Getting in with a 3.0

[db6171]

I changed majors from engineering to biology, unfortunately engineering tanked my GPA. I'll end up graduating with a 3.0 GPA, unsure what my math/science is at this point. I am currently getting my pharmacy tech certification, I have experience in a pharmacy, I will graduate with a bachelor's in biology, and I'm just wondering with this and with a good PCAT score is there a chance that I can even get into pharmacy school (ULM preferably), or am I just wasting my time. Any advice is appreciated.

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[xeroxAV]

The canonical reply here is that most pharm schools will accept you the second you get approved for loans, grades notwithstanding

 

[Gaius Diocletianus]

Yeah just get a 70+ on your PCAT and you'll be fine

 

[PharmtoCS]

I would go back to engineering even if you barely pass your classes. Engineering offers much better job prospects and does not require you to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years in school.

 

[slothsrule89]

I would go back to engineering even if you barely pass your classes. Engineering offers much better job prospects and does not require you to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years in school.

You do realize that you actually have to be good at it? I have a friend who is an engineer and it is a cut throat position. He probably makes about 60,000 a year, and he is going to have to get his master's to move up to higher paying jobs. You always seem to be suggesting engineering without actually looking at figures. Very few engineers make the top salary, most stay below six figures.

Also, I work in schools. Teachers believe that the new blue collar profession will be computer programer where the new white collar is the technical careers such as plumber, pipe fitter, and electrician. Just saying, you seem to spew a lot of stuff without actually knowing any facts about those professions.

OP: Do what you want to do. Take the time and figure out what you want in your life. You are young, take a few years off and work.

 

[db6171]

I would go back to engineering even if you barely pass your classes. Engineering offers much better job prospects and does not require you to take out $200k+ in loans and spend an additional 4 years in school.

I just wasn't happy in engineering anymore. I started out wanting to do pharmacy in highschool and talked myself out of it. I did engineering for 2.5 years and it was just slaughtering me.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

I just wasn't happy in engineering anymore. I started out wanting to do pharmacy in highschool and talked myself out of it. I did engineering for 2.5 years and it was just slaughtering me.

Have you ever worked a day in the pharmacy?
Do you enjoy sitting down?

If you don't mind standing up for 12 hours straight while you get yelled at by drug-seeking addicts and smelly old people, then berated by your manager for not meeting your metrics, then be my guest.

If you like the thought of being treated like a overglorified fast-food worker for the rest of your life, then go ahead and apply.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

You do realize that you actually have to be good at it? I have a friend who is an engineer and it is a cut throat position. He probably makes about 60,000 a year, and he is going to have to get his master's to move up to higher paying jobs. You always seem to be suggesting engineering without actually looking at figures. Very few engineers make the top salary, most stay below six figures.

Don't most jobs require that you be good at it to remain employed or advance??? This has to be the most ridiculous question ever. Do you actually believe that you can be lazy as a pharmacist? Enjoy underemployment or unemployment if you can't had the stress of being a pharmacist.

 

[slothsrule89]

Don't most jobs require that you be good at it to remain employed or advance??? This has to be the most ridiculous question ever. Do you actually believe that you can be lazy as a pharmacist? Enjoy underemployment or unemployment if you can't had the stress of being a pharmacist.

I was a teacher, I know stress. I have been yelled at by parents, verbally threatened, physically assaulted, and treated by crap. I also stood on my feet all day with no bathroom breaks. At least when I was a cashier, I got to pee when I wanted. You do have to be good at anything you choose and seems like you think pharmacists are fake doctors. That is your opinion to hold but when they said they were bearly passing their engineering classes, why would they go back to a field that they felt they were failing at? Because that is bad advice. Also assuming people to be underemployed or unemployed is uncalled for.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

I was a teacher, I know stress. I have been yelled at by parents, verbally threatened, physically assaulted, and treated by crap. I also stood on my feet all day with no bathroom breaks. At least when I was a cashier, I got to pee when I wanted. You do have to be good at anything you choose and seems like you think pharmacists are fake doctors. That is your opinion to hold but when they said they were bearly passing their engineering classes, why would they go back to a field that they felt they were failing at? Because that is bad advice. Also assuming people to be underemployed or unemployed is uncalled for.

