Georgetown SMP 2010-2011

[pleh]

i just got accepted to Georgetown, and Ive also been accepted to the SMP at EVMS and now im really confused about where to go. i know EVMS has a good linkage with their own med school, but Georgetown is an overall better school. i wanna go to a program that i know ill be admitted in to med school right after completing the program (so obviously EVMS seems like a better choice for me) but ive heard mixed reviews about their med school...any suggestions anyone, please???

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[thomyorke]

I would create 3 general classes of people. (a) Roughly 30-40% have had multiple med interviews and perhaps acceptances, (b) roughly another 30-40% perhaps a singular interview, and then (c) the remainder have had no interviews.

Group (a) typically are those who were already very borderline for MD acceptance, probably were interviewed/waitlisted the previous year, and probably don't even really need an SMP program; they would obtain entry with just a new letter of rec, or something. I'm looking at probably the 3.4gpa/33+MCAT people, with good ECs.

Group (b) typically has similar stats, but maybe not quite as good on the ECs. It also seems to depend on how broadly one applied. Applying to midwest/southern schools seems to be better nowadays than the formerly SMP-friendly schools like Drexel (that now have their own programs).

No discernible difference in group (c), other than being from Cali, which seems to predispose your application to being screwed. My guess is either letters/EC's weren't as good, or this group has a more extreme spread of GPA/MCAT (3.1/36 rather than 3.4/32). Perhaps more from this group will get interviews, but they'd pretty much have to get one within the next month as it's late in the game.

Summ: If you weren't good enough for an interview pre-SMP, then most likely the program won't help you during the year of the SMP; you'll have to wait until you have your final transcript/letter, etc.

Holla if you want to know more about the actual program, and I can give you the ground-view perspective.

I'm just a little confused because according to the numbers you have referenced, nearly everyone in this program has a 3.4/33 whereas the average GPA's listed on the site are 3.3/31. This doesn't really add up...

Also, seems to me like most of the people who are getting med interviews probably really didn't need to be in this program to begin with. When you compare the percentages that you cited with the percentage of students that the program claims to admit to medical school this really seems like a raw deal. Kind of just sounds like they take the best people (Read: High Statistics) who don't have anything else to do in the year before they will inevitably go to med school. These people then, upon (surprise!) getting into medical school, account for the majority of their "success statistics."

I'm not trying to stir things up here but this is upsetting to me, someone with numbers right around the "SMP average" 3.3/31 mark with a ridiculous amount of clinical experience (research and otherwise) and divine recommendations who has been waitlisted. My thought was that these types of programs were designed to help people who TRULY NEEDED a little bit of an extra boost rather than those with perfectly acceptable stats. A GPA of 3.4 is within 1 SD of nearly every medical school and 33 is above the average at the majority of MD schools. I, for one, would absolutely not consider the risks of an SMP with these stats...the cost-benefit analysis just doesn't add up.

Now that I'm done ranting, I'll address a previous poster who posed the question: EVMS vs. Georgetown? I think the choice is obvious. You can go to Georgetown and bust your butt against all of the overachievers with astronomical stats for a marginal chance at medical school or basically take a near automatic acceptance to a "lesser" medical program. Not saying you won't work hard at EVMS, but I would assume that it is much less competitive. In the end, an MD is an MD (from US schools that is). Isn't this what we are all working for anyways? Once you get into medical school you can write your own script. The only way this is even a debate is if you need the prestige factor to feel better about yourself. In this case, you would probably fit in nicely at Georgetown's SMP.

 

[pleh]

thnk u to thomyorke and gujudoc! in the end all that matters is the MD from the US, and thts pretty much been my only goal..and the 20 or so people is much better to compete with than the close to 200 of georgetown..the only thing i see as a pro in georgetown is the prestige, but obviously its better not to jeopardize an almost sure acceptance to a med school as compared to gtown just to chase after prestige..as u can see im just thinking out loud and still pretty confused, but i guess only time will fix that..thnx again!

 

[Haplo]

I'm just a little confused because according to the numbers you have referenced, nearly everyone in this program has a 3.4/33 whereas the average GPA's listed on the site are 3.3/31. This doesn't really add up...

Also, seems to me like most of the people who are getting med interviews probably really didn't need to be in this program to begin with. When you compare the percentages that you cited with the percentage of students that the program claims to admit to medical school this really seems like a raw deal. Kind of just sounds like they take the best people (Read: High Statistics) who don't have anything else to do in the year before they will inevitably go to med school. These people then, upon (surprise!) getting into medical school, account for the majority of their "success statistics."

I'm not trying to stir things up here but this is upsetting to me, someone with numbers right around the "SMP average" 3.3/31 mark with a ridiculous amount of clinical experience (research and otherwise) and divine recommendations who has been waitlisted. My thought was that these types of programs were designed to help people who TRULY NEEDED a little bit of an extra boost rather than those with perfectly acceptable stats. A GPA of 3.4 is within 1 SD of nearly every medical school and 33 is above the average at the majority of MD schools. I, for one, would absolutely not consider the risks of an SMP with these stats...the cost-benefit analysis just doesn't add up.

Now that I'm done ranting, I'll address a previous poster who posed the question: EVMS vs. Georgetown? I think the choice is obvious. You can go to Georgetown and bust your butt against all of the overachievers with astronomical stats for a marginal chance at medical school or basically take a near automatic acceptance to a "lesser" medical program. Not saying you won't work hard at EVMS, but I would assume that it is much less competitive. In the end, an MD is an MD (from US schools that is). Isn't this what we are all working for anyways? Once you get into medical school you can write your own script. The only way this is even a debate is if you need the prestige factor to feel better about yourself. In this case, you would probably fit in nicely at Georgetown's SMP.

