Future Residents: Avoid Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson RWJ Anesthesia Program

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propofolx

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Avoid RWJ, program is currently on probation, program has changed four PDs in the last 5 years. A lot of turmoil in the department, with limited didactics and very poor resident satisfaction.

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RWJ is going to be taken over by the NJMS residency program. It will become one big program in the near future. For the record I did not do residency at RWJ :)
 
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I'm a current resident at RWJ. Yes, the program is on probation and there have been some changes in PDs over the past couple of years (for the better). However, the turmoil is on the attending side of things: primarily due to manpower. Several attendings (mostly older ones who have been around for decades) have left and has created some stress on the remaining attendings who have to work harder, sometimes harder than residents. Honestly, many of the ones who left are the ones who teach the least, so some of us are glad they left. The dept is working to hire people as fast as possible to mitigate the situation. Many of the new hires who have recently come on are VERY involved in educational activities.

As for the resident side of things, yes, didactics can be improved, and it already has in the past several months. If you love sitting in lecture and are looking for a program with 6h of lectures every week, this isn't the program for you. Our strength is clinical training. Clinical training is far superior than many other programs out there, and that has not changed in the past several years. If anything, it's improved since the opening of the new childrens hospital and the overall increased volume. There are residents who graduate here who are comfortable enough to do their own cardiac cases without fellowship. Resident duty hours has not changed and isn't a problem at all. Working >70h is extremely rare. Resident satisfaction is definitely not poor. We get pre-call and post-call days where we have time to do what we want during the day. CA3 year is very cush so they have time to study for boards. They don't work weekends during the 2nd half of CA3 year. If any resident is unsatisfied with that, there's something wrong with them. This is NOT a malignant program and the PD meets with us monthly to discuss our needs and concerns and actually listens to us. Every CA3 who applied has matched into their top fellowship spot, ranging from pain to critical care. With an exception of a couple of bad eggs, everyone passes their boards.

And no. RWJ will NOT be taken over by NJMS. Not now, not anytime soon. These rumors are completely false. And the program/dept will NOT shut down. The anesthesia department makes the most money out of any other dept in the medical school. RWJ leadership will do everything in their power to prevent our program/dept from going under.

I don't know who the OP is, but it's clear that he/she has some personal grudge against RWJ, especially if he/she has to make a throwaway account to post this.
 
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I'm a current resident at RWJ. Yes, the program is on probation and there have been some changes in PDs over the past couple of years (for the better). However, the turmoil is on the attending side of things: primarily due to manpower. Several attendings (mostly older ones who have been around for decades) have left and has created some stress on the remaining attendings who have to work harder, sometimes harder than residents. Honestly, many of the ones who left are the ones who teach the least, so some of us are glad they left. The dept is working to hire people as fast as possible to mitigate the situation. Many of the new hires who have recently come on are VERY involved in educational activities.

As for the resident side of things, yes, didactics can be improved, and it already has in the past several months. If you love sitting in lecture and are looking for a program with 6h of lectures every week, this isn't the program for you. Our strength is clinical training. Clinical training is far superior than many other programs out there, and that has not changed in the past several years. If anything, it's improved since the opening of the new childrens hospital and the overall increased volume. There are residents who graduate here who are comfortable enough to do their own cardiac cases without fellowship. Resident duty hours has not changed and isn't a problem at all. Working >70h is extremely rare. Resident satisfaction is definitely not poor. We get pre-call and post-call days where we have time to do what we want during the day. CA3 year is very cush so they have time to study for boards. They don't work weekends during the 2nd half of CA3 year. If any resident is unsatisfied with that, there's something wrong with them. This is NOT a malignant program and the PD meets with us monthly to discuss our needs and concerns and actually listens to us. Every CA3 who applied has matched into their top fellowship spot, ranging from pain to critical care. With an exception of a couple of bad eggs, everyone passes their boards.

And no. RWJ will NOT be taken over by NJMS. Not now, not anytime soon. These rumors are completely false. And the program/dept will NOT shut down. The anesthesia department makes the most money out of any other dept in the medical school. RWJ leadership will do everything in their power to prevent our program/dept from going under.

I don't know who the OP is, but it's clear that he/she has some personal grudge against RWJ, especially if he/she has to make a throwaway account to post this.
I think you are the BS ARTIST, not the Original poster. Usually when a post pops up like that there is high truth to the post. That is historic. ALA northwest anesthesia, RUSh et al
 
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While you make some valid points, the fact of the matter is if you could go back you will not rank this program high.

My personal grudge wasn't considered by ACGME when the program was put on probation.