UMADBRO. LOL, did I trigger you? Another snowflake has appeared. You know your comment reveals your utter lack of understanding for what pharmacy really is?

Tell me buddy, what is a doctor?

To me a doctor is someone who diagnoses, prescribes and treats a patient. Guess which of these degrees (MD, DO, NP, PA, DDS, DMD, PharmD) allow you to do that?

Guess, what? Every single degree I listed practices those services to a certain extent except for the PharmD. Pharmacists cannot perform a physical examination, cannot make a diagnosis, cannot prescribe medications, and are not allowed to perform any kind specialized physical treatments.

Even the US government and the private insurance companies reimburse these degrees (minus the PharmD) for these services. It doesn't matter if you self-studied physical examination, diagnoses, and drug therapy because Uncle Sam will not reimburse you for providing these services. That's right, insurance companies trust PAs and NPs to do these services but not you "doctor" PharmD. PharmD's are supposed to be the "drug experts" but they cannot even prescribe drugs or change patient drugs without permission from an MD or DO.

It sounds like pharmacists aren't really doctors to me. The PA and the NP degrees are masters-level degrees, but they are seen as "providers" by the US government but not "pharmacists". Does that shock you? If it doesn't, then that means you have no F---'ing clue how the healthcare world works.

The only thing about the PharmD that is "doctorate" is the tuition. NP and PA degrees can be had at a fraction of the price of a PharmD. And they are in more demand than pharmacists. Check the BLS website. The expected growth in jobs for PharmDs is 3%, way below the average for other jobs. Also the US Department of Health and Human Services is predicting an oversupply of pharmacists of ~50,000 people by the year 2025. The US government thinks that pharmacists are going to be in oversupply. Enjoy getting a job or keeping one in this environment.

I thought teachers trained their students to research topics they write about and to back up their arguments with reliable sources. Do you not practice what you teach?

Also, get a job at a pharmacy. What makes you think you can go to the bathroom whenever you want? I have to say, I got a good laugh out of your tough-guy persona. Don't worry, you're going to get the privilege of getting disrespected and yelled at by customers, managers, and doctors on a daily basis. Also, enjoy having a gun put to your head when the local addict decides to rob your narcotics.

 

[Moose A Moose]

I was a teacher, I know stress.

... lol

 

[Hannah Faulkner]

A good PCAT score will get you there...... Don't confuse yourself decide which one you want to do badly engineering or biology

 

[slothsrule89]

... lol

Why is that funny to you? Most people think that teachers have it easy. I spent summers planning, I worked till at least 6 every day and I paid for my students' supplies. On top of that, we are held accountable by bias testing and that can mean losing your job over your students motivation, previous education experiences and home life. I have worked only in inner city schools and its not an easy job.

 

[slothsrule89]

UMADBRO. LOL, did I trigger you? Another snowflake has appeared. You know your comment reveals your utter lack of understanding for what pharmacy really is?

Tell me buddy, what is a doctor?

To me a doctor is someone who diagnoses, prescribes and treats a patient. Guess which of these degrees (MD, DO, NP, PA, DDS, DMD, PharmD) allow you to do that?

Guess, what? Every single degree I listed practices those services to a certain extent except for the PharmD. Pharmacists cannot perform a physical examination, cannot make a diagnosis, cannot prescribe medications, and are not allowed to perform any kind specialized physical treatments.

Even the US government and the private insurance companies reimburse these degrees (minus the PharmD) for these services. It doesn't matter if you self-studied physical examination, diagnoses, and drug therapy because Uncle Sam will not reimburse you for providing these services. That's right, insurance companies trust PAs and NPs to do these services but not you "doctor" PharmD. PharmD's are supposed to be the "drug experts" but they cannot even prescribe drugs or change patient drugs without permission from an MD or DO.

It sounds like pharmacists aren't really doctors to me. The PA and the NP degrees are masters-level degrees, but they are seen as "providers" by the US government but not "pharmacists". Does that shock you? If it doesn't, then that means you have no F---'ing clue how the healthcare world works.

