yanks26dmb

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So I just received my second waistlist (after yet another interview I thought went so well). This now puts me on waitlists at KCUMB and Western Pomona. I'm a non-trad with a lot of interview experience, on both sides of the table, so I'm just now sure why I'm getting in the door but can't close the deal. Any clue what the odds of getting in off a waitlist are? How about when you are on multiple waitlists?

My stats are 3.5sgpa/3.3cgpa/3.9 post bacc gpa/30 MCAT. Not the best ever, but should be good enough...

Only potential issues I see are:

-45 shadow hours
-160 clinical hours (via hospital volunteering).
-Took gen chem I/II online via UNE (though I took organic chem in person and got an A)

Not much I can do about the last one, but would significantly boosting these over the next 6 months make any real difference?
 

hallowmann

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Keep demonstrating interest (i.e. contact them to make it clear you are still interested along the way). DO schools do usually have decent movement, and I'd expect you have you a decent chance of getting off the waitlist.

Adding to your current ECs certainly won't hurt you.

What other schools did you apply to? Interview invites?
 
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I'm sorry to hear that @yanks26dmb :/ this is an odd and brutal process.

How are your shadowing hours allocated? Over multiple specialties?
Any EC's that you think stand out for you as a non-trad?

Just as @hallowmann said, there's movement on the wait list that is much faster than that in the MD schools, and with the acceptance deadline (Dec. 15) coming about I can guarantee there will be movement soon.

Third time's the charm with your next interview. Review what you did in the other two and see what you can do differently. I wish you the very best of luck!
 

Goro

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I'm perplexed as you are, Yanks. I suspect that your interviews are the problem, or there's a red flag in your app, like a bad LOR.

Patience is the only thing that will work here.

IF you get rejections, then it will be imperative to contact the schools for feedback (not advice) on why you were rejected. But too early to think about that yet. You might be left hanging until May/June/July even.


So I just received my second waistlist (after yet another interview I thought went so well). This now puts me on waitlists at KCUMB and Western Pomona. I'm a non-trad with a lot of interview experience, on both sides of the table, so I'm just now sure why I'm getting in the door but can't close the deal. Any clue what the odds of getting in off a waitlist are? How about when you are on multiple waitlists?

My stats are 3.5sgpa/3.3cgpa/3.9 post bacc gpa/30 MCAT. Not the best ever, but should be good enough...

Only potential issues I see are:

-45 shadow hours
-160 clinical hours (via hospital volunteering).
-Took gen chem I/II online via UNE (though I took organic chem in person and got an A)

Not much I can do about the last one, but would significantly boosting these over the next 6 months make any real difference?
 

nm825

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I'm perplexed as you are, Yanks. I suspect that your interviews are the problem, or there's a red flag in your app, like a bad LOR.

Patience is the only thing that will work here.

IF you get rejections, then it will be imperative to contact the schools for feedback (not advice) on why you were rejected. But too early to think about that yet. You might be left hanging until May/June/July even.
What would be the rational for schools wasting an ii on someone with a bad LOR?
 
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I'm perplexed as you are, Yanks. I suspect that your interviews are the problem, or there's a red flag in your app, like a bad LOR.

Patience is the only thing that will work here.

IF you get rejections, then it will be imperative to contact the schools for feedback (not advice) on why you were rejected. But too early to think about that yet. You might be left hanging until May/June/July even.
Would the red flag LOR (or whatever else) be a problem only after the interview?
 

Goro

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I suspect that it's because some schools, like mine, don't pre-screen. The wily old Admissions dean here has different prerogatives than we Faculty do. He just wants to get warm bodies into seat...we want warm, qualified bodies!!

What would be the rational for schools wasting an ii on someone with a bad LOR?
Yes. But sometimes pathologies pointed out in a bad LOR (like "not a team player") can be confirmed by the right interview questions.
Would the red flag LOR (or whatever else) be a problem only after the interview?
 

nm825

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I suspect that it's because some schools, like mine, don't pre-screen. The wily old Admissions dean here has different prerogatives than we Faculty do. He just wants to get warm bodies into seat...we want warm, qualified bodies!!
Ugh, that's brutal. To allow someone to spend several hundred dollars on plane tickets, hotel, and time off even though they're a dead-man walking seems plain wrong to me.

