Gas vs Rads

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guavalord

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Current MS3, really struggling with specialty choice. Did a search for Gas vs. Rads and many of the threads were very outdated so I figured I would start a new one. Just looking for advice from people who have struggled with a similar decision. About me: MD in west, low 230s step 1, mostly honors in third year, and middle third class rank. Did not really like longitudinal patient contact so naturally gravitated towards these specialties.

Pros for gas: liked my rotation in it. All attendings very chill and enjoyable. Like procedures. Love the ability to do pain management and ownership opportunities involved with that (but not pain patients or clinic). Much better at physiology than anatomy. Liked pharmacology. Less competitive than rads.
Cons: CRNAs, nuff said. Working with surgeons can be hit or miss. Often felt bored during long cases, especially cases that weren't super involved. Call seemed more frequent than rads. Don't love early mornings....

Pros for rads: liked my rotation in it. Attendings were friendly and engaging. Love the technology aspect of rads. Procedures galore. Super broad and in depth knowledge base. Jobs seem to pay slightly more than gas and have more vacation weeks.
Cons: have to match a separate prelim year ( minor but annoying none the less), more competitive, I was much better at physiology than anatomy, longer residency with essentially required fellowship, job market woes recently (recovering apparently)...
I have talked myself in circles going back and forth between the two. Any opinions from others interested in these fields? I realize neither is a "lifestyle" field anymore as ROAD is misleading, but between the two choices which allows for a better lifestyle? Thanks in advance!
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It sounds like you don't really have anything negative in your "Cons," list for radiology! Therein lies your answer.

A few nuanced points:

Most gas programs require a separate prelim year also! Also, consider how gas is a specialty that is likely moving toward a higher dependence on mid-level providers.

If you pursue the IR residency, there is no fellowship required!
 
It sounds to me like rads is for you. The cons for anesthesia are more significant than for rads. Early mornings are a must for anesthesia. If you felt bored with anesthesia you will never with rads because there is always another case on the reading list. Anesthesia + fellowship is only one year less than rads + fellowship. Rads is still a buyer's market overall in terms of applying to residency and the job market is improving.

The great thing about rads is the ability to make a career what you want it. Want to never see a patient and sit in your home office? Telerads. See patients all day, every day? Mammo. Insane procedures? IR. Research? Academics. A nice mix of procedures, patient contact, reading films? Neuro, body, chest, so on. In anesthesia there are a few options like OR, pain clinic, or ICU but most of them work in the OR.
 
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Perpetually said:
It sounds like you don't really have anything negative in your "Cons," list for radiology! Therein lies your answer.

A few nuanced points:

Most gas programs require a separate prelim year also! Also, consider how gas is a specialty that is likely moving toward a higher dependence on mid-level providers.
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Yeah the mid levels concern me, but I would for sure do a fellowship to further separate myself from a CRNA. I was under the impression that many of the anesthesiology programs were categorical... whereas rads is almost exclusively advanced and more competitive.
Anyone worried that I liked physiology so much more than anatomy? It's one of the biggest concerns I have choosing between the two. Physiology students are usually recommended anesthesia...
 
I wouldn't get overly caught up in things like "I liked X, so I should go into Y." Like you, I enjoyed physiology and was good at it, but I also enjoy radiology and like my job.

Personally, I thought I would like anesthesiology for all of its similarities to radiology (e.g. shift work, focused patient contact), but my rotation through anesthesia cured me of that. It turned out that I just didn't have much of an interest in being in the OR, even if I wasn't on the sterile side of the curtain.

Still, they're both great fields with a lot to offer, so I'm not sure there's a wrong answer here. I also don't subscribe to the notion that everyone is destined to be a certain type of doctor, so I guess my overall point is just do what feels right, even if it goes against conventional wisdom of what you're "supposed" to do.
 
colbgw02 said:
I wouldn't get overly caught up in things like "I liked X, so I should go into Y." Like you, I enjoyed physiology and was good at it, but I also enjoy radiology and like my job.

Personally, I thought I would like anesthesiology for all of its similarities to radiology (e.g. shift work, focused patient contact), but my rotation through anesthesia cured me of that. It turned out that I just didn't have much of an interest in being in the OR, even if I wasn't on the sterile side of the curtain.

