future salary for fp

[tatabox80]

My understanding is that the training is much shorter and less expensive and this is more convenient for a lot of people...I've heard this is one of the reasons.

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[deleted6669]

I always wondered, why do people become PA's when it seems like they re just doing everything the physician does, and probably more of the dirty work that he doesn't want to handle? I m sure there are some reasons? Don't mean to flame, just wondering?

as a pa you are not limited to 1 specialty like an md. you can do fp for a yr then do peds for 3 yrs then neurology, etc
we receive generalist training that is rapidly adaptable to any field with a bit of study and on the job training/direction from an md specialist.pa's practice in every medical and surgical subspecialty and can work themselves into a top position in any field in only a few years and change specialties as often as desired.
also the money isn't bad. a good ortho/surgical/er pa makes over 125k/yr with significantly fewer loans to pay back than an md.
went sailing last week with 2 friends, a pa and a doc. the pa owned the boat(34 ft/ $140k sailboat and arrived in a bmw(new 3 series). the doc arrived in his 10 yr old honda.......still paying off his loans......

 

[corpsmanUP]

as a pa you are not limited to 1 specialty like an md. you can do fp for a yr then do peds for 3 yrs then neurology, etc
we receive generalist training that is rapidly adaptable to any field with a bit of study and on the job training/direction from an md specialist.pa's practice in every medical and surgical subspecialty and can work themselves into a top position in any field in only a few years and change specialties as often as desired.
also the money isn't bad. a good ortho/surgical/er pa makes over 125k/yr with significantly fewer loans to pay back than an md.
went sailing last week with 2 friends, a pa and a doc. the pa owned the boat(34 ft/ $140k sailboat and arrived in a bmw(new 3 series). the doc arrived in his 10 yr old honda.......still paying off his loans......

You can't generalize all situations to this one. I know PA's who drive Ford Festiva's but that also doesn't mean that is the standard. People go to medical school because they have a calling to be a physician. In the end, there is no situation I can think of whereas a PA will end up better off financially in the long run. Perhaps in the short term, but not in the long run.
Of course there are exceptions, but in virtually every instance the long term salary of the physician will surpass even the loan debt and extra years and eclipse the PA long term salary. And its like this, do you want to explain your whole life what you do as a PA and feel like you get little respect and understanding from anyone outside of medicine? Life is a respect game in many instances, and a physician will always be at the top of the respect chain of command. Physicians in fact make much less than most business professionals but yet still are respected by and large more than they. I want to be respected by my peers, my family, my patients, and my society. That is why I am becoming a physician. There is nothing wrong with being a PA, but be ready to swallow some pride to be one.

 

[NRAI2001]

as a pa you are not limited to 1 specialty like an md. you can do fp for a yr then do peds for 3 yrs then neurology, etc
we receive generalist training that is rapidly adaptable to any field with a bit of study and on the job training/direction from an md specialist.pa's practice in every medical and surgical subspecialty and can work themselves into a top position in any field in only a few years and change specialties as often as desired.
also the money isn't bad. a good ortho/surgical/er pa makes over 125k/yr with significantly fewer loans to pay back than an md.
went sailing last week with 2 friends, a pa and a doc. the pa owned the boat(34 ft/ $140k sailboat and arrived in a bmw(new 3 series). the doc arrived in his 10 yr old honda.......still paying off his loans......

Wow, good points. A good, experienced PA can probably intergrate many parts of medicine together?

 

[espbeliever]

ok, so ive done a ton of number crunching and im coming down to some fine points to dictate things:

1) how much of the local population would you see as an fp on ave? approx 5-10% ?? more?? less??

2) how much face time does the average patient get with docs? with nurses?

3) approx how much that is billed is recovered?? 60-70%?? more??

sorry... im a number crunching fool.

 

[NRAI2001]

ok, so ive done a ton of number crunching and im coming down to some fine points to dictate things:

1) how much of the local population would you see as an fp on ave? approx 5-10% ?? more?? less??

2) how much face time does the average patient get with docs? with nurses?

3) approx how much that is billed is recovered?? 60-70%?? more??

sorry... im a number crunching fool.