Let me try to reconciliate; remember, website stuff may be old infor, and fluffed up, I'm just sharing my experience. If I think back to orientation, I believe the SMP MCAT mean for my class (2010) is essentially the same as Gtown med class of 2013, if not 0.1-0.2 higher (32 range). That listed is for class 3 years ago. Avg SMP GPA of 3.3 sounds about right; i probably slightly exaggerated the earlier figures then.

And yes, I would say that everyone I've met in the program who has already been accepted could probably have eked out an acceptance somewhere w/o the SMP, this year's class is competitive. OTOH, many of these people probably got a leg up from being in the program for various reasons (i.e. stand out more, old grad proves they still know how to study, etc). The difference is that w/o SMP, they would have eked out that acceptance off of a waitlist in June, rather thank getting in around late fall.

And even though we have that 85% acceptance figure, only HALF that (i.e. 40ish%) will get in during this cycle! The other half gets in re-apping AFTER completing the SMP. I am counting on this. This is just general infor from August orientation.

And as to linkage, well just look at past history, around 25 Physios of 180 will get in (~1/8). So yes, they are cherry-picking the best students in the program, that is obvious. Alternatively, if you cut out the slackers there are probably 130 or so quality students, then cut out the ~30 I've heard are already accepted elsewhere, and you maybe have 25 spots a group of 100 is fighting for (1/4). Odds look a little better. My honest view (and that of some roommates and friends in the program), is that SMPs exist to provide 2 things:

(1) A group of low-risk feeder students to the medical school. They have already been pre-screened to not be douchebags, and to have the work ethic and smarts to pull off good grades/Step 1/Matches, to be desperate enough to not have multiple acceptances thereby raising said schools matriculation rates - it is win-win for the school, there are a lot of meds who slack off, fail courses, cheat, or are too gunner-ish. SMPers that are these things are filtered out, leaving only those who will do well;

and (2) Revenue stream.

Let me put it this way, there are people in the program who don't seem to understand that they have taken out 60k in loans to study, not to go out, or put in a half-ass effort. If you put in the 6-10 hrs a day to study and get high passes or higher (B+ to A), you'll be fine. If you continue whatever brought you down in undergrad, then you will get passes (B), or even lower. The people who live in the library have no trouble getting A's, but if you don't want to put the effort in, don't do an SMP, it's that easy. Just trying to be helpful.

 

[Haplo]

ya, I agree, state matters a lot. I am one of those from CA you are talking about, so I understand completely. My colleagues from VA, MD, PA, MI, NY, DC, etc. ofttimes have gotten multiple interviews with those avg stats (3.3/30-32), while 3.4/35+ Californians apply to 35 schools and get no interviews (or even secondaries from UC's). Welcome to my world.

Hell, I think we have 10 from UC Berkeley, 18 from UCLA, 5 from UC Irvine, ~5 from UC San Diego, and like 6 from UC Davis -- it's basically University of California, DC Jesuit-style. So ya lmao, a quarter of the SMP is from the UC system. And not to be biased, but I believe many of the top-performers are the Californians.

And your point about high stats is very correct; many people have just been rejected inexplicably over and over, and need the program just to differentiate themselves.

 

[Haplo]

haha, thanks. Let me tell you, classes were harder for both premed prereqs, and upper div science at Cal-berkeley than medical classes are at Gtown; and the curves much harder. Getting the mean got you a C+ tyvm, 1SD+ was a B+, 1.7SD+ for an A.

Med classes are just a massive influx of infor followed by 150 or so multiple choice questions --> next class! Virtually nil experimental, so in that aspect the info is easier to digest and regurgitate than upper div or grad science. Get the mean at Gtown and you get a B (or even ~2SD below mean), 0.5SD-0.8ishSD is a B+, 0.8~1SD+ A-, 1.2SD+ or 90% is an A, so.... Med averages are typically 82-84%, with maybe a SD of 5%. SMP averages are either the same, or slightly below, but you are graded on Meds curve so wotev.

SMP = hard to get A's, easy to get B's.

 

[FutureMDer]

I am a current SMP (not from Cali) so I can give you a different insight. First, I would completely recommend this program to anyone who wants to go to medical school. I'd recommend it over all the other SMP programs because to most medical schools it's considered the best of its kind (and the first developed). Another plus side is the program is only 1 year and you take 6 actual medical school courses. The only classes you do not take from the first year course load are Genetics, Limbs and Head/Neck. However, you do have an intense Neuroanatomy/physiology course(s) so you'll basically walk into medical school seeing 85% of the material from first year. You also graduate with a Master's degree in Physiology/Biophysics which helps later on with getting a better residency. Also, those who do this program tend to score higher on their boards than the average applicant because most applicants see the material a second time wherever they go.

Overall atmosphere here can be intense. There is a lot of personal pressure to do well. The top 50% of students get interviews after the last medical class (sexual development and reproduction) around mid-march. However, you're almost a guaranteed in to get into GTown if you finish in the top 10 to 20 of the class. SMP GPA in the medical courses matters a lot to the admissions committee. It can also be intense because some people do not get interview invites while other people have had multiple invites. Hopefully if you do the program you'll be one of the people who gets in before January, however, a little over 50% of students are accepted after the program ends. The next year 85% of students are accepted, and from what I've been told, most of the 15% who do not get in choose another career/do not want to do medicine anymore.

On a good note, the people in the program are amazing (faculty and students). Don't get me wrong, there are a few SMP students everyone cannot stand, but overall, you can find a lot of great people to hang out with. The faculty here are amazing. They're dedicated to help you through the program and do whatever they can to make sure you get accepted.