Still, they're both great fields with a lot to offer, so I'm not sure there's a wrong answer here. I also don't subscribe to the notion that everyone is destined to be a certain type of doctor, so I guess my overall point is just do what feels right, even if it goes against conventional wisdom of what you're "supposed" to do.
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What are your thoughts on AI technologies as radiologist helpers increasing efficiency and reducing demand for radiologists?
 
libertyyne said:
What are your thoughts on AI technologies as radiologist helpers increasing efficiency and reducing demand for radiologists?
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I think the people who know a lot about AI know very little about what a radiologist does.

I don't want to sound dismissive, because I'm sure eventually AI will progress to a degree that I can only imagine, but at that point it won't just be radiologists who will be looking for new jobs. Lots of people, both in and out of medicine, will be looking for work thanks to our new robot overlords. Even many people in medicine have a poorly developed idea of what I do, so I can only assume that's how radiology somehow got tied to this impending replacement by AI.

Even if I stipulate a computer can reliably discern between an artifact, a normal structure, a normal variant, and a true abnormality (I'm not), that's only 36% of my time (JACR, October 2013, Vol. 10:10, pp. 764-769). I'll start worrying when AI gets close to replicating the other 2/3rds of what I do. As it stands now, the only widespread example of "AI" is CAD in mammo, and even that's got lots of problems. Even cutting edge AI only screens something as straightforward as a CXR in the 70-80% range for sensitivity/specificity, which translates to abject failure in real-world medicine.
 
colbgw02 said:
I think the people who know a lot about AI know very little about what a radiologist does.

I don't want to sound dismissive, because I'm sure eventually AI will progress to a degree that I can only imagine, but at that point it won't just be radiologists who will be looking for new jobs. Lots of people, both in and out of medicine, will be looking for work thanks to our new robot overlords. Even many people in medicine have a poorly developed idea of what I do, so I can only assume that's how radiology somehow got tied to this impending replacement by AI.

Even if I stipulate a computer can reliably discern between an artifact, a normal structure, a normal variant, and a true abnormality (I'm not), that's only 36% of my time (JACR, October 2013, Vol. 10:10, pp. 764-769). I'll start worrying when AI gets close to replicating the other 2/3rds of what I do. As it stands now, the only widespread example of "AI" is CAD in mammo, and even that's got lots of problems. Even cutting edge AI only screens something as straightforward as a CXR in the 70-80% range for sensitivity/specificity, which translates to abject failure in real-world medicine.
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This seems like the perfect time for radiology to reach out and shape AI ML.

In 2004 there was probably a guy in the dorm room next Mark Z saying no one will ever share their life online.
 
orainformatics said:
This seems like the perfect time for radiology to reach out and shape AI ML.

In 2004 there was probably a guy in the dorm room next Mark Z saying no one will ever share their life online.
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And they were both down the hall from the guy predicting we'll have flying cars by now.

I'm not trying to say that computers can't help radiologists, or any human, do their jobs better. I'm responding to the idea that CP30 or Bender will occupy my chair in lieu of me.
 
So I realize that AI is a hot topic in all the various radiology forums... but does anyone have anymore thoughts regarding radiology vs anesthesiology? Especially since it seems like rads is on the uptick in competitiveness with the most current match cycle and I only have a low 230s step 1...
 
guavalord said:
So I realize that AI is a hot topic in all the various radiology forums... but does anyone have anymore thoughts regarding radiology vs anesthesiology? Especially since it seems like rads is on the uptick in competitiveness with the most current match cycle and I only have a low 230s step 1...
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I've been an anesthesiologist for 4 years now. Pain fellowship (but i work in the OR). Very happy. Looking back I find that my understanding of my anesthesiology rotation as a medical student was very lacking, so if you sometimes felt bored, it may be because of not fully appreciating what is happening around you, and you are usually assigned to basic routine cases that as an attending you are not wasting your time sitting in.

I personally found radiology to be extremely boring. While IR seems cool, I don't think I could sit through the 4 year residency. Though I do think the job market and pay and lifestyle is great, and the technology is cool and I can understand why people like it.