My parents (both are general internists) told me that they spend on avg of 5 to 10 mins per patient.

They have a really good biller, who is able to recover a large percentage, they said that is one area that many practices are weak in.

 

[bigeyedfish]

Just stay away from Enron, internet stocks, and the like. I stick by what I said although I see your point. It is possible to have a negative return in the stock market or the real estate market. I have seen it plenty of times. Doesn't seem possible but it is!

Not over a 30 year period. In any 30 year period and the market always comes out a winner. This is how insurance companies make their money.

 

[bigeyedfish]

When the investment balance is greater than the loan balance you will finally have a positive net worth. That is a good thing to have.

Sure postive net worth is good, but I wouldn't focus on it like it's a huge milestone. In fact with the loans we have access to, I wouldn't even think twice about it. I'd rather have more money invested sooner, than have a positive net worth sooner.

For example: If you concentrate on investing rather than paying off loans, it is reasonable that in a few years you could have 168k invested. Figuring a 6% return, (pretty conservitive over a 30 year period. The historical return on being broadly invested in the stock market is 10%, and figuring in the recent changes, it's 11.5%. There is no 20 period in history where the market lost money,) after 30 years you'll have over a million dollars. That's without adding a penny to it for 30 years.

Say you concentrate on paying the balance of the loan and don't get that same amount, 168k invested until 4 years later. The same amount over 26 years at the same rate will only earn you about 750k. In that example. getting in the game 4 years later because you want to pay your loans off early is costing you a quarter of a million bucks.

 

[corpsmanUP]

Sure postive net worth is good, but I wouldn't focus on it like it's a huge milestone. In fact with the loans we have access to, I wouldn't even think twice about it. I'd rather have more money invested sooner, than have a positive net worth sooner.

For example: If you concentrate on investing rather than paying off loans, it is reasonable that in a few years you could have 168k invested. Figuring a 6% return, (pretty conservitive over a 30 year period. The historical return on being broadly invested in the stock market is 10%, and figuring in the recent changes, it's 11.5%. There is no 20 period in history where the market lost money,) after 30 years you'll have over a million dollars. That's without adding a penny to it for 30 years.

Say you concentrate on paying the balance of the loan and don't get that same amount, 168k invested until 4 years later. The same amount over 26 years at the same rate will only earn you about 750k. In that example. getting in the game 4 years later because you want to pay your loans off early is costing you a quarter of a million bucks.

The average physician will make 40% more over a lifetime than a PA, most certainly a conservative estimate. An average PA across all specialties makes about 80K per year. An average physician across all specialties makes about 210K per year. That 250K you are saying the doc lost can easily be made up in a few years.

 

[bigeyedfish]

The average physician will make 40% more over a lifetime than a PA, most certainly a conservative estimate. An average PA across all specialties makes about 80K per year. An average physician across all specialties makes about 210K per year. That 250K you are saying the doc lost can easily be made up in a few years.

Huh? Where did I talk about PA's?

 

[goldfish85]

Huh? Where did I talk about PA's?

I think he was referring to emedpa's post. but he responded to you ... lol

 

[goldfish85]

Sorry but the numbers dont add up for me.

If a physician (in private practice) sees a patient ever 10 minutes and charges 80$ on average. you are talking 480 in an hour. And lets say this is done for 5 hours, 5 days a week for 10 months a year... thats 48k a month and 480k a year. of course taxes and overhead. come in. But how much can that possibly take? say it takes 300k out of the pay check, it leaves a easy 200k (or more). So i really dont understand why salary.com and all these websites quote such low figures (120,000/140,000). maybe the surveys are inaccurate or the estimates are just wrong.

Is it just me or does private practice (partnerships/solo) make a ton of money (sorry but 200k is a LOT of meney i think)?

Now, one websites i have read that FP work about 60 hours a week... and make about 80 an hour. In addition, these website (and some people on sdn) say that the avg salary is roughly 120k/yr. However, that just doesnt add up.

lets assume the 80 dollar an hour quote is correct.

so 80/hr. for 60 hrs a week. and for 11 months out of the year. (everyone need a vacation )
That adds up to $211,200 yr.

so if you are working at 120yr at 60hr a week... your really making only 45 an hour.

