getting above a 40: how is it done?

[thebillsfan]

---

Members don't see this ad.

this might seem like a stupid question because its such a basic one. but the answer i'm looking for is not "hard work." i'm wondering if there's something more specific than that. ive read on some other threads that a lot of people think its luck. while i can see that possibility, i also don't buy it. there's got to be something that makes the difference between someone that gets a 38 and someone that gets a 42 and i dont think its just hard work. i think its the way people approach the test. so what is that approach?

alternatively, i could be completely wrong and it really is all luck. 😛

 

[futIDdoc]

this might seem like a stupid question because its such a basic one. but the answer i'm looking for is not "hard work." i'm wondering if there's something more specific than that. ive read on some other threads that a lot of people think its luck. while i can see that possibility, i also don't buy it. there's got to be something that makes the difference between someone that gets a 38 and someone that gets a 42 and i dont think its just hard work. i think its the way people approach the test. so what is that approach?

alternatively, i could be completely wrong and it really is all luck. 😛

the difference between 38 and 42 is luck.

 

[yousafob]

Its true that is luck once you start scoring 38+. The difference between a 38-42 could be as few as getting 5 more questions correct.

 

[Mahou]

to get to a 38 you have to be pretty brilliant and then to get to a 42 you have to have luck

 

[ksmi117]

Yes, those scores are usually questions away, but I can almost guarantee that all people who get 38+ did well because they are great test-takers. Not only do they learn the material, they know how to apply it all to the passages. That's really the key to the test. Memorizing is only part of the test. Those super high scores are the result of logic and critical thinking skills when dissecting the passages.

 

[johnj7]

luck, yes of course
but i bet if you looked at the majority of 40+, i bet they took a hell of a lot of practice tests.
intuition and test "smarts" come naturally with more practice

do problems till you're dead tired and your brain bleeds 🙂

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

this might seem like a stupid question because its such a basic one. but the answer i'm looking for is not "hard work." i'm wondering if there's something more specific than that. ive read on some other threads that a lot of people think its luck. while i can see that possibility, i also don't buy it. there's got to be something that makes the difference between someone that gets a 38 and someone that gets a 42 and i dont think its just hard work. i think its the way people approach the test. so what is that approach?

alternatively, i could be completely wrong and it really is all luck. 😛

Both the MCAT and the Step 1 are very steeply curved. It's nothing like a regular school exam or the SAT. The difference between a 15 and a 14 on verbal is roughly 1 or 2 questions, and between a 14 and a 13 just another 1 or 2 questions. Do you really think that the person who got 60 questions right on the verbal (a 15) is THAT much more intelligent than one who got 56 (which I think corresponds to a 13)? The physical and biological are slightly less steep because there are more questions, but still pretty bad.

I know that there was definitely something involved in my 40 that had nothing to do with me or my preparation, abilities, etc.

If you are getting 37+ consistently on good practice exams, you just may get a 40+ score on the real thing.

 

[EkramVahsedi86]

Ahhh, I wish I could have posted sooner. Well, I have studied and took this MCAT thing very seriously and I wholly expect to make a 41. You have to be a very good introvert and know how to control your variables and how not to give up. Most of these people who are giving you advice, aren't really answering your question. Imagine climbing a mountain twice as tall as Mt. Everest. You have to be able to be the type of person to achieve that goal, if that mountain existed. I have seriously put more effort into my upcoming MCAT score than anything in my life. For starters, buy 10,000 sheets of paper and print everything by vihsadas. Secondy, set your homepage to SDN and a 2nd tab open to your planning and a 3rd tab open to 'meta-planning'. Most people don't spend enough time pre-planning. They just treat the mcat like an mcat.

My advice, treat the mcat like a mountain twice as tall as everest. If you want some of my advice, send me a pm.

 

[JJMrK]

It probably helps if you have prior knowledge about the particular experiment/apparatus that's being described in the passage. That may come down to luck.

The difference between a 38 and a 41 is pretty small percentage-wise.