A big difference between a radiologist and an anesthesiologist (typically) is hands-on patient time. Yes in IR you may needle a few people or put ports in. But other than that, radiology is essentially non-clinical. In anesthesiology I am running pressors routinely, putting big IVs and lines in in a hurry, intubating in the ICU on coding patients, dealing with intra-op HD changes and figuring out the physiology of those changes. In anesthesiology you do those things on a daily basis. You have lots of crazy stories to tell about inside and outside the OR, and I think that physically you work harder than rads.

Both great fields and good luck to you.
 
Hoya11 said:
I've been an anesthesiologist for 4 years now. Pain fellowship (but i work in the OR). Very happy. Looking back I find that my understanding of my anesthesiology rotation as a medical student was very lacking, so if you sometimes felt bored, it may be because of not fully appreciating what is happening around you, and you are usually assigned to basic routine cases that as an attending you are not wasting your time sitting in.

I personally found radiology to be extremely boring. While IR seems cool, I don't think I could sit through the 4 year residency. Though I do think the job market and pay and lifestyle is great, and the technology is cool and I can understand why people like it.

A big difference between a radiologist and an anesthesiologist (typically) is hands-on patient time. Yes in IR you may needle a few people or put ports in. But other than that, radiology is essentially non-clinical. In anesthesiology I am running pressors routinely, putting big IVs and lines in in a hurry, intubating in the ICU on coding patients, dealing with intra-op HD changes and figuring out the physiology of those changes. In anesthesiology you do those things on a daily basis. You have lots of crazy stories to tell about inside and outside the OR, and I think that physically you work harder than rads.

Both great fields and good luck to you.
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Build up your forearms bag masking?
 
What kind of procedures are common for non-interventional radiology attendings?
 
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neoevolution said:
What kind of procedures are common for non-interventional radiology attendings?
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As comprehensive as my sleep deprived brain will allow:

Breast: biopsies (US, stereotactic, MRI) galore, wire localizations, radioactive seed placements

Chest/body: GI fluoroscopy [(e.g., UGIs) I realize I'm being a little loose with the word "procedure" here], biopsies/FNAs, fiducial marker placement, perc bilis, perc nephs, perc choles, abscess drainages

Neuro: LPs, myelograms, epidurals, selective nerve root blocks, vertebroplasties/kyphoplasties, angiography (at least diagnostic)

MSK: arthrograms, joint/pain injections and aspirations


If you're used to seeing radiology practiced in academia, understand that's not how most private practices operate, especially the smaller ones. Many practices function as interchangeable generalists who concentrate on their area of expertise. For example, everyone in a practice may read brain MRI, but the neuro-trained guy reads the brachial plexus study. It's similar with procedures. Everyone might be expected to be able to do shoulder arthrograms, but they give the elbow arthrogram to the MSK-trained person.

Also, practices that offer IR services draw the line between DR and IR in different places, and that line might be different for different people. Some might expect a DR guy to be comfortable with percutaneous nephrostomies, chest ports, or even an IVC filter. I've seen others where the IR people gobble up all of the procedures all the way down to the lowly US-guided thyroid nodule FNA.

Whether you want to see patients all day or never speak, much less see, another soul, it's a spectrum, and there are a thousand different places along that spectrum where you can choose to practice. You just need to develop the skillset you want and then find a job where that skillset fits.
 
I would definitely choose rads over gas. Way better lifestyle. I am a night person, so I also hate early mornings. Way more variety in procedures than gas. Also, do you really want to deal with poop all day?
 
ms3will said:
I would definitely choose rads over gas. Way better lifestyle. I am a night person, so I also hate early mornings. Way more variety in procedures than gas. Also, do you really want to deal with poop all day?
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ChiTownBHawks said:
?

Gas is anesthesia, homie.
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Warderino92 said:
I wonder if GI would be as prestigious as it is as far as IM fellowships go if everyone referred to them as "gas"
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Oh. My. God. Literally spilled my drink reading this ahahaha.
 
Do you want to compete with CRNA for employment?


Let me make my point about radiology this way:

FINDINGS: There is a diffuse, dense, airspace opacity occupying most of the left upper lobe with air bronchograms and only minimal aeration of apex. This produces slight posterior displacement of the major fissure. This is new since the prior examination. There are several small scattered sub-centimeter blebs in the right upper lobe, but pulmonary parenchyma is otherwise unremarkable. There is minimal left pleural fluid.