How common is it to not pre-screen letters?
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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You should really spend some time reflecting how you go about answering the questions the interviewers ask. Are you saying a lot of "well..." or are you directly and passionately speaking from your heart in a way that conveys to the interviewer that, YES you want to go here? Try to figure out a way to make your big 3 answers ( Why DO, Why Medicine, why here) short and powerful and convincing that you are ready for medicine and ready to be the best doctor ever.


I mean mind you that this is from my perspective on how I messed up my interviews before. My belief that I was humble came off as me being somewhat disinterested and distant.
 

Goro

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I concur, and do not know.


Ugh, that's brutal. To allow someone to spend several hundred dollars on plane tickets, hotel, and time off even though they're a dead-man walking seems plain wrong to me.

How common is it to not pre-screen letters?
 
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yanks26dmb

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I'm perplexed as you are, Yanks. I suspect that your interviews are the problem, or there's a red flag in your app, like a bad LOR.

Patience is the only thing that will work here.

IF you get rejections, then it will be imperative to contact the schools for feedback (not advice) on why you were rejected. But too early to think about that yet. You might be left hanging until May/June/July even.
I don't even know how to improve if I can't figure out what a potential red flag may be. Sure, I have poor grades from 10+ years ago...but is that really what's getting me waitlisted? Wouldn't that just get me rejected before wasting everyone's time?

What can I really do about letters of recommendation? Do I just keep taking classes from random professors, ask for letters, and just hope they are better than the last? As you know, I'm a non-trad and I've been taking classes at my local community colleges while working full time. These professors don't really have a shot to get a deep look at me over the course of one semester...but I've got to work with what I have available to me. I know my physician letters are solid as I have a great relationship with both of my physicians I shadow.

Would a school really offer a candidate an interview (despite a poor LOR) then waitlist them because of that LOR? Seems like a waste of an interview spot.

Based on my clinical hours (160) and shadow hours (45) do you think this might be what's holding me back? Would focusing on this and really bumping these numbers make a difference a) to get me off a waitlist or b) as a re-applicant next year?

Again, my MCAT score is above average of nearly every DO school, my sgpa is at average, and my cgpa is a hair below most...though I've got a great post-bacc gpa. I'm well-balanced, well-spoken, have lots of interview experience, and have leadership experience....I just don't get it and right now it feels as though Ill never get in anywhere. So disheartening...
 
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yanks26dmb

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Further....maybe my "why medicine/why DO" answers are bad. I'm speaking from the heart, telling my interviewers what has caused me to want to pursue this field...but maybe its not good enough. I have no idea. Do I simply ditch my genuine reasons and find a better answer that will potentially be more pleasing to them?
 
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Yanks...stop being so hard on yourself. I'm non-trad as well, and am currently batting the cycle with a post-interview rejection, waitlist, and acceptance. My first two were a waitlist and a rejection, but the bottom line is that I put the effort into every interview the best I could and one of them said yes.

I saw you had Touro-Cali coming up so you aren't anywhere near done with the cycle yet. Reflect on your past two interviews (neither of which were rejections) and move on. It's only October
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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Further....maybe my "why medicine/why DO" answers are bad. I'm speaking from the heart, telling my interviewers what has caused me to want to pursue this field...but maybe its not good enough. I have no idea. Do I simply ditch my genuine reasons and find a better answer that will potentially be more pleasing to them?


Don't ditch your feelings and your truth. Condense it into an arrow that will pierce into the psyche of your interviewer.

Please remember that most of your interviewers aren't going to be psychiatrists. So talking to them about your feelings freely and showing excessive emotion to them will appear incoherent and it will appear untempered.

No one wants a shiny piece of metal that can become a great sword when you can pull Excalibur in it's pristine and prime form from the rock.

Be yourself, but be the best you that you can be.
 