In general, I'd suggest this to two types of people: The person with a low GPA or MCAT score (more GPA). These people need to prove they can handle the work load/have the drive and a program where you have 6 medical school classes best proves you can handle the work load. Second, those who have all right stats and unfortunately did not get interviews. There are a few people in this program who had very good stats (3.5ish GPA and mid-low 30's MCAT) who did not get many interviews the first year and were bombarded with interviews because they were in this program. For example, I know a kid who had only a couple of interviews last year and had close to a dozen (this is true) this year. This person also applied the first week (So apply early if you're going to do this program aka JUNE!) Either way, if you are considering doing this program make sure you're willing to study 5-8hrs a day to earn the grades needed to prove yourself. It is not easy to stay that focused throughout the program. Also, there will only be a few people who get that lucky next year, so that particular student is an exception, not the rule.

As the Cali student pointed out. You need about a 1.25 from the standard deviation to get an A in a course. However, you are now not going against a variety of undergrads, but a bunch of qualified medical students who are all very intelligent. Scoring at the top 15-10% of the medical class is not easy and your grade is dependent on how the medical students do. It's as if you were to sift the lower quality students from your pre-med classes and left the curve completely to 185ish med students who are all very qualified.

Send me a message if you have any specific questions.

 

[Doctormo24]

I'm taking my MCAT on 3/27 and right after that planning to fill out and submit the application....would I still be okay to submit everything around April? I'm just a bit worried...

 

[FutureMDer]

I'm taking my MCAT on 3/27 and right after that planning to fill out and submit the application....would I still be okay to submit everything around April? I'm just a bit worried...

Yeah you would be fine. If you have an old MCAT too I believe they accept that. Some of my friends have expired MCATs.

I applied the deadline last year and I'm here. A few of my friends were a few days before the deadline too.

Also, don't be upset if you are wait listed. They might be doing that to see what the rest of the students applying look like for the year. AKA, you still may have a chance, but right now they may only accept the people with higher stats just to be safe.

 

[Haplo]

People were accepted all the way until orientation this year, 08/03. I believe, from talking to the guy that actually processed the apps (AH), that there were one or two that got off the waitlist the day of orientation.

So, as long as you get everything in by deadlines, you stand a chance. It seems that everything is wait and see here.

 

[klmnop]

How do you find out through Georgetown? Email, mail, online app?

 

[LetGo of TheEgo]

I'm taking my MCAT on 3/27 and right after that planning to fill out and submit the application....would I still be okay to submit everything around April? I'm just a bit worried...

Don't wait until your test to submit your application. You might want to confirm, but I'm pretty sure you can submit your application without having your test grades. It will be noted as incomplete until your test scores are sent in. Once those scores are in, the SMP people begin reviewing the app. Again, you can confirm this by emailing Georgetown.

 

[GoBears1987]

ya, I agree, state matters a lot. I am one of those from CA you are talking about, so I understand completely. My colleagues from VA, MD, PA, MI, NY, DC, etc. ofttimes have gotten multiple interviews with those avg stats (3.3/30-32), while 3.4/35+ Californians apply to 35 schools and get no interviews (or even secondaries from UC's). Welcome to my world.

Hell, I think we have 10 from UC Berkeley, 18 from UCLA, 5 from UC Irvine, ~5 from UC San Diego, and like 6 from UC Davis -- it's basically University of California, DC Jesuit-style. So ya lmao, a quarter of the SMP is from the UC system. And not to be biased, but I believe many of the top-performers are the Californians.

And your point about high stats is very correct; many people have just been rejected inexplicably over and over, and need the program just to differentiate themselves.

Hey Haplo. I just got accepted into the GTown SMP program today and I happen to also be a Californian. Based on what you said before, do you suggest that I apply before I start school this August? I applied for med school this round and no luck - not even an interview. I have 3.5/31 stats. I don't know if you would consider that good enough to apply this year or should I wait first?

 

[FutureMDer]

Hey Haplo. I just got accepted into the GTown SMP program today and I happen to also be a Californian. Based on what you said before, do you suggest that I apply before I start school this August? I applied for med school this round and no luck - not even an interview. I have 3.5/31 stats. I don't know if you would consider that good enough to apply this year or should I wait first?

Agree with Guju Doc. A lot of people that applied early got interviews. You have great stats to get in so I am sure you'll get a few here and there. You may not get into a Cali school, but apply to the common schools most SMPS get into. There is a list on the website and I'd apply to a majority of the ones that have multiple acceptances to students and all the Cali schools.

http://smp.georgetown.edu/prevclass.htm

However, some students got interviews earlier than others because they did not list an adviser letter on their primary application for the Georgetown SMP Program. Students who listed the letter tended to have their application not complete until way later (December when the letters were sent out). It put those students at a disadvantage, especially ones that applied early. So for those who really need to prove themselves big time academically, I'd list the letter on your primary application because you will most likely get rejected before being granted an interview if your undergrad GPA is too low.

With your stats, I would not include that you're sending an adviser letter on the AMCAS application and just notify schools personally through calling them after you submitted your secondary. Also, just let them know you are in the program. If you had lower stats I would suggest otherwise, but if you apply super early you should get at least a few interviews before November (unless you have weak E.C., or a bad personal/secondary essays).

 

[klmnop]

Congrats to those that got in today, waitlisted myself... looking forward to hearing anytime "from now until August" .... terrific!

 

[Haplo]

Hey Haplo. I just got accepted into the GTown SMP program today and I happen to also be a Californian. Based on what you said before, do you suggest that I apply before I start school this August? I applied for med school this round and no luck - not even an interview. I have 3.5/31 stats. I don't know if you would consider that good enough to apply this year or should I wait first?