Normal heart and pericardium.

Normal trachea and bronchial tree without a demonstrated endobronchial lesion.

There are nonspecific lymph nodes in the pre-vascular, aortopulmonary window and precarinal spaces, but there is no evidence of a nodal mass. The largest lymph nodes in the pre-vascular space measures 9mm in AP dimension. Normal hilar regions.

Normal enhancement of the pulmonary arteries. There are atherosclerotic changes in the descending aorta, but there is no evidence of aneurysm or dissection.

There are multi-level degenerative changes of the thoracic spine.

There is limited visualization of the liver, spleen, pancreas, adrenal glands, and abdominal aorta without a demonstrated abnormality.


IMPRESSION:
1. Dense air space opacity occupying most of the left upper lobe most compatible with pneumonia.
2. There is no substantial hilar or mediastinal lymphadenopathy.
3. No demonstrated endobronchial lesion.

Kathy McCaster NP (that won't happen in the near future)
 
Gas is mostly categorical, and more advanced programs are changing to categorical especially the good ones because being advanced is a huge negative to most applicants.

THe job market for rads is much better than gas, no competition from nurses. AI may be an issue in the future with machine learning and such but not in near future for sure

Gas also has anatomy involved, obviously not as much as radiology, but you do have to know them for your various regional/neuraxials.

Radiology is much more of a lifestyle specialty. People say Gas is shiftwork buts not really. You have a set start time, but you dont have a set end time so it's not true shift work. You start at ~630 daily and end usually when you are done with all your patients which can vary a lot day to day and surgeon to surgeon, so it's not much different from being in clinic and being done when you see all the patients.

Gas definitely has more pharm and physio. Also if you like quick results gas is good, you really see your drugs working infront of you. Also as a med student long cases can easily be boring to you. However you literally know nothing about anesthesiology. Doing it will feel very different. Though it is a stressful specialty and sometimes a long case with not that much going on is good.
 
"Do you really wanna deal with poop all day?"

Hahahaha. I love it. I even took the time to type it out myself. Hats off to you sir.

For seriousness, I think both fields have an insecure future. People are scared of outsourcing. I'm at the VA on rotations right now. CRNAs can practice there on their own and most of my radiographic tests that I order are read by radiologists in California (I'm Midwest). Who's to say that they couldn't just send them right quick to India and save a few bucks down the road?

But insecurity is not certain doom. It's insecurity.Physicians, residents, and med students are so incredibly risk-averse that it can be paralyzing to not be able to predict your future.

Additionally, I'm not a fan of the idea that there's ONE FIELD for you and if you pick wrong you'll hate your life forever. I'm sure for most of us, we would be happy in most fields. We can't all be dermatologists! lol. Your ability to dictate your schedule post-residency, your life outside the hospital, and most importantly, your attitude will determine how "happy" you are much more than the field of medicine you choose.
 
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Oh, and I will be applying to Anesthesiology Residency in this fall because I love GAS. Poop and all. 😉
 
Mr Medschool Money said:
Oh, and I will be applying to Anesthesiology Residency in this fall because I love GAS. Poop and all. 😉
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You can outsource things to India, but how do you think your surgeon likes to be given the run around and having to talk to an Indian radiologist who otherwise don't speak English when there is an urgent finding?

There is a reason why CALL centers are coming back to the US and the india thing will never happen. Radiology's future is very secure. Even AI cannot replace radiology until AI are considered to be a separate intelligent specie besides human because AI cannot take over the full spectrum of our job. Radiology isn't easier to automate than say..anesthesia.
 
Go into Rads.

Leave gas for the folks who actually wanna go into it.

All this talk about CRNAs is true and it will happen.

But the minute they **** up their first complex ASA case... then you are there to put out the fire. I'll take it as long as I can hit 400-500K and don't have to see a patient all day.
 
Also by law only US BC/BE radiologists can read studies, so unless that guy in india did a residency in radiology here he won't be doing any reads for US patients any time soon.
 
Warderino92 said:
Also by law only US BC/BE radiologists can read studies, so unless that guy in india did a residency in radiology here he won't be doing any reads for US patients any time soon.
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That's not true. The only legal standard is that one must possess a valid medical license. By law, that permits me to do everything from interpret an MRI to perform brain surgery. All of the other brakes on the system come from privileging bodies (i.e. hospitals) and insurance companies, to include CMS.

