General Surgery PGY-2 Contract non-renewal

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jason.lafluer said:
I've heart the job market could possibly be, well,...****ty.
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well, the job market is really ****ty for someone who completes only 1 year of general surgery...
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Derm path sounds chill, that's why I mentioned it.
You could do forensics and probably work in the coroner's office though, if interested.
Anything else is probably purely academic, admittedly though I don't know a whole lot.
 
OP
I am joining this thread late, reading many pages, hope I did not miss the answer to my question to you, if so , please excuse me.
First, I am sorry for your trouble, it must be giving you lots of heartache.
1. Earlier in the post you mentioned something about getting back into the match this year, although the deadline was near the end or over. Did you have any success with that? Or if you did get in on time, can you SOAP?
2. I don't know where you went to Medical School, you obviously graduated, have you thought of contacting one of the PD's at your medical school for a residency there? I don't know if you can start up in the 2nd year, but might have to start at the beginning in the 1st year. There must have been some one or an advocate for lack of a better term, on your side, who wants to help you or who can help you and guide you.
Best of luck.
 
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If they can label you with a "learning disability" they can absolve themselves of any responsibility for "poor teaching". If it's you, it isn't them.
 
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DokterMom said:
If they can label you with a "learning disability" they can absolve themselves of any responsibility for "poor teaching". If it's you, it isn't them.
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You make a good point. Isn't another way to spin that argument that they can't discriminate against "disabilities"?
 
Doctor4Life1769 said:
Derm path sounds chill, that's why I mentioned it.
You could do forensics and probably work in the coroner's office though, if interested.
Anything else is probably purely academic, admittedly though I don't know a whole lot.
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Can I moonlight after I pass step 3?
 
jason.lafluer said:
You make a good point. Isn't another way to spin that argument that they can't discriminate against "disabilities"?
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While they may not be able to say the disability is the reason for getting fired, they can find 10 million other reasons to fire you. Plus you get the label as a physician for the rest of your career. Don't let them do that to you.

Have you accepted that Pathology spot yet?
 
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ThoracicGuy said:
While they may not be able to say the disability is the reason for getting fired, they can find 10 million other reasons to fire you. Plus you get the label as a physician for the rest of your career. Don't let them do that to you.

Have you accepted that Pathology spot yet?
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I hope so. He should have accepted it right when it was offered.
 
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jason.lafluer said:
You make a good point. Isn't another way to spin that argument that they can't discriminate against "disabilities"?
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You can't discriminate against someone on the basis of their disability. BUT it is perfectly permissible for an employer to fire an employee due to an inability to perform the tasks required in the job. That's what they're saying, so a "disability" wouldn't help you here.
 
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jason.lafluer said:
So I can't moonlight without being part of a residency program?
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You can't moonlight without an unrestricted license, which is something you wouldn't have without passing step 3. Plus, you're gonna need letters of recommendations - who is gonna write you one? Your former PD?
 
jason.lafluer said:
So I can't moonlight without being part of a residency program?
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why are you worrying about moonlighting?? you haven't finished an intern year...and you are being dismissed because you can't take care of pts WITH supervision...who the heck do you think is going to let you take care of pts withOUT supervision???

i just don't get it...you haven't talked to the previous intern who has successfully transitioned from a dismissal to another SURGERY residency...then , THEN you ACTUALLY had an offer for a categorical residency program and you did NOT say yes right away...are you thinking somehow you current program is going to MAGICALLY decide that they were wrong, that they are gonna keep you and you are going to graduate from this surgery program??? As Cher said in Moonstruck....SNAP OUT OF IT!!!
 
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rokshana said:
why are you worrying about moonlighting?? you haven't finished an intern year...and you are being dismissed because you can't take care of pts WITH supervision...who the heck do you think is going to let you take care of pts withOUT supervision???

i just don't get it...you haven't talked to the previous intern who has successfully transitioned from a dismissal to another SURGERY residency...then , THEN you ACTUALLY had an offer for a categorical residency program and you did NOT say yes right away...are you thinking somehow you current program is going to MAGICALLY decide that they were wrong, that they are gonna keep you and you are going to graduate from this surgery program??? As Cher said in Moonstruck....SNAP OUT OF IT!!!
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Ugh.
... You quoted Cher.

:oops:
 
In all fairness, outside of quoting Cher, even if your now former PD is giving you intern credit (big IF) you're still missing numerous other things and you need to focus on getting into another residency - and by that I mean calling Monday and saying "done deal" before they move on.
 