They typically recommend/require everyone in the SMP to apply the year of the program. So, your school list all depends on your goal; if you absolutely must go back to Cali, then you have a longshot during the concurrent cycle, but give it a shot this cycle regardless.

In my situation, i was pre-screened out anyways at all the UCs this year, except UCSD; but they just gave me the secondary in Jan, and now im on interview hold, so looks like a no. My understanding (and other Cali roommates), is that typically the UC's want to see how you did the whole year, the year after SMP. Or, if you can maintain a 3.8+ all year, maybe you'll get lucky (be warned, only maybe 10 people have grades this high). If you weren't good enough to get a secondary last cycle, then you probably won't get one this cycle from the UC's. However, there was some movement after people sent in winter grade updates, me included, so the data is unclear. If you got UC secondaries but no interview, the SMP might make the difference this year for you.

Just app and see what happens. My advice to you (and general medapp timeline advice):

(1) Finish/submit a primary in June, get it verified by July.

(2) App to Gtown, and SMP-friendlies, don't wait till orientation in Aug. The friendlies (off the top of my head): Creighton, EVMS, VCU, NYMC, Drexel, Commonwealth, UHSUS. Research studentdoc for more, they honestly didn't tell us diddly at orientation. For you, app to the Cali's. This should be enough, it's a crapshoot this cycle.

If you want more: go midwestern/south = Arkansas, Alabama Birm, Tulane, Arizona. Pick a few good privates (like Michigan), they might not care about one bad stat as much if you have great ECs.

(3) Finish any/every secondary before orientation, Gtown in Nov during Thanksgiving break (NOT during cardiopulmonary /sigh), UC secondaries as they arrive. I wasted 1.5-2 weeks of study time during MCP and MNE modules doing apps. This was probably the difference between A- and A for me (1-pt. under club 3X certified, ty Gtown!!). You can't afford to waste time as each point is precious.

(4) That letter problem people mentioned above, just list your SMP advisor for Gtown and Cali schools, if you get anything, it'll be late from these schools. UC's, in particular, want to see how you do before they react. For any other schools, it's up to you. If you think you'd get an early interview w/o the letter, don't list it; if not, then do list it.

Godspeed. Or UC Riverside in 2012!

 

[GoBears1987]

Thanks for all the advice you guys! It's been super helpful.

Actually one more quick question. I just got an email from the admin of the SMP that I should get more clinical experience to help strengthen my app. I am currently volunteering at a hospital but did current SMPers volunteer at a clinic during the school year? Is this advisable?

 

[Haplo]

Their advice is basically don't do anything else but class during the year. I'm going to try to shadow during break, but that's more b/c I'm gearing up for new cycle of apps. So if you need to add any ECs, try to wait till breaks.

 

[FutureMDer]

Thanks for all the advice you guys! It's been super helpful.

Actually one more quick question. I just got an email from the admin of the SMP that I should get more clinical experience to help strengthen my app. I am currently volunteering at a hospital but did current SMPers volunteer at a clinic during the school year? Is this advisable?

Yes, there is a Hoya Clinic, but you can only work it one day a year (aka not enough clinical experience).

I got a lot of clinical experience working at a free clinic where I was situated locally. Depending where you are now search for free clinics in the area and try to volunteer your time as much as possible.

Definitely do it before you get to GTown, if you are in the unlucky Cali pool you wont have much time to do these events. It's not really true, you just need to figure out fast how to study/balance your time, but don't get me wrong you cannot waste an entire day doing something.

I got involved with a local free clinic by searching free clinic (associated with the medical school closest to your area). Free clinics usually are associated with medical schools because the students are one, volunteering their time and two, training through the free clinic environment. However, non-medical/health professional involvement varies. If that fails shadow all summer or whenever you can.

 

[GoBears1987]

Yes, there is a Hoya Clinic, but you can only work it one day a year (aka not enough clinical experience).

I got a lot of clinical experience working at a free clinic where I was situated locally. Depending where you are now search for free clinics in the area and try to volunteer your time as much as possible.

Definitely do it before you get to GTown, if you are in the unlucky Cali pool you wont have much time to do these events. It's not really true, you just need to figure out fast how to study/balance your time, but don't get me wrong you cannot waste an entire day doing something.

I got involved with a local free clinic by searching free clinic (associated with the medical school closest to your area). Free clinics usually are associated with medical schools because the students are one, volunteering their time and two, training through the free clinic environment. However, non-medical/health professional involvement varies. If that fails shadow all summer or whenever you can.

I figured as much. It's just a little tough because I'm working full-time and volunteering in a hospital 7 hours a week. I've already done some intense research about free clinics in my area and most require at least a one year commitment. And unfortunately the closest associated medical school is UCSF across the bay and I don't know if I can afford to go there every week. I'm unsure if it's enough experience but I may just have to shadow like crazy after I quit my job in June.

 

[FutureMDer]

I figured as much. It's just a little tough because I'm working full-time and volunteering in a hospital 7 hours a week. I've already done some intense research about free clinics in my area and most require at least a one year commitment. And unfortunately the closest associated medical school is UCSF across the bay and I don't know if I can afford to go there every week. I'm unsure if it's enough experience but I may just have to shadow like crazy after I quit my job in June.

True, but if there is one close you can just "say" you are putting in the full year and just leave early if you have to. Sure if you give them 9-10 months it's better than nothing.