The outsourcing to India concern is old, tired, and wrong. Apart from issues of quality and accountability, which are significant, you cannot bill CMS for services provided outside of the United States. Medicare is sort of a big payor around these parts, which is why it doesn't make financial sense to try to import interpretations from abroad. Besides, teleradiology has been around for awhile now, yet here we are with a unsurprising lack of reads from India. Even the preliminary reads coming from places Switzerland and Australia have largely dried up because the profit margins no longer permit it.
 
DrfluffyMD said:
You can outsource things to India, but how do you think your surgeon likes to be given the run around and having to talk to an Indian radiologist who otherwise don't speak English when there is an urgent finding?

There is a reason why CALL centers are coming back to the US and the india thing will never happen. Radiology's future is very secure. Even AI cannot replace radiology until AI are considered to be a separate intelligent specie besides human because AI cannot take over the full spectrum of our job. Radiology isn't easier to automate than say..anesthesia.
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Clearly you have looked into the specific myths of radiology more than I. I won't to be pretend to be any expert. My point is that OP should not be driven by fear of the future for ______ field (there's "fears" in every field) but rather just do what makes him/her happy overall, inside and outside of the hospital. 👍
 
What is the average salary of a radiologist coming out?
 
libertyyne said:
Ylfrom what I hear you have to do a fellowship though.
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Yes pretty much every radiologist has to do a 1 year fellowship now a days so you can just assume your residency is 6 years instead of 5, unless you do IR now which will make it what, 7 years I think with the new pathway?
 
Warderino92 said:
Yes pretty much every radiologist has to do a 1 year fellowship now a days so you can just assume your residency is 6 years instead of 5, unless you do IR now which will make it what, 7 years I think with the new pathway?
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What lead to everyone having to complete a year of fellowship?
 
DrfluffyMD said:
You can outsource things to India, but how do you think your surgeon likes to be given the run around and having to talk to an Indian radiologist who otherwise don't speak English when there is an urgent finding?

There is a reason why CALL centers are coming back to the US and the india thing will never happen. Radiology's future is very secure. Even AI cannot replace radiology until AI are considered to be a separate intelligent specie besides human because AI cannot take over the full spectrum of our job. Radiology isn't easier to automate than say..anesthesia.
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Did you encounter a situation like this in the past? I know multiple doctors from India (and I mean within the country of India) and all of them could speak English. Well, unless you are referring to the accent...
 
Warderino92 said:
Yes pretty much every radiologist has to do a 1 year fellowship now a days so you can just assume your residency is 6 years instead of 5, unless you do IR now which will make it what, 7 years I think with the new pathway?
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Other way around. The new DR/IR and ESIR pathways for VIR cut 1 year from training. So 5 years total post-grad for VIR.

kb0275 said:
What lead to everyone having to complete a year of fellowship?
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The ABR (American Board of Radiology) switched the certifying process. Under the old system, you'd take the oral and written boards at the end of residency/4th year and (if you passed) then graduate board-certified.

Under the new system, you take one board exam (the Core exam) at the end of your 3rd year. If you pass then you are board-eligible (BE) Then you sit for your certifying exam 15months after residency to become board-certified. So basically everyone now goes into fellowship to kill 12 months.

Some places will probably hire a person fresh out of residency without a fellowship if they're really hard-up for radiologists. But given that most people are going into fellowship to kill time, the applicant pool is obviously skewed towards that.
 
DrfluffyMD said:
It is not. Too high.
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You are right... Coming out it's 315k, but within 1-2 years it's over 400k. I thought the poster was asking for the overall average. My apology to @kb0275


Clinical Practice
...................................................Low.......................Median..........................High
Starting salaries......................$ 272,500................$ 315,000.....................$ 355,000
1‒2 years in specialty..........................................$ 416,790......................................
All physicians ...............................$ 393,128.................$ 478,165......................$ 608,694

Taken from AAMCdotORG... CiM
 
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Warderino92 said:
Yes pretty much every radiologist has to do a 1 year fellowship now a days so you can just assume your residency is 6 years instead of 5, unless you do IR now which will make it what, 7 years I think with the new pathway?
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It should be 6 years. It wouldn't make sense to make an integrated pathway and have the same length as if doing a 5 year DR residency (which includes the 1 year internship) and 2 year IR fellowship.
 