The only thing about the PharmD that is "doctorate" is the tuition. NP and PA degrees can be had at a fraction of the price of a PharmD. And they are in more demand than pharmacists. Check the BLS website. The expected growth in jobs for PharmDs is 3%, way below the average for other jobs. Also the US Department of Health and Human Services is predicting an oversupply of pharmacists of ~50,000 people by the year 2025. The US government thinks that pharmacists are going to be in oversupply. Enjoy getting a job or keeping one in this environment.

I thought teachers trained their students to research topics they write about and to back up their arguments with reliable sources. Do you not practice what you teach?

Also, get a job at a pharmacy. What makes you think you can go to the bathroom whenever you want? I have to say, I got a good laugh out of your tough-guy persona. Don't worry, you're going to get the privilege of getting disrespected and yelled at by customers, managers, and doctors on a daily basis. Also, enjoy having a gun put to your head when the local addict decides to rob your narcotics.

By the way, if you research you would know that a NP very shortly will be a DNP. I have three in my family and I know there daily lives as a NP. One works in long term care, one in inpatient behavioral health and the other the ER. I also have a hospital administrator in my family as well as a nurse educator.

You point out the growth statistics which yes they are showing to be slower than average. If you look at the supply of primary care nurse practitioners, they are also projected an oversupply by 20,000. Link: https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/...rimary-care-national-projections2013-2025.pdf

In the same link above, they are also projecting an oversupply of primary care PAs by 2025.

The only really medical profession that will be in need is physicians. New Research Confirms Looming Physician Shortage - News Releases - Newsroom - AAMC

Oh, you say to get a job in a pharmacy. I can't do that but I have been volunteering with a family friend and taking my time. I have shadowed a clinical role and retail. I also have done a lot of informational interviewing with pharmacists.

I actually feel that you calling me a special snowflake is disrespectful. And I should have figured you will have it done it based on your GOT reference. Because you made several references to me being not able to research the field and know the job projections. I have, I actually took a career exploration class and they went through how to look at the data. I also know whatever path I choose will be long, hard and difficult. Career switching is difficult but staying a career because it provides job security is no way to live your life because you will be miserable.

Also if you look, I never said that I would be able to take bathroom breaks whenever I wanted as a pharmacist. I said as a cashier compared to a teacher. Doesn't mean that will happen as a pharmacist either. I also never really had a lunch break. At least when I was a cashier, I got a lunch break and bathroom breaks.

Oh, I actually agree that we need to stop letting everyone into these schools. I currently travel to all sorts of schools and currently we are educating our children to be plugged into an iPad for 24/7. They will be our new workforce that will not think all day and will do whatever the employer is.

Newsflash: Jobs everywhere suck. Working conditions will only get worse in USA. Pay will only get worse until we have the right people in power. Bad news about the healthcare bill, people will not be able to get care for simple preventable diseases. Good news for healthcare, sicker people means more money.

 

[db6171]

A good PCAT score will get you there...... Don't confuse yourself decide which one you want to do badly engineering or biology

I definitely want to do pharmacy, I just wanted to get an opinion to see if I even had a shot with it or if I was just wasting my time. My GPA makes me nervous about it.

 

[PharmtoCS]

I definitely want to do pharmacy, I just wanted to get an opinion to see if I even had a shot with it or if I was just wasting my time. My GPA makes me nervous about it.

Anyone can get in with much worse stats than you but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to go to pharmacy school. Taking out $200k+ in loans for a field which jobs are getting more scarce and competition is getting tougher each year is a terrible investment.

 

[Hannah Faulkner]

Anyone can get in with much worse stats than you but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to go to pharmacy school. Taking out $200k+ in loans for a field which jobs are getting more scarce and competition is getting tougher each year is a terrible investment.

I beg to differ, if you end up with something with no passion. You regret whole life end up in doing jobs you don't like. When you are considering career paths always ask one thing to yourself, did you love the work and responsibility associated with that path and can you do it with passion even for free even only go for it. Good Luck!!

 

[Apples2Oranges]

UMADBRO. LOL, did I trigger you? Another snowflake has appeared. You know your comment reveals your utter lack of understanding for what pharmacy really is?

Tell me buddy, what is a doctor?

To me a doctor is someone who diagnoses, prescribes and treats a patient. Guess which of these degrees (MD, DO, NP, PA, DDS, DMD, PharmD) allow you to do that?