 

[EkramVahsedi86]

It probably helps if you have prior knowledge about the particular experiment/apparatus that's being described in the passage. That may come down to luck.

The difference between a 38 and a 41 is pretty small percentage-wise.

And that's why most people find it pointless to shave off an extra 1-2 mistakes per passage, because its only the diference between a 38 and 41.

Maybe you peoplez dont understand the drive that LSAT takers go through to go over the 170 "hurdle". When you are in the tail of a guassian distribution, its extremely easy to move up in percentage! Its like the olympic sprinter, once he is sprinting at the 1-in-10,000 level, its relatively easy to shave off a millisecond and move into the 1-in-100,000 level.

Same way to look at talking yourself down, but I look at the flipside of the argument. Once you are close to 40, its not harder to eliminate your final 1-2 leaks of your mcat-game.

Oh wellz, and btw i'm not talking about scoring 38's on practice tests and a 41 on the real mcat, I'm talking about scoring over 40 in at least 3 outta 10 of the real AAMC's first try timed condition.

 

[EkramVahsedi86]

I've been getting requests to say the same thing, so I just learned where my sent folder was. Here are my 2 best responses.

Here you guys go, if I get a 41, I'll copy this into the 40+ study habits. If not, at least you guys can know the heart of an over-achiever. Enjoy!

Hey,

I was reading your posts about this and your attitude intrigued me. I took the MCAT before and did not study for more than a week. I took two practice exams. I ended up with a 27. I would love to get a 40 or higher. The thing is, I'm extremely lazy. I've never really worked that hard for anything in my life, so I'm finding it hard to exert myself in a way necessary to do well on this exam. I know I have the raw intelligence to score above a 40 but I just don't have the drive. In your posts you said you've never worked harder on anything in your life--do you have any advice for me?

Well how is this for starters: only someone like you can approach it logically. Your are probably like me--rational. If you are watching your second favorite show on Tv, and the remote is out of batteries, and your first favorite show is on Tv, and is 5% better, you won't fill the batteries unless it is "worth it.".

All you have to do is understand why it is "worth it" and that's the secret. My story is different than your story and what works for me, won't necessarily work for you. I took unthinkable measures in order to pile on the "worth-it-edness", and luckily it worked! It sounds really bone-headed but I put myself into a situation where anything less than 40 is intolerable!

I have an undergrad in business, and my favorite book is the 80/20 principle. Chances are you probably won't even go out to a library and read it, or even read the talk page on wikipedia behind the article...

Plus I gotta admit, I want to ace the MCAT because that is my climbing Mt Everest. I'm 24 and was on Doogie-Howswer track at age 18, but stumbled. Now, if I can get a 40+ on the mcat, I'll be more likely to do other things which will be colinear with my broader life goals.

안녕히 가세요

 

[0Complications]

I'm thinking we have a narcissist on our hands...

 

[EkramVahsedi86]

I'm thinking we have a narcissist on our hands...

Yes, even my statistics say about 0.2 posts per day. I know the DSM, I score plenty of the items listed to qualify narcissm, so I hope no one is offended. I'm not trolling, and will stick to posting on generalized threads.

Thank you

 

[sadiehawkins]

I'm thinking we have a narcissist on our hands...

That's what I was thinking.

 

[ksmi117]

Yes, even my statistics say about 0.2 posts per day. I know the DSM, I score plenty of the items listed to qualify narcissm, so I hope no one is offended. I'm not trolling, and will stick to posting on generalized threads.

Thank you

Wait, have you taken the MCAT?? I'm really confused...

 

[EkramVahsedi86]

I have not taken the MCAT. I'm taking it in August 2009, but I might push it back since I haven't taken my pre-req science classes (will worry about that later--it is school specific). I already have my BA so I can't really take them my senior year like normal college students. I didn't decide firmly on med-school until 2 years ago. I'm a non-trad because I majored in business without a single science class on my transcript.

 

[StIGMA]

.

