Give a guy some advice. Overwhelmed..

[BTR1208]

Hey guys, First off thanks for all the helpful posts throughout the board.

So here is my situation. Currently a junior at my state university. 3.8 cGPA, 4.0 sGPA. I have had zero financial support since I was 16 years old. I work 30-40hrs a week plus school, among other stuff I have to deal that I won't mention. This all is just taking such a toll on me. It has me wondering if I really want to go into all this debt and stay in school for another 5-7 years. I have never come into a situation in my life where I have wanted to give up so much. It is not like me. I have overcome so much and have always been very determined in everything i have done.

I love dentistry. I could absolutely see myself being very successful and enjoying my life but I am not sure if I want to endure the next 5+ years. The most important thing for me is being able to support my family and provide what my parents could not. I am not saying money is everything but it certainly is something. I set a goal for myself when I was young (~12) that I wanted to someday make at least $150k. It's not a ton but enough to live comfortably and support my family.

So I guess my question is what advice do you guys have? Do I keep plugging away. Or do I settle for something else? Even a dentist I shadowed recently was going on and on about the ridiculous amount of debt. He stated how great dentistry is several times but also made a point to mention how starting 6+ years behind financially (salary, investments, etc) is a serious concern.

Another question for you guys: If you were not going into dentistry what would you do?

Thanks for any input.

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[Teeths]

Hey guys, First off thanks for all the helpful posts throughout the board.

So here is my situation. Currently a junior at my state university. 3.8 cGPA, 4.0 sGPA. I have had zero financial support since I was 16 years old. I work 30-40hrs a week plus school, among other stuff I have to deal that I won't mention. This all is just taking such a toll on me. It has me wondering if I really want to go into all this debt and stay in school for another 5-7 years. I have never come into a situation in my life where I have wanted to give up so much. It is not like me. I have overcome so much and have always been very determined in everything i have done.

I love dentistry. I could absolutely see myself being very successful and enjoying my life but I am not sure if I want to endure the next 5+ years. The most important thing for me is being able to support my family and provide what my parents could not. I am not saying money is everything but it certainly is something. I set a goal for myself when I was young (~12) that I wanted to someday make at least $150k. It's not a ton but enough to live comfortably and support my family.

So I guess my question is what advice do you guys have? Do I keep plugging away. Or do I settle for something else? Even a dentist I shadowed recently was going on and on about the ridiculous amount of debt. He stated how great dentistry is several times but also made a point to mention how starting 6+ years behind financially (salary, investments, etc) is a serious concern.

Another question for you guys: If you were not going into dentistry what would you do?

Thanks for any input.

First of all, congrats on such a great GPA! I have a similar situation in that I have no financial support what-so-ever so I have to work many hours per week, study for classes, volunteer, shadow, etc and don't have a GPA that great... you're definitely doing something right!

It sounds to me like you need to take a break.. have you thought about taking a year off after you graduate? Just work, see if there's any way you can save up to take a trip (even if it's somewhere close), keep active in the dental field and see how you're feeling after that. I know it sounds like a meh idea because it's adding a year to the mix if you end up going for dental, but sometimes life gets too hectic and you need a little bit to recover. Please don't think I'm trying to dissuade you from choosing to apply to dental school, but in all reality I'm speaking from what I've learned about myself and the experiences I've been through. I'm a person that probably shouldn't have gone to college right out of high school because I wasn't mature enough to really get into the whole 'studying' bit. To me it sounds like you're into dentistry, but the thought of more schooling is turning you off. Please keep in mind that any other occupation to be making near the $150k you had mentioned is 99% of the time going to require more schooling (usually 3+ years).

Good luck and I hope you find your way

 

[BTR1208]

First of all, congrats on such a great GPA! I have a similar situation in that I have no financial support what-so-ever so I have to work many hours per week, study for classes, volunteer, shadow, etc and don't have a GPA that great... you're definitely doing something right!