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hallowmann

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You should really spend some time reflecting how you go about answering the questions the interviewers ask. Are you saying a lot of "well..." or are you directly and passionately speaking from your heart in a way that conveys to the interviewer that, YES you want to go here? Try to figure out a way to make your big 3 answers ( Why DO, Why Medicine, why here) short and powerful and convincing that you are ready for medicine and ready to be the best doctor ever.


I mean mind you that this is from my perspective on how I messed up my interviews before. My belief that I was humble came off as me being somewhat disinterested and distant.
This is very good advice (as is the post above mine).

P.S. Congratulations serenade!!
 
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What can I really do about letters of recommendation? Do I just keep taking classes from random professors, ask for letters, and just hope they are better than the last? As you know, I'm a non-trad and I've been taking classes at my local community colleges while working full time. These professors don't really have a shot to get a deep look at me over the course of one semester...but I've got to work with what I have available to me.
Is it possible that the CC classes and UNE are weighing down your app, causing the adcoms to waiver once they dig deeper? Did you take all the prereqs at the CC? Just throwing out a possible explanation b/c everything else sounds solid.
 
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yanks26dmb

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Is it possible that the CC classes and UNE are weighing down your app, causing the adcoms to waiver once they dig deeper? Did you take all the prereqs at the CC? Just throwing out a possible explanation b/c everything else sounds solid.
I took nearly all prerequisites at cc. Getting the classes I've needed has been tough as it is, and I've simply taken what I could get.

My.options at local universities has been limited unfortunately, between work schedules and their class offerings.

What can I do to combat this? I assume taking more bio classes at a cc won't help...
 

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Sounds like that might be the underlying issue.. How old are you, OP? Are you a non-trad where you decided to start pursuing pre-med at an "adult" age? If so, you would think they would be a little bit more understanding, unfortunately there is a stigma of community colleges. They may not be very confident you could handle the courses, but your MCAT shows otherwise IMO.

Sorry this is such a sucky situation for you.
 
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yanks26dmb

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Sounds like that might be the underlying issue.. How old are you, OP? Are you a non-trad where you decided to start pursuing pre-med at an "adult" age? If so, you would think they would be a little bit more understanding, unfortunately there is a stigma of community colleges. They may not be very confident you could handle the courses, but your MCAT shows otherwise IMO.

Sorry this is such a sucky situation for you.
Yes, I'm currently 30. I went back to school at 28. Schools can see between running my own business, volunteering, shadowing, and taking classes I've had a couple years straight of 60-70 hour weeks. I thought DO schools were more forgiving about cc classes....especially considering these circumstances.

So basically, is there nothing I can do? I'm basically screwed considering I took my prereqs at a cc...?
 

baxt1412

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Yes, I'm currently 30. I went back to school at 28. Schools can see between running my own business, volunteering, shadowing, and taking classes I've had a couple years straight of 60-70 hour weeks. I thought DO schools were more forgiving about cc classes....especially considering these circumstances.

So basically, is there nothing I can do? I'm basically screwed considering I took my prereqs at a cc...?
idk dude honestly.

your best bet would be Goro, and even Goro is perplexed. :\
 

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Sorry to hear that, it must be really disheartening but the cycle is not over yet! I'm pretty sure you'll write to us about an acceptance soon.

It seems to me that your previous experience interviewing people and being interviewed in a non-academic setting might be actually misleading you here. I would imagine a business interview requires a much more pushy and confident approach. Medicine is a very hierarchical field, maybe you didn't appear deferent enough?
 
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but all pre-reqs?
I was accepted with all pre-reqs (and only genetics in addition to basic pre-reqs) except orgo from a CC.

It was never brought up in a single interview and your MCAT is more than enough to let them know you learned what you were supposed to in those courses.
 
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baxt1412

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I was accepted with all pre-reqs (and only genetics in addition to basic pre-reqs) except orgo from a CC.

It was never brought up in a single interview and your MCAT is more than enough to let them know you learned what you were supposed to in those courses.
just to be clear, i don't doubt anyone if they can back up CC courses with a good MCAT. i just don't know how schools view it. i have to imagine it would be more "okay" for a non-trad applicant to have more CC credit.
 

