General Surgery PGY-2 Contract non-renewal

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Regardless I think he needs to take the path spot before that is gone too. From my understanding you almost have to take what you can get in this situation.
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Pollux said:
I'm an attending pathologist. I would suggest that you take the Path PGY1 position only if you know it suits your personality. You still have some time before you have to finalize your decision. May I suggest that you spend just half a day shadowing a pathologist at your hospital. You'll have a much better idea what the daily practice of pathology entails.

The job market in pathology is not great. Unlike many of our colleagues that did residencies in IM or GS, it is routine for a trainee in pathology to complete multiple fellowships after residency to secure a competitive job.
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The OP is not really in a good position to have his pick of things. What if he thinks that only surgery suits his personality? He's going to have an awfully hard time getting another spot. His PD and the Path PD have thrown him a lifesaver and he would be wise to take it. Should he do well and still wish to pursue another field, he could always apply afterwards. Then his initial surgery nonrenewal won't be as much of an issue as it would be now...
 
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While agree he should spend a little time learning about Path this guy doesn't have many other options. But you are certainly correct in advising him not to take the spot if it's not a good fit. I think he really wants to do Surgery again.
I wonder if ever called the other resident?


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This is a very difficult situation. The OP has been non-renewed in his current surgery program. I'm assuming that the OP matched into categorical surgery -- if he matched into prelim surgery and now has been told that he won't be kept for a second year, that's an entirely different problem. The concerns stated were vague but were highly concerning -- i.e. if the PD's concern was that the OP was "great" but was clumsy in the OR, then an argument could easily be made that the OP would succeed in IM, FP, or any other field. But the details we've heard are things like not taking care of patients on the floor, not being ready, etc -- those problems are generic to many fields.

The OP wants to continue in surgery -- that's very clear from their posts. It's not clear that the OP will enjoy Path at all. Doing a path year is unlikely to help with securing a new surgery spot, or IM for that matter. So the OP is stuck with a hard choice. They can take the Path spot and hope they are happy. If it works out, it's a total success for everyone. Or the OP can roll the dice and try for a spot in another field. Perhaps another PGY-1 in surgery (but likely a prelim year). Perhaps something in IM or FP. Or anesthesia. How likely that is to happen is hard to say, especially because we don't have a good picture of how competitive the OP was for surgery in the first place. But also because this is a risky path -- the OP could end up with nothing.

My advice:
1. The OP should certainly check out pathology. See if they can rotate in the path department where they are. Assuming that's where the offer is coming from, this would be a great idea.
2. If they decide not to pursue pathology because they just don't like it (which is not uncommon -- it's not for everybody), then they can take the risk of trying to find a new training spot. But it's a huge risk. If they were a super competitive candidate in the first place, someone is likely to give them a second chance. If not, getting another chance may be difficult. However, if they are otherwise a good candidate, they likely would be able to get a path spot in next year's match.
 
aProgDirector said:
This is a very difficult situation. The OP has been non-renewed in his current surgery program. I'm assuming that the OP matched into categorical surgery -- if he matched into prelim surgery and now has been told that he won't be kept for a second year, that's an entirely different problem. The concerns stated were vague but were highly concerning -- i.e. if the PD's concern was that the OP was "great" but was clumsy in the OR, then an argument could easily be made that the OP would succeed in IM, FP, or any other field. But the details we've heard are things like not taking care of patients on the floor, not being ready, etc -- those problems are generic to many fields.

The OP wants to continue in surgery -- that's very clear from their posts. It's not clear that the OP will enjoy Path at all. Doing a path year is unlikely to help with securing a new surgery spot, or IM for that matter. So the OP is stuck with a hard choice. They can take the Path spot and hope they are happy. If it works out, it's a total success for everyone. Or the OP can roll the dice and try for a spot in another field. Perhaps another PGY-1 in surgery (but likely a prelim year). Perhaps something in IM or FP. Or anesthesia. How likely that is to happen is hard to say, especially because we don't have a good picture of how competitive the OP was for surgery in the first place. But also because this is a risky path -- the OP could end up with nothing.

