born while OB/GYN or GP/FP/IM will train you to do women's health procedures including abortion. Why would they want to train in abortion of children when their role has nothing to do with women's reproductive health and their goal is treatment of already alive and born children? 😕

How in the world, Peds training would qualify as a route to abortion training is beyond me considering that anything prior to the birth of the baby would be dealt with through an OB/GYN or GP/FP/IM physician (i.e. the pregnant woman's physician).
BTW: I'm only came across this thread cuz I was trying to figure out why tired got put on prob. status. So don't flame me for not being a med student yet.

The relevance is that teenage girls, whose primary physicians are pediatricians, comprise a significant percentage of abortion patients.

 

[gujuDoc]

The relevance is that teenage girls, whose primary physicians are pediatricians, comprise a significant percentage of abortion patients.

Ok I guess that makes sense but even if they were a teenager, I'd think that they'd get a separate doctor for reproductive health. I know when I was a teenager I didn't go to my pediatrcian for that kind of stuff but to my mom's OB/GYN.

But I guess to each their own.

And in regards to number of posts, I think its really irrelevant to status seeing how there are other premeds with equally as many posts if not more: Msheaddoc and Nikki2002 come to mind. People don't post on these forums strictly for professional advice but also do chat with people (hence the creation of the LOUNGE forums on here or threads like the Random peripherally related to teh MCAT thread in the MCAT forum that has nothing to do with teh MCAT but rather serves as a miniature chat group). Many of my posts come from that or answering people's questions. Sorry I don't nomrally post in allo but I just guess the idea of a pediatrician performing abortion seemed strange to me. Again to each their own on that issue.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

holy crap, gujudoc has over 11,000 posts! And still a pre-med!

An overwhelming majority of them are highly helpful posts!! 👍 👍 🙂

 

[georgia_md]

An overwhelming majority of them are highly helpful posts!! 👍 👍 🙂

Yes, I agree!👍 👍 I nominate gujuDoc for SDN Moderator and/or Advisor! All those in favor, say aye!

 

[trustwomen]

Is there a "Future Abortion Provider" T-shirt?" If not, why not?

Good rule of thumb: Never work at a job which you would not proclaim on a T-shirt.

Yup, there sure is. http://ms4c.org/tshirt.htm

I wore one at the March for Women's Lives in 2004, and carried a sign that said "We Are Tomorrow's Abortion Providers". The reaction was incredible. People came up to me and thanked me, said how impressed they were with the MSFC crowd that was there, etc... (you can see a picture of a random student holding the sign in question on the NOW slideshow, the third picture from the bottom - http://www.now.org/history/slideshows/march2004/)

I felt like a fraud at the time, because I was still a premed. But then last spring McGill made an honest woman out of me... 🙂

I am not embarrassed or ashamed of my desire to help women by becoming an abortion provider.

 

[trustwomen]

There was a discussion over the invasiveness of an abortion earlier in this thread. Since I have never watched an abortion, I am wondering if anyone can comment on how the invasiveness of an abortion compares to impacted wisdom teeth extraction.

I have personally experienced impacted wisdom teeth extraction, but have not watched it (difficult to watch something inside my mouth while sedated). For my wisdom teeth extraction, I was sedated with diazepam and nitrous oxide. Lidocaine was used locally. The oral surgeon said that he made incisions in the soft tissue and used a bone drill to remove some bone and break the wisdom teeth. Please note that I am not a dental student.

Thank you. Please keep this discussion civil.

I've never seen a wisdom tooth extraction, so I can't really compare in that way. However, I've had both a wisdom tooth extraction and an abortion, and the pain level (and recovery) was comparable.

In an abortion, the cervix is dilated with metal dilators for a minute or two, and then a plastic vacurette (usually no thicker than a pencil) is inserted into the uterus. The uterus is suctioned for a minute or two, then sometimes a loop-shaped metal curette is passed over the walls of the uterus to ensure the completion of the procedure. The instruments are then removed, the speculum is removed, and you're done. The uterus and cervix are not incised in any way. That, to me, makes it less invasive - but "invasive" is sort of a subjective term, no? In my opinion, sedation is necessary - but I'm a big chicken who needed sedation for my wisdom tooth removal (and pap smears hurt me like hell). Many women do fine with local anesthesia.

And this discussion will not be, or remain, civil. This is SDN. The barbs and sarcasm and outrage are not far behind.

 

[VALSALVA]

You started this thread in Pediatrics?! And you're suprised that people flamed you out of there?

Good God, you are such a smug and self-righteous troll.