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I'm not sure it this is final. I told a senior resident about this and he doesn't think it's final. He's going to talk to the PD tomorrow and he also advised me to talk some faculty and have them advocate for me.
 
rokshana said:
and talk to the girl...have you done so yet??
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I have to wait until after my senior resident talks with the PD. I know this situation is hard to understand, but knowing my program the way I do, I have some reasons to believe this isn't final. I have not received anything in writing yet either.
 
jason.lafluer said:
I'm not sure it this is final. I told a senior resident about this and he doesn't think it's final. He's going to talk to the PD tomorrow and he also advised me to talk some faculty and have them advocate for me.
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You're not sure what is final? Your non-renewal?
 
jason.lafluer said:
I have to wait until after my senior resident talks with the PD. I know this situation is hard to understand, but knowing my program the way I do, I have some reasons to believe this isn't final. I have not received anything in writing yet either.
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Senior resident talking with the PD?
 
jason.lafluer said:
I'm not sure it this is final. I told a senior resident about this and he doesn't think it's final. He's going to talk to the PD tomorrow and he also advised me to talk some faculty and have them advocate for me.
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Hey guys. Thanks for your interest and feedback. Here's an update. I got the non-renewal in writing today. Anyways, I'm looking forward to be moving on. I'm focusing on step 3 and making plans for July. No, I haven't taken the path position yet, I have 2 weeks to think about it. All suggestions are welcomed.
 
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jason.lafluer said:
Hey guys. Thanks for your interest and feedback. Here's an update. I got the non-renewal in writing today. ABSITE results back as well. Got 55% not great but not bad. My goal was 50%. Anyways, I'm looking forward to be moving on. I'm focusing on step 3 and making plans for July. No, I haven't taken the path position yet, I have 2 weeks to think about it. All suggestions are welcomed.
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They told you 2 weeks, but that won't stop them from looking since you didn't sign a binding contract.
 
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Moonlighting? Do you think you'd be hired with your history? Are you still working now?


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candbgirl said:
Moonlighting? Do you think you'd be hired with your history? Are you still working now?


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I brought this up previously.
Moonlighting requires having taken step 3 in order to get a license, which will require LORs. After all that, moonlighting jobs require LORs, credentialing process, etc. He's toast. It'll take in some states 3-5 months to get a license depending on where you stand. By the time he moonlights and gets some research in, it'll be time to apply for residency and he'll look like a joke candidate. Like I said, bye Felicia.
 
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jason.lafluer said:
Yes
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Then take the spot. A research year is a bad idea. You won't be able to get a moonlighting spot easily enough and you won't be able to turn that into a residency spot.

Yes, you may not be too excited about path, but it's a way to becoming a board certified physician. If you want something else afterwards, you can always apply for another field. If you don't get in, you'd have path to fall back on. Even if you want surgery, this would give a future PD a bit of comfort if you have good reviews from your path faculty.

Take the spot and become a physician or don't take it and go to a dead end. Those are the two most likely results in your situation...
 
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jason.lafluer said:
I'm not that interested in path. I'm thinking about doing research for a year and/or moonlighting.
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you won't be able to moonlight... who is gonna hire you to do what? you can't work as a hospitalist since you are a surgery intern...a house officer? with an intern year under your belt? why would anyone hire you to moonlight when they can hire someone who has actually finished a surgical residency?

its not really about your interest at this point...its about still being able to be trained to then be able to practice medicine...even if its pathology...want pt contact you can go into transfusion medicine after...or at that point maybe find a surgical program that will take you after your path residency.

what do you think doing a research year is going to do for you? it will take you out of clinical medicine and you will have even more difficulty in getting back into training the further out you are from graduation.

you have been given a GIFT...say thank you and take it!
 
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I think this guy is having issues with acceptance. As recently as Sunday he felt the non renewal wasn't final when the letter had probably been written. Maybe now that he has the official non renewal letter he'll be able to move on and grab that path position.


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candbgirl said:
I think this guy is having issues with acceptance. As recently as Sunday he felt the non renewal wasn't final when the letter had probably been written. Maybe now that he has the official non renewal letter he'll be able to move on and grab that path position.


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This is true. It's not real until it's... Real.
It can be difficult to wrap your head around the situation, take a breather, and then to be able to be okay with accepting the first offer that comes your way and not be totally sure you're up for it and if you can succeed. Honestly, I think he'd do well in pathology and without knowing too much about the program or the specialty, I haven't heard of too many folks getting canned from a path residency. My superficial impression of them is that they are super chill. Have to be smart of course, sounds like he is and minimal pt interaction. Some real $$ can be made too in the right setting.
 
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I'm an attending pathologist. I would suggest that you take the Path PGY1 position only if you know it suits your personality. You still have some time before you have to finalize your decision. May I suggest that you spend just half a day shadowing a pathologist at your hospital. You'll have a much better idea what the daily practice of pathology entails.

The job market in pathology is not great. Unlike many of our colleagues that did residencies in IM or GS, it is routine for a trainee in pathology to complete multiple fellowships after residency to secure a competitive job.
 
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