My advice:
1. The OP should certainly check out pathology. See if they can rotate in the path department where they are. Assuming that's where the offer is coming from, this would be a great idea.
2. If they decide not to pursue pathology because they just don't like it (which is not uncommon -- it's not for everybody), then they can take the risk of trying to find a new training spot. But it's a huge risk. If they were a super competitive candidate in the first place, someone is likely to give them a second chance. If not, getting another chance may be difficult. However, if they are otherwise a good candidate, they likely would be able to get a path spot in next year's match.
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I'm still unsure of why, given his issues, anesthesia is still being brought up.
My question for you is this: would you consider someone who could not do the surgical floor work as an intern if he was applying to your residency when you have full range of applicants via the match?
SOAP may be a small chance of success. Getting a spot outside the match entirely is his best chance.
Question for OP - has he spoke with the former surgical resident who transferred?
Has he bothered to explore other availabilities?
 
aProgDirector said:
This is a very difficult situation. The OP has been non-renewed in his current surgery program. I'm assuming that the OP matched into categorical surgery -- if he matched into prelim surgery and now has been told that he won't be kept for a second year, that's an entirely different problem. The concerns stated were vague but were highly concerning -- i.e. if the PD's concern was that the OP was "great" but was clumsy in the OR, then an argument could easily be made that the OP would succeed in IM, FP, or any other field. But the details we've heard are things like not taking care of patients on the floor, not being ready, etc -- those problems are generic to many fields.

The OP wants to continue in surgery -- that's very clear from their posts. It's not clear that the OP will enjoy Path at all. Doing a path year is unlikely to help with securing a new surgery spot, or IM for that matter. So the OP is stuck with a hard choice. They can take the Path spot and hope they are happy. If it works out, it's a total success for everyone. Or the OP can roll the dice and try for a spot in another field. Perhaps another PGY-1 in surgery (but likely a prelim year). Perhaps something in IM or FP. Or anesthesia. How likely that is to happen is hard to say, especially because we don't have a good picture of how competitive the OP was for surgery in the first place. But also because this is a risky path -- the OP could end up with nothing.

My advice:
1. The OP should certainly check out pathology. See if they can rotate in the path department where they are. Assuming that's where the offer is coming from, this would be a great idea.
2. If they decide not to pursue pathology because they just don't like it (which is not uncommon -- it's not for everybody), then they can take the risk of trying to find a new training spot. But it's a huge risk. If they were a super competitive candidate in the first place, someone is likely to give them a second chance. If not, getting another chance may be difficult. However, if they are otherwise a good candidate, they likely would be able to get a path spot in next year's match.
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It is a categorical spot, not prelim. What are your thoughts on me trying to secure a PGY-2 surgery prelim spot?
 
I've been thinking about pursuing Neurosurgery. I could find a research spot or prelim spot in an academic center.
 
jason.lafluer said:
I've been thinking about pursuing Neurosurgery. I could find a research spot or prelim spot in an academic center.
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I'm not sure which is more frustrating. Your naïveté, or our willingness to be trolled. Probably the latter.

Well played sir...well played.
 
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jason.lafluer said:
I'm not a troll. Sorry for the Neurosurgery part. I couldn't help myself.
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image.jpg
 
jason.lafluer said:
I'm not a troll. Sorry for the Neurosurgery part. I couldn't help myself.
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There is no more certain a sign that one is trolling than the statement "I'm not a troll".

The worst thing though is trying (and massively failing) to disguise your naïveté as trolling.
 
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jason.lafluer said:
It is a categorical spot, not prelim. What are your thoughts on me trying to secure a PGY-2 surgery prelim spot?
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snowball's chance in hell...your PD is not going to support you getting a pgy2spot...

you talk to the girl? you know I'm gonna ask this every time i respond to you...every.time.
 
rokshana said:
snowball's chance in hell...your PD is not going to support you getting a pgy2spot...

you talk to the girl? you know I'm gonna ask this every time i respond to you...every.time.
Click to expand...

Don't waste your time. That Q was asked at least 10-15 times with no reply.
He is trolling and doesn't need any help.
 
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jason.lafluer said:
I'm not that interested in path. I'm thinking about doing research for a year and/or moonlighting.
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I'm not interested in outpatient medicine. That doesn't stop me from going to my mother fornicating clinic days.
 
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