Getting rescinded by employer?

[pythonmorsels]

.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[cranberrylimeade]

What does the contract say will happen if she leaves early? I think that would be a huge legal
issue if she called the dean and the offer was actually rescinded but I doubt it would.

 

[pythonmorsels]

What does the contract say will happen if she leaves early? I think that would be a huge legal
issue if she called the dean and the offer was actually rescinded but I doubt it would.

No, it says nothing about leaving early

 

[Goro]

No, it says nothing about leaving early

Then it's an unenforceable contract, it seems.

A call from a disgruntled ex-employer is not going to affect anything.

 

[pythonmorsels]

Then it's an unenforceable contract, it seems.

A call from a disgruntled ex-employer is not going to affect anything.

Thanks for your response. Do you think they should talk to the dean beforehand?

 

[LizzyM]

Hi everyone,

I am a current medical student. My partner is applying this cycle and was accepted to a medical school. They have been working at a super toxic clinic (run by a physician who is faculty at a different medical school) over the past gap year and put in a one month notice to quit (plans to quit within the next month), although when they initially started the job they were supposed to work right up until their new school started. The job contract they signed said that the employment offer is for a one year commitment, including a two month probationary period for a total of 14 months. My partner wants to quit to spend time with her grandfather who is expected to pass away soon. They were pulled aside last week by the physician saying that they weren't allowed to quit, that they would face legal consequences if they did, and that she would call the dean of admissions (claiming she knows the dean personally) and tell her to rescind her offer. What should we do? Partner is afraid of being rescinded and I don't know how to assure them otherwise.

I think that your partner should begin by having a conversation with an employment attorney to see if there is a way to get out of this contract. Otherwise, there can be legal consequences including a lawsuit for breach of contract and responsibility for financial losses experienced by the employer for lack of an employee.

On the other hand, a school would have a hard time making a case for rescinding an offer due to a negative comment from an employer or former employer. I think that things would have to get really dark, like a disgruntled former employer making a false acquisition of serious wrongdoing that results in the former employee's arrest, for a med school to pull an offer of admission for something like this.

 

[Endoxifen]

Thanks for your response. Do you think they should talk to the dean beforehand?

I'd advise keeping a paper trail. Only communicate over email, if possible. If there's nothing in the contract about quitting, they have no legal mechanism to keep her there. My understanding is that contracts of this nature can stipulate a penalty for leaving, but it's not possible to confine someone to a position through a contract absolutely. I'd (personally) leave sooner rather than later to spare herself the mental anguish.

 

[anon2]

I think that your partner should begin by having a conversation with an employment attorney to see if there is a way to get out of this contract.

Lawyer up now. Attorneys will generally give out free consults as part of their business model.

Read the contract very carefully - magic words like "at will" cut both ways, and it means zero notice quitting/firing.

 

[LizzyM]

Lawyer up now. Attorneys will generally give out free consults as part of their business model.

Read the contract very carefully - magic words like "at will" cut both ways, and it means zero notice quitting/firing.

There should also be a statement in the contract on how one gives notice and how much advance notice is required (2 weeks, 60 days, etc)

 

[pythonmorsels]

I think that your partner should begin by having a conversation with an employment attorney to see if there is a way to get out of this contract. Otherwise, there can be legal consequences including a lawsuit for breach of contract and responsibility for financial losses experienced by the employer for lack of an employee.

On the other hand, a school would have a hard time making a case for rescinding an offer due to a negative comment from an employer or former employer. I think that things would have to get really dark, like a disgruntled former employer making a false acquisition of serious wrongdoing that results in the former employee's arrest, for a med school to pull an offer of admission for something like this.

Lawyer up now. Attorneys will generally give out free consults as part of their business model.

Read the contract very carefully - magic words like "at will" cut both ways, and it means zero notice quitting/firing.

