General DO job questions..

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First, I want to say that I am not trying to start another M.D. vs. D.O. war on the board. I am just very curious...

I am a masters student trying to make up for my less than stellar performance as an undergrad (3.2 GPA) and 25 MCAT (plan to take the MCAT again in April 2006)

I was wondering how hard would it be for a DO to get a residency in something like dermatology? I know it is tough for MD students themselves...what about DOs? Is it a little easier since they have their own residency spots they can apply to on top of MD spots?

Also, how successful are D.O.'s in getting jobs? Do they get paid the same as MDs? Are DOs successful?

And to all of you who are going to schools such as AZCOM, TUCOM, OSUCOM, etc. How the hell are you paying for the living and school? Approx. 50K a year if I am not mistaken? Also, will a DO after finishing residency be able to pay off those loans without too much trouble? That is like buying a damn house! I am just saying...I do not want to graduate with 200K in student loans and not be able to pay them off...
 
mizzoudude said:
First, I want to say that I am not trying to start another M.D. vs. D.O. war on the board. I am just very curious...

I am a masters student trying to make up for my less than stellar performance as an undergrad (3.2 GPA) and 25 MCAT (plan to take the MCAT again in April 2006)

I was wondering how hard would it be for a DO to get a residency in something like dermatology? I know it is tough for MD students themselves...what about DOs? Is it a little easier since they have their own residency spots they can apply to on top of MD spots?

Also, how successful are D.O.'s in getting jobs? Do they get paid the same as MDs? Are DOs successful?

And to all of you who are going to schools such as AZCOM, TUCOM, OSUCOM, etc. How the hell are you paying for the living and school? Approx. 50K a year if I am not mistaken? Also, will a DO after finishing residency be able to pay off those loans without too much trouble? That is like buying a damn house! I am just saying...I do not want to graduate with 200K in student loans and not be able to pay them off...
Click to expand...


You seem to have a lot of posts to be trolling...
Perhaps if you have been around these boards for awhile, you should know the answers to all of these questions already?
 
Please do not think that I am a troll...I have nothing against the D.O. practice at all. I just want to make sure that if I opt to do the D.O. route that I will be successful and that I will be able to pay back my loans eventually.
 
mizzoudude said:
Please do not think that I am a troll...I have nothing against the D.O. practice at all. I just want to make sure that if I opt to do the D.O. route that I will be successful and that I will be able to pay back my loans eventually.
Click to expand...

Lenders would not take the risk if your chances of paying them back are slim.
 
Getting a job as a DO shouldn't be a problem. It will depend on the specialty and the location of the job. There are plenty of foreign medical graduates that get jobs too so it's not like there aren't enough positions. It all depends on specialty and location.

As far as the pay goes, MD and DO get paid the same if they are in the same position. They are both physicians.

Private MD schools can cost over $50,000 in tuition and fees alone. People pay for it in loans for most part. Some DO schools are expensive, but some MD schools cost just as much.
 
mizzoudude said:
First, I want to say that I am not trying to start another M.D. vs. D.O. war on the board. I am just very curious...

I am a masters student trying to make up for my less than stellar performance as an undergrad (3.2 GPA) and 25 MCAT (plan to take the MCAT again in April 2006)

I was wondering how hard would it be for a DO to get a residency in something like dermatology? I know it is tough for MD students themselves...what about DOs? Is it a little easier since they have their own residency spots they can apply to on top of MD spots?

Also, how successful are D.O.'s in getting jobs? Do they get paid the same as MDs? Are DOs successful?

And to all of you who are going to schools such as AZCOM, TUCOM, OSUCOM, etc. How the hell are you paying for the living and school? Approx. 50K a year if I am not mistaken? Also, will a DO after finishing residency be able to pay off those loans without too much trouble? That is like buying a damn house! I am just saying...I do not want to graduate with 200K in student loans and not be able to pay them off...
Click to expand...


