Getting a residency necessary?

[dimeadozenn]

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I am interested in working in a hospital setting as a pharmacist, is there really a need for me to get a residency.....or will I be able to get a job with out to much effort without one? I do not really even know if most places require one anyways.

 

[gwarm01]

You could do a forum search to find a million answers to the question, but the critera remains the same.

1. Where do you live?
2. Do you have an internship?
3. What are you wanting to do right out of school? (Note: "Clinical" isn't a very helpful answer)

 

[CynicalIntern]

Sorry dude, you're out of luck. Without a residency, your only hope is to float at CVS in Topeka and hope nobody questions your credentials. For a hospital job like that, you're going to need at least a PGY3 in Pyxis loading.

 

[PharmtoCS]

^ this. Unless if you don't mind moving to BFE and/or doing a PGY2 or PGY3, don't go to pharmacy school.

 

[confettiflyer]

Oh God not another one of these threads


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[Slippers]

Well I can only find up to a PGY2 on the ASHP residency directory, although I've heard that a PGY3 is a possibility of the future. Most hospital jobs require at least a PGY1 residency. You *might* be able to get a hospital staffing position without a residency if you have connections or have worked at that hospital in the past. But if you want to be a clinical/patient care area pharmacist, a residency is definitely required.

 

[gwarm01]

Well I can only find up to a PGY2 on the ASHP residency directory, although I've heard that a PGY3 is a possibility of the future. Most hospital jobs require at least a PGY1 residency. You *might* be able to get a hospital staffing position without a residency if you have connections or have worked at that hospital in the past. But if you want to be a clinical/patient care area pharmacist, a residency is definitely required.

I don't think the world can handle the smugness of a PGY3 pharmacist.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

I don't think the world can handle the smugness of a PGY3 pharmacist.

Most people can't take the smugness of PGY1 pharmacists, let alone PGY2.

 

[Niosh]

I don't think the world can handle the smugness of a PGY3 pharmacist.

 

[escanoke]

Most of the students who graduate and get offered jobs after graduating (live in a major city) in hospital are working central just checking tech work and omnicell problems, or in SPD, or chemo, compounding. Just don't expect to be on the floors approving meds


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[Its Z]

This is best answered by those who have completed a residency, those who hire hospital pharmacists, or those who actually create and manage PGY1 and PGY2, not ones speaking anecdotally without having completed a residency.

Is residency necessary to become a hospital pharmacist? No, it's not necessary. Sure, many great hospital pharmacists have not completed a residency. And some new grads are getting hired as a hospital pharmacist today. And trust me, PGY1 is not designed to take advantage of low cost pharmacist labor. It actually takes more effort and time for an institution to process and train PGY1 pharmacists. It's really a thankless endeavor, or it can be. And if a PGY1 program is only interested in getting a cheap pharmacist labor, stay away from it.

Pharmacy PGY1 should be designed to expose a pharmacist to health system pharmacy practice that 80% of hospital pharmacists are not exposed to. I will not go into details of what that 80% entails as that's a different topic. Certainly, those completing a PGY1 do not walk out of the program as an expert hospital pharmacist. Far from it. But hopefully, the program can be a stepping stone for the residents to understand and pursue advanced pharmacy practice beyond traditional hospital/retail role, if they choose to. Not every pharmacist who complete PGY1 and PGY2 will become a health system pharmacy leader. But many new and younger pharmacy leaders will have completed a PGY1 and a Masters degree.

So, no one will force you to do a residency. But for those who have completed one will have a better chance of getting in the door. The rest is up to them.

Look at this board. I think I personally know a few who completed a PGY1 and 2. I believe they're doing well today. And those who downplay residency, find out what kind of pharmacy practice they're in.

 

[gwarm01]

This is best answered by those who have completed a residency, those who hire hospital pharmacists, or those who actually create and manage PGY1 and PGY2, not ones speaking anecdotally without having completed a residency.