I'd advise keeping a paper trail. Only communicate over email, if possible. If there's nothing in the contract about quitting, they have no legal mechanism to keep her there. My understanding is that contracts of this nature can stipulate a penalty for leaving, but it's not possible to confine someone to a position through a contract absolutely. I'd (personally) leave sooner rather than later to spare herself the mental anguish.

Thanks all for your help. The contract is rather short, only one page, and has no stipulations regarding "at will" or anything about advance notice. Here's what it says: "We are very pleased to offer you a position ______. The employment offer is for a one year commitment that includes a two month probationary period. Therefore, a total commitment of 14 months upon your start date. However, your end date will be contingent upon your start date for your medical school. Start Date: July 5th, 2023. The employment offer for this position is contingent on the completion of the probationary period of two months. During this period your performance will be reviewed and we will determine if you have completed the probationary period."

Since this is the only part that mentions length of contract is there any additional advice any of you would give? Thanks again.

 

[Endoxifen]

Thanks all for your help. The contract is rather short, only one page, and has no stipulations regarding "at will" or anything about advance notice. Here's what it says: "We are very pleased to offer you a position ______. The employment offer is for a one year commitment that includes a two month probationary period. Therefore, a total commitment of 14 months upon your start date. However, your end date will be contingent upon your start date for your medical school. Start Date: July 5th, 2023. The employment offer for this position is contingent on the completion of the probationary period of two months. During this period your performance will be reviewed and we will determine if you have completed the probationary period."

Since this is the only part that mentions length of contract is there any additional advice any of you would give? Thanks again.

I'm not a lawyer (this isn't legal advice), but that sounds meaningless to me. I'd still consider seeking an employment attorney, but there's nothing that appears to be restrictive in any way.

 

[Med Ed]

Thanks all for your help. The contract is rather short, only one page, and has no stipulations regarding "at will" or anything about advance notice. Here's what it says: "We are very pleased to offer you a position ______. The employment offer is for a one year commitment that includes a two month probationary period. Therefore, a total commitment of 14 months upon your start date. However, your end date will be contingent upon your start date for your medical school. Start Date: July 5th, 2023. The employment offer for this position is contingent on the completion of the probationary period of two months. During this period your performance will be reviewed and we will determine if you have completed the probationary period."

Since this is the only part that mentions length of contract is there any additional advice any of you would give? Thanks again.

An employment attorney will cut through this in about 5 seconds.

A real employment contract devotes a large amount of verbiage to all the ways the arrangement may end.

 

[anon2]

An employment attorney will cut through this in about 5 seconds.

A real employment contract devotes a large amount of verbiage to all the ways the arrangement may end.

Absolutely correct. That contract is not worth the toilet paper it's printed on. IANAL.

TERMINATION
While it may be difficult to consider issues relating to termination at the start of your employment at EMPLOYER, we believe that it is important to outline our termination policy and agree upon your entitlements. We may terminate your Fellowship for any reason during your probationary period. If this happens, we will give you two weeks’ notice, or payment in lieu of notice. Your appointment may be terminated by EMPLOYER after your probationary period and prior to the End Date and upon two (2) months’ written notice to you or payment of an amount in lieu of notice equivalent to month’s salary. In addition, your assignment and employment may be terminated immediately for cause and without notice or severance in the event that you breach any research or other operational Policy of EMPLOYER. Your assignment and employment will end on the End Date without any further payments to you.

If, during the course of your Fellowship, you decide to leave the assignment prior to your scheduled End Date, you will be required to provide your supervisor with, at minimum, two weeks prior written notice of your departure.

^ This is what a (small portion of a) real contract looks like.

 

[Vicariousstress]

I’m a lawyer, but this still isn’t legal advice, especially I don’t know what state you are in. Even if that contract were enforceable (and a short, simple contract can be), employers are rarely willing to pay the legal fees required to sue former employees. It’s expensive and many states have attorneys fees provisions for the employee. In this case, they’d also have to prove damages, which will be difficult.