Answer some basic questions,

Why is the program on probation?

How strong is regional experience?

What is the board passing rate in the past 5 years?

With that amazing cardiac experience, how many general only grads are doing Cardiac in their current practice from the past decade?

My advice was for current medical students, RWJ as it stands today will be at the bottom of any rank list.
Would you recommend this program to your family members as it stands?

Dunno, maybe you're a co-resident of mine, maybe not. I doubt you are though, given how negative and broad your aspersions are. You do a major disservice to prospective applicants by warning them to "avoid" the program. Anyone interested in finding out the honest truth regarding the program should feel free to PM me, or my co-resident above (who's identity I don't know).

So far, I have had a largely positive time at RWJ. The patients are SICK, the training is SUPERB, the camaraderie among residents and attendings is very strong, the hours really aren't bad (the schedule is designed to make it IMPOSSIBLE to go over 80, or even 70), hell, even New Brunswick can be fun if you know where the hot spots are.

The program is on probation because for a brief moment, there was a circumstance that prompted a question on the survey to be answered in a way that raised a red-flag which prompted a site visit which revealed long-standing and deep-seeded issues with our PAT's and didactics. The current PD (who everyone is on a first name basis with)has concrete fixes to both of these things.

It's true most residents don't do a single regional block til their rotation in their CA-3 year. During which they usually double the required amount. Residents feel very comfortable lining up and doing cardiac cases and placing epi's alone by the beginning of their CA-2 year, so it's a trade-off. I will not complain when I am leaving at 3PM sharp every day during my regional rotation as a CA3.

The board pass rate last year was 80%, the year before that it was higher and the year before that it was 100%, as was the year before that.

So I hope I answered some of your 'basic' questions. If you, or anyone else, wants to know more, feel free to send me a PM.

edit: oh sorry, forgot to answer one of your questions. One of the graduates from one class ago is doing almost exclusively cardiac up in upstate NY somewhere, another does some cardiac in central NJ. I'm not sure about the past decade, as I don't know or care to keep in contact with everyone. But those are at least 2 'generalists' from the past year.
 
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I am not here to create problems but if you want to do residency in NJ pm me and I can give you a rundown of the programs.
 
Future residents: avoid anesthesiology as a speciality.
 
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It's true, sometimes we find ourselves working until 7-8 on really busy days or if there are a lot of emergency classed cases. I guess this is a drawback of working at a level 1 trauma center...probably happens to me 1/10 non-call days. Around mid-day you can usually predict that this will happen. But let me explain the call schedule so that maybe you can understand why its not that bad.
There are 4 call spots. 1st and 2nd are overnight. 3rd and 4th are late.
Residents are sent home as rooms begin to close. The order of going home is: post3,4; pre1,2,3,4; crack; everyone else; 4th, 3rd. Pre call people are usually out by 330 the latest. As post3 Ive gone home as early as 930 and 1300 pre.
Anyone who stays past 6 is moved into the crack the following day.
The call schedule has everyone on it ca1,2,3. Fair.
Meal cards are loaded on the first of the month with $20 for every call+every time you are last on the list for that month. I usually get around 100-140/month and Im usually out by the third week.
I love carrying my meds in a pack. Its easy and fast. Unfortunately, we are getting pyxis machines in every room by the end of the year. I guess its time to conform....
Oh and crammed???? We have big and small OR's. You're gonna be an anesthesiologist. The amount of space you're afforded is going to be nearly identical regardless of OR size and institution.
 
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If you love sitting in lecture and are looking for a program with 6h of lectures every week, this isn't the program for you. Our strength is clinical training

I have zero horse in this race, but I've never heard this sentiment spoken by someone who wasn't trying to justify terrible didactics. Clinical training is vital, of course. But what you need to know for boards and independent practice (in any specialty) can't be achieved by solely focusing on the patients you see, even at the highest volume places.
 
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I have zero horse in this race, but I've never heard this sentiment spoken by someone who wasn't trying to justify terrible didactics. Clinical training is vital, of course. But what you need to know for boards and independent practice (in any specialty) can't be achieved by solely focusing on the patients you see, even at the highest volume places.
I agree, except that a good number of hours are wasted for useless didactics in many residency and fellowship programs, because of regulatory BS. This is adult education, not high school, hence the focus should be on self-study. I'd rather get out earlier, and go home and read on my own.

Anesthesia teaching should mostly happen in the OR, one on one, not in the classroom. Very few places do that well, consistently. Second best is interactive simulation/clinical scenarios, even on a paper in a conference room. Presentations are mostly useless, except for people too lazy to read on their own. Occasionally, a good grand rounds or lecture can also be helpful. A good presentation should contain a lot of information that would require a lot of effort to find on one's own.