It sounds to me like you need to take a break.. have you thought about taking a year off after you graduate? Just work, see if there's any way you can save up to take a trip (even if it's somewhere close), keep active in the dental field and see how you're feeling after that. I know it sounds like a meh idea because it's adding a year to the mix if you end up going for dental, but sometimes life gets too hectic and you need a little bit to recover. Please don't think I'm trying to dissuade you from choosing to apply to dental school, but in all reality I'm speaking from what I've learned about myself and the experiences I've been through. I'm a person that probably shouldn't have gone to college right out of high school because I wasn't mature enough to really get into the whole 'studying' bit. To me it sounds like you're into dentistry, but the thought of more schooling is turning you off. Please keep in mind that any other occupation to be making near the $150k you had mentioned is 99% of the time going to require more schooling (usually 3+ years).

Good luck and I hope you find your way

Appreciate the response and advice!

Life just really seems to be hitting back right now. The schooling is turning me off but also the debt. It is frustrating when i see these kids whose parents cover all their schooling plus living expenses.

I would have no problem getting a masters just the thought of d-school is very overwhelming for some reason..

 

[Teeths]

Appreciate the response and advice!

Life just really seems to be hitting back right now. The schooling is turning me off but also the debt. It is frustrating when i see these kids whose parents cover all their schooling plus living expenses.

I would have no problem getting a masters just the thought of d-school is very overwhelming for some reason..

I understand, I used to be right there with you with that thinking since it just seems I am an unlucky one and had to pave my way all by myself financially. Have you thought of any of the military scholarships? They pay your tuition and you get a stipend every month then you give them 4 years after dental school. Certainly an option with your GPA, I imagine you'd have no problem getting one.

 

[Soleus715]

Realistically, dental loans will be like having a 2nd mortgage. Only people making really bad decisions like taking a standard 10 year loan repayment plan with no financial support AND spending lots of money will have a really hard time.

It's not as lucrative as some of the other majors but it's not like you're gonna be living on a day-to-day lifestyle.

You could crunch the numbers yourself, just look up the costs of dental school and how much you would pay on your repayment plan along with taxes, living expenses, etc.
The amount of disposable income you have for everything else in life (hobbies, family) will be way more than enough to enjoy life.
This will be made even easier if your spouse works.

I chose dentistry over what I do right now (owner of a wholesale business) even though I would end up losing quite a bit of money short-term AND long-term.
My work is very boring most of the time just getting products from overseas supplier and reselling over and over and over. It's not something I want to spend most of my life doing.

Dentistry has many amazing benefits that haven't been given enough weight:

Benefits:
- Flexibile schedule
- Job security
- Stable income

- Eventually you can buy a practice for a LOT less than it really should be valued, increase its output and decrease costs.
Then you can be your own boss and manage your own staff!

- The biggest reason of them all: You absolutely LOVE what you do.


Source: Looked over finances with a CPA friend, 10+ years of working and setting up my own business in wholesale.

EDIT: Completely forgot about mentioning that the above financial talk is in reference to the beginning years of a dentist..
After the few years of getting established, you will be making a lot more money.

 

[ColumbiaASDA]

Here is my personal two cents, not from ColumbiaASDA:

Given the determination and hardships that you've experienced to get to where you are right now, it is a testament to how dedicated you are to your studies and success. If you maintain that mentality and put the student debt behind, you will inevitably live the life you want to, successfully. The road to becoming a dentist is surely not an easy one, but it is certainly a rewarding one. It's not uncommon that students take out loans--most people do. Those six years that you take to pay back your loans is trivial relative to the amount of years you will be in practice for and the amount of money you'll be earning those years. It's all worth it. You shouldn't let anything get in the way of your true passion. Sacrifices are meant to be made. You give up what's good for what's better, like Soleus715. Passion is hard to discover--it may take a lifetime for others. If this is what you want to do, then consider yourself very lucky. Just remember, it is all worth it. Some may argue this point but my philosophy and life experiences deem this situation not impossible to overcome.