If anything it would make more sense for pharmacists who did not complete a residency to answer this question. They are the ones who would have experience navigating the job market without a residency, which would give them real perspective of whether it is "necessary" or not.

 

[owlegrad]

Ever heard of cognitive dissidence? Of course people who completed a residency are going to overstate their value, they have to. Same with people who did not complete a residency, whichever choice you made is the "right" one and you have a vested interest maintaining that view. Anyone seeking advice on the subject should understand the biases of who they are seeking advice from.

 

[stark3]

Like most things in life, the answer is it depends. I'm currently completing a residency because my goals are different. I want to work hospital in a major city (think LA, NYC etc). To me it's worth forgoing a year to secure my goal a little quicker.

On the other hand, if you don't care where u live and just want a hospital job, then there are plenty of people that were able to do so by moving. This is evident on this board.

 

[Its Z]

Ever heard of cognitive dissidence? Of course people who completed a residency are going to overstate their value, they have to. Same with people who did not complete a residency, whichever choice you made is the "right" one and you have a vested interest maintaining that view. Anyone seeking advice on the subject should understand the biases of who they are seeking advice from.

No never. But I know what cognitive dissonance is.

 

[Its Z]

If anything it would make more sense for pharmacists who did not complete a residency to answer this question. They are the ones who would have experience navigating the job market without a residency, which would give them real perspective of whether it is "necessary" or not.

I believe that has been done time and time again here with the vast majority of retail or non health system pharmacists who have not completed a residency saying it's not necessary.

 

[Its Z]

Of course people who completed a residency are going to overstate their value, they have to. Same with people who did not complete a residency, whichever choice you made is the "right" one and you have a vested interest maintaining that view. Anyone seeking advice on the subject should understand the biases of who they are seeking advice from.

Do you really believe this? Yet there are so many here who regret/lament their choice in pharmacy. Where does your Cognitive Dissident theory apply to those?

 

[holymolys]

If anything it would make more sense for pharmacists who did not complete a residency to answer this question. They are the ones who would have experience navigating the job market without a residency, which would give them real perspective of whether it is "necessary" or not.

I worked in a hospital x2 years while in school but had to look for a job after getting tangled up in some ridiculous red tape with my original job offer. So perhaps I can give people some probably biased insight. Background info to keep in mind my current hospital (~300 beds/city east coast) have in the past hired new grads and retail folks from time to time, half of the pharmacists does this hybrid clinical/staffing thing.

Job hunt in my area was rather difficult despite the "hospital experience", the bigger players nearby don't really give a crap about tech experience when there is a list of RPh with experience to go through first. So to me it felt like it still ultimately came down to their willingness to interview/hire a new grad, and the only challenge was getting the interview. Did not have any problems leverage my fulltime tech experience once we are at the table.

In terms of the usefulness of experiences from a residency, I have no idea what kind of stuff you'd learn from a PGY1/2, but at my job being able to handle the logistics is just as important than clinical knowledge. Was I able to apply any knowledge from school/rotations? Of course not, I didn't learn anything, I looked up all that **** on lexi comp. But everything else I was good at (pyxis, IVs, manage techs, get stuff from point A to B, etc), and that was useful enough to my department.


tl,dr: Residency looks good on CVs and depending on where you live, not having that boxed checked will result in your CV shredded.

 

[confettiflyer]

heheh, cognitive dissident.

I'm being subversive! IN MY MIND!!

 

[rxdawg21]

I did not do a residency and slowly worked my way into a clinical spot <5 years after graduating. How I did this was right place, right time, right connections. As far as the place, not a desirable area unless you are from here or have friends here, small town vibe but still has most of the major chains. I was extremely fortunate to get to where I am. If you want an elusive clinical job a residency is becoming mandatory, very few and far between clinical jobs for those that didn't do a residency and don't already work as a clinical. If you want one in a saturated area, excel at the PGY1 residency at your specific desired locale or do a PGY2. I do not agree with residencies being mandatory or making you superior as I know many that did them that can't hold the water of non-residency trained pharmacists. However, it is the price you pay with surplus and also helps separate out the better pharmacists. It is rare that in today's environment you are going to get a good clinical job in a decent market without a residency.