 

[MD2BEEE]

I have not taken the MCAT. I'm taking it in August 2009, but I might push it back since I haven't taken my pre-req science classes (will worry about that later--it is school specific).

For someone who wants to score a 40+, you sure have things backwards with your pre-req's...

BTW, 4 chems, 2 bio's, and 2 physics are not school specific. Maybe a biochem or cell molec class here or there are, but for the most part, science pre-req's are exactly as they are called... "req's."

Here's my advice to you for beginning your hike up the mountain... enroll in a premed post-baccalaureate program, complete your pre-req's, and then take the MCAT.

 

[EkramVahsedi86]

For someone who wants to score a 40+, you sure have things backwards with your pre-req's...

BTW, 4 chems, 2 bio's, and 2 physics are not school specific. Maybe a biochem or cell molec class here or there are, but for the most part, science pre-req's are exactly as they are called... "req's."

Here's my advice to you for beginning your hike up the mountain... enroll in a premed post-baccalaureate program, complete your pre-req's, and then take the MCAT.

Thanks for the kind input. I almost thought next time I hit refresh on this page, it would say something about me being banned.

Yeah, I don't know if it will look better on my applications if they see that I took the MCAT before doing some community college pre-reqs. I have done some open courseware and have discovered my learning niche. I might be over analyzing, but I don't have a science GPA, only a cumulative gpa of 3.7

I'm in a wierd spot because I have the option of doing the pre-med bost bacc deal (which sounds intimidating) or the community college route (which sounds wasteful--I really like learning about this stuff).

I want to see where I stand on my MCAT score, to see if it is high enough to get into a school with stellar research focus. If not, then how my prereqs are completed won't matter as much.

If I have to wait a year and start med school late, I already have a year's list of stuff to do: get my CFA, learn a foreign language, prepare for the usmle's, spend time with family, etc...

I know its absurd, but I want to do the MCAT goal first, then get into medschool secondly.

 

[ksmi117]

Thanks for the kind input. I almost thought next time I hit refresh on this page, it would say something about me being banned.

Yeah, I don't know if it will look better on my applications if they see that I took the MCAT before doing some community college pre-reqs. I have done some open courseware and have discovered my learning niche. I might be over analyzing, but I don't have a science GPA, only a cumulative gpa of 3.7

I'm in a wierd spot because I have the option of doing the pre-med bost bacc deal (which sounds intimidating) or the community college route (which sounds wasteful--I really like learning about this stuff).

I want to see where I stand on my MCAT score, to see if it is high enough to get into a school with stellar research focus. If not, then how my prereqs are completed won't matter as much.

If I have to wait a year and start med school late, I already have a year's list of stuff to do: get my CFA, learn a foreign language, prepare for the usmle's, spend time with family, etc...

I know its absurd, but I want to do the MCAT goal first, then get into medschool secondly.

I really don't think that med schools will even notice whether you took the MCAT before you took the pre-reqs. And if you want to get a 40, you need to know the stuff. Sure you could teach yourself. But MCAT books are meant for review. If you haven't learned the stuff in class, you'll be missing a lot of the theory and background stuff.

I admire the fact that you want to get 40+ on the MCAT, but you've got to be smart about it. It's not an easy task. Take your pre-reqs first.

 

[kwokkit]

I know its absurd, but I want to do the MCAT goal first, then get into medschool secondly.

It's interesting that you are treating the MCAT as an isolated mountain to climb, but keep in mind that the ONLY function of doing well on the MCAT is to get you into med school. That's it. A perfect score (45T) for you should be any score that will get you into the school(s) of your choice.

 

[Ailleurs]

what in the world? i'm so confused. well guys if he wants to ace the MCAT without taking pre-reqs, that's his .. cup of tea.

but make sure you DO take the pre-reqs SOMETIME... the MCAT itself cannot be taken "in lieu of the pre-req's"

just make sure you know that lol

 

[elementals]

Ahh, another one of these threads. I have to disagree that the diff between 38-42 is luck. I took the MCAT twice. First time: 37R. Second time: 41T.