The reason i think the avg. is so low (120K, assuming this is the TRUE avg) is because FP probably are simply "lazy" with their hours that they put in. I know of a few that only work 4 days a week.
40hrs/week * 80/hr * 4 weeks * 12 months = $153,600/yr

Thats not bad at all for a 40hr week job. maybe thats a more accurate avg. however, may FP probably get paid more or some less than 80 an hour. thats just a conservative guess. and those owning their own practice, that have a PA or two under them will most likely have a large potential to make more money.

When it comes down to it, it depends on how smart of an investor and business man you really are. And for a FP to be a business man may come as negative to many but it is the real world. No one get rich off of a salary (exp for paris hilton), you to do something to make yourself richer.

However i think that a MD makes it much easier to gain wealth compared to other professions.

 

[deleted6669]

if as a solo fp you see a lot of medicare and hmo pts you are not making 80/hr you are making what they think your time is worth. so if they pay 40 dollars for a complete h+p and want 20 worth of labwork( say dip urine and cbc) to go with it you make 20 bucks for a complete h+p on a new pt that takes you an hr. you also have to pay your receptionist, medical asst or rn and coder for that hr in addition to other overhead like rent, electricity, etc. .... I just made those #s up but you get the idea.....
money in fp is made either with procedures, high volume, use of midlevels or a combination of the above. much easier in a group practice than as a solo guy also.....

 

[novacek88]

if as a solo fp you see a lot of medicare and hmo pts you are not making 80/hr you are making what they think your time is worth. so if they pay 40 dollars for a complete h+p and want 20 worth of labwork( say dip urine and cbc) to go with it you make 20 bucks for a complete h+p on a new pt that takes you an hour. you also have to pay your receptionist, medical asst or rn and coder for that hr in addition to other overhead like rent, electricity, etc. .... I just made those #s up but you get the idea.....
money in fp is made either with procedures, high volume, use of midlevels or a combination of the above. much easier in a group practice than as a solo guy also.....

1. That is a huge IF. That is like saying IF you see a lot of private paying patients......

2. An hour to do a complete H+P? What clinic are you working for? I recently had underwent an HP. The entire thing took 25 minutes. I had an EKG, Spirometry, Blood draw, blood pressure done in 10 minutes. I waited 5 minutes and spoke with my physician for 10 minutes. His nurses did all the "prep" work while he just walked in and chatted with me. And I wasn' the only patient undergoing an HP at the time. As soon as the nurses were done with me, they were working on the next patient. He could have easily done 3 relatively healthy HP's in an hour. I have private insurance like most of his patients and his office probably just made $300 off of me for 25 minutes of work.

With FP, your income really depends where you practice and the type of patient pool you will have. You don't necessarily have to do a lot of procedures if you can see a large volume of patients with decent insurance.

I do think attitudes impact the FP earnings. FP's really vary. You have some who want to be semi-house wives. They are part-timers who work 2 days a week and earn 60K. Then you will have the gunner who wants to work 12 hour days and Saturday mornings and earn 500K. I do think most FP's are fairly laid back in nature and chose to enter the field for reasons other than earning a lot of money and masaging their ego. They are content with an outpatient setting and working 35-40 hours per week and earning 120K-200K per year.

 

[novacek88]

Physicians in fact make much less than most business professionals but yet still are respected by and large more than they.

WRONG

Unless you are speaking in reference to CEO's of Fortune 500 companies, Investment Bankers who have reached the VP level and partners (not associates) in consulting firms, (which make less than 1 percent of all business professionals), most business professionals earn far less than doctors. In fact, physicians, still on average, earn more than any other profession, which include lawyers, accountants, bankers etc. It's funny how physicians think all these "Wall-Street guys just make millions and that they could have been one of them had they chosen not to pursue medicine." It's a myth

 

[Shinken]

WRONG

Unless you are speaking in reference to CEO's of Fortune 500 companies, Investment Bankers who have reached the VP level and partners (not associates) in consulting firms, (which make less than 1 percent of all business professionals), most business professionals earn far less than doctors. In fact, physicians, still on average, earn more than any other profession, which include lawyers, accountants, bankers etc. It's funny how physicians think all these "Wall-Street guys just make millions and that they could have been one of them had they chosen not to pursue medicine." It's a myth

So true! I always chuckle when there's a "why medicine?" thread and many people reply "Well, if you want to make a six-figure salary without all the years of study, why not get an MBA?"