Jeez! I agree. Peds. was the wrong place to start this thread. Does anyone else see the problem with destroying a life that would otherwise be your patient the instant it exited the womb? "Do no harm" anyone???

Now, if you're an OB/GYN and the mother is the patient...then by all means...tear that blood sucking parasite out of the uterus.

 

[deleted109597]

Jeez! I agree. Peds. was the wrong place to start this thread. Does anyone else see the problem with destroying a life that would otherwise be your patient the instant it exited the womb? "Do no harm" anyone???

Now, if you're an OB/GYN and the mother is the patient...then by all means...tear that blood sucking parasite out of the uterus.

Seriously, all you people need to think. You are aware that Pediatrics deals with girls up until the age of 17 years, 364 days (and sometimes longer). Often, the only yearly checkups, including pelvic exams, are done in pediatrics, usually an adolescent branch. The OP probably wasn't implying that he/she wanted to do them on 36 year old women, but on 15 year old women. If you don't think they are wrong, why not have the training to do them? I don't think you would need prenatal training to perform medical abortions. Now, surgical abortions would necessitate an OB.

Remember, pediatrics people give scripts for Plan B, and still have to, since they won't allow people under 18 to get them OTC.

 

[trustwomen]

you quote my post, basically call me stupid, and proceed to repeat everything I had just said, only with a "positive spin". If the procedure is so quick and benign, why do you mention that fentanyl/versed is the typical cocktail you've seen given? And why did you even bring that up after I had just mentioned morphine/versed?

Based on your post, I apparently was supposed to interpret this as "the medical director of a local Planned Parenthood I heard about once"? You didn't take this as "the national medical director"?

I find it fascinating that you would decide to take issue with my posts. If I have been factually inaccurate, I encourage you to point it out. My posts have been appropriately referenced (unlike your "2/3 to 3/4" comment, which apparently we should take your word on). I have also not espoused any kind of political position. All I have done is provide information, which you have decided to mimic, and called one user a troll.

I didn't repeat what you said. You said that "procedures in the operating room continue to be very prevalent". I clarified that most abortions are done in abortion clinics. (Actually, I checked with AGI, the exact figure is 71% - sounds like "two-thirds to three-quarters" to me.) "Other clinics, including some group practices, perform most of the rest. Hospitals perform only 5% of abortions." http://www.guttmacher.org/presentations/abort_slides.pdf , see pg. 33

Quick and benign (which abortions certainly are) does not mean painless. Sedation is used for many minor surgeries these days. Besides, the cervix/uterus is actually a sensitive and painful area for many women, esp. those with friable cervices or a tendency to cramp. I mentioned the cocktail to confirm the validity of the information you had given, since you seem to only have witnessed abortions in hospitals (which are a small minority of abortions). Just because you need sedation doesn't mean the surgery is medically complex.

And yes, once nibrocli mentioned working at a Planned Parenthood as a medical assistant (which the head office does not hire and has no use for), I managed to figure out that they meant the medical director of the affiliate they worked for. I understand that those who don't know PP that well could have been confused. But even after the poster clarified and apologized for the confusion, you kept flaming them about this point and adding information that was not especially helpful or correct. They never said abortions aren't done in "the operating room" - just that most aren't done in hospitals, which is certainly true. (In fact, I'm disappointed that the hospital percentage is as low as it is). Clinic abortions are done in procedure rooms, which I guess you could call "operating rooms" too, though they certainly don't have or need all the bells and whistles that major surgeries require.

You had no business calling the poster a troll when they had better information than you did. And then trying to flame someone for being in DO school (and getting that wrong too)!? I just thought I would clarify and give some information too. I worked for five years in the abortion field. This is something I know pretty well.

 

[trustwomen]

I don't think you would need prenatal training to perform medical abortions. Now, surgical abortions would necessitate an OB.

Appreciate the support, but must clarify - you don't need to be an OB/GYN to perform surgical abortions. 1st trimester abortions are simple and quick procedures that almost any doctor can do with proper training. Second-trimester procedures are more complex, and require more training and more practice, but you still don't need to be an OB/GYN - just a doctor with decent surgical skills who is willing to be fully trained and then keep their skills up.

Thanks for "getting it" about the pediatrician thing - so few seem to! 🙂

 

[kelaskov]

I just stumbled upon this...

http://www.familyplanningfellowship.org/

 

[hilseb]

Jeez! I agree. Peds. was the wrong place to start this thread. Does anyone else see the problem with destroying a life that would otherwise be your patient the instant it exited the womb? "Do no harm" anyone???