Also, what matters a lot is who's doing the teaching. Are they passionate about the subject at hand, giving the same talk, getting better at it every year? Or just some body (sic!) who was tasked to do it, to fulfill some job requirements? Do they teach it at no ***** left behind level, or is it intellectually stimulating? Etc.
 
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I have zero horse in this race, but I've never heard this sentiment spoken by someone who wasn't trying to justify terrible didactics. Clinical training is vital, of course. But what you need to know for boards and independent practice (in any specialty) can't be achieved by solely focusing on the patients you see, even at the highest volume places.
Not true. I think didactics are BUll SHI T. Has little place in residency training. You are there to take care of patients clinically and then read about them.. Rinse and repeat x 3 years. The more patients you take care of the better. I had a terrible didactic program. Virtually non existent. I was resentful then, but now I am thankful because they worked me to the bone which makes me the clinician I am today. You are wrong sir.

Do you think surgeons complain about working late hours operating on patients? Nope. They are grateful for the opportunity.

Remember the more patients you take care of start to finish during residency the better off and better clinician you will be. The lectures will not give you the confidence you need in the O.R.
 
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Not true. I think didactics are BUll SHI T. Has little place in residency training. You are there to take care of patients clinically and then read about them.. Rinse and repeat x 3 years. The more patients you take care of the better. I had a terrible didactic program. Virtually non existent. I was resentful then, but now I am thankful because they worked me to the bone which makes me the clinician I am today. You are wrong sir.

Do you think surgeons complain about working late hours operating on patients? Nope. They are grateful for the opportunity.

Remember the more patients you take care of start to finish during residency the better off and better clinician you will be. The lectures will not give you the confidence you need in the O.R.

1) I'm a ma'am not a sir.

2) I am done with my training and am faculty, so I don't need you to tell me what kind of clinician my residency will make me.

3) I trained at one of the highest-volume programs in the country for my specialty, and there were still some disease processes I did not see or take care of directly. At the lower-volume program I work for now, that list is even longer. A good didactics program can fill in those gaps.

I stand by my statement.
 
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Not true. I think didactics are BUll SHI T. Has little place in residency training.
I have mixed feelings on this. I'm the education coordinator at a residency program so it's something I think about a lot.

I didn't find that didactics were useful to me at all as a resident, in terms of preparing for my written and oral boards. My program didn't have morning report / daily AM didactics before cases started, and I was glad of it. Then again, I've never really been a lecture learner.

I do think some people learn and benefit from lectures. Obviously the quality of the lecture and the lecturer are key.

IMO grand rounds lectures are of approximately zero value when it comes to board prep, but that doesn't mean they're of zero value. They make us better doctors, they help us think critically, they help us keep current, they're occasionally a source of clinical pearls.

I think 95% of board prep has to be an individual effort. I try to emphasize this to residents, in a manner and tone that doesn't imply total abdication of the program's responsibility to teach. ;) My basic feeling is that the 1:1 clinical time with an attending is the bulk of the program's real opportunity to teach.

We have weekly lectures based on book chapters. I think we still do it mostly out of inertia. I don't think they're very useful to the residents. I don't think the residents think they're useful either, on the whole. We start off the CA-1 class with about 6 weeks of daily lectures, one Baby Miller chapter at a time. I think this has some value beyond motivating the residents to read the thing cover to cover in a short period, early on.

I'd kind of like to get rid of the lectures completely, except for the CA-1 Baby Miller series.

We do an hour of board review each week. 2 attendings and the residents before cases start, attendance optional. Mostly focused topic review for boards, followed by old board questions done as a group. The residents generally tell us that this is one of the more useful things we do, and they keep showing up, even though it's optional.

We do formal mock orals twice per year. We just did a round last week. I think these are useful.


Anesthesia teaching should mostly happen in the OR, one on one, not in the classroom. Very few places do that well, consistently.

True. It's hard. I'd like to be better at it. Attendings are doctors, not teachers. I've got 12 years of post-secondary education to be a scientist, doctor, and anesthesiologist, and I've got less than 12 hours of actual instruction on how to be a teacher.

The basic problem is I don't know what the hell I'm doing when it comes to teaching and curriculum design, except sort of extrapolating from what I liked as a resident and what worked for me as a resident. And I'm the guy in charge of didactics.


Second best is interactive simulation/clinical scenarios, even on a paper in a conference room.

I agree with this also. We have an awesome simulation center at our hospital. Just in the last few months we've started to get a few staff (me included) trained on how to use the equipment.