In my experience, the difference was not luck. The difference was how much ass I busted.

Case in point:

The first time I took the MCAT was Apr 2002. I took a Princeton Review course and basically didn't do any work beyond going to class and taking TPR's three practice tests.

The second time was Sept 2009. I read two entire review book sets (EK and Kaplan), took copious notes, condensed those notes, then condensed THOSE notes to "master lists" of equations and concepts. I did about 10-12 practice tests, hundreds (if not thousands) of additional practice set problems, and basically ate drank and breathed the MCAT for 6 weeks of my life.

My experience was that if you really get THAT DEEP in the MCAT, you start to kinda understand the test and what it's doing, and then you develop a sort of test-taking confidence in yourself. I honestly can't even remember half the MCAT epiphanies (LOL) I had anymore, but the most important one was this:

The MCAT isn't really testing raw knowledge. It's testing how well you can take preexisting knowledge and integrate with **** you've never seen before, under pressure, on a clock.

So to really do well, you have to know all there is to know about the background concepts... and then you have to be able to recognize when something is new (and not just something you forgot to study) AND how it fits in with the old. And that sort of thing only happens if you really really crank your ass and know the concepts backwards and forwards, and have the ability to recognize new info and the confidence to not get rattled by it.

If you don't -- then, yeah, it looks like luck. Because stuff shows up that you don't recognize, and if you're "lucky" it's stuff related to other stuff you sorta know, and if you're "unlucky" it's stuff related to other stuff that you forgot to study.

But yeah. Anyway. I'm sure SOME 40+s are luck, but I think more than a few (and maybe the majority) are just... hard hard work.

 

[InquisitiveDoc]

Ahh, another one of these threads. I have to disagree that the diff between 38-42 is luck. I took the MCAT twice. First time: 37R. Second time: 41T.

In my experience, the difference was not luck. The difference was how much ass I busted.

Case in point:

The first time I took the MCAT was Apr 2002. I took a Princeton Review course and basically didn't do any work beyond going to class and taking TPR's three practice tests.

The second time was Sept 2009. I read two entire review book sets (EK and Kaplan), took copious notes, condensed those notes, then condensed THOSE notes to "master lists" of equations and concepts. I did about 10-12 practice tests, hundreds (if not thousands) of additional practice set problems, and basically ate drank and breathed the MCAT for 6 weeks of my life.

My experience was that if you really get THAT DEEP in the MCAT, you start to kinda understand the test and what it's doing, and then you develop a sort of test-taking confidence in yourself. I honestly can't even remember half the MCAT epiphanies (LOL) I had anymore, but the most important one was this:

The MCAT isn't really testing raw knowledge. It's testing how well you can take preexisting knowledge and integrate with **** you've never seen before, under pressure, on a clock.

So to really do well, you have to know all there is to know about the background concepts... and then you have to be able to recognize when something is new (and not just something you forgot to study) AND how it fits in with the old. And that sort of thing only happens if you really really crank your ass and know the concepts backwards and forwards, and have the ability to recognize new info and the confidence to not get rattled by it.

If you don't -- then, yeah, it looks like luck. Because stuff shows up that you don't recognize, and if you're "lucky" it's stuff related to other stuff you sorta know, and if you're "unlucky" it's stuff related to other stuff that you forgot to study.

But yeah. Anyway. I'm sure SOME 40+s are luck, but I think more than a few (and maybe the majority) are just... hard hard work.

I coudn't agree with you more. Now I haven't taken the MCATs yet so its quite possible that my thoughts could be based on premature notions but I will state my opinion anyway. I do believe that hardwork, quick thinking, and strategy go a long way with this exam.

I treat it like flrting with a guy. (Sounds weird, yes I know.) But when you are in front of a guy that you really like and he says something smart or witty, you want to come back just as funny yet flirty at the same time. In order to do so, you need to be able to think in a timely fashion and say something that is not only funny and cute but also relevant to what you are talking about. In order to do that, practice on ugly guys that find you cute isn't a bad idea!!

