Future planning UK IMG (MS2)

[IMG69]

Hi there,

So i'm extremely interested in Spine and I was originally interested in going via the Ortho route but since getting on the wards and in theatre all the ortho consultants are telling me NSGY is the way to go; so here I am. Luckily my program gives me the opportunity to spend my two final years in the US training there directly so a lot of our graduates have said they've been considered as US trained by whichever program they've applied to and matched at (I take this with a grain of salt).

So I want to end up in NSGY eventually and my primary goal is to match directly into the US (I know this is extremely unlikely) so my first question is should I go for Neurology or Gen surg as a backup (also was thinking vascular). If I can't get NSGY in the US then i'll eventually move back home after completing whatever residency I go for and then work my way to NSGY that way; so which residency would put me in the best position for NSGY? Neurology or a surgical residency, i'm assuming neurology.

Currently my estimated step 1 is 240~ (NBMEs, Uworld conversions etc) and i'm still over a year out from sitting it. I've got 3 publications (Neurology) likely to have say 10~ by the time I graduate. I've made a list of all the NSGY programs that have at least 1 IMG.

I'm well aware that almost everyone does a research year if not multiple and i'm strongly considering this but realistically whats my best and fastest route to NSGY, i'm not aware of the other "pre residency" options other than research positions at said hospital hoping for a spot down the line?

I haven't been to any conferences yet as my priority is step 1 and haven't really networked yet which i'll do once I get to the US but here's another question, How would LORs from 20+ year Neurosurgeons (Germany, Oxford etc) who own hospitals now etc look for my residency application? Or should I stick to US only LORs?

TLDR: Gen/vascular surgery or Neurology as a backup residency? How many research years/what options are there post grad to increase my chances of NSGY? LORs from other countries consultants useful or stick to US only?

Just looking for a bit of guidance.

Thanks.

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[mmmcdowe]

One to two research years would be a good idea. Ideally at a program you want to match. One LOR from a neurosurgeon elsewhere would be fine but most of them should be US based.

Your backup is your choice. The advantage of neurology would be the ability to do an endovascular fellowship however.

 

[IMG69]

One to two research years would be a good idea. Ideally at a program you want to match. One LOR from a neurosurgeon elsewhere would be fine but most of them should be US based.

Your backup is your choice. The advantage of neurology would be the ability to do an endovascular fellowship however.

Thanks a lot, I had no idea about the endovascular fellowships, i'll definitely look into them. In regards to the research years, are these 'mandatory' I really don't like research haha; what kind of step score would I need to pull off to exclude myself from doing this?

Any suggestions on things I may be overlooking? My goals are quite simple, score extremely high and find a Neurosurgeon (once in the US) and get him on my side basically.

Thanks again.

 

[Medstart108]

Thanks a lot, I had no idea about the endovascular fellowships, i'll definitely look into them. In regards to the research years, are these 'mandatory' I really don't like research haha; what kind of step score would I need to pull off to exclude myself from doing this?

Any suggestions on things I may be overlooking? My goals are quite simple, score extremely high and find a Neurosurgeon (once in the US) and get him on my side basically.

Thanks again.

Not in neurosurgery but kinda know where you are coming from, long story but i've studied in the UK before. I have a good idea of which school you are at in fact.

What I would say is you should definitely do research, whether you like it or not doesn't really matter at your stage (you may even grow to like it), research is a great way to network and buff up your resume. Research in neurosurgery is obviously pretty important.

I agree you definitely want to keep LORs to 1 or less. You will want most of your LORs from US surgeons who can comment on your clinical capabilities. If you can get an LOR from someone who is very reputable in the UK to the point that american surgeons have heard of them, it is probably worth including.

I think if you really want to maximize your chances in the US, I would take a year or two out to do research with a US neurosurgeon. The best way is if you do research with a UK one and they can connect you, or if you meet neurosurgeons or network with them through conferences or during your 2 years in the US.

Ask for advice for people who've made the jump (i'm not one of them unfortunately), but generally speaking high step scores are a must, theres no step score that obviates the need for you to do research. A Step 1 over 250 is already maximum points, it doesn't really matter much after that, you tick the box and they are looking for other things that make you stand out.

If you see yourself as very interested in the brain and spine then Neurology with an endovascular fellowship is an option. If you see yourself as more surgical then consider general surgery. Obviously ortho is going to be too competitive to back up with and vascular is different but explore and see if you like it. I'd probably recommend general surgery though as it is easier to get into.

 

[IMG69]

Not in neurosurgery but kinda know where you are coming from, long story but i've studied in the UK before. I have a good idea of which school you are at in fact.

What I would say is you should definitely do research, whether you like it or not doesn't really matter at your stage (you may even grow to like it), research is a great way to network and buff up your resume. Research in neurosurgery is obviously pretty important.

I agree you definitely want to keep LORs to 1 or less. You will want most of your LORs from US surgeons who can comment on your clinical capabilities. If you can get an LOR from someone who is very reputable in the UK to the point that american surgeons have heard of them, it is probably worth including.

I think if you really want to maximize your chances in the US, I would take a year or two out to do research with a US neurosurgeon. The best way is if you do research with a UK one and they can connect you, or if you meet neurosurgeons or network with them through conferences or during your 2 years in the US.

Ask for advice for people who've made the jump (i'm not one of them unfortunately), but generally speaking high step scores are a must, theres no step score that obviates the need for you to do research. A Step 1 over 250 is already maximum points, it doesn't really matter much after that, you tick the box and they are looking for other things that make you stand out.

If you see yourself as very interested in the brain and spine then Neurology with an endovascular fellowship is an option. If you see yourself as more surgical then consider general surgery. Obviously ortho is going to be too competitive to back up with and vascular is different but explore and see if you like it. I'd probably recommend general surgery though as it is easier to get into.

Thanks a lot for this, basically my dilemma is with putting all this effort into NSGY in the US (research years required etc) and then not matching. I'm 100% going to apply for Gen surg as a backup; I just simply love theatre and being in there all day. Considering that i'll have to do research years, i'll assume at least two then I almost wonder if doing Gen surgery then going back home and getting into NSGY that way is faster in the grand scheme of things.

Or even just working through the UK route is an option as well; skip the US altogether.

Hmm decisions.... I'll wait for my Step 1 score before I actually implement anything.

Thanks a lot.

 

[libertyyne]

Thanks a lot for this, basically my dilemma is with putting all this effort into NSGY in the US (research years required etc) and then not matching. I'm 100% going to apply for Gen surg as a backup; I just simply love theatre and being in there all day. Considering that i'll have to do research years, i'll assume at least two then I almost wonder if doing Gen surgery then going back home and getting into NSGY that way is faster in the grand scheme of things.

Or even just working through the UK route is an option as well; skip the US altogether.

Hmm decisions.... I'll wait for my Step 1 score before I actually implement anything.

Thanks a lot.

I don't know what home is, but there is no pathway to neurosurgery from gensurgery.

 

[IMG69]

I don't know what home is, but there is no pathway to neurosurgery from gensurgery.

It's not exactly like GS -> NSGY but it means i'll be able to easily jump into the GS programs back home and focus on obtaining my NSGY experience so I can then apply to 'train' in NSGY officially. Public health system so basically you do everything and earn enough credits in one area of interest to specialize there; put in a simplified form.