Also, the reason why they want you to do more clinical is most of the schools students are accepted to in the SMP are clinically based. It's probably something close to 75% of the schools listed by alumni are more clinical than research based. However, there are a few like the Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine that are more research oriented and tend to accept 1-2 students.

 

[Haplo]

hey guys. so i was waitlisted to the gtown smp early in feb, bc i only had a gre score, not an MCAT score.

im currentlyt signed up for the april 10th mcat date, meaning ill get my score on may 11th. and then i would update the smp and hopefully get off the waitlist.

but im not feeling ready. what would happen if i changed my mcat date to may 1st? i would get my score june 1st, so it wouldnt delay my primary amcas app, but is june too late to update the smp with my score? will my chances be a lot smaller in june than in may?

thanks so much for your help guys. +100 karma points!

You should really go to the source at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/physios/

It looks like Dr. Myers (the old SMP Director) and the current guy handling applications are answering questions.

I mean, MCAT seems to be one of their major selection factors. What it all boils down to seems to be this: they are looking for smart, driven people who maybe screwed up for a few years in undergrad; typically they measure this by getting people with good MCATs, low GPAs, that come from good Undergrad schools. I mean, it really struck me at orientation how everyone was ivy league, UC, Michigan, etc when we went thru roll-call.

So, if you feel that extra month is gonna get you points, no question take that time to study! Your goal is medical school, not the SMP; sacrificing any points for expediency is no-go. Just do your best, hand 'em your score, and there will be tons of movement May-Aug (was last year). A good proportion of my friends in the program didn't apply until late, and only got in around June-July.

 

[FutureMDer]

i wouldn't say school matters.i had a friend that came from usf. just happens that a lot of people come from such. same is true at bu.

I am going to have to agree with Haplo. I was there for the 185ish people introduction. Most (nearly 160) people were from very good schools. Only a few people I hear came from lesser known schools.

This is not to discourage people to apply, but I am guessing the SMP Program knows a student from Cornell with a 3.2 most likely is still very smart, they just were unlucky and went against insane competition. There are people from lesser known schools who are attending, but I am certain their GPA is probably not too low, or they have very impressive CV/MCAT scores.

 

[sagtig]

Hey guys! I checked my status online, and all required materials have been received, but I still haven't received an email from GTown telling me I'm complete...

anyone know if Gtown sends a complete status email, how long it generally takes to get a decision & what form it comes in?

 

[GoBears1987]

Hey guys! I checked my status online, and all required materials have been received, but I still haven't received an email from GTown telling me I'm complete...

anyone know if Gtown sends a complete status email, how long it generally takes to get a decision & what form it comes in?

I can give you my timeline if that helps.

Complete on website: Jan. 27
Received complete email: Feb 12
Accepted: Feb. 23

In the complete email they say it will take about 4 weeks to receive a decision but I got mine earlier than that. They send you a decision through email saying that they "recommended you to be accepted" and the official acceptance packet should be received in the mail two weeks later.

 

[sagtig]

Thanks!

I can give you my timeline if that helps.

Complete on website: Jan. 27
Received complete email: Feb 12
Accepted: Feb. 23

In the complete email they say it will take about 4 weeks to receive a decision but I got mine earlier than that. They send you a decision through email saying that they "recommended you to be accepted" and the official acceptance packet should be received in the mail two weeks later.

 

[Haplo]

good points by gujudoc.

 

[garyinthehouse]

So I just got my scores for the 1/30 mcat.
12PS, 12BS...7 VR 31R overall

My verbal fell 2 points from last time

I updated georgetown, but what will happen? Any clues?

 

[garyinthehouse]

Maybe they will consider that your sciences are high and your verbal was higher last time, so that you are capable of higher and can retake but may still get an acceptance. I don't know for sure though. Email Dr. Mulroney or Dr. Myers. I will pm you their emails as I got them last year.

Here's the thing guju...If I do get accepted to georgetown, when I apply to MD schools this summer, won't they screen me out because of my 7?

fml

 

[FutureMDer]

Here's the thing guju...If I do get accepted to georgetown, when I apply to MD schools this summer, won't they screen me out because of my 7?

fml

If you get accepted to Georgetown's SMP program you will NOT get screened by the medical school. All SMPs no matter there stats initially are looked at equally. If you work really hard, are in the top 20% of the class, then you have a real good shot at getting in even with the 7.

However, some schools may screen you for a 7. The minimum cutoff is usually an 8 for screening, but I know a friend who had a 7 on his VR and had a few interviews. It depends on your other stats, and in this case, the essay matters. My friend had a T but an R is still good. In addition, you have great science scores so don't be too discouraged and you did make it over the 30 mark.

I would just be smart about applying. I would eliminate schools that want 10+ on their MCAT (Duke, WashU etc.) and I would apply to a variety of schools, especially those listed on the GTown Website that you have more than one acceptance. AKA do not think you will easily get into Columbia University though a student last year got in.

As for now, wait to see what your decision is, if you are WL call Dr. Mulroney/Myers.

 

[garyinthehouse]

If you get accepted to Georgetown's SMP program you will NOT get screened by the medical school. All SMPs no matter there stats initially are looked at equally. If you work really hard, are in the top 20% of the class, then you have a real good shot at getting in even with the 7.

However, some schools may screen you for a 7. The minimum cutoff is usually an 8 for screening, but I know a friend who had a 7 on his VR and had a few interviews. It depends on your other stats, and in this case, the essay matters. My friend had a T but an R is still good. In addition, you have great science scores so don't be too discouraged and you did make it over the 30 mark.

I would just be smart about applying. I would eliminate schools that want 10+ on their MCAT (Duke, WashU etc.) and I would apply to a variety of schools, especially those listed on the GTown Website that you have more than one acceptance. AKA do not think you will easily get into Columbia University though a student last year got in.