You gotta be kididng me right? DO and MD's are both physicians therefore make the same money if they are in the same specialty. Please do some research and good luck with you future choices! 🙂
 
mizzoudude said:
Are DOs successful?
Click to expand...

It depends on what you define successful. Are all MDs successful in your opinion? Either way you go there is going to be bad and good physicians, and I do believe it depends on you. It is not the initials behind your name that limits you, but the limit is where you set your limit.
 
mizzoudude said:
First, I want to say that I am not trying to start another M.D. vs. D.O. war on the board. I am just very curious...

I am a masters student trying to make up for my less than stellar performance as an undergrad (3.2 GPA) and 25 MCAT (plan to take the MCAT again in April 2006)

I was wondering how hard would it be for a DO to get a residency in something like dermatology? I know it is tough for MD students themselves...what about DOs? Is it a little easier since they have their own residency spots they can apply to on top of MD spots?

Also, how successful are D.O.'s in getting jobs? Do they get paid the same as MDs? Are DOs successful?

And to all of you who are going to schools such as AZCOM, TUCOM, OSUCOM, etc. How the hell are you paying for the living and school? Approx. 50K a year if I am not mistaken? Also, will a DO after finishing residency be able to pay off those loans without too much trouble? That is like buying a damn house! I am just saying...I do not want to graduate with 200K in student loans and not be able to pay them off...
Click to expand...

1. As long as you score well on the boards, then it will not be difficult to get a residency in anything. When comparing DO residencies, it is nice to have additional residencies that just DO's can apply to, then having to compete against all other medical schools.

2. Once you are a board certified, licensed physician, it is irrelevant what your degree is in. You are hired at a particular salary as a physician. It is as if your the DO or MD isn't even there, and is replaced with physician.

3. OSU-COM: $44,500 a year for an out of state student in loans. I will have $175,000 in debt when I graduate. This is also the mean salary for emergency medicine physicians, which is what I plan to do. You get 10 years to pay this off, so I will only lost 10% of my income. No big deal there.
 
USArmyDoc said:
You gotta be kididng me right? DO and MD's are both physicians therefore make the same money if they are in the same specialty. Please do some research and good luck with you future choices! 🙂
Click to expand...


A mole removed by a DO dermo is cheaper than one removed by an MD dermo? 😕
A pimple-popper will get paid the same by the insurance, or hopeully MC/Visa/Benjamins 🙂 , whether he be osteopathic or allopathic PHYSICIAN.

What "research" are you talking about? 😕 i volunteered in the ER for a while and know for a fact that in that hospital the ER docs get the same 220, MD or DO. Seriously NO ONE knows or cares as long as you fix the damn things correctly.

P.S. DO's can make alot more in primary care and FEW(sports, physiatry) specialties by perfomring(and billing-insurance covers this) osteopathic manipulation.

MIZZODUDE, do a search i dont do them that much and even I know that this topic is extensively covered.
 
3. OSU-COM: $44,500 a year for an out of state student in loans. I will have $175,000 in debt when I graduate. This is also the mean salary for emergency medicine physicians, which is what I plan to do. You get 10 years to pay this off, so I will only lost 10% of my income. No big deal there.
Click to expand...

You can actually finance all the way out to 30 years if you would like, through the federal government or through a private lender. However, if you take 30 years, you will pay significantly more (200-300k total) more than you would over a shorter duration 5-10 years.

My general rule of thumb has always been, if you really want something paid off and it is equal to 1 years salary, it is obtainable easily within 4 years. Roughly 25% of your income. Yes, you may not be able to buy a new Porsche right away or something, or have a 500k house, but you can pay off your loans relatively quickly with a bit of planning and a bit of being slightly frugile. (Just don't be too frugile, you do need to treat yourself, or you will get burnt out fast 😉)
 
OSUdoc08 said:
3. OSU-COM: $44,500 a year for an out of state student in loans. I will have $175,000 in debt when I graduate. This is also the mean salary for emergency medicine physicians, which is what I plan to do. You get 10 years to pay this off, so I will only lost 10% of my income. No big deal there.
Click to expand...