Back on a more serious note, hard work always goes a long way. I also have a strong belief in karma. Extended time and effort spent studying for this exam is your way of putting it out into the universe that you deserve to do well. The universe then reciprocates your hard work with-most of the time-a well-deserved score. And when I say effort, I really mean understanding and comprehending the info to the point where you can conduct a TA recitation in each subject at your alma mater. Focus on the passages and extract the basic science knowledge that lies embedded in all the fluff!!

Think 40+, believe 40+, seek 40+!

 

[capn jazz]

If I have to wait a year and start med school late, I already have a year's list of stuff to do: get my CFA, learn a foreign language, prepare for the usmle's, spend time with family, etc...

Really? Really? One of your gap-year activities is going to be STUDYING FOR THE USMLE?

 

[Shawnpremed]

The MCAT isn't really testing raw knowledge. It's testing how well you can take preexisting knowledge and integrate with **** you've never seen before, under pressure, on a clock.

Thanks for your post.

Can I ask if you finished all your MCAT sections with time remaining?

And how helpful is Princeton Review's "Letter of the Day" guessing strategy for sections one doesn't finish?

 

[Karloff]

Ekram.....
You should take the MCAT first before writing any advice to anyone about how to get a 40. You have no idea what you are in for. Trust me.

 

[Karloff]

Ekram... one more thing. I don't know how hard your business classes are/were but don't make the mistake of assuming that just because you did fine (3.70 GPA) in those classes, you will do equally well in general chemistry (1 year), organic chemistry(1 year), biology(0.5 year), and physics(1 year). Organic chemistry and physics are no joke. There are alot of smart people on SDN that took those courses and has to try extra hard to get A's in all of them. I did and I can attest it wasn't a walk in the park. Again, you have no idea what you are in for. You may think in your head that those courses are no big deal and scoring a 40 on the MCAT is very realistic if your desire is there but do not underestimate the difficulty of those courses. Take the courses at a University if you can and not at a CC. Medical schools may make a distinction betweeen the two instiutions. In summary, take all your premeds, ace them if you can, take a review course, practice all tests under the sun an dbe happy if you walk away with a 34 plus. If MCAT and prerequs were that easy, then a 32 would not be 85th percentile and a 40 would not be 99.9 percentile. Most people that have taken the MCAT have taken the prerequs, aced them, studied their ass of and end up with a 30 plus/minus 2. These people are not dumb or average! It takes alot to do well on MCAT including test taking ability in general, timing, no panicking, critical thinking in stressfull situations, etc..
You better check yourself before you wreck yourself.

 

[bodonid]

For someone who wants to score a 40+, you sure have things backwards with your pre-req's...

BTW, 4 chems, 2 bio's, and 2 physics are not school specific. Maybe a biochem or cell molec class here or there are, but for the most part, science pre-req's are exactly as they are called... "req's."

Here's my advice to you for beginning your hike up the mountain... enroll in a premed post-baccalaureate program, complete your pre-req's, and then take the MCAT.

HOLY FREAKING CRAP!!!! your sig just made my week! 42lololol....

I don't know about that 38-42 equivalnce thing. I can tell you... I got a 38 and I KNOW I am incapable of a 42. I think everyone has a potential score "range", and you just have to do everything in your power to make sure you are at your best mentally -on the upswing, that is...- on the day of the exam.

 

[elementals]

And when I say effort, I really mean understanding and comprehending the info to the point where you can conduct a TA recitation in each subject at your alma mater.

Yes! That was really important too. I have (and I think many people do too) a tendency to go "WTF? I don't get this. PFFFT, EFF IT" on stuff that's really hard... but then of course that's the stuff that'll trip you up. So when I was studying I just forced myself to stop when I hit something hard and actually study it until I understood it.

Can I ask if you finished all your MCAT sections with time remaining?

And how helpful is Princeton Review's "Letter of the Day" guessing strategy for sections one doesn't finish?