Guess, what? Every single degree I listed practices those services to a certain extent except for the PharmD. Pharmacists cannot perform a physical examination, cannot make a diagnosis, cannot prescribe medications, and are not allowed to perform any kind specialized physical treatments.

Even the US government and the private insurance companies reimburse these degrees (minus the PharmD) for these services. It doesn't matter if you self-studied physical examination, diagnoses, and drug therapy because Uncle Sam will not reimburse you for providing these services. That's right, insurance companies trust PAs and NPs to do these services but not you "doctor" PharmD. PharmD's are supposed to be the "drug experts" but they cannot even prescribe drugs or change patient drugs without permission from an MD or DO.

It sounds like pharmacists aren't really doctors to me. The PA and the NP degrees are masters-level degrees, but they are seen as "providers" by the US government but not "pharmacists". Does that shock you? If it doesn't, then that means you have no F---'ing clue how the healthcare world works.

The only thing about the PharmD that is "doctorate" is the tuition. NP and PA degrees can be had at a fraction of the price of a PharmD. And they are in more demand than pharmacists. Check the BLS website. The expected growth in jobs for PharmDs is 3%, way below the average for other jobs. Also the US Department of Health and Human Services is predicting an oversupply of pharmacists of ~50,000 people by the year 2025. The US government thinks that pharmacists are going to be in oversupply. Enjoy getting a job or keeping one in this environment.

I thought teachers trained their students to research topics they write about and to back up their arguments with reliable sources. Do you not practice what you teach?

Also, get a job at a pharmacy. What makes you think you can go to the bathroom whenever you want? I have to say, I got a good laugh out of your tough-guy persona. Don't worry, you're going to get the privilege of getting disrespected and yelled at by customers, managers, and doctors on a daily basis. Also, enjoy having a gun put to your head when the local addict decides to rob your narcotics.

Definition of DOCTOR
doctor: "a person who has earned one of the highest academic degrees (such as a PhD) conferred by a university Most of the college's faculty members are doctors in their fields. The class is being taught by Doctor Menzer.d : a person awarded an honorary doctorate (such as an LLD or Litt D) by a college or university"

Your definition is more fitting for the term "provider" not doctor. I bet you called your professors "Dr." regardless of what they taught. Professors were doctors before physicians.

While I agree that a pharmacist would have done well without the PharmD and remain as a Rph, it's how it is now. There's no point in arguing whether or not a pharmacist is considered a doctor in your terms or another. If you are in a clinical setting, in a medical team, and you have a PharmD, then it is fitting if patients and others refer to you as a doctor. A PA and NP can prescribe and treat, but you wouldn't call them a doctor, so what's your argument really? You don't think they get yelled at everyday, either? You don't go into healthcare expecting patients to treat you like royalty. Why do you think medical professionals have one of the highest rates of suicide and drug abuse?

Not sure why you call others a snowflake when you seem to get offended about why a pharmacist with a PharmD shouldn't be called a doctor.

 

[minzhen27510]

You...should avoid pharmacy... Do your research...

You can EASILY get into a pharmacy school if you do not mind the location. Pharmacy ranking does not mean much, but you do understand that passing the new NAPLEX (revised in Nov 2016) is a must? If you are that determined to do pharmacy, here is the NAPLEX breakdown for each school: https://nabp.pharmacy/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2016-NAPLEX-Pass-Rates.pdf

After pharmacy school you will need to find a job right? You can see the demand curve here: PDI
I am currently in a state with PDI of 2.71 (It was 3.0 when I graduated last year). The demand is dropping as the year goes by. We have a 50 years old pharmacist who works <20 hours a week, drives 3 hours to work everyday. A lot of pharmacists interviewed for a PRN position we had open, and none got hired.

Average salary is declining, while tuition is increasing.

 

[Apples2Oranges]

You...should avoid pharmacy... Do your research...

You can EASILY get into a pharmacy school if you do not mind the location. Pharmacy ranking does not mean much, but you do understand that passing the new NAPLEX (revised in Nov 2016) is a must? If you are that determined to do pharmacy, here is the NAPLEX breakdown for each school: https://nabp.pharmacy/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/2016-NAPLEX-Pass-Rates.pdf

After pharmacy school you will need to find a job right? You can see the demand curve here: PDI
I am currently in a state with PDI of 2.71 (It was 3.0 when I graduated last year). The demand is dropping as the year goes by. We have a 50 years old pharmacist who works <20 hours a week, drives 3 hours to work everyday. A lot of pharmacists interviewed for a PRN position we had open, and none got hired.