Music to my ears! Really though, I haven't spoken to one doctor that has said that loans are a reason not to go.
 
KnishTix said:
A mole removed by a DO dermo is cheaper than one removed by an MD dermo? 😕
A pimple-popper will get paid the same by the insurance, or hopeully MC/Visa/Benjamins 🙂 , whether he be osteopathic or allopathic PHYSICIAN.

What "research" are you talking about? 😕 i volunteered in the ER for a while and know for a fact that in that hospital the ER docs get the same 220, MD or DO. Seriously NO ONE knows or cares as long as you fix the damn things correctly.

P.S. DO's can make alot more in primary care and FEW(sports, physiatry) specialties by perfomring(and billing-insurance covers this) osteopathic manipulation.

MIZZODUDE, do a search i dont do them that much and even I know that this topic is extensively covered.
Click to expand...

I was directing it towards MIZZODUDE. I told him to do research on osteopathic medicine. Whats wrong with that? 😕
 
armydoc, i am sorry i read your line wrong. i thought it had a ? after the 2nd sentence. like sarcasm.
 
KnishTix said:
armydoc, i am sorry i read your line wrong. i thought it had a ? after the 2nd sentence. like sarcasm.
Click to expand...

😉 🙂 😀
 
ARMYDOC, are you actually an army doctor? if yes are done with your medical school and/or residency? DO or MD?

I am interested in this b/c i know they pay for your schooling, and you have to contribute the years later.

I wouldnt mind working in the army/navy/airforce, but after residency i want to stay around NYC, can i be guaranteed that?
 
mizzoudude said:
First, I want to say that I am not trying to start another M.D. vs. D.O. war on the board. I am just very curious...

I am a masters student trying to make up for my less than stellar performance as an undergrad (3.2 GPA) and 25 MCAT (plan to take the MCAT again in April 2006)

I was wondering how hard would it be for a DO to get a residency in something like dermatology? I know it is tough for MD students themselves...what about DOs? Is it a little easier since they have their own residency spots they can apply to on top of MD spots?

Also, how successful are D.O.'s in getting jobs? Do they get paid the same as MDs? Are DOs successful?

And to all of you who are going to schools such as AZCOM, TUCOM, OSUCOM, etc. How the hell are you paying for the living and school? Approx. 50K a year if I am not mistaken? Also, will a DO after finishing residency be able to pay off those loans without too much trouble? That is like buying a damn house! I am just saying...I do not want to graduate with 200K in student loans and not be able to pay them off...
Click to expand...
do a search...........
 
OSUdoc08 said:
3. OSU-COM: $44,500 a year for an out of state student in loans. I will have $175,000 in debt when I graduate. This is also the mean salary for emergency medicine physicians, which is what I plan to do. You get 10 years to pay this off, so I will only lost 10% of my income. No big deal there.
Click to expand...


No, this isn't right. $175,000 a year in income after federal and state taxes is around $96,000 in take-home money. You'll have roughly $78,000 take home after your student loan payments, which comprises almost 20% of your yearly income.

The poor people who end up in FP or IM and have $200k+ in loans will end up bringing home less than $50,000 a year for at least 10-15 years. This is why many people say it isn't worth it.
 
JKDMed said:
No, this isn't right. $175,000 a year in income after federal and state taxes is around $96,000 in take-home money. You'll have roughly $78,000 take home after your student loan payments, which comprises almost 20% of your yearly income.

The poor people who end up in FP or IM and have $200k+ in loans will end up bringing home less than $50,000 a year for at least 10-15 years. This is why many people say it isn't worth it.
Click to expand...


I was curious about the above post, so I did some checking around. This is for Illinois (Champaign - using their average ER wage).