As for how this would affect an offer, I don’t know how the admissions office works, but it sounds like it would be a PR nightmare for a school to rescind an offer because a student quit a job to spend time with a dying grandparent.

 

[RangerBob]

I'm sorry for your partner's situation.

I agree with all the above advice/opinions.

If I were in your partner's shoes I'd also be nervous (what pre-med wouldn't be if their boss is threatening to call the school). But med school adcoms are humans. I can't see any world where this affects their acceptance. Life happens, and we adjust. So leaving the job early to spend time with a dying relative shouldn't impact one's med school acceptance.

Two-weeks notice is sufficient professional courtesy for the majority of non-professional jobs out there. Your partner giving a one month's notice seems quite generous on their part. I think it would be reasonable to quit with little/no notice to spend time with a dying relative if it were imminent (within the next month or two). All the more reasonable if their boss is a jerk who is threatening them. I wouldn't work in that situation any longer than I had to. Your partner could consider writing a polite/professional letter stating something to the effect of "in light of recent threatening remarks made to me, I am amending my prior notice of resignation to take effect immediately."

The contract OP quoted above looks more like an offer letter. OP, is it signed by your partner and the clinic director? A valid contract needs a date and signature--of both parties. But even if valid I don't see any details on what happens if the employee leaves or gets fired before the end of the contract date.

 

[Vicariousstress]

I'm sorry for your partner's situation.

I agree with all the above advice/opinions.

If I were in your partner's shoes I'd also be nervous (what pre-med wouldn't be if their boss is threatening to call the school). But med school adcoms are humans. I can't see any world where this affects their acceptance. Life happens, and we adjust. So leaving the job early to spend time with a dying relative shouldn't impact one's med school acceptance.

Two-weeks notice is sufficient professional courtesy for the majority of non-professional jobs out there. Your partner giving a one month's notice seems quite generous on their part. I think it would be reasonable to quit with little/no notice to spend time with a dying relative if it were imminent (within the next month or two). All the more reasonable if their boss is a jerk who is threatening them. I wouldn't work in that situation any longer than I had to. Your partner could consider writing a polite/professional letter stating something to the effect of "in light of recent threatening remarks made to me, I am amending my prior notice of resignation to take effect immediately."

The contract OP quoted above looks more like an offer letter. OP, is it signed by your partner and the clinic director? A valid contract needs a date and signature--of both parties. But even if valid I don't see any details on what happens if the employee leaves or gets fired before the end of the contract date.

I agree with the bulk of what you're saying, but a valid contract doesn't need a date or signatures. What you need is a called a "manifestation of assent," which can be a signature, but can also be implied by conduct (like starting the job).

 

[RangerBob]

I agree with the bulk of what you're saying, but a valid contract doesn't need a date or signatures. What you need is a called a "manifestation of assent," which can be a signature, but can also be implied by conduct (like starting the job).

Well that's new to me.

I guess I retract my statement. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[anon2]

IANAL. I've worked with employment lawyers on both sides of the table. There exists a valid contract for sure, but on its own face it fails to say anything about termination.

Which IIRC means all you get are common law expectations, and they definitely don't include "X weeks of notice or else [any remedy]" in a jurisdiction where most contracts are at-will. Employer basically has no leg to stand on if employee ghosts. And realistically even if they did, the cost/benefit of going after them cause most to drop the stupidity.

Funny how labor market protections cut both ways.

 

[Med Ed]

Which IIRC means all you get are common law expectations, and they definitely don't include "X weeks of notice or else [any remedy]" in a jurisdiction where most contracts are at-will.

Thank you, I think this is what all the non-lawyers on this thread are getting at. The OP's partner didn't exactly join the military with this arrangement.

I'm sure if said partner started showing up to work intoxicated and belligerent, they couldn't wave the contract around and continue being employed.

 

[mistafab]

Unfortunately, there are goobers everywhere.

The physician running this clinic sounds like a goober. Their call will do nothing - as everyone knows a goober when they see one.