Rads has sooooooo much reading and the pace you have to read is so quick that you really have to love it for what it actually is beyond "lifestyle"

Gas is good. Pace can go 0-100 really quick though and it's one of those fields where everyone in the OR expects it to go perfectly or they'll get annoyed at you. I still personally like gas more.
 
guytakingboards said:
Other way around. The new DR/IR and ESIR pathways for VIR cut 1 year from training. So 5 years total post-grad for VIR.



The ABR (American Board of Radiology) switched the certifying process. Under the old system, you'd take the oral and written boards at the end of residency/4th year and (if you passed) then graduate board-certified.

Under the new system, you take one board exam (the Core exam) at the end of your 3rd year. If you pass then you are board-eligible (BE) Then you sit for your certifying exam 15months after residency to become board-certified. So basically everyone now goes into fellowship to kill 12 months.

Some places will probably hire a person fresh out of residency without a fellowship if they're really hard-up for radiologists. But given that most people are going into fellowship to kill time, the applicant pool is obviously skewed towards that.
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Incorrect. IR/DR residency is a total of 6 years post-med school. IR independent residency (aka fellowship) is two years AFTER DR residency, so 7 years after med-school. ESIR (early specialization in IR) cuts 1 year from the IR independent residency, meaning a total of 6 years post-med school. So the absolutely quickest way to IR attendingland is IR/DR residency or DR residency with ESIR and a IR independent residency after. 6 years.

IR/DR residency: 6 years
DR -> IR independent residency: 7 years
DR with ESIR -> IR independent residency: 6 years
https://www.sirweb.org/learning-center/ir-residency/ir-training-pathways-table/
Society of Interventional Radiology- IR training pathways
 
gas all the way. except for the nasty saliva. the amount of work u have to do in a day is so little and wonderful!
 
colbgw02 said:
As comprehensive as my sleep deprived brain will allow:

Breast: biopsies (US, stereotactic, MRI) galore, wire localizations, radioactive seed placements

Chest/body: GI fluoroscopy [(e.g., UGIs) I realize I'm being a little loose with the word "procedure" here], biopsies/FNAs, fiducial marker placement, perc bilis, perc nephs, perc choles, abscess drainages

Neuro: LPs, myelograms, epidurals, selective nerve root blocks, vertebroplasties/kyphoplasties, angiography (at least diagnostic)

MSK: arthrograms, joint/pain injections and aspirations


If you're used to seeing radiology practiced in academia, understand that's not how most private practices operate, especially the smaller ones. Many practices function as interchangeable generalists who concentrate on their area of expertise. For example, everyone in a practice may read brain MRI, but the neuro-trained guy reads the brachial plexus study. It's similar with procedures. Everyone might be expected to be able to do shoulder arthrograms, but they give the elbow arthrogram to the MSK-trained person.

Also, practices that offer IR services draw the line between DR and IR in different places, and that line might be different for different people. Some might expect a DR guy to be comfortable with percutaneous nephrostomies, chest ports, or even an IVC filter. I've seen others where the IR people gobble up all of the procedures all the way down to the lowly US-guided thyroid nodule FNA.

Whether you want to see patients all day or never speak, much less see, another soul, it's a spectrum, and there are a thousand different places along that spectrum where you can choose to practice. You just need to develop the skillset you want and then find a job where that skillset fits.
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I posted this in the Radiology forum but no response, I figured more potentially helpful eyes would see it here

I am an MS1 very interested in radiology, and I have a few questions that I was hoping some people on here might be able to answer. From my research on SDN it seems that most DR residencies have a typical day of morning conference 7-8, reading from 8-12, 12-1 lunch didactic, 1-5/6 reading. During those reading times, are they broken up by leaving the reading room to do procedures? How many procedures does an average resident do per week? I'm sure this varies from program to program and the rotation you're on but any insight would help. If you had to give a ratio of time spent reading / time spent doing procedures what would you say that is? 80/20? 70/30? Since I am interested in doing procedures/seeing patients on occasion would it be best for me to look into IR residency/fellowship which would lead to dual board certification so I can split my practice into some days spent reading other days spent in clinic?