By the way, I'd be very happy with making "only" 120-200k a year as a physician, particularly if the lifestyle is decent (decent meaning 40-50 hrs/wk).

 

[SDN]

I'm in a 4-physician group practice. We each see 4-5 patients an hour. We take HMO, PPO, and Medicare. The work environment is fun and relaxed, the work hours are never more than 8 a day, and none of us do hospital work anymore (which is fine, I hate driving 30 minutes to the hospital at 1 AM for an ICU admit).

The 120K/year figure is just not right. Perhaps that number is from old data, or from offices with docs that don't know how to capture charges properly, or from offices that don't bill insurance correctly?

Whatever.

Don't expect to make an orthopod's income. But don't think FM is a low-paid profession either. I feel the amount I make is appropriate for the amount I work. Plus I get enough free time to work on other projects (i.e. SDN) and spend plenty of time with my family.

 

[iatrosB]

I'm in a 4-physician group practice. We each see 4-5 patients an hour. We take HMO, PPO, and Medicare. The work environment is fun and relaxed, the work hours are never more than 8 a day, and none of us do hospital work anymore (which is fine, I hate driving 30 minutes to the hospital at 1 AM for an ICU admit).

The 120K/year figure is just not right. Perhaps that number is from old data, or from offices with docs that don't know how to capture charges properly, or from offices that don't bill insurance correctly?

Whatever.

Don't expect to make an orthopod's income. But don't think FM is a low-paid profession either. I feel the amount I make is appropriate for the amount I work. Plus I get enough free time to work on other projects (i.e. SDN) and spend plenty of time with my family.

Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[firetown]

I'm in a 4-physician group practice. We each see 4-5 patients an hour. We take HMO, PPO, and Medicare. The work environment is fun and relaxed, the work hours are never more than 8 a day, and none of us do hospital work anymore (which is fine, I hate driving 30 minutes to the hospital at 1 AM for an ICU admit).

The 120K/year figure is just not right. Perhaps that number is from old data, or from offices with docs that don't know how to capture charges properly, or from offices that don't bill insurance correctly?

Whatever.

Don't expect to make an orthopod's income. But don't think FM is a low-paid profession either. I feel the amount I make is appropriate for the amount I work. Plus I get enough free time to work on other projects (i.e. SDN) and spend plenty of time with my family.

Looks like you can provide some real numbers for everyone. It will be very good if you can provide some approximations. It might not be the average or the mean but at least it will provide some much needed information. Good to hear from a practicing FM.

 

[curious1]

WRONG

Unless you are speaking in reference to CEO's of Fortune 500 companies, Investment Bankers who have reached the VP level and partners (not associates) in consulting firms, (which make less than 1 percent of all business professionals), most business professionals earn far less than doctors. In fact, physicians, still on average, earn more than any other profession, which include lawyers, accountants, bankers etc. It's funny how physicians think all these "Wall-Street guys just make millions and that they could have been one of them had they chosen not to pursue medicine." It's a myth

Ummm that's not true in my experience. My buddies who went to law school when I went to medical school all started at $120k. One fellow started at $140k. Plus lots of nice perks (401k match and free child care and free loans for home purchases). Plus a bonus of 20k per year and a raise of 20k per year. Only one of them wants to stay and try to make partner and the rest all plan to move to mid sized firms where they can have a more relaxed schedule. But they still plan to make $200k+. Currently, it's true, they work very hard (around 2100 hours a year) but they have much more personal time than I do... and they make 4x what I do! My buddies who went out into the business world are all over the map but none of them are unemployed and all net over a hundred thousand a year (the engineers I know still working in engineering seem to get screwed the most and have the slowest salary growth). From my experience, anyone with the scores and determination to make it to a decent medical school could have made it into a top 15 law school (success in business is harder to predict). BUT in my opinion people don't really know how much cash other folks make every year. My realtor sells 5-6 houses a month and makes over $300k a year and while yes he does work hard he also took 8 weeks off for vacations last year. TRUE the RE market may slow down and his income could 1/2 (altho people will always buy and sell homes and I don't see how his commission will ever come down) BUT he isn't at risk to be sued by every client he touches. There are upsides and downsides to every profession, but those who think that somehow medicine is the place to be if you want to make money are sorely mistaken. AND THEN in my mind if the vast number of FPs started to net $250k or $300k a year, what emotion would I feel? FEAR! FEAR that somebody would tell the insurance companies and they would use that as ammo to cut reimbursements to new physicians even further. LASTLY you can discount the number of medicare patients in any practice for now but in 20 years I promise you your practice mix will be 50% medicare/medicaid so you had better run the numbers now.