I'm hoping to get good sim training going to the point that it replaces the weekly lectures. We need to train for rare events in anesthesia, and simulation can fill that hole.


Presentations are mostly useless (except for clinical pearls), except for people too lazy to read on their own. Occasionally, a good grand rounds or lecture can also be helpful, but that's more the exception than the norm. A good presentation should contain a lot of information that would require a lot of effort to find on one's own.

Also, what matters a lot is who's doing the teaching. Are they passionate about the subject at hand, giving the same talk, getting better at it every year? Or just some body (sic!) who was tasked to do it, to fulfill some job requirements? Do they teach it at no ***** left behind level, or is it intellectually stimulating? Etc.

All true.
 
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I love self-study, but what I love even more is good doctors sharing their clinical pearls, their personal experience, their shortcuts and techniques. The latter is what makes a residency or fellowship better than others.

That's why I love Paul Marik's critical care books, for example. I don't need somebody to recite Uptodate for me, I want them to tell me about their own experience, even (or especially) if it contradicts the mainstream view. If they don't have enough experience to talk freely about a subject, they shouldn't be teaching it. That's why the best teachers can do it just with pen and paper anywhere; no need for fancy Powerpoint.

Most academic programs make lecturers out of their resume padders, the fancy-shmancy brown-nosers who write their papers while supposedly directing cases and teaching. Because that's what matters in academia, the amount of research crap one has unleashed on one's peers. Instead, they should use the clinical guys, the ones who also work solo, the ones with hundreds of hours of hands-on experience in the respective subject. Those are the ones I have learned the most from, the kind of people who could run circles around their academic peers in a clinical setting. I learned more from the clinical guys in my first year as an attending than from most of my academic teachers.

The problem with American graduate programs is that they are too research-centered, because they can afford the luxury to. In some parts of the world, if you don't teach well, nobody will waste 5-7 years slaving away for you. Teaching should be the number one mission of every academic program, because they make tens of thousands of dollars on the back of every trainee every year. A good program should have a good number of clinical guys, who couldn't give a crap about their resume, and a good number of emeritus level people, who are beyond giving a crap about it, but who are still passionate about their job and teaching. IMO, these are the guys with the pearls, who will teach the stuff one cannot read in a book; not the famous textbook writers, ASA meeting speakers or board examiners, no offense.

Btw, I went to the ASA meeting hoping to have my socks knocked off. I am still a fellow, so I am still growing (and will be, for the next 30 years). Except for 1-2 talks, it was an utter waste of my time and money. I heard stuff that I had read online months before in a much better digested form, with less fluff and more practical applications than the Powerpoint presentations by junior faculty at the ASA. These people and their academia are still living in the last century; they should look at stuff like FOAMEd or SMACC to see how real teaching in the 21st looks. Here are two great examples, from the world of emergency medicine (and from a great TEACHER, may he rest in peace):





Another example. Many lectures from the University of Maryland CC project, for their fellows, are excellent. Just look at these two:





Thank God, critical care has some great doctors blogging and podcasting, both in the US and abroad, so I am spoiled with stuff like this every day. The day is not long enough to read and listen to quality materials, so all I want from my fellowship is to give me the time to be able to do so, when not learning from patient care and when not being taught useful clinical pearls or practical skills by good teachers.

In a good program, every of the 80 hours/week of training should be well accounted for.
 
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1) I'm a ma'am not a sir.

2) I am done with my training and am faculty, so I don't need you to tell me what kind of clinician my residency will make me.

3) I trained at one of the highest-volume programs in the country for my specialty, and there were still some disease processes I did not see or take care of directly. At the lower-volume program I work for now, that list is even longer. A good didactics program can fill in those gaps.

I stand by my statement.
You are still wrong in my opinion. Sitting passively listening to the faculty du jour read the chapter to you is USELESS and always will be. Doing cases (lots of em) and reading about them after is where it's at. And of course engagement with your faculty.

I hated lectures in medical school and i hate em now. Except for the audio digest all star lecture/discussion.
 
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You are still wrong in my opinion. Sitting passively listening to the faculty du jour read the chapter to you is USELESS and always will be. Doing cases (lots of em) and reading about them after is where it's at. And of course engagement with your faculty.

I hated lectures in medical school and i hate em now. Except for the audio digest all star lecture/discussion.

Agree to disagree then. I'm sorry your experience with lectures was having a chapter read to you. Good thing you trained at a place where you saw literally every pathology that exists.
 