There's an option of taking on some army/navy/airforce scholarship such that the government pays for your years of schooling, but you have to give back that same amount of years that they paid for you back to the government. You'll still be making money while returning those years back to the government, I believe. Or, you can attend your state dental school. The cost is much less than going to a private institution.

 

[Teeths]

Here is my personal two cents, not from ColumbiaASDA:

Given the determination and hardships that you've experienced to get to where you are right now, it is a testament to how dedicated you are to your studies and success. If you maintain that mentality and put the student debt behind, you will inevitably live the life you want to do, successfully. The road to becoming a dentist is surely not an easy one, but it is certainly a rewarding one. It's not uncommon that students take out loans--most people do. Those six years that you take to pay back your loans is trivial relative to the amount of years you will be in practice for and the amount of money you'll be earning those years. It's all worth it. You shouldn't let anything get in the way of your true passion. Sacrifices are meant to be made. You give up what's good for what's better, like Soleus715. Passion is hard to discover--it may take a lifetime for others. If this is what you want to do, then consider yourself very lucky. Just remember, it is all worth it. Some may argue this point but my philosophy and life experiences deem this situation not impossible to overcome.

There's an option of taking on some army/navy/airforce scholarship such that the government pays for your years of schooling, but you have to give back that same amount of years that they paid for you back to the government. You'll still be making money while returning those years back to the government, I believe. Or, you can attend your state dental school. The cost is much less than going to a private institution.

Very good advice

 

[ColumbiaASDA]

Very good advice

Thank you, Teeths.

 

[Soleus715]

Passion is hard to discover--it may take a lifetime for others. If this is what you want to do, then consider yourself very lucky. Just remember, it is all worth it.

This is very very well said. I believe that people who found the work they want to do for the rest of their lives are the real winners in this world.

There's an option of taking on some army/navy/airforce scholarship such that the government pays for your years of schooling, but you have to give back that same amount of years that they paid for you back to the government. You'll still be making money while returning those years back to the government, I believe. Or, you can attend your state dental school. The cost is much less than going to a private institution.

I think many of the posts in this thread are relevant http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=447909
It's a choice of sacrifice and money vs comfort. For some the sacrifice is well worth the money they save.. and for some it's just not plausible and reasonably so (family, friends, etc).

 

[LaughingGas]

I am very impressed that you can juggle work while maintaining such a good grades!.
I know it's hard to picture, but try to imagine yourself 10, 20 or 30 years from now. Will being a dentist be worthy to you?
I had different type of struggles, and some, not even remotely comparable to yours. But what got me going is seeing myself happy for the following decades if I work in this field.
Just hang in there!

 

[romoxx23]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJKmXtoMI5s&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL4E784EC0770935C0

Watch that, and ponder it. It has helped me when balancing the many plates of life.

 

[dentalWorks]

Hey guys, First off thanks for all the helpful posts throughout the board.

So here is my situation. Currently a junior at my state university. 3.8 cGPA, 4.0 sGPA. I have had zero financial support since I was 16 years old. I work 30-40hrs a week plus school, among other stuff I have to deal that I won't mention. This all is just taking such a toll on me. It has me wondering if I really want to go into all this debt and stay in school for another 5-7 years. I have never come into a situation in my life where I have wanted to give up so much. It is not like me. I have overcome so much and have always been very determined in everything i have done.

I love dentistry. I could absolutely see myself being very successful and enjoying my life but I am not sure if I want to endure the next 5+ years. The most important thing for me is being able to support my family and provide what my parents could not. I am not saying money is everything but it certainly is something. I set a goal for myself when I was young (~12) that I wanted to someday make at least $150k. It's not a ton but enough to live comfortably and support my family.

So I guess my question is what advice do you guys have? Do I keep plugging away. Or do I settle for something else? Even a dentist I shadowed recently was going on and on about the ridiculous amount of debt. He stated how great dentistry is several times but also made a point to mention how starting 6+ years behind financially (salary, investments, etc) is a serious concern.

Another question for you guys: If you were not going into dentistry what would you do?

Thanks for any input.