Now, if you're an OB/GYN and the mother is the patient...then by all means...tear that blood sucking parasite out of the uterus.

I do not think "Do no harm" includes a pediatrician ignoring pregnancy in teenage clients. More than 1/2 of pregnancies in teenagers are unplanned, and a pediatrician may see a teenager who is hiding her pregnancy and be her first contact. How is your horrible judgmental attitude of calling abrotion "destroying a life" fulfilling the tenet of "Do no harm"? Would you force a 13 year old to carry a pregnancy to term and call that not doing harm?

Please. have this discussion on a thread about the ethics of abortion, not one where people who are interested in providing care are discussing the care.

 

[jdh71]

Would you force a 13 year old to carry a pregnancy to term and call that not doing harm?

What would be more dangerous about a 13 y/o carrying to term than a 23 y/o? Or were you refering what having a baby at 13 would do to her "social life"?

Kids are a drag - we should kill more of them . . .

 

[Tired]

Kids are a drag - we should kill more of them . . .

Heh heh. Would contribute a new angle to well-child checks.

"Yes ma'am, he has an ear infection. Shall we put him down for you?"

 

[jdh71]

Heh heh. Would contribute a new angle to well-child checks.

"Yes ma'am, he has an ear infection. Shall we put him down for you?"

Might be the best option considering how kids ruin the lives of women so we need to have them killed. In a socialized system, it would be the "treatment" of choice since putting a kid down is much more cost effective in the short and long term . . .

Ahhhh, the liberal panacea . . .

 

[njbmd]

Moving to Topics in Healthcare since this post has moved out of the educational realm and into the belief realm. You can post your personal opinions and beliefs there without editorials as to the intent of other posters. If you disagree, then disagree but be professional and cordial.

 

[erikalindsay]

In an abortion, the cervix is dilated with metal dilators for a minute or two, and then a plastic vacurette (usually no thicker than a pencil) is inserted into the uterus. The uterus is suctioned for a minute or two, then sometimes a loop-shaped metal curette is passed over the walls of the uterus to ensure the completion of the procedure. The instruments are then removed, the speculum is removed, and you're done. The uterus and cervix are not incised in any way. That, to me, makes it less invasive - but "invasive" is sort of a subjective term, no? In my opinion, sedation is necessary - but I'm a big chicken who needed sedation for my wisdom tooth removal (and pap smears hurt me like hell). Many women do fine with local anesthesia.

I just had local anesthesia for my abortion, no other sedation. It was less painful than wisdom tooth extraction (I got all 4 out at the same time, and I was put under for it), by a long shot. Of course this is just my experience. Not to mention the abortion took far less time (5 minutes, during which I was able to speak to the nurses and doctor, and told the doctor I'd like to have her job some day). I needed painkillers for 2 weeks after the wisdom tooth extraction, and only took 2 ibuprofen at the clinic after the abortion, as it was pushed on me by the nurse. I didn't need the ibuprofen, and was out and back to normal life within half an hour.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

Might be the best option considering how kids ruin the lives of women so we need to have them killed. In a socialized system, it would be the "treatment" of choice since putting a kid down is much more cost effective in the short and long term . . .

This is already happening in many countries around the world-- no joke. There was a guy who lived across from me in my dorm room whose close relative was involved in bringing "freedom of choice" to all those starving, suffering Africans. This guy was always very friendly to me, which I thought was weird given that he knew my views on abortion. But I figured that if he didn't have a problem with me, then I didn't have a problem with him. And so we became friends.

One night, we had a few beers and he got absolutely plastered. In his inebriated state he told me point blank that this relative of his knew perfectly well that he was not bringing "freedom of choice" to women. Rather he was bringing "unwitten requirement to kill your child so that we can control your population." After all, doing things like feeding the women, educating them, helping them to obtain positions in the local government, and setting up sound farming and economic structures would cost way too much $$$. Telling the women that their babies were their enemies and the killing them was the best thing to do was far more cost effective.

But don't kid yourself. This isn't a third world thing. It happens everyday right here in the US. For example, if I get knocked up, my University will be more than happy to foot the $360 for my abortion. How enlightened. Of course, it wouldn't even consider offering me kid-friendly housing, childcare, or health-care. Why should my Uni pay for such things, when there are so many other young women students who will be more than happy to kill their young for the chance to be where I am? So, sure, I would have a free choice. But, of course, the consequences of defying "The Matriarchy" by refusing to kill my first offspring would be severe.

As Alice Paul (original author of the ERA) once noted, "Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women."