I love self-study, but what I love even more is good doctors sharing their clinical pearls, their personal experience, their shortcuts and techniques. The latter is what makes a residency or fellowship better than others.

That's why I love Paul Marik's critical care books, for example. I don't need somebody to recite Uptodate for me, I want them to tell me about their own experience, even (or especially) if it contradicts the mainstream view. If they don't have enough experience to talk freely about a subject, they shouldn't be teaching it. That's why the best teachers can do it just with pen and paper anywhere; no need for fancy Powerpoint.

Most academic programs make lecturers out of their resume padders, the fancy-shmancy brown-nosers who write their papers while supposedly directing cases and teaching. Because that's what matters in academia, the amount of research crap one has unleashed on one's peers. Instead, they should use the clinical guys, the ones who also work solo, the ones with hundreds of hours of hands-on experience in the respective subject. Those are the ones I have learnt the most from, the kind of people who could run circles around their academic peers in a clinical setting. I learnt more from the clinical guys in my first year as an attending than from most of my academic teachers.

The problem with American graduate programs is that they are too research-centered, because they can afford the luxury to. In some parts of the world, if you don't teach well, nobody will waste 5-7 years slaving away for you. Teaching should be the number one mission of every academic program, because they make tens of thousands of dollars on the back of every trainee every year. A good program should have a good number of clinical guys, who couldn't give a crap about their resume, and a good number of emeritus level people, who are beyond giving a crap about it, but who are still passionate about their job and teaching. IMO, these are the guys with the pearls, who will teach one stuff one cannot read in a book, not the famous textbook writers, ASA meeting speakers or board examiners, no offense.

Btw, I went to the ASA meeting hoping to have my socks knocked off. I am still a fellow, so I am still growing (and will be, for the next 30 years). Except for 1-2 talks, it was an utter waste of my time and money. I heard stuff that I had read online months before in a much better digested form, with less fluff and more practical applications than the Powerpoint presentations by junior faculty at the ASA. These people and their academia are still living in the last century; they should look at stuff like FOAMEd or SMACC to see how real teaching in the 21st looks. Here are two great examples, from the world of emergency medicine (and from a great TEACHER, may he rest in peace):





Another example. Many things from the University of Maryland CC project will be excellent (their fellowship program too, most likely), just look at these two:





Thank God, critical care has some great doctors blogging and podcasting, both in the US and abroad, so I am spoiled with stuff like this every day. The day is not long enough to read and listen to quality materials, so all I want from my fellowship is to give me the time to be able to do so, when not learning from patient care and when not being taught useful clinical pearls or practical skills by good teachers.

In a good program, every of the 80 hours/week of training should be well accounted for.

Great post @FFP!

By the way, I don't know how they're viewed in the world at large, but at least within Australia there are some great intensivists (e.g. Cliff Reid at resus.me).

Also intensive care or CC med has its own college in Australia/New Zealand (same college), and so people can straight in after internship year (I think). I sometimes wish the US had something comparable. Then again there are many ways to skin a cat. :)
 
Australia/NZ, Ireland, UK, US are all well-represented in the FOAM group. Impressive people and blogs. I read mostly EM and CCM blogs. My favorite one (tough choice) is Australia/NZ-based. I wish we had something similar in anesthesia.

If you want to know how we practiced medicine 5 years ago, read a textbook.
If you want to know how we practiced medicine 2 years ago, read a journal.
If you want to know how we practice medicine now, go to a (good) conference.
If you want to know how we will practice medicine in the future, listen in the hallways and use FOAM."

— from International EM Education Efforts & E-Learning by Joe Lex 2012
 
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You are still wrong in my opinion. Sitting passively listening to the faculty du jour read the chapter to you is USELESS and always will be. Doing cases (lots of em) and reading about them after is where it's at. And of course engagement with your faculty.

I hated lectures in medical school and i hate em now. Except for the audio digest all star lecture/discussion.

Agree to disagree then. I'm sorry your experience with lectures was having a chapter read to you. Good thing you trained at a place where you saw literally every pathology that exists.

Both of you read this: http://blc.uc.iupui.edu/Academic-Enrichment/Study-Skills/Learning-Styles/3-Learning-Styles

Simplified, dumbed down version of a whole body of literature on this subject. But hopefully you both can learn something and appreciate the fact that people are different and learn differently.
 
Both of you read this: http://blc.uc.iupui.edu/Academic-Enrichment/Study-Skills/Learning-Styles/3-Learning-Styles

Simplified, dumbed down version of a whole body of literature on this subject. But hopefully you both can learn something and appreciate the fact that people are different and learn differently.