I am keeping tabs on many of the recent graduates, especially from last years 2012 class. About 10+ of them seem happy with their jobs and pay. Now I understand thats a very small pool (and its only for Michigan base), but, the general consensus (and seems reasonable) is that as a new graduate, you won't make more than 100-120k a year. But once your hand speeds up and your diagnosis skills improve, you'll see a jump in salary to 150K+, and that usually takes anywhere 6-18 months after graduation (no AEGD involvement)

Now there are also others that are MISERABLE because they are working for a place that goes against their ethics (aggressive treatment plans written up by the owner and forces the associate dentist to do "unnecessary" but high-paying procedures)

Right out of DS, IMO, find a good and honest place to work, it doesnt have to pay alot, but if ur happy and u speed up ur skills, the money will come.

Another thing, i know 500k debt is alot.....but a "business" venture that costs such and returns 150K+ a year is still a good investment.

 

[Teeths]

I am keeping tabs on many of the recent graduates, especially from last years 2012 class. About 10+ of them seem happy with their jobs and pay. Now I understand thats a very small pool (and its only for Michigan base), but, the general consensus (and seems reasonable) is that as a new graduate, you won't make more than 100-120k a year. But once your hand speeds up and your diagnosis skills improve, you'll see a jump in salary to 150K+, and that usually takes anywhere 6-18 months after graduation (no AEGD involvement)

Now there are also others that are MISERABLE because they are working for a place that goes against their ethics (aggressive treatment plans written up by the owner and forces the associate dentist to do "unnecessary" but high-paying procedures)

Right out of DS, IMO, find a good and honest place to work, it doesnt have to pay alot, but if ur happy and u speed up ur skills, the money will come.

Another thing, i know 500k debt is alot.....but a "business" venture that costs such and returns 150K+ a year is still a good investment.

 

[ToothbrushBuddy]

I am keeping tabs on many of the recent graduates, especially from last years 2012 class. About 10+ of them seem happy with their jobs and pay. Now I understand thats a very small pool (and its only for Michigan base), but, the general consensus (and seems reasonable) is that as a new graduate, you won't make more than 100-120k a year. But once your hand speeds up and your diagnosis skills improve, you'll see a jump in salary to 150K+, and that usually takes anywhere 6-18 months after graduation (no AEGD involvement)

Now there are also others that are MISERABLE because they are working for a place that goes against their ethics (aggressive treatment plans written up by the owner and forces the associate dentist to do "unnecessary" but high-paying procedures)

Right out of DS, IMO, find a good and honest place to work, it doesnt have to pay alot, but if ur happy and u speed up ur skills, the money will come.

Another thing, i know 500k debt is alot.....but a "business" venture that costs such and returns 150K+ a year is still a good investment.

You could do the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps after becoming a dentist. They give dentists a $70k sign-on bonus for a 4-year commitment you get to choose which site you work at, they pay for your food and housing and give you at least $80k starting salary, and if you work for an Indian Health Services site you get $20k off your loans plus $4k towards loans interest every year that you work there. This would be an ethical place to work until you increase your speed and then you can open your own practice after the 4 years. That's what I'm going to do.

 

[dentalWorks]

You could do the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps after becoming a dentist. They give dentists a $70k sign-on bonus for a 4-year commitment you get to choose which site you work at, they pay for your food and housing and give you at least $80k starting salary, and if you work for an Indian Health Services site you get $20k off your loans plus $4k towards loans interest every year that you work there. This would be an ethical place to work until you increase your speed and then you can open your own practice after the 4 years. That's what I'm going to do.

I've thought about those places... most of the Michigan locations I looked at are booked. Some of them are referred to as a "medicaid mill" ~ seeing 30+ patients a day and the bulk of your work is extractions, fillings, and dentures. It isn't a bad place to work, but they pay very little (compared to being an associate)...

If I can find a position with NHSC that pays me as little as 100k a year, then yes, its worth it. 2 years later, they pay 60k tax free towards your student loans. Less than 90k and (I'd have to double check the math) but, I think its not worth it.