 

[twohearted]

I'm interested in comments from those receiving or planning on pursuing abortion training. What inspires you to seek training and will your residency choice depend on elective abortion training provided by the residency? If your residency hasn't provided formal training, what are you doing to get trained? Any comments/feedback from students who have done MSFC internships or 4th year abortion/family planning electives appreciated. Thanks!!

Ever since I was a young child, I've dreamed of being able to provide abortions. In fact, its how I answer the question "why medicine?"

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

Ever since I was a young child, I've dreamed of being able to provide abortions. In fact, its how I answer the question "why medicine?"

Lol. 😀

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

... and was out and back to normal life within half an hour.

Sure you were. Completely normal.

 

[erikalindsay]

Sure you were. Completely normal.

I was. Not everyone thinks abortion is a big deal (I don't) or has emotional issues with it (I don't).

Nice sarcasm, though. Annoying.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

I was. Not everyone thinks abortion is a big deal (I don't) or has emotional issues with it (I don't).

Then why did you feel the need to tell a bunch of strangers your full name and your entire abortion story? And why you remember the details so clearly? And why do you even care if I don't believe you?

If I were wrong, then my sarcasm would seem odd and pointless, rather than annoying. If you are annoyed, then some nerve was touched inside you.

 

[erikalindsay]

I ran a (7000+ member) pro-choice teen parenting website for 3 years. I've been an advocate for women seeking abortions for longer. I remember the details because I've repeated my story many, many times to women who are nervous about their procedures. I've repeated my story many, many times to women who are considering abortion but have been brought up in homes that shun the idea so much that the shame their families put on the A word clouds their judgment enough to almost make them continue a pregnancy that they do not want.

I'm annoyed when people assume my feelings and thoughts are lies. Also, when people assume that a woman MUST have some type of negative thought about her abortion. The only negative thought or feeling I have about it is that it took time out of two of my days for the appointments.

I'm equally happy with my choice to abort as I was in continuing the pregnancy with my son.

And my full name? This is the username I use everywhere.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

I ran a (7000+ member) pro-choice teen parenting website for 3 years. I've been an advocate for women seeking abortions for longer. I remember the details because I've repeated my story many, many times to women who are nervous about their procedures. I've repeated my story many, many times to women who are considering abortion but have been brought up in homes that shun the idea so much that the shame their families put on the A word clouds their judgment enough to almost make them continue a pregnancy that they do not want.

I'm annoyed when people assume my feelings and thoughts are lies. Also, when people assume that a woman MUST have some type of negative thought about her abortion. The only negative thought or feeling I have about it is that it took time out of two of my days for the appointments.

I'm equally happy with my choice to abort as I was in continuing the pregnancy with my son.

And my full name? This is the username I use everywhere.

Well, it certainly sounds like you need to put an awful lot of effort into making sure people are OK with abortion. Odd, because paying someone to dismember and decapitate your offspring isn't that big of a deal in the first place.

 

[erikalindsay]

Having access to abortion is a big deal...having one is not a big deal.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

I decided to pursue this training because I want to do my part to help humanity.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

I decided to pursue this training because I want to do my part to help humanity.

👍

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

...having one is not a big deal.

Ah, but given the head and arms attached to you in your photo, I'm forced to assume that you've never had one at all, have you? You've had one done through you to your fetus, but never had one done to you. So how would you know whether it is a big deal?

Post again once you've had one done to you, and we'll talk.

 

[erikalindsay]

That is the probably the dumbest comment I have ever read on a forum. Way to go.

I couldn't care less about what a fetus does or does not feel, or what happens to it. A woman's wishes are of primary concern to me.

That is all I have to say, because clearly you are EDIT

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

That is the probably the dumbest comment I have ever read on a forum. Way to go.

I couldn't care less about what a fetus does or does not feel, or what happens to it. A woman's wishes are of primary concern to me.

That is all I have to say, because clearly you are an EDIT

Ah, the inevitable resort to ad hominem attacks. You are indeed the winner of this round!

As for caring about the fetus... sure you don't care what it does or how it feels. And that's why you've felt the need to dedicate so much of your spare time to make sure other women can feel good about killing theirs. Because when I asked you to consider, even for a moment, being subjected to the same process to which you subjected your fetus, you immediately lashed out at me.

Overcompensating much?

Truly, abortion doesn't just kill our young. It asks us to become the executioners to our own offspring. And, as I posted above, it is already being used by governments and institutions both here and abroad to exploit both women and their children by telling women that they're free to choose-- but if they choose anything other than abortion, they'll lose their jobs, education and/or enrichment opportunities. And each time Woman A gives in to the pressure and kills her young in order to conform, she makes it that much harder for Woman B to refuse to submit.