My original point had nothing to do with learning styles- I'm actually probably a poster child for not learning much from lectures. I was just saying that depending on only hands-on experience with patients you see to learn the entire body of knowledge in a given specialty is not ideal. I could name a dozen topics that ob/gyn board examiners love, that residents could easily go four years without ever seeing. Maybe that's only the case in my field.

I think the disconnect came when "didactics" was interpreted as "having book chapters read to you" - something I agree would be pretty useless. What I think of (and experienced) as "didactics" is actually closer to the focused topic reviews, Q&A, simulated cases, and discussions with people who've "been there done that" that got praised in other posts-- a synthesis of the stuff you'd read on your own, with the less important stuff filtered out.
 
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I love self-study, but what I love even more is good doctors sharing their clinical pearls, their personal experience, their shortcuts and techniques. The latter is what makes a residency or fellowship better than others.

That's why I love Paul Marik's critical care books, for example. I don't need somebody to recite Uptodate for me, I want them to tell me about their own experience, even (or especially) if it contradicts the mainstream view. If they don't have enough experience to talk freely about a subject, they shouldn't be teaching it. That's why the best teachers can do it just with pen and paper anywhere; no need for fancy Powerpoint.

Most academic programs make lecturers out of their resume padders, the fancy-shmancy brown-nosers who write their papers while supposedly directing cases and teaching. Because that's what matters in academia, the amount of research crap one has unleashed on one's peers. Instead, they should use the clinical guys, the ones who also work solo, the ones with hundreds of hours of hands-on experience in the respective subject. Those are the ones I have learnt the most from, the kind of people who could run circles around their academic peers in a clinical setting. I learnt more from the clinical guys in my first year as an attending than from most of my academic teachers.

The problem with American graduate programs is that they are too research-centered, because they can afford the luxury to. In some parts of the world, if you don't teach well, nobody will waste 5-7 years slaving away for you. Teaching should be the number one mission of every academic program, because they make tens of thousands of dollars on the back of every trainee every year. A good program should have a good number of clinical guys, who couldn't give a crap about their resume, and a good number of emeritus level people, who are beyond giving a crap about it, but who are still passionate about their job and teaching. IMO, these are the guys with the pearls, who will teach the stuff one cannot read in a book; not the famous textbook writers, ASA meeting speakers or board examiners, no offense.

Btw, I went to the ASA meeting hoping to have my socks knocked off. I am still a fellow, so I am still growing (and will be, for the next 30 years). Except for 1-2 talks, it was an utter waste of my time and money. I heard stuff that I had read online months before in a much better digested form, with less fluff and more practical applications than the Powerpoint presentations by junior faculty at the ASA. These people and their academia are still living in the last century; they should look at stuff like FOAMEd or SMACC to see how real teaching in the 21st looks. Here are two great examples, from the world of emergency medicine (and from a great TEACHER, may he rest in peace):





Another example. Many lectures from the University of Maryland CC project are excellent (their fellowship program too, most likely), just look at these two:





Thank God, critical care has some great doctors blogging and podcasting, both in the US and abroad, so I am spoiled with stuff like this every day. The day is not long enough to read and listen to quality materials, so all I want from my fellowship is to give me the time to be able to do so, when not learning from patient care and when not being taught useful clinical pearls or practical skills by good teachers.

In a good program, every of the 80 hours/week of training should be well accounted for.


Agree totally with this. I intentionally chose a cardiac fellowship that was light on didactics. I did not feel unprepared whatsoever to practice, and I joined a group that is doing academic level heart cases but isn't academics. I knew I wasn't staying in academics, and wanted to prioritize clinical time with experienced, well trained attendings.
 
if you think didactics are waste of time you still need to pass boards. How do you explain the fact that couple of residents failed their boards in previous years because they had no time to study. How many hours per week do you get time to study?
What have didactics to do with passing the boards? I can count on the fingers of one hand (starting with the middle one) the things I have learned in typical residency lectures that have helped me on the boards. I barely remember most of the various oral presentations (despite the fact that there were 60+ hours worth every year), but I can probably list 5-10 great books that taught me better, both as information retention and time needed.

Simulations, case discussions or mock oral exams are a completely different animal, but those are rare. Teaching should happen in the OR or in an emulated OR setting. People learn best from mistakes, either their own or others', probably because of the emotional charge, so good learning will not happen in the cushy laid-back setting of a presentation.
 
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if you think didactics are waste of time you still need to pass boards. How do you explain the fact that couple of residents failed their boards in previous years because they had no time to study. How many hours per week do you get time to study?
Well, back up. The days of anesthesia residents having "no time to study" are pretty much gone.