Almost all of the physicians in private practice with whom I interact think that socialized medicine in some way shape or form is headed our way NO QUESTION. So look north to Canada and look over the ocean to the UK and Europe and re-read the '94 proposals and then you will have some idea of the system under which you will practice in 15 years.

 

[JohnnyOU]

Ummm that's not true in my experience. My buddies who went to law school when I went to medical school all started at $120k. One fellow started at $140k. Plus lots of nice perks (401k match and free child care and free loans for home purchases). Plus a bonus of 20k per year and a raise of 20k per year. .

I really doubt that. I've never heard of any lawyer graduating law school and starting off with that kind of salary...even harvard grads going to work at big firms very rarely start anywhere near that high. (I watched THE FIRM, so I'm in the loop )

And the vast majority of them are desperate for clients and money...they don't call them ambulance chasers for nothing.

But then again, I pretty much despise those parasites

Johnny

 

[iatrosB]

Almost all of the physicians in private practice with whom I interact think that socialized medicine in some way shape or form is headed our way NO QUESTION. So look north to Canada and look over the ocean to the UK and Europe and re-read the '94 proposals and then you will have some idea of the system under which you will practice in 15 years.

Not that I believe you, but primary care docs won't take as big of a hit as other docs. The docs in Canada aren't paid that bad as I recall.

 

[I-eye]

I really doubt that. I've never heard of any lawyer graduating law school and starting off with that kind of salary...even harvard grads going to work at big firms very rarely start anywhere near that high. (I watched THE FIRM, so I'm in the loop )

And the vast majority of them are desperate for clients and money...they don't call them ambulance chasers for nothing.

But then again, I pretty much despise those parasites

Johnny

Speaking from personal experience, it is absolutely true that graduates of top 10 law schools are virtually guaranteed $120K+ per year their first year out if they CHOOSE go to a big firm. This is common knowledge and there used to be a website called infirmation.com that disclosed the starting salary at all the major firms. I don't know if that is still up or not, but the information is still relatively easy to find if you do a couple google searches.

That being said, the vast majority of the law school graduates don't go to the top 10 schools (there are like 180+ law schools), and unfortunately many of them end going the ambulance chaser route. Very few top grads go this route because they don't have to in order to make good $. Plus, in most of my friends' case, they would not have gone into law if this was the only option available. Many went because it is the most versatile graduate degree and opens a lot of doors (particularly those who graduated from a top school).

As to the comment above that a person who got into a decent med school could get into a top law school, that is not necessarily true. The fields are very different and require different skills. I have friends who are docs and friends who are lawyers and some of them could have clearly chosen the other path and done fine, however this is by no means universal. It is absolutely true however that getting into A law school is much easier than getting into A med school. There are just fewer med school spots. Yet, getting into the top in either field is equally challenging

I would say on average young docs (all specialties considered) make more than young lawyers. But, the top law grads make $120-150K their first year out and may make $200K+ by their 4th year, so they get around a $350K-$450K head start since they aren't required to do a residency (and residency only pays around $40K/yr). Yet, the grass is not always greener on the other side. The lawyers in these jobs aren't the ones you see on the back of phone books or on those horrible commercials, they work their butts off often doing the most alienating work you can imagine. Most spend 95% of the day behind a desk and many would trade places with the average doc in a heart beat.