You've heard of fighting "The Man"... but now it's time to fight "The Woman."

 

[jdh71]

This is already happening in many countries around the world-- no joke. There was a guy who lived across from me in my dorm room whose close relative was involved in bringing "freedom of choice" to all those starving, suffering Africans. This guy was always very friendly to me, which I thought was weird given that he knew my views on abortion. But I figured that if he didn't have a problem with me, then I didn't have a problem with him. And so we became friends.

One night, we had a few beers and he got absolutely plastered. In his inebriated state he told me point blank that this relative of his knew perfectly well that he was not bringing "freedom of choice" to women. Rather he was bringing "unwitten requirement to kill your child so that we can control your population." After all, doing things like feeding the women, educating them, helping them to obtain positions in the local government, and setting up sound farming and economic structures would cost way too much $$$. Telling the women that their babies were their enemies and the killing them was the best thing to do was far more cost effective.

The truth is out there and I'm glad to have you add this story.

But don't kid yourself. This isn't a third world thing. It happens everyday right here in the US. For example, if I get knocked up, my University will be more than happy to foot the $360 for my abortion. How enlightened. Of course, it wouldn't even consider offering me kid-friendly housing, childcare, or health-care. Why should my Uni pay for such things, when there are so many other young women students who will be more than happy to kill their young for the chance to be where I am?

Amazing isn't it. No incentive for responsibilty. The pro-choicers love to separate the choice to abort from the choice to have sex. If you're a big enough girl to spread them legs, you should be a big enough girl to take responsibility for that particular action.

So, sure, I would have a free choice. But, of course, the consequences of defying "The Matriarchy" by refusing to kill my first offspring would be severe.

As Alice Paul (original author of the ERA) once noted, "Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women."

If I wasn't married, I think I'd propose 😉 . Dont find many real ladies like yourself anymore. Rare breed.

 

[Wanna_B_Scutty]

The truth is out there and I'm glad to have you add this story.



Amazing isn't it. No incentive for responsibilty. The pro-choicers love to separate the choice to abort from the choice to have sex. If you're a big enough girl to spread them legs, you should be a big enough girl to take responsibility for that particular action.



If I wasn't married, I think I'd propose 😉 . Dont find many real ladies like yourself anymore. Rare breed.

Aw, thank you jdh! 😍

Although, regarding the leg-spreading, that cuts both ways. A man who is old enough to get a young lady pregnant is old enough to care for her and for their child financially, physically and emotionally to the best of his ability during the pregnancy and afterward, unless she is truly prepared to absolve him of these responsibilities due to her own abundance of resources. Should the young man be particularly lacking in any of these departments, it is his responsiblity to find his partner those resources through other means such as charities and WIC programs-- and perhaps to help her contact reputable adoption agencies.

This, of course, is another reason why abortion is so popular-- men don't want to "man up." Did you know that Playboy donates millions to NARAL? Think on that-- and trust me that they ain't doing it because they're so dedicated to empowering women everywhere. 🙄

P.S. Sorry you're married... I guess it won't work out between us! But if you have any cute friends, please feel free to send them my way. 😉

 

[jdh71]

Although, regarding the leg-spreading, that cuts both ways. A man who is old enough to get a young lady pregnant is old enough to care for her and her child financially, physically and emotionally to the best of his ability during the pregnancy and afterward. Should the young man be particularly lacking in any of these departments, it is his responsiblity to find his partner those resources through other means such as charities and WIC programs-- and perhaps to contact reputable adoption agencies after obtaining the young lady's consent. This, of course, is another reason why abortion is so popular-- men don't want to "man up."

I cannot disagree, and you are preaching to the choir. One caveat though, and an unfair reality, the woman is going to be the one to have the child with or without the man, so that makes the responsibility of the decision to have sex that much more grave for the woman. Who's left holding?

Did you know that Playboy donates millions to NARAL? Think on that-- and trust me that they ain't doing it because they're so dedicated to empowering women everywhere. 🙄

I did not know that about playboy, but it does not surprise me. The magazine serves up unhealthy social consequences in the form of the objectification of women and unrealistic expectation about women both physically and sexually.

P.S. Sorry you're married... I guess it won't work out! But if you have any cute friends, please feel free to send them my way. 😉

So am I . . . so am I If I run into an friends who'd like a relationship with a real woman, I'll let you know.