Thanks!!
 
JPSmyth said:
I posted this in the Radiology forum but no response, I figured more potentially helpful eyes would see it here

I am an MS1 very interested in radiology, and I have a few questions that I was hoping some people on here might be able to answer. From my research on SDN it seems that most DR residencies have a typical day of morning conference 7-8, reading from 8-12, 12-1 lunch didactic, 1-5/6 reading. During those reading times, are they broken up by leaving the reading room to do procedures? How many procedures does an average resident do per week? I'm sure this varies from program to program and the rotation you're on but any insight would help. If you had to give a ratio of time spent reading / time spent doing procedures what would you say that is? 80/20? 70/30? Since I am interested in doing procedures/seeing patients on occasion would it be best for me to look into IR residency/fellowship which would lead to dual board certification so I can split my practice into some days spent reading other days spent in clinic?

Thanks!!
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^^^ I'd like to know the same thing
 
JPSmyth said:
I posted this in the Radiology forum but no response, I figured more potentially helpful eyes would see it here

I am an MS1 very interested in radiology, and I have a few questions that I was hoping some people on here might be able to answer. From my research on SDN it seems that most DR residencies have a typical day of morning conference 7-8, reading from 8-12, 12-1 lunch didactic, 1-5/6 reading. During those reading times, are they broken up by leaving the reading room to do procedures? How many procedures does an average resident do per week? I'm sure this varies from program to program and the rotation you're on but any insight would help. If you had to give a ratio of time spent reading / time spent doing procedures what would you say that is? 80/20? 70/30? Since I am interested in doing procedures/seeing patients on occasion would it be best for me to look into IR residency/fellowship which would lead to dual board certification so I can split my practice into some days spent reading other days spent in clinic?

Thanks!!
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Going to have to paint with broad strokes here, because you're right - it varies according to program and rotation.

You can count on at least an hour of lecture a day. There might be more if there's a guest lecturer or a grand rounds. Some programs will have two conferences per day, with the second or "lesser" one being more informal - something presented by the residents or a case-based presentation.

Procedures are generally scattered throughout the day, with residents expected to read studies between them. I can't really give you a percentage because there are too many variables, e.g. are fellows/upper levels/attendings doing the procedures, the nature of the rotation, the work flow conventions of the hospital. For example, if you rotate with me in September, you'll get zero procedures because the fellows want all of them. If you come back in June, then you'll have the opportunity to do them.

As you're aware, IR is trying to change how it functions. My understanding is they want to be a clinical service, meaning that PP interventionalists would see clinic and have dedicated procedure time. Right now, the old model is more common in private practice - IRs are part of DR practices and are expected to function as diagnostic radiologists a decent percentage of the time. It's the bottom line that will drive all of this, of course, and it remains to be seen how it'll play out. Suffice it to say, things could look a lot different when you hit the job market in 9 years than they do right now.

In the meantime though, I can't counsel anyone to do DR unless they like the bread and butter work, i.e. interpreting studies. Doing DR as a road to IR, all the while hating it, strikes me as a terrible existence. It's the same principle of choosing IM, even though you hate it, because you love interventional cardiology. Obviously, the direct IR pathway changes the calculus, but it could affect back-up plans, because the number of direct pathway slots is low.

Understandably, medical students over-emphasize what residency looks like when choosing a specialty. Try to look beyond it and see how post-training life looks for these people. Also, if you're at a university, remember that your attending's practice may be vastly different than the guy in the same field at the private hospital across town.
 
harambe4ever said:
Incorrect. IR/DR residency is a total of 6 years post-med school. IR independent residency (aka fellowship) is two years AFTER DR residency, so 7 years after med-school. ESIR (early specialization in IR) cuts 1 year from the IR independent residency, meaning a total of 6 years post-med school. So the absolutely quickest way to IR attendingland is IR/DR residency or DR residency with ESIR and a IR independent residency after. 6 years.

IR/DR residency: 6 years
DR -> IR independent residency: 7 years
DR with ESIR -> IR independent residency: 6 years
Society of Interventional Radiology- IR training pathways
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. I assumed it cut time from the pathway. If the only change is that its 2 years of IR within the same 6 post graduate years then that's really stupid.
 
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