So all in all, I think both law and med have their upsides and downsides. Business is the same way. We all know that guy who flunked out of college and went to work for his dad and is now making $200K+/yr, but there are also those people with MBAs from decent schools working for $40K/yr. There are exceptions on both ends. However, I believe if you want to be almost guaranteed to make a solid living there is probably no better path than medicine.

In order to get wealthy you have to be an entrepreneur. You have to handle the money that you make correctly and have some unique ideas regardless of the career that you choose.

 

[windsurfr]

Goldfish you are an idiot

You know nothing about medical finance... similar to the majority of the population.

If a doc charges (and usually they have NO say in the charge) 300, medicare will pay 200. Of this the doc will get about 20% when it's all said and done. Thats 40 bucks. For a 15 minute physical... then 10 minutes of organizing, dictating, etc. At a max that is about 100/hr. And that is if you fly patients through and be less thorough.

Such stupid comments... a sorry state of medicine

 

[espbeliever]

Goldfish you are an idiot

You know nothing about medical finance... similar to the majority of the population.

If a doc charges (and usually they have NO say in the charge) 300, medicare will pay 200. Of this the doc will get about 20% when it's all said and done. Thats 40 bucks. For a 15 minute physical... then 10 minutes of organizing, dictating, etc. At a max that is about 100/hr. And that is if you fly patients through and be less thorough.

Such stupid comments... a sorry state of medicine

ouch. maybe you didnt notice the post from the great Lee B. my interpretation is that he basically sides close to goldfish whereas you are being a jerk infront of everyone. keep it clean man... this has been a good thread up until now...

 

[goldfish85]

Goldfish you are an idiot

You know nothing about medical finance... similar to the majority of the population.

If a doc charges (and usually they have NO say in the charge) 300, medicare will pay 200. Of this the doc will get about 20% when it's all said and done. Thats 40 bucks. For a 15 minute physical... then 10 minutes of organizing, dictating, etc. At a max that is about 100/hr. And that is if you fly patients through and be less thorough.

Such stupid comments... a sorry state of medicine

sorry if i have offended you or something but there is really no need to begin name calling....

your right i dont know about medical finance but thats why i am on this forum trying to learn about it. and as you saw from my post earlier i was just saying that "the numbers dont add up right".

i simply dont understand that some people on sdn quote these odd figures. for instance i heard a fp makes 120k/yr and that they work a crappy 70 hours a week. it really makes me think of the hours and how the numbers add up... and it just seems like many people on this forum like to think that fp have a hard sad life style and make little. i really dont think this is the case.

sorry if my post was offensive but no hard feelings....

 

[ramonaquimby]

really doubt that. I've never heard of any lawyer graduating law school and starting off with that kind of salary...even harvard grads going to work at big firms very rarely start anywhere near that high.

what kind of rock are living under?! all the ones i know (and i know many) started $120-140K. it was depressing (for me, not for them, lol...)

 

[firetown]

what kind of rock are living under?! all the ones i know (and i know many) started $120-140K. it was depressing (for me, not for them, lol...)

Entry-Level Lawyer Salaries Remarkably Stable (August 8, 2005 Press Release) — The median salary for first-year associates ranged from $67,500 in firms of 2-25 attorneys to $125,000 in firms of more than 500 lawyers, with a first-year median for all participating firms of $100,000. A comparison with figures reported for the prior five years reveals that first-year salaries have remained stable in firms of 251 or more lawyers during this period, with a median of about $110,000. This is in sharp contrast to a 30% increase in the median from April 1999 to April 2000.

http://www.nalp.org/content/index.php?pid=147


You can look at this website for some salary information of lawyers. Some lawyers make over the $100,000 mark in starting salaries but I think a large proportion will still start below that figure unlike most Doctors working full time who are likely to have starting salaries above $100,000. Most of the salary information I have seen put doctors way above what lawyers earn as starting salaries.

 

[I-eye]

On average you are right. Law salaries are much more school dependant, as are MBA salaries. The grads from the top law or MBA schools may make more than the young docs, but on average the docs make more. A "fourth tier" med school is not the same as a "fourth tier" law or business school.

