Go Into Medicine For Money!

[Doudline]

I assumed $10K debt from undergrad. $70K per year for med school and 6.8% interest.

Year 1:$10K+70K=$80K
Year 2: $80K+70K+6.8% interest about= 160K
Year 3: 160K+70K+6.8% interest about=240K
Year 4: 240K+70K+6.8% interest about=320K --age 26

with 6.8% annual interest the number come out to
Residency Y1: 345K
Residency Y2: 368K
Residency Y3: 393.9K
Residency Y4: 420.66K ---age 30



I assumed that the individual did not pay off any part of loans during residency.

Look at this for actual numbers:

https://www.aamc.org/download/152968/data

(The numbers are most definitely skewed down, but still, it's half what you propose).

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[Plue00]

What do you mean? When I referred to the top schools (i.e. law/business), I was referring to the top in their respective field not the school overall.

For example, NYU law is top notch and better than most Ivy law schools, so it is easily top tier for law school. But the undergrad would not be considered as good.

Ahh, okay. It just seemed like that's what you meant by your first post classifying schools like UCB/UCLA, etc as second class schools. Again, I merely skimmed this thread and didn't read a lot of it so my apologies.

 

[BABSstudent]

Comparing the first 9-10 years of each path (At age 30):

How in the world are you calculating $420,660 in debt for private medical schools?
Even $248,000 in debt through a public school seems a bit high for an estimate.

And if you are suggesting that the interest rate on loans is the cause of that, I think you'd better check your math.

Otherwise it's obvious that your long-term salary reaches $200K for doctors and $220K for both lawyers and business. Other perks and costs exist within each sector that could easily account for the mere 10% difference in annual pay.

Other than your $420K debt @ age 30, I think your data argues that medicine is a good choice financially.


Edit: lol I misread the BIG BOLD words that said medicine is a good financial choice. I'm still curious about the large in-debtness though.

$250k is reasonable for medical school. If you end up going OOS or to a private school, it could end up being even more. Heck, tuition at one school is $74k! That isn't including other things like paying for housing, food, etc.

Here is the budgeting amounts given by my medical school.

http://www.uwmedicine.org/Education...s/Financial-Aid/Pages/Budget-Information.aspx

At first, I thought I might be able to save a lot of that. However, after looking at how much housing is, I am pretty sure I am taking out the full amount each semester minus the money for books. I need health insurance too, so that cost will come right back.

I am an instate resident too.

That will come to $222,919. Add in my undergrad debt from a state college and it comes to closer to $238k. Interest will build on all of it. My school tries to give small scholarships to everyone instead of large scholarships to a few. So minus about $20k from the overall cost and I will end up being about $220 in the hole at the beginning of residency.

What would it have been like at OOS schools? I got accepted to an OOS school that would have cost a little more ($55k a year tuition) because I wouldn't receive taxpayer money to pay for part of tuition, but I would rather stay instate.

I also got accepted to a private school with a $100k scholarship and tuition then came to a little under what I would pay to stay instate but would require moving.

I would rather the estimations be extreme so you can see "worst case scenarios."

 

[circulus vitios]

Look at this for actual numbers:

https://www.aamc.org/download/152968/data

(The numbers are most definitely skewed down, but still, it's half what you propose).

Yes, it's skewed by full scholarships and parents who pay their children's tuition/cost of living.

 

[as1212559]

And here I thought I had free time. Enlightening.

 

[Dbate]

Look at this for actual numbers:

https://www.aamc.org/download/152968/data

(The numbers are most definitely skewed down, but still, it's half what you propose).

You're right, the med school financial situation may not be as bad debt wise. In that case, then it actually makes med school far and away the best decision for most students.

 

[Dbate]

Ahh, okay. It just seemed like that's what you meant by your first post classifying schools like UCB/UCLA, etc as second class schools. Again, I merely skimmed this thread and didn't read a lot of it so my apologies.

Sorry about that. I didn't mean to malign any schools. UCB and UCLA are great schools (i'm applying to UCLA for med school), but when you order things by tier it ends up being somewhat insulting.

My apologies.

 

[Falconclaw]

You are seriously deluded if you believe that getting into (any) med school would translate to being at the top of your field in anything else You do know that the medical schools in the USA have an acceptance rate of 50%, right? That all the hoops to jump through speak mostly about your determination and only moderately about your smarts? Medical school isn't astronaut training, uh.

Actually, the average business school acceptance rate is 50%, law school is 35% and med school is 9%.

A bit provocatively titled, as I can only imagine doing something like medicine "for the money" is a recipe for misery. Also, who are these people who are debating between careers in finance, law, or business over medicine? I have never considered those first three and could not be happy in those settings, but that's just me.

That said, I agree with your conclusions Dbate, but a few thoughts (not directed at you but in general):

Regardless of compensation, medicine offers to the most secure future in terms of choosing where you want to live and hours you want to work of all higher-paying professions (depending on specialty, though. Nuclear medicine probably isn't one of those specialties if I learned anything from the recent 20 questions, but primary care and psych probably are). The "floor" of compensation is relatively very high in medicine (ie, the vast majority of physicians, even those in the lower 10th percentile of those who work full-time, still make a very good amount). Obviously this is not true with lawyers, who, on average, make a similar amount to nurses. If you consider T14 grads as a more comparable population, I would still argue that physicians have greater personal autonomy in terms of employment options whereas a T14 grad would be more at the whim of who offers them an attractive salary and the initial workload that entails. With finance, I could only imagine that personal autonomy is impossible in those regards.