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yanks26dmb

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I think really it's either your letters or your interviewing.
Its unfortunate that letters of rec are virtually the one thing outside of your control...I could literally never get a solid letter and never become a doctor...and I'd never know because I can never see them.
 
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Drrrrrr. Celty

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Its unfortunate that letters of rec are virtually the one thing outside of your control...I could literally never get a solid letter and never become a doctor...and I'd never know because I can never see them.
Well, chances are they're not going to write you an extremely bad one. It may be relatively meh, but it'll slide as a requirement I guess. I know I had at least one meh one for sure.
 
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yanks26dmb

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Well, chances are they're not going to write you an extremely bad one. It may be relatively meh, but it'll slide as a requirement I guess. I know I had at least one meh one for sure.
This is kind of how I feel...I know my physician letters are solid, but the professors, who knows. I have a hard time beliving a meh letter would prevent one from ever becoming a doctor....especially when multiple physician letters are so solid. But who knows...my only alternative IF this is the problem is just take more classes with the sole intention of getting more letters and just hope they are better....something about that just doesn't seem right.
 

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This is kind of how I feel...I know my physician letters are solid, but the professors, who knows. I have a hard time beliving a meh letter would prevent one from ever becoming a doctor....especially when multiple physician letters are so solid. But who knows...my only alternative IF this is the problem is just take more classes with the sole intention of getting more letters and just hope they are better....something about that just doesn't seem right.
both of those schools reject fairly frequently post-interview, if it makes you feel better.
 
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yanks26dmb

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both of those schools reject fairly frequently post-interview, if it makes you feel better.
Appreciate the moral support. Though, I looked at the numbers earlier and it appears KCUMB accepted 85.4% of interviewees last year...that's what was making this such a hard pill to swallow


*not sure if that figure includes wait list too though..
 

ananasmed

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Appreciate the moral support. Though, I looked at the numbers earlier and it appears KCUMB accepted 85.4% of interviewees last year...that's what was making this such a hard pill to swallow


*not sure if that figure includes wait list too though..
From what I heard, that acceptance percentage typically DOES include people who are accepted from the wait list. I'm sorry that you're in such a sticky place :( Will be rooting for you.
 

Mika252

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Appreciate the moral support. Though, I looked at the numbers earlier and it appears KCUMB accepted 85.4% of interviewees last year...that's what was making this such a hard pill to swallow


*not sure if that figure includes wait list too though..
Like most have been saying, don't lose hope. You're still really early in the cycle and even getting waitlisted is not necessarily a bad thing. It's not a no. Have you done mock interviews with others? Not to make canned answers but to see body language and how you come off to other people. Or practicing in a mirror to kind of notice your own bad habits. Other than that, I'd say we're all rooting for you and have faith. The season is still young.
 

Drrrrrr. Celty

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Appreciate the moral support. Though, I looked at the numbers earlier and it appears KCUMB accepted 85.4% of interviewees last year...that's what was making this such a hard pill to swallow


*not sure if that figure includes wait list too though..

It includes WL. But point being is that with KCUMB by the time you reach the interview, it's all about the interview. If you do it right, then you'll get in. If you did it ok, you'll get Wl. If you did it wrong, you'll be rejected.

I've never heard really of people being rejected after not doing their interview well.
 
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I really believe the western interview outcome may have been pre-determined, like maybe we were ranked pre-interview.

We both had similar feelings about how we did and the reactions from our interviewers themselves were also oddly similar...and we ended up with the same outcome lol
 

UBC2014

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I really believe the western interview outcome may have been pre-determined, like maybe we were ranked pre-interview.

We both had similar feelings about how we did and the reactions from our interviewers themselves were also oddly similar...and we ended up with the same outcome lol
interesting concept, given that Western gets a lot of competitive applicants especially from in-state, they may do some sort of ranking algorithm..

this is going to be a long 2-3 weeks for me awaiting my decision :p