If you look at any of the hour-counting threads we've had in the last 10 years or so, you'll see that the overwhelming majority of anesthesia residency programs are around 60-65 hours per week, or less. Occasionally a touch more during ICU months. That's a lot compared to the cheese factory worker who lives next door, sure, but it's not the 80-90+ of ye olden days. The simple truth is that even at so-called workhorse programs, residents have "time" to read.

No, it's not easy. Yes, residency dominates your life for 3 years. It's even harder if you have kids and want to be a present parent all the time, or a working spouse who can't assume all domestic duties for three years. There are lots of reasons why individuals struggle to pass the written boards, but "no time to study" because of in-hospital hours isn't a plausible reason since roughly midnight July 1st 2003.

The answer for me was to go to bed at 8 with my elementary-school-aged kids then get up at 3:30 AM or so to read for a couple hours before going to work, for most of my CA-1 year.

It gets easier after the first 6 months or so, because you get efficient. Daily room setups don't take an hour, and nightly preops don't take two hours because you have to consult Jaffe and read extra about a case you've never done before.
 
I think there has to be a balance. Anyone making the argument, only way to learn anesthesia is being in the OR is flawed as well. That in itself is not enough, it is possible to go to a program with great diversity of cases, but crappy teachers/no teaching and you will have a hard time honing/improving your skills. The flip coin is that in order for a resident to really succeed doesn't require program spoon feeding you, but the resident should have a desire and dedication to excel. A good residency program will provide diverse clinical load, along with excellent teachers, and a pleasant environment to work in.
 
Balance sounds nice and ideal, but I agree with most of the others, didactics should be minimal, OR time maximized, and 100% of book learning be personal responsibility. It's easy to read a book and memorize what would Barash or Miller or your favorite book/author would do. But OR experience is absolutely necessary to learn what you would actually do in real life and possibly answer on oral board exam, and you can back up your decisions based on what you memorized and experienced.

I think board certification pass rate on first attempt and fellowship match rate are the best determinants of the quality of a program. When someone from MGH or Stanford fails it's a big deal. When it's from a no name or known malignant program, that's just life.
 
Simulations, case discussions or mock oral exams are a completely different animal, but those are rare.

Just chiming in again to reiterate that when I used the word "didactics," the above is what I meant. In my residency that's what we got, with few traditional lectures sprinkled in. If those types of didactics sessions are rare in anesthesia residencies I can understand the instant hatred that popped up when I said didactics are useful.
 
I still remember some cases I did during residency over 20yrs ago but I don't remember a single lecture.
 
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OK, I'm a recent graduate of RWJ (in order to try to maintain some anonymity, I'm going to say class of 2013, 2014, or 2015) and wanted to give the facts. I think crgex is a CA-1 who has been fed some misinformation based on conversations with senior residents rather than their own experience.

1. Yes the program is on probation, I heard it was due to lack of "protected time" which was true, we only got like 1 hr/wk for case conference and 1 hr/wk for barash lecture(which wasn't really protected time since we just had to come in early before case conference and not to mention, it was worthless. 1/4 to 1/2 of the time the attending didn't show up, the lecture wasn't based off barash, or it was recycled from yrs ago. I stopped going after a while)
Obviously, that has changed and I heard from current residents that they do have more didactic time.

As a side note, for all those posters who think more didactic time or less work hrs correlates with passing the board, you have no idea what you're talking about. Passing the board is all about individual motivation. To prepare for the boards, all I did was truelearn qbank and I passed easily. And I know for a fact that the people from this residency that failed just flat out didn't study. And no, it wasn't because they worked too much hrs or they had other commitments. They were just lazy. I know people from my residency that had kids(young kids and they passed with no problem). Passing the board is about self-motivation, just like step i, just like the mcat.

2. Work hrs - For a regular OR month, I worked about 60 hrs/wk, light week - 50s, heavy week 70s. From a personal standpoint, the numbers don't seem that much but for some reason as with my co-residents it seems longer than it was. I think part of it was that overnight call is usually brutal so you're sleeping most of your post call day. And if you're 3rd or 4th call, it possible you stay to 8PM(maybe even to 10 if it's during july or august when the new ca-1s start). So you might work "only" 60 hrs that week but you end up wasting 10 or more hrs just recuperating from the work.
Yes CA-3 is a cush year but you do work weekends the 2nd half of the year. You don't work Saturdays but you do work Sundays and sometimes Fridays. Minor point but just getting the facts straight.