So for that mythical person who is debating between those high level careers, I would agree that medicine is the best choice not only from a financial perspective but from a perspective of autonomy over your life as well (once training ends anyway).

Edit - Obviously crazy amounts of educational debt, which are becoming extremely common for medical students and will continue to become even more prevalent in the near future, throws the equation, especially if you compare it to finance out of undergrad with no debt.

I was certainly one of them. Not everyone who wants to go into medicine is a 100% altruist.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Yes, it's skewed by full scholarships and parents who pay their children's tuition/cost of living.

Full scholarship and parents paying living expenses crew checking in.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Actually, the average business school acceptance rate is 50%, law school is 35% and med school is 9%.

.

He means that out of everyone who fills out an AMCAs app, about 50% get in.

 

[KnuxNole]

I would have never wanted to step foot in finance or law whatsoever, even if I made a ton of money. Those would make me puke...I'd have no joy in my job and want to stab my eyeballs out

 

[Dbate]

I would have never wanted to step foot in finance or law whatsoever. Those would make me puke

Each requires different things.

I think business and law are certainly cleaner and more intellectually stimulating. I don't know anything about the actual practice of medicine, but med students and physicians have told me that it is rather formulaic.

I mean, if you're a surgeon almost every tonsil removal is probably going to be about the same.

But for law, each case is different and business is a very dynamic field.

 

[Dbate]

A bit provocatively titled, as I can only imagine doing something like medicine "for the money" is a recipe for misery. Also, who are these people who are debating between careers in finance, law, or business over medicine? I have never considered those first three and could not be happy in those settings, but that's just me.

That said, I agree with your conclusions Dbate, but a few thoughts (not directed at you but in general):

Regardless of compensation, medicine offers to the most secure future in terms of choosing where you want to live and hours you want to work of all higher-paying professions (depending on specialty, though. Nuclear medicine probably isn't one of those specialties if I learned anything from the recent 20 questions, but primary care and psych probably are). The "floor" of compensation is relatively very high in medicine (ie, the vast majority of physicians, even those in the lower 10th percentile of those who work full-time, still make a very good amount). Obviously this is not true with lawyers, who, on average, make a similar amount to nurses. If you consider T14 grads as a more comparable population, I would still argue that physicians have greater personal autonomy in terms of employment options whereas a T14 grad would be more at the whim of who offers them an attractive salary and the initial workload that entails. With finance, I could only imagine that personal autonomy is impossible in those regards.

So for that mythical person who is debating between those high level careers, I would agree that medicine is the best choice not only from a financial perspective but from a perspective of autonomy over your life as well (once training ends anyway).

Edit - Obviously crazy amounts of educational debt, which are becoming extremely common for medical students and will continue to become even more prevalent in the near future, throws the equation, especially if you compare it to finance out of undergrad with no debt.

Yeah this is a big issue, that probably won't be addressed any time soon. I don't know how to quantify the "costs" associated with being 27 and $150K in debt in residency working 80 hours a week, but I imagine they are very high.

 

[KnuxNole]

Each requires different things.

I think business and law are certainly cleaner and more intellectually stimulating. I don't know anything about the actual practice of medicine, but med students and physicians have told me that it is rather formulaic.

I mean, if you're a surgeon almost every tonsil removal is probably going to be about the same.

But for law, each case is different and business is a very dynamic field.

It definitely depends on the person. I can definitely see the interest in various fields, and there is something for everyone. There is monotony is every career, no matter where you go you cannot escape it! In medicine for example, every tonsillectomy may look the same, but there is variation.

For me, there is nothing interesting about law...nor something I would actually enjoy for a second. I mentioned what I would do to my eyes. Same with big business stuff....I'm not big into economic developments, growth, finance, blahity blah. Medicine is interesting to me, and something I would enjoy making a career of, hence going down this path.

 

[gettheleadout]

Haha Berkeley is "decent?"

 

[Anicetus]

.

 

[jr93]

I love when people compare the top 50 or 25% of each field. Argue all you want but a FM doctor is almost never unemployed and will make >120k pretty much always. Lawyers have a significant unemployment rate and there are thousands of lawyers out there making 60k or less. In the end though, who cares? Do what you want to do. You can succeed and be upper middle class in a number of fields. You guys should plan on saving and investing properly if you want to be rich, not have a super high salary. That's where the comfort comes from.

 

[Slickyfats]

I love when people compare the top 50 or 25% of each field. Argue all you want but a FM doctor is almost never unemployed and will make >120k pretty much always. Lawyers have a significant unemployment rate and there are thousands of lawyers out there making 60k or less. In the end though, who cares? Do what you want to do. You can succeed and be upper middle class in a number of fields. You guys should plan on saving and investing properly if you want to be rich, not have a super high salary. That's where the comfort comes from.

Some economists would disagree with you. To be fair though, the level of satisfaction with more money tends to slow down in growth on the higher ends.