Average salary is declining, while tuition is increasing.

Tuition is increasing, but the average salary hasn't declined. But that doesn't consider the inflation. Average salary declines because people aren't getting FT positions. And there aren't any sign-on bonuses either. Recent graduates from my pharmacy school got jobs with 90-125k in various areas. Some are less desirable than others.
The field is definitely saturated and I still don't recommend it. Not sure how it will be 10 years from now.

 

[minzhen27510]

Tuition is increasing, but the average salary hasn't declined. But that doesn't consider the inflation. Average salary declines because people aren't getting FT positions. And there aren't any sign-on bonuses either. Recent graduates from my pharmacy school got jobs with 90-125k in various areas. Some are less desirable than others.
The field is definitely saturated and I still don't recommend it. Not sure how it will be 10 years from now.

Yup it is. I graduated in 2016. I'm not even close to 90k a year and I'm working 40 hours a week.

 

[Apples2Oranges]

Yup it is. I graduated in 2016. I'm not even close to 90k a year and I'm working 40 hours a week.

You need to move or something.

 

[rkishek1]

I changed majors from engineering to biology, unfortunately engineering tanked my GPA. I'll end up graduating with a 3.0 GPA, unsure what my math/science is at this point. I am currently getting my pharmacy tech certification, I have experience in a pharmacy, I will graduate with a bachelor's in biology, and I'm just wondering with this and with a good PCAT score is there a chance that I can even get into pharmacy school (ULM preferably), or am I just wasting my time. Any advice is appreciated.

I did not really enjoy undergraduate having to do with writing lab reports and have that sort of in the way of exams since I was a chemistry major. I did not enjoy taking the time to write lab reports because it took away all my studying and the short answer exams were plain out difficult. After undergraduate with chemistry, my gpa was an 2.78 (my gpa when I applied to pharmacy school). My pcat score was low before getting into pharmacy school. My pcat overall score was a 43rd percentile with a very high math and chemistry scores. After finishing my second year as a professional student at Hampton University school of pharmacy, my overall gpa is at an 3.80 overall! I feel all that pharmacy school is is just finding time to study and having that time management skill whereas in undergrad I had to teach myself. Hope this helps!

 

[confettiflyer]

Oh man super trolling in this thread.

3.0 should be okay, that's what I got in under (granted this was 10 years ago) with a 90+ PCAT.

But the average GPA for my major was like 2.89 or something, and I attended a top 10 undergrad notorious for its difficulty.

GPA is really only useful for automated cut off... after that, a coherent personal statement will get you further.

 

[Amicable Angora]

I changed majors from engineering to biology, unfortunately engineering tanked my GPA. I'll end up graduating with a 3.0 GPA, unsure what my math/science is at this point. I am currently getting my pharmacy tech certification, I have experience in a pharmacy, I will graduate with a bachelor's in biology, and I'm just wondering with this and with a good PCAT score is there a chance that I can even get into pharmacy school (ULM preferably), or am I just wasting my time. Any advice is appreciated.

You are in a good situation. Do not worry, it is well known that engineering is an extremely difficult major.

 

[insaiyanpredent]

Don't listen to the people that are telling you to turn back to engineering or someone that will tell you to gear yourself toward something else. That's ultimately up to you. You decided to change into biology from engineering, so you have to decide if Pharmacy is for you or not. Work in the Pharmacy and see what happens if you like it then go for it.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

Definition of DOCTOR
doctor: "a person who has earned one of the highest academic degrees (such as a PhD) conferred by a university Most of the college's faculty members are doctors in their fields. The class is being taught by Doctor Menzer.d : a person awarded an honorary doctorate (such as an LLD or Litt D) by a college or university"

Your definition is more fitting for the term "provider" not doctor. I bet you called your professors "Dr." regardless of what they taught. Professors were doctors before physicians.