As for now, wait to see what your decision is, if you are WL call Dr. Mulroney/Myers.

WOW thanks for your lengthy response. I really appreciate it! I emailed Dr. Mulroney and she responded in about 10 mins!! I was so excited to hear from her that quickly. She told me that she will review my application tomorrow and said I will hear back from them soon....omg...imma die right now!

 

[garyinthehouse]

People like to spread rumors like that but that is not necessarily true. No they will not screen you out necessarily. I know people who've gotten into MD schools with that verbal due to higher scores in sciences. Plus if you look at a lot of med schools ranges for a given subscore, you will find that there is a median, but that is not the start of the range. It is a median for a reason. The lowest is sometimes 5 and 6 in some cases. When my friend applied and directly asked schools, they told her that 5 was the cutoff point for verbal in terms of lowest min. to get past initial screening at many schools. I don't know about say california schools, but at many schools including Fl. I saw people get in with 7s and 6s who had high scores elsewhere. So it really depends where you are applying and other factors. If you are that concerned, ask the schools you want to apply to. you can always retake before you start the program if you get into Gtown SMP. i.e. in July or June or early August.

Again, guju, thanks for those emails. I'll keep you posted and let you know how things pan out. I'll probably start calling about 30 schools between now and June to see which schools will filter any applicant with a 7 on the VR

alas, med school applications are a pain in the rear :cry:

 

[sbugrad]

I know this is a topic discussed over and over again, but here's my bit...

I am graduating from SBU in May with a double major in biology and health science (focus on public health). My cGPA is a 3.1, but my sGPA is only a 2.78. No real excuses for the low grades other than goofing around my first two years. That being said, I have an amazing upward trend (i.e. 1.8 to 3.96).

I took the Jan. 29 MCAT and earned a 34 R.

As far as EC's:

I have been a volunteer firefighter for the past five years, rode on a volunteer ambulance for 6 months, TA'd an anatomy course, did a bit of research (no publications), and volunteer in the hospital.

Will my sGPA preclude me from the SMP? Is the SMP the right path, or should I go for a 2-year program (i.e. Tufts/BU)?

Thanks for any and all opinions!

 

[garyinthehouse]

I Just Got Accepted into GEORGETOWN'S SMP!!! I GOT THE EMAIL!!!!!

YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY!!!

I didn't realize it would happen this soon!!

 

[Haplo]

I know this is a topic discussed over and over again, but here's my bit...

I am graduating from SBU in May with a double major in biology and health science (focus on public health). My cGPA is a 3.1, but my sGPA is only a 2.78. No real excuses for the low grades other than goofing around my first two years. That being said, I have an amazing upward trend (i.e. 1.8 to 3.96).

I took the Jan. 29 MCAT and earned a 34 R.

As far as EC's:

I have been a volunteer firefighter for the past five years, rode on a volunteer ambulance for 6 months, TA'd an anatomy course, did a bit of research (no publications), and volunteer in the hospital.

Will my sGPA preclude me from the SMP? Is the SMP the right path, or should I go for a 2-year program (i.e. Tufts/BU)?

Thanks for any and all opinions!

No, your gpa's are eerily similar to mine. But, it's cumulative gpa > 3.0 which is the only cutoff, not sGPA.

And to the above poster worrying about 12/12/7 and the bad verbal score, it depends on the rest of your app. One of my friends in the SMP has a very similar MCAT spread, but got into a top-10 school in December. However, her/his gpa was around 3.5, with great EC's.

 

[garyinthehouse]

No, your gpa's are eerily similar to mine. But, it's cumulative gpa > 3.0 which is the only cutoff, not sGPA.

And to the above poster worrying about 12/12/7 and the bad verbal score, it depends on the rest of your app. One of my friends in the SMP has a very similar MCAT spread, but got into a top-10 school in December. However, her/his gpa was around 3.5, with great EC's.

Haplo, one thing that I've noticed is that everyone is totally different. Here we speak of GPA+MCAT+EC...but there are so many varieties of pre-meds. Anything's possible man, if you're willing to work at it. Chip away at it, bit by bit.

 

[garyinthehouse]

I told you that you would that the 7 will not cut you out. I had a friend with a 14 7 10 one year, and he got into a Fl. MD school. People on here might have told him he'd never get in despite the other good scores. But truth is that I've seen some get in with as low as 26 MCAT scores and they were white as white can be not URMs or disadvantaged. So yes things are possible. Since your GPAs both sGPA and overall are above 3.0 and your sciences are 12s and your overall is above 30, you would probably still get in somewhere. If you are still concerned though you can always retake. But yes, I knew you would be fine for an SMP. Congratulations. You deserve the acceptance.

Thanks Guju! I appreciate all your help!! I'll also keep you posted too!

 

[garyinthehouse]

WOW, so I went to www.archive.org to go see older versions of georgetown's website, and I was surprised that the tuition increased by approx $10,000 in three years!

It cost $33,400 for the 2007-2008 class, now it costs $43,400 for the 2010-2011 class!

That's quite a large increase

 

[BuckFMP]

WOW, so I went to www.archive.org to go see older versions of georgetown's website, and I was surprised that the tuition increased by approx $10,000 in three years!

It cost $33,400 for the 2007-2008 class, now it costs $43,400 for the 2010-2011 class!

That's quite a large increase

...and demand is still exceeding supply. Meal tickets are quite valuable.

 

[garyinthehouse]

...and demand is still exceeding supply. Meal tickets are quite valuable.