3. The clinical training is excellent. You will be ready to be on your own the minute you leave residency.
A. technical skills - you will be excellent at alines, central lines(regular TLC or MAC(called big or little mama at RWJ)), airways(be proactive about fiberoptic, request to do elective fob with attendings that are good at them, you'll know who they are), and epidurals/spinals
only skills that will be lacking are regional and I'll go into that later but the IMPORTANT point is that you WILL be competent at the life-saving technical skills, which is crucial to any anesthesiologist

B. clinical judgment - you will encounter plenty of sick patients as you would at any tertiary care center. Taking care of them and taking care of alot of them is what will make you a good clinician.

4. Regional experience sucks - yes you may do 100 blocks during your regional month but what's the point when 70 of them are fem/sci and the rest are mostly supraclavicular. I did 0 axillary, 0 ankle, 1 popliteal, 1 infraclavicular, and maybe 3 interscalenes. Practicing right now, the most common blocks I do are interscalene, popliteal, and femoral. My point is that the regional experience at rwj is basically a one/two trick pony. You need to be competent in a variety of blocks, especially in private practice where everybody is expected to know how, not like in academic centers where there are specific "regional" attendings.

5. To answer why former residents felt disgruntled were many fold:
A. We felt treated like work monkeys, a body in the OR because they need somebody there so they can make money(in retrospect, I don't care about this anymore, it made me a better anesthesiologist cause I did alot of stuff by myself in terms of managing the patient)
B. We felt inferior to the crnas(heck it seemed like the crnas were treated better than the attendings) and that was because they don't do their own preops(we have do it for them), they can break the rules(come in late, take a longer break or lunch) and not get in trouble, numerous times when told to relieve a resident, some of the crnas would take over 30 minutes before doing so(during this time, other residents lower down on the go-home list may get relieved and you end leaving after them) yet we're expected to relieve them immediately....can you tell me I'm still pissed off about this
C. meal cards, we only got like $100/month, whereas the residents in other depts got significantly more. But this has been changed. Also, part of the reason for the discrepancy was that the secretary in our dept in charge of our meal money was embezzling it for their own purposes.
D. Some of the attendings were just bad(borderline incompetent). One of the attendings I respect there said "there are three kinds of attendings are: competent, competent but lazy or manipulative, or lastly incompetent and lazy." Working with the last 2 groups of attendings was pain in the ass. They won't help or teach you and you had to undo the stupid stuff they did.

6. Getting tired writing about this but I guess the take home message is:
A. yes this program is on probation but it sounds like they're fixing the cause so I think they'll come off on the revisit. That being said, if you're a med student going thru match, I would definitely rank this place low solely for that reason cause that's too much insecurity for you to worry about(especially when you can't control the circumstances)
B. if you want to be a good competent anesthesiologist, you will get that training here. You will be ready and confident of your skills and knowledge when you become an attending.
C. you will not be ready to do anesthesia at any top academic center because a) we do zip research(and the research actually done isn't earth-shattering)) b) we don't do many advanced cases(no pediatric hearts, no liver, lung transplants, no horrendous ENT tumors/facial reconstruction with funky airways, etc)
D. although regional experience is poor, they will teach you in private practice but even then it will take some time for you to get good at them because like with all technical skills, volume is the key.

Lastly, to the person that wrote that there are former grads that are doing heart cases without fellowship is complete BS. I don't know anybody who graduated recently from RWJ that is doing that.
 
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I'm also a grad of RWJ gas program.. its been a few years but all I can say now is that my clinical training there was top notch, second to none, best in the state, etc.. I work in a PP with several other grads of the program and we are clearly the strongest attendings in our group. Our level of comfort with peds, cardiac, thoracic, major vascular and neuro is a solid notch above our colleagues who trained at other programs in NY and NJ.

I'm into the whole independent study thing so naturally I feel that didactics are a complete waste of time. Grand rounds were basically an excuse to embarrass and humiliate the poor schmuck standing in front of the room, but we used to do weekly mock oral exams which were probably the only real non-clinical teaching I enjoyed.

PS. We also know how to use a TSE mask. ;)
 
Lastly, to the person that wrote that there are former grads that are doing heart cases without fellowship is complete BS. I don't know anybody who graduated recently from RWJ that is doing that.

I disagree here.. I know of 2 grads who are doing cardiac without fellowships. They were both rock stars, did maybe 6 months of hearts as CA3's and passed the echo boards on their first attempt. Both graduated from the program less than 10 years ago. I don't know how many hearts are being done now but out echo experience there was SOLID. I cant tell you how many times I've wanted to hip check the cardiologist and just do the echo myself instead of watching him/her fumble around for 20 minutes.
 
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