 

[owlegrad]

Do you really believe this? Yet there are so many here who regret/lament their choice in pharmacy. Where does your Cognitive Dissident theory apply to those?

Three replies, I am flattered!

And yeah, I think some people work hard to justify their choices while other people come to regret them. Why some people go one way and other people go another way, that I can't explain. I am not an expert by any means. But you can't say that because some people regret their choices that others don't justify them.

It's nothing to be ashamed of really, we all have biases. And I agree that it's been done countless times on this site by people who have not done a residency. That's partly the point. If you've done a residency you are more likely to think they're valuable. If you haven't you're more likely to underrate them.

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[GPharm19]

Im a P1 right now, but I worked in an inpatient pharmacy for 4 years before starting pharmacy school. I currently still hold my position. My director actually offered pharmacist positions to 2 of our P4's that were getting ready to graduate. They had been working there since their P2 year. So no residency required, just being well-liked by the pharmacy director and being an intern there for so long.

However, one poster was correct, they won't be able to be on floors doing clinical work. Not yet anyway. Just down in the main pharmacy checking orders and doing "tech" stuff, handling medstation problems, etc. Secondly, I know when hiring new pharmacists, our director only wants people that have either been in the hospital before or people that are coming out of a residency(The director would tell us why she would and would not hire pharmacists).

So I think if you don't do a residency, it might be difficult to get in if you don't have relationships already built with hospital managers/directors and they'll bring you on b/c they know youre smart, work hard, and you have a lot of training potential. Not impossible if you don't have either, you just have to find the right place to give you a chance. We have a couple of pharmacists at my hospital who didn't do residencies, and actually do clinical work. Big research hospitals might be hard to get into without a residency. Mine doesn't even have a Pediatric ER or trauma center, so that's prob why our director was a little more lenient(in the beginning, we're growing, so I think that's why our director is getting more strict on residencies).

 

[gwarm01]

However, one poster was correct, they won't be able to be on floors doing clinical work. Not yet anyway. Just down in the main pharmacy checking orders and doing "tech" stuff, handling medstation problems, etc.

Luckily you don't have to be on the floors to do clinical work. Every time you verify an order you are given an opportunity to review the patient's profile and make any sort of clinical intervention that you wish. Anyone who is "just" checking orders is doing a disservice to their patients and themselves.

 

[GPharm19]

Luckily you don't have to be on the floors to do clinical work. Every time you verify an order you are given an opportunity to review the patient's profile and make any sort of clinical intervention that you wish. Anyone who is "just" checking orders is doing a disservice to their patients and themselves.

Thats true. You do have to do clinical interventions with doses and substitutions. You'll have to make dosing decisions based on INRs, Vanc Troughs, heparin, epogen, and you'll be expected to rush to codes. So you'll have to be able to read lab results and patient profiles. You'll get calls on med allergies, side effects, contraindications from nurses and doctors. There's a lot involved too in staying in the main pharmacy. In my hospital, they call them staff pharmacists, and the ones that are on the patient floors are called Clinical Pharmacists. I guess because the floor pharmacists visit with patients, meet with the doctors, and are more directly involved with their medications. We normally keep them in PICU, ER, and our critcal care areas, so the staff pharmacist doesn't deal with those areas that much(they're usually our board certified Pharmacists as well). I think the clinical pharmacists have the best job, b/c they have a great schedule, usually 9-5, and they aren't bombarded with phone calls and techinical stuff all day that you get in the main pharmacy

 

[Digsbe]

Maybe residency will be good for those of us in community pharmacy. When half of new grads do a PGY1 and expect to work hospital/clinical when they finish the retail job market may not be as saturated? Just thinking. Not sure if retail managers would hire a PGY1 hospital trained pharmacist as they'd jump ship the second they got hired on somewhere else.