Yep, I know its supply and demand. You're 100% right. I just thought it was interesting that the cost went up that soon. It's alright, as guju said above, it's a service to put us in medschool and I'm not complaining...at least I hope so lol

 

[BuckFMP]

Yep, I know its supply and demand. You're 100% right. I just thought it was interesting that the cost went up that soon. It's alright, as guju said above, it's a service to put us in medschool and I'm not complaining...at least I hope so lol

I agree with all above and don't begrudge the program for seeking $$. What I wonder is when do they start pricing quality candidates away from the program. At that point, the integrity of the program takes a hit. I have no idea what that price point is, but maybe someday we'll have a better idea. Until then, we know and they know that the meal ticket's worth the price. It's funny that choosing your SMP is like paying for insurance coverage. The more you, the more likely you are to be covered.

 

[sbugrad]

I'm unsure if anyone on this particular forum will be able to answer this, perhaps DrJD. What I am wondering is, those people who attend the SMP but don't gain admission to medical school while at Georgetown, what do they do for the gap year? How do they deal with the year off? If you are no longer a full-time, matriculated student, don't loans come due? Tack on the SMP tuition to undergraduate loans and you've got some pretty substantial payments to make for a year...

 

[Haplo]

Haplo, one thing that I've noticed is that everyone is totally different. Here we speak of GPA+MCAT+EC...but there are so many varieties of pre-meds. Anything's possible man, if you're willing to work at it. Chip away at it, bit by bit.

I'm just getting antsy because they just posted 2 days ago the list of the class of 2009...only 107 out of 180ish have been accepted over two application cycles. I think we're just now starting to see the impact that the newer Drexel/EVMS/NYMC/other postbacs are having; they are just taking away spots that formerly would have been a GT SMP grads. It's like I used to see light at the end of the tunnel, but now realize it may just have been glare off a dead end.

Well, of course I'll keep working, but it's just frustrating not knowing what "magic" others have that makes them get interviews (not even talking about acceptance), when I have superior stats and smp grades. If I knew what that "magic" was, I would bottle it and sell it on studentdoc.

You guys have been discussing what smps who don't get in do after graduating. Well, this is a last-ditch effort program, so I suppose nothing else other than get a job, volunteer, get a new letter, etc. Only problem is that there is nothing else to fix our fatal flaw, GPA, after graduating from the smp. I know I have already been looking for university lab jobs and community service work back home, and have been planning out how to retool my next AMCAS.

__________________________________________________
LOANS: full amount this year was $67,000. This consisted of 3 loans for me: 10k from subsidized stafford, 11k from unsub stafford, 40k ish from grad plus loan. Loans disbursed half in august, half in January. They start accumulating interest the day of the disbursement (6% APR for staffords, 8% APR for grad plus). Georgetown automatically takes out tuition when loan is disbursed, and you refund the rest from GT MyAccess website.

We have to start paying these back 6 months after our last day of school, so that would be next January if we don't get into school (can then defer). They make us pay back in 10 years, and assume with the APRs that you would owe $80,000ish after 10 years with the interest. Divide that by a 10-year pay period, and I'll pretty much owe ~$660/month for 10 years.

Pretty much standard for loans. For grad students older than 24, you don't need parents info, and get better loan rates (considered independent).

 

[garyinthehouse]

I'm just getting antsy because they just posted 2 days ago the list of the class of 2009...only 107 out of 180ish have been accepted over two application cycles. I think we're just now starting to see the impact that the newer Drexel/EVMS/NYMC/other postbacs are having; they are just taking away spots that formerly would have been a GT SMP grads. It's like I used to see light at the end of the tunnel, but now realize it may just have been glare off a dead end.

Well, of course I'll keep working, but it's just frustrating not knowing what "magic" others have that makes them get interviews (not even talking about acceptance), when I have superior stats and smp grades. If I knew what that "magic" was, I would bottle it and sell it on studentdoc.

You guys have been discussing what smps who don't get in do after graduating. Well, this is a last-ditch effort program, so I suppose nothing else other than get a job, volunteer, get a new letter, etc. Only problem is that there is nothing else to fix our fatal flaw, GPA, after graduating from the smp. I know I have already been looking for university lab jobs and community service work back home, and have been planning out how to retool my next AMCAS.

__________________________________________________
LOANS: full amount this year was $67,000. This consisted of 3 loans for me: 10k from subsidized stafford, 11k from unsub stafford, 40k ish from grad plus loan. Loans disbursed half in august, half in January. They start accumulating interest the day of the disbursement (6% APR for staffords, 8% APR for grad plus). Georgetown automatically takes out tuition when loan is disbursed, and you refund the rest from GT MyAccess website.

We have to start paying these back 6 months after our last day of school, so that would be next January if we don't get into school (can then defer). They make us pay back in 10 years, and assume with the APRs that you would owe $80,000ish after 10 years with the interest. Divide that by a 10-year pay period, and I'll pretty much owe ~$660/month for 10 years.

Pretty much standard for loans. For grad students older than 24, you don't need parents info, and get better loan rates (considered independent).

So from your calculations, it looks like ~ 60% so far. This was the graduating class of 2009. Do you think GTown will update that list as the year progresses? I mean, there could be people still on the waitlist. But I feel what you're trying to say. That number should hit about 80%....

But if you look at the 2008 class, it's 120/180 which is 66% or 2/3.....
The 2007 class is about 115/180.....

Hmmm....are we absolutely sure they take in ~180 Kids? One discrepancy from the 2008 to 2009 acceptances can be explained by GTown SOM accepting ~10 less SMP students...