Your Estimated Paycheck Results

Bi-weekly Gross Pay $ 7,410.15
Federal Withholding $ 1,612.56
Social Security $ 459.43
Medicare $ 107.45
Illinois $ 222.30

Calculation Based On

Gross Pay (Annually) $ 192,664.00
Pay Frequency Bi-weekly
Federal Filing Status Married
# of Federal Exemptions 0
Additional Federal Withholding $ 0.00
State Illinois
Exemptions 0
Filing Status Married Filing Jointly
Additional State Withholding $ 0.00


This was for married, filling jointly, however, if your single add about 250/mo to federal and minimal to others. If you have kids it'll be significantly less. Also, you can get reduction for educational loans interest that you are paying, which is a significant amount. I bet if you knew what you were doing or paid someone a couple hundred bucks, you could get down to paying less than 35k/yr in taxes until that loan is gone, unless you have kids, then it could be even less.

Moral of the story is, hire some accounting nerd, have kids and enjoy being a doctor 🙂

-TJ

.:edit:.

This doesn't include any bonuses, which can be very significant as a physician in the end. Most physicians if they plan correctly early financially can be very successful in the end, but don't worry about the money, it makes your hair fall out. Just believe it'll be taken care of with some smart planning in the end.
 
I didn't mean to come off as being offensive of being disrespectful to the D.O. profession. I am just trying to learn more.

I don't want to invest 200K in my education and later figure out that it is going to be really tough to pay it back. I come from a poor family and my parents will not be helping me out in paying for my education. That is why I wanted to make sure that it would work out.

Also, my stats as an undergrad are a 3.2 and a 25 on the MCAT. I am doing a masters program where I plan to get a 3.8+ and retake the MCAT in april 2006. Do you guys think I have a shot if I do better on the MCAT and maintain this goal of a good GPA? Also, I have great work experiences as a house orderly, neuro tech, and am currently an ER phlebotomist.

Wow...that number crunching with biweekly salaries was great. After all the deductions the pay was around $5000 every week...meaning $10K a month and $120K a year. You can probably pay your debt off in 10 years easily with this salary.
It is just that perhaps I go to a school where it does cost $200-250K by the end...wanted to make sure that I would be able to pay it off...just seems like a large overwhelming number

Thanks for all the posts.
 
JKDMed said:
No, this isn't right. $175,000 a year in income after federal and state taxes is around $96,000 in take-home money. You'll have roughly $78,000 take home after your student loan payments, which comprises almost 20% of your yearly income.

The poor people who end up in FP or IM and have $200k+ in loans will end up bringing home less than $50,000 a year for at least 10-15 years. This is why many people say it isn't worth it.
Click to expand...
Not true for places like Okla, and Texas. PCP's make big bucks where I'm from and usually pay off the loans in two years.
 
mizzoudude said:
First, I want to say that I am not trying to start another M.D. vs. D.O. war on the board. I am just very curious...

I am a masters student trying to make up for my less than stellar performance as an undergrad (3.2 GPA) and 25 MCAT (plan to take the MCAT again in April 2006)

I was wondering how hard would it be for a DO to get a residency in something like dermatology? I know it is tough for MD students themselves...what about DOs? Is it a little easier since they have their own residency spots they can apply to on top of MD spots?

Also, how successful are D.O.'s in getting jobs? Do they get paid the same as MDs? Are DOs successful?

And to all of you who are going to schools such as AZCOM, TUCOM, OSUCOM, etc. How the hell are you paying for the living and school? Approx. 50K a year if I am not mistaken? Also, will a DO after finishing residency be able to pay off those loans without too much trouble? That is like buying a damn house! I am just saying...I do not want to graduate with 200K in student loans and not be able to pay them off...
Click to expand...