While I agree that a pharmacist would have done well without the PharmD and remain as a Rph, it's how it is now. There's no point in arguing whether or not a pharmacist is considered a doctor in your terms or another. If you are in a clinical setting, in a medical team, and you have a PharmD, then it is fitting if patients and others refer to you as a doctor. A PA and NP can prescribe and treat, but you wouldn't call them a doctor, so what's your argument really? You don't think they get yelled at everyday, either? You don't go into healthcare expecting patients to treat you like royalty. Why do you think medical professionals have one of the highest rates of suicide and drug abuse?

Not sure why you call others a snowflake when you seem to get offended about why a pharmacist with a PharmD shouldn't be called a doctor.

Cool. Thanks for the link. Scroll down the page and you get this for the definition of 'doctor':

a : a person skilled or specializing in healing arts; especially : one (such as a physician, dentist, or veterinarian) who holds an advanced degree and is licensed to practice

This is the definition of what a 'doctor' is to the greater public. The vast majority of people in this country think of 'doctors' as physicians. And no, patients don't use the word 'provider' to describe a physician. In the medical setting it is ABSOLUTELY INAPPROPRIATE to refer to yourself or any other non-physician as a 'doctor'. It will confuse the patients as to your role.

And about your point about 'doctor' being a person who has attained the highest degree in their field. I find it laughable that the pharmacy organizations took what was essentially a bachelor's degree and arbitrarily made it into a doctorate degree. Not only that, they lowered the standards and dumbed down the subject matter to the point that substandard students are being handed these doctorate degrees in exchange for student loan money.

So I'm not wrong when I assert that pharmacists are fake doctors. They don't come close to being practitioner's of the healing arts/medicine and their 'doctorate' degree is a joke.

And no, I refer to my professors using the title 'professor' not 'doctor'.

 

[Pharmd = Phake Doctor]

By the way, if you research you would know that a NP very shortly will be a DNP. I have three in my family and I know there daily lives as a NP. One works in long term care, one in inpatient behavioral health and the other the ER. I also have a hospital administrator in my family as well as a nurse educator.

You point out the growth statistics which yes they are showing to be slower than average. If you look at the supply of primary care nurse practitioners, they are also projected an oversupply by 20,000. Link: https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/...rimary-care-national-projections2013-2025.pdf

In the same link above, they are also projecting an oversupply of primary care PAs by 2025.

The only really medical profession that will be in need is physicians. New Research Confirms Looming Physician Shortage - News Releases - Newsroom - AAMC

Oh, you say to get a job in a pharmacy. I can't do that but I have been volunteering with a family friend and taking my time. I have shadowed a clinical role and retail. I also have done a lot of informational interviewing with pharmacists.

I actually feel that you calling me a special snowflake is disrespectful. And I should have figured you will have it done it based on your GOT reference. Because you made several references to me being not able to research the field and know the job projections. I have, I actually took a career exploration class and they went through how to look at the data. I also know whatever path I choose will be long, hard and difficult. Career switching is difficult but staying a career because it provides job security is no way to live your life because you will be miserable.

Also if you look, I never said that I would be able to take bathroom breaks whenever I wanted as a pharmacist. I said as a cashier compared to a teacher. Doesn't mean that will happen as a pharmacist either. I also never really had a lunch break. At least when I was a cashier, I got a lunch break and bathroom breaks.

Oh, I actually agree that we need to stop letting everyone into these schools. I currently travel to all sorts of schools and currently we are educating our children to be plugged into an iPad for 24/7. They will be our new workforce that will not think all day and will do whatever the employer is.

Newsflash: Jobs everywhere suck. Working conditions will only get worse in USA. Pay will only get worse until we have the right people in power. Bad news about the healthcare bill, people will not be able to get care for simple preventable diseases. Good news for healthcare, sicker people means more money.

It's interesting how you make the claim that modern-day kids are mindless ipad zombies, but you're unable to even make a coherent argument. If the working conditions of all careers are going to only get worse, then why are you going into debt for a profession that has some of the worst predicted employment and salary growths.

I never said people should go into the PA or NP professions. I said that these professions were closer to the practice of medicine than pharmacy. So yes, pharmacists aren't real doctors. Does that make you mad? The pharmacy profession's ill-conceived doctorate degree (which is actually an overpriced and over-glorified bachelor's degree) is nothing like the medical degree.