EDIT AGAIN* Yep, Gtown SMP takes in ~180 students. Scoured all over here and DrJD's posts on his blog

 

[vaportranz]

True but don't forget, for the classes of 2009 and before...once these students leave GT, there is no absolute guarantee that GT will find out if and where these students are accepted. Therefore, these lists are only indicative of where the acceptances were to students while in the program and any students who were accepted after the program ended and of their own free will and with their own free time decided to notify the SMP of where their acceptance was. I am not saying that very few students did this but I would not be surprised if a significant number neglected to do so. While I am sure they are all grateful to GT, out of sight out of mind. Therefore, I would suspect that these lists provide a snapshot of the majority of the acceptances but are certainly not all of the acceptances, taking every student into account. It even alludes to this fact on the SMP website.

 

[FutureMDer]

I'm just getting antsy because they just posted 2 days ago the list of the class of 2009...only 107 out of 180ish have been accepted over two application cycles. I think we're just now starting to see the impact that the newer Drexel/EVMS/NYMC/other postbacs are having; they are just taking away spots that formerly would have been a GT SMP grads. It's like I used to see light at the end of the tunnel, but now realize it may just have been glare off a dead end.

Well, of course I'll keep working, but it's just frustrating not knowing what "magic" others have that makes them get interviews (not even talking about acceptance), when I have superior stats and smp grades. If I knew what that "magic" was, I would bottle it and sell it on studentdoc.

You guys have been discussing what smps who don't get in do after graduating. Well, this is a last-ditch effort program, so I suppose nothing else other than get a job, volunteer, get a new letter, etc. Only problem is that there is nothing else to fix our fatal flaw, GPA, after graduating from the smp. I know I have already been looking for university lab jobs and community service work back home, and have been planning out how to retool my next AMCAS.

__________________________________________________
LOANS: full amount this year was $67,000. This consisted of 3 loans for me: 10k from subsidized stafford, 11k from unsub stafford, 40k ish from grad plus loan. Loans disbursed half in august, half in January. They start accumulating interest the day of the disbursement (6% APR for staffords, 8% APR for grad plus). Georgetown automatically takes out tuition when loan is disbursed, and you refund the rest from GT MyAccess website.

We have to start paying these back 6 months after our last day of school, so that would be next January if we don't get into school (can then defer). They make us pay back in 10 years, and assume with the APRs that you would owe $80,000ish after 10 years with the interest. Divide that by a 10-year pay period, and I'll pretty much owe ~$660/month for 10 years.

Pretty much standard for loans. For grad students older than 24, you don't need parents info, and get better loan rates (considered independent).

Haplo, I am not sure what SMP student you are, but I wish you the best of luck. I am sure your grades/stats will help you get where you want to go.

It is true, a lot of people have yet to hear anything. I felt for the last two weeks everywhere I went someone was talking about how they were not in, didn't interview yet etc. To be honest, I only know a handful of kids who are already accepted. I've heard claims that about 20-25% of our class is accepted, but I think that its closer to 20%, if not lower. By the end of August it will probably be around 40%.

One must keep in mind a few things. First, the applicant pool in the last 3 years has easily doubled, and unfortunately, the qualifications of the average applicant have increased significantly. If you do not believe me look at 2007's (last years AMSAR) statistics and 2008 (the new one) for the AMSAR. Many schools had a huge increase in their average MCAT scores. For example, Tufts from an average of 32 to a reported 35 in 2008 if I recall correct. The same is probably true with GPA. It might be that schools do not have to draw on SMP students anymore because they have a gluten of qualified applicants who do have the entire package and will not get accepted to medical school this year. I am sure SMP programs across the country are finding a lot of students with very good statistics are applying to their programs because they just cannot get in this year. It stinks but if one measures past trends the number of applicants to medical school is inversely proportional to the state of our economy...

In addition, I believe Haplo said he/she was from Cali. Cali is a horrible state to be from if you want to apply to medical school. Don't get me wrong, their public medical education is probably the best out there, but it is nearly impossible to get into. They also get screwed at private institutions because most private schools like to balance where there class is from. AKA, they'll set a quota to how many kids they'll take from California.

Good luck to everyone.

 

[drizzt3117]

I had a family member who attended Georgetown SMP and she was unsuccessful in applying to SMP schools during her SMP year and the subsequent one. She finally ended up attending a DO school. For reference, she had about a 3.5 in the program and had a 3.56/31 going in.

 

[klmnop]

I had a family member who attended Georgetown SMP and she was unsuccessful in applying to SMP schools during her SMP year and the subsequent one. She finally ended up attending a DO school. For reference, she had about a 3.5 in the program and had a 3.56/31 going in.

In the absence of EC information this is very confusing. How are 80% of students getting in if this isn't enough. Do you have any info on 1) EC's, 2) where they applied, and 3) if they received interviews, cause this is discouraging.

 

[drizzt3117]

In the absence of EC information this is very confusing. How are 80% of students getting in if this isn't enough. Do you have any info on 1) EC's, 2) where they applied, and 3) if they received interviews, cause this is discouraging.

Her ECs were at least above average given that she had two whole glide years to do them, she did full time research for one year and worked as a transporter for another. She applied to >30 schools and received interviews from Penn State, GW, and a couple other schools in her 3 cycles, I think she had 6-7 total MD interviews in 3 cycles.

 

[garyinthehouse]

So from reading DrJD's blog, it looks like the Gtown SMP students do not compete with one another, but instead compete with the med students. So, theoretically, every Gtown student can get an A to an A-. If that's not enough to tell medschools that you're a good candidate, I don't know what is...

Also, looking at the list of 2009 Gtown students, a couple entered the Caribbean too, and I saw 1 or 2 go into DO schools.

Hmmm......interesting