Consider this.
My school charges almost $34K, $37K, $40K and $43K for tuition for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th year. Taking out $40K a year in Stafford Loans ($8K sub and $32K unsub loans per year) and private loans of $15K and year. I would be incurr $235K in debt (including interest for federal unsub loans at 5% and private loans at 6% for just 4 years, and including pricinpal of subsidized stafford loans). Consolidating on graduation and assuming I can make payments during my residency (highly unlikely, because it will cost me $2500 per month, for 10 years, at the interest rate of 5%). Going to primary care, it looked scary to me to make $130K salary, and make $2500 payment toward my student loans. I don't want to pay ridiculous amount in interest payment by spreading my payment to 30 years. (for 10 year loan of $235K, 5% interest, my total payments would be $300K compared to $455K for 30 year loan payment). When people say "In Grand Scheme of Things, it doesn't matter how much you borrow", well it does. How much student loans you have will dictate lots of other financial decision that you make in life, whether buying a home or a luxury SUV, and it does affect how much you can ultimately afford. And of course, whether you go for MD or DO school, it still appies. So do your finance homework before you go to medical school.
 
But do you really need a luxury SUV? I plan on going into PCP of some sort, and I'd be more than happy with a 3 bedroom house and a $25K car. The rest is going to go to loans and then savings, so I can retire at 55.
 
I just got off the phone with a friend who goes to CMS (Chicago Medical School) which is a private MD school...the tuition is 37K and he spends approx. 20K on personal living stuff ($1000/mo apartment close to the school, etc.)..he is taking approx. 57K in loans every year. He will end up with 230K + in loans.

He says that he will easily pay it back once he starts working...over the course of 10-15 years. He is confident and he says many kids are doing this...

So I am a little more confident that I can achieve the same...even if I go to D.O. school...
 
JKDMed said:
No, this isn't right. $175,000 a year in income after federal and state taxes is around $96,000 in take-home money. You'll have roughly $78,000 take home after your student loan payments, which comprises almost 20% of your yearly income.

The poor people who end up in FP or IM and have $200k+ in loans will end up bringing home less than $50,000 a year for at least 10-15 years. This is why many people say it isn't worth it.
Click to expand...

10-15 years? Nope.

You can pay it back in a few years.

$50,000? Nope. Way more than that.
 
I thought that taxes were typically around 30% of the gross?
 
Shodddy18 said:
I thought that taxes were typically around 30% of the gross?
Click to expand...


I believe most physicians will fall around 27% and then of course you have other withholdings, such as; malpractice, state taxes, social security, etc....
 
I dont see the problem here. I assume most people are going in to medicine b/c the like it and are interested in it. The pay is good period. what other proffession are you maing that much, loans or no loans. If you got for most masters programs, you spend are there for 2-3 years. almost like med school. You come out making around 50K after. After med school in residency you are making around 40K, almost the same. After 3-5 years of residency you are making at least 90K-200K. Your friend with a masters and raises will be making around 60,70,80, whatever. You are still making good money.
Also, medicine is VERY stable, the world situation, now, might suck. Some unstable country can get nukes and wipe out half of the US, wall street will be unemploeyd, but you will ALWAYS need physicians. MD or DO, same thing.
Dont go into medicine JUST for the money. The money IS there, PERIOD. Go into if you like it, otherwise you will be working your whole life doing something you hate.

Flying to interview in 8 hours, goto go.
 
KnishTix said:
I dont see the problem here. I assume most people are going in to medicine b/c the like it and are interested in it. The pay is good period. what other proffession are you maing that much, loans or no loans. If you got for most masters programs, you spend are there for 2-3 years. almost like med school. You come out making around 50K after. After med school in residency you are making around 40K, almost the same. After 3-5 years of residency you are making at least 90K-200K. Your friend with a masters and raises will be making around 60,70,80, whatever. You are still making good money.
Also, medicine is VERY stable, the world situation, now, might suck. Some unstable country can get nukes and wipe out half of the US, wall street will be unemploeyd, but you will ALWAYS need physicians. MD or DO, same thing.
Dont go into medicine JUST for the money. The money IS there, PERIOD. Go into if you like it, otherwise you will be working your whole life doing something you hate.

Flying to interview in 8 hours, goto go.
Click to expand...
Where's your interview?
 
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