I have seen long-term salaries that say lawyers make more and some that say docs make more over the course of their respective careers. I still say the best bet for a solid long-term salary is medicine. If you work full-time you should be guaranteed a minimum of $100K/yr.

To me it is not how much you make in total, but how much you enjoy the job and how much you get paid per hour. I am not going to work 100+hr/wk for $1 million/yr. However, I believe if a person can make around $100K, enjoy his/her job, and work reasonable hours in order to have time with family/friends, that is all a person needs. Some very happy people get by on much less than that.

 

[NRAI2001]

Entry-Level Lawyer Salaries Remarkably Stable (August 8, 2005 Press Release) — The median salary for first-year associates ranged from $67,500 in firms of 2-25 attorneys to $125,000 in firms of more than 500 lawyers, with a first-year median for all participating firms of $100,000. A comparison with figures reported for the prior five years reveals that first-year salaries have remained stable in firms of 251 or more lawyers during this period, with a median of about $110,000. This is in sharp contrast to a 30% increase in the median from April 1999 to April 2000.

http://www.nalp.org/content/index.php?pid=147


You can look at this website for some salary information of lawyers. Some lawyers make over the $100,000 mark in starting salaries but I think a large proportion will still start below that figure unlike most Doctors working full time who are likely to have starting salaries above $100,000. Most of the salary information I have seen put doctors way above what lawyers earn as starting salaries.

Thats after only 3 years of law school, most doctors don't cross the 100k mark untill after 4 years of med school plus 3-8 years of residency, and about 1000 gray hairs later, or even worse no hairs.

 

[flga]

I am married to someone that went to Harvard Law and yes, their salaries are high starting out as a 1st year associate-$100K+ depending on where you live-around $140-$150 in NY, LA and SF (the cost of living is outrageous so in reality this isn't that high of a number) and around $100K in Atlanta. But I have many friends that went to public law schools (UF) and they were lucky to see $70K out of school. For those lawyers that went to a top 5 school they can make a crap load of money at big firms, but it comes at a heavy price-no life at all working every weekend of most months throughout the year, etc. And if you decide to become a partner at a large law firm you can kiss your life goodbye. Those guys are working just as hard as the associates if not more with the added responsibility of having to bring new business to the firm. Unless you are willing to make huge sacrifices as a lawyer, an FP will make more money while keeping his/her sanity. No, it may not be as glamorous as being a hot-shot partner at a big firm, but over the long haul you will have complete control of how much or how little money you want to make. Most of our friends here in the South are contemplating when they can leave their big firm jobs because though the pay isn't bad for now (150k) they just do not see themselves working this hard for the rest of their lives. These are all people in their early 30's so I guess this specific group burned out quick. Im in my residency, so who are they to say that they are working hard anyways.

 

[I-eye]

I am married to someone that went to Harvard Law and yes, their salaries are high starting out as a 1st year associate-$100K+ depending on where you live-around $140-$150 in NY, LA and SF (the cost of living is outrageous so in reality this isn't that high of a number) and around $100K in Atlanta. But I have many friends that went to public law schools (UF) and they were lucky to see $70K out of school. For those lawyers that went to a top 5 school they can make a crap load of money at big firms, but it comes at a heavy price-no life at all working every weekend of most months throughout the year, etc. And if you decide to become a partner at a large law firm you can kiss your life goodbye. Those guys are working just as hard as the associates if not more with the added responsibility of having to bring new business to the firm. Unless you are willing to make huge sacrifices as a lawyer, an FP will make more money while keeping his/her sanity. No, it may not be as glamorous as being a hot-shot partner at a big firm, but over the long haul you will have complete control of how much or how little money you want to make.

The above is right on point.

 

[ramonaquimby]

The above is right on point.

Thats after only 3 years of law school, most doctors don't cross the 100k mark untill after 4 years of med school plus 3-8 years of residency, and about 1000 gray hairs later, or even worse no hairs.

yes, and yes! sorry i was so obnoxious earlier...i just knwo first hand of these "superhardworkingfirsttierlawschoolgradsworkinginbigfirms" types and it's always the joke. i agree that i wasn't refering to the 'average' graduate in my original (obnoxious) post