I seem to remember I finished PS with like maybe 5-10 min left, VR with maybe 5-10, WS with 2 sec left (LMAO... it was literally like I typed my last word + period, and then had two seconds to scroll around and then the timer popped), and BS with maybe 3-5 min left.

I have no idea what Letter of the Day is... guess I took PR too long ago. Honestly I didn't find PR all THAT helpful. The classes were slow and boring, and I wasn't motivated enough that year to actually bust my ass outside of class 😛

 

[JJMrK]

I took the MCAT twice. First time: 37R. Second time: 41T.

Can I ask why?

 

[TheBoondocks]

Can I ask why?

He took in April 2002 and didn't apply so his score expired. It's in his original post.

 

[elementals]

Yep, what Boondocks said. Old score expired. Also, 'she' 😉

 

[TheBoondocks]

Yep, what Boondocks said. Old score expired. Also, 'she' 😉

My bad. That reminds me why I couldn't get the surgeon joke. I'll summarize.

A kid is in a car accident and his father is killed and when he gets to the hospital the surgeon says "hi son." I didn't get it, cuz his father died and then it dawned on me that his mom is a surgeon. However, most peoples views of surgeons as male would have precluded them from coming to the rational conclusion. I definitely need to pay more attention.

 

[JJMrK]

He took in April 2002 and didn't apply so his score expired. It's in his original post.

Thanks, good catch.

 

[elementals]

Dude I missed that joke when I first heard it too. I was SO puzzled. I came up with all sorts of psycho supernatural explanations *LOL*

 

[WashMe]

I think that most 40+ are luck in the sense that the score is not reproducible (unless one NEVER makes dumb mistakes); those people would likely score high thirties (36-39) on a retake. I don't think that people who have "32" potential luck into a "40," rather of the many people who have "40+" potential, only some will pull it off and most will score high 30's (36-39). Many times, the people with the lower score (for 1-2 pt. differences) missed fewer questions (if their score is more balanced).

Let's consider a balanced 39 (13,13,13) versus a balanced 42 (14,14,14).

The person with the 39 probably missed 6 (maybe 7-8) questions:

50/52 PS (maybe 49)
38/40 VR
50/52 BS (maybe 49)

The person with the 42 probably missed 3 questions:

51/52 PS
39/40 VR
51/52 BS

What seems a little messed up is how a person could score something like 12, 15, 15 (still a 42) but they could miss ~ the same number of questions (around 6-8) as the person with the balanced 39:

46/52 PS (maybe 44-45)
40/40 VR
52/52 BS

Hence, it appears easier (in that you can miss more questions overall) to get a 40+ if you are lucky enough to pull a 15 (vs. 14 or 13) on one section AND a 13-14 on another, b/c then you can miss a bunch of questions to get an 11-12 on the third section.

* note that I say lucky enough not because people who get 15's don't deserve them, but b/c MANY people who have the potential to score one or more 15's on the MCAT make 1-2 dumb mistakes and end up scoring in the 13-14 region.

These numbers are based on the number of questions missed to get a certain subscore on the average AAMC practice test.

edit: I don't know the exact number, but you can miss an obscene number of questions (I think ~13) to get a 40 if you get 10, 15, 15:

39/52 PS (or BS)
40/40 VR
52/52 BS (or PS)

However... It would take a lot of luck AND smarts to pull two 15's. I mean, you might also miss ~13 questions but get a 12, 12, 12 for a balanced 36 on most administrations (great, but not a 40):

48/52 PS
36/40 VR
47/52 BS

I got the "missing 13" estimate from the following thread, where some dude went through 7 AAMC tests and figured out how many Q's you could miss (on avg.) for a 10:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-395740.html

 

[Crisco]

Most importantly, your verbal score needs to be stably high.

Second importantly, you need to remove all your careless mistakes.
The difference between a 38 and a 42 is like getting 5 more problems right on the entire test. so it's a matter of getting very little errors