Go to NYU or re-apply this June for a cheaper school?

[Namelessking]

Hi, so I thought that I would just go accounting and turn away from NYU but something is nagging at my brain to try and go through with dentistry. I was already accepted into NYU but would it be feasible to wait another year essentially and try for another, cheaper school (away from the northeast) by applying this June? I was kind of bummed and majorly disappointed that I didn't get into schools like Buffalo and Stonybrook this go since I thought my application was fairly competitive:

BCP - 3.86
Science - 3.80
non science - 3.65
total - 3.74

DAT - 22TS 22AA -- QR(22) GC(22) OC(21) PAT(24) CR(24) Bio(23)

I shadowed a little over 100 hours at both a general dentist and an orthodontist and I've been tutoring kids for over 7 years.

Would I have a chance at out of state schools? Schools up here are just ridiculously bloated in tuition:

UCLA
VCU
University of Missouri
any of the texas schools
UMichigan
UNC
Pittsburgh
Marquette
etc....


or would it be better to suck it up and deal with NYU's 450-500k tuition? Realistically with tuition like that I'd have to live with my parents till I'm 30 to really sledgehammer the debt since I'll probably be around 27 when I graduate. Taking the 3 years to work at the debt is the only way to really get the interest to back off and hit the principal hard. Thanks fellows.

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[eldmd_32]

Any of the Texas schools as an oos applicant would be one hell of a long shot...did you only apply to schools on NY? You really should've cast the net further out. There are plenty of schools that are oos friendly to northeast applicants. To answer whether you should stick with NYU or retry I really couldn't say. With stats like yours you'd def be able to get in elsewhere but you'd be delaying yourself a year. It's a risk regardless...

 

[blablabla1]

Personally would reapply (as long as the mythical blacklist isn't actually a thing). You can do better than NYU with those stats, you just need to apply to more OOS friendly schools.

Did you get interviews at Buffalo and Stony Brook?

 

[Namelessking]

Personally would reapply (as long as the mythical blacklist isn't actually a thing). You can do better than NYU with those stats, you just need to apply to more OOS friendly schools.

Did you get interviews at Buffalo and Stony Brook?

Nah, Buffalo stuck me on their waiting list right away and rejected me later on, and Stonybrook rejected me fairly late. My school sent my committee letters through in August (fairly late I'm guessing) even though I applied early June. I'm guessing I was on the bottom of the "pile" since some schools only look at your application once everything is in. This alone probably acted as a disadvantage in terms of my chances at getting accepted. I may just avoid the schools I applied to in 2016.

 

[Namelessking]

Any of the Texas schools as an oos applicant would be one hell of a long shot...did you only apply to schools on NY? You really should've cast the net further out. There are plenty of schools that are oos friendly to northeast applicants. To answer whether you should stick with NYU or retry I really couldn't say. With stats like yours you'd def be able to get in elsewhere but you'd be delaying yourself a year. It's a risk regardless...

My application in 2016 was nothing short of foolish and I went in ill prepared in terms of strategically choosing schools. I just chose the northeast schools in New York and Massachusetts base on proximity. I went in not paying much attention to tuition prices because I fell for the old dogma that dentists were rich and made 250k a year, ha. I now know that's just a pipe dream. And for a 450k price tag, I would definitely need a more realistic school. I did hear Maryland and Marquette were oos friendly.

 

[pgex2t]

I personally know someone at my previous post bacc who was affected by the "mythical blacklist" (and have read about other cases in previous threads). Hindsight is 20/20, but I'd still recommend against not attending as it may potentially set you back at least 2 years.

Here are two of the threads: Has anyone turned down an acceptance and got in the next cycle?

Expensive Private School, Touro, or reapply?

 

[wengerout]

I would just go to NYU.

 

[Incis0r]

I would flat out call some of those schools you listed and ask if turning down a previous acceptance to another dental school for financial reasons would hurt me in their consideration of my application (you can stay anonymous/don't have to say your name).

If you get a decent (5+) number of schools that say "Nope, that's totally fine" or "We don't mind," then turn down NYU and reapply.

Just keep in mind - for every year less that you are a dentist, you are losing one year of your highest income producing year.

So essentially, waiting 1 year might cost you $175K (based on a $250K pre-tax income). So make sure the other schools truly are cheaper.

 

[doc toothache]

You may be hard pressed to find a school that is keen on ambivalence on a chosen profession.

 

[Namelessking]

You may be hard pressed to find a school that is keen on ambivalence on a chosen profession.

I don't know, when you're talking about 450k + debt, it pays to be "ambivalent" over potentially becoming a slave to debt.

 

[Namelessking]

I would flat out call some of those schools you listed and ask if turning down a previous acceptance to another dental school for financial reasons would hurt me in their consideration of my application (you can stay anonymous/don't have to say your name).

If you get a decent (5+) number of schools that say "Nope, that's totally fine" or "We don't mind," then turn down NYU and reapply.

Just keep in mind - for every year less that you are a dentist, you are losing one year of your highest income producing year.

So essentially, waiting 1 year might cost you $175K (based on a $250K pre-tax income). So make sure the other schools truly are cheaper.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'm gonna do that ASAP tomorrow since a lot of their offices are closed at the moment. But hell, if I could actually hit a salary of 170k as an associate in NYC, which to my understanding is rare, I wouldn't mind NYU so much.

 

[doc toothache]

I don't know, when you're talking about 450k + debt, it pays to be "ambivalent" over potentially becoming a slave to debt.

My application in 2016 was nothing short of foolish and I went in ill prepared in terms of strategically choosing schools. I just chose the northeast schools in New York and Massachusetts base on proximity. I went in not paying much attention to tuition prices because I fell for the old dogma that dentists were rich and made 250k a year, ha. I now know that's just a pipe dream. And for a 450k price tag, I would definitely need a more realistic school. I did hear Maryland and Marquette were oos friendly.

It is hard to have much sympathy for someone who, by their own admission was "ambivalent" about "strategically choosing schools".

 

[allantois]

At what price point will people start to finally turn down these schools? In my opinion that point has long passed.

 

[Namelessking]

It is hard to have much sympathy for someone who, by their own admission was "ambivalent" about "strategically choosing schools".

Oh that's strange, I never recalled asking for sympathy. And I didn't have ambivalent feelings in 2016. I knew I wanted to go into dentistry but as stated, I didn't do enough research. That's not ambivalence, that's naivete. Unless you want to say something that's worth something, I'm gonna go ahead and ignore your posts from here on, cheers.

 

[doc toothache]

Oh that's strange, I never recalled asking for sympathy. And I didn't have ambivalent feelings in 2016. I knew I wanted to go into dentistry but as stated, I didn't do enough research. That's not ambivalence, that's naivete. Unless you want to say something that's worth something, I'm gonna go ahead and ignore your posts from here on, cheers.

 

[Namelessking]

At what price point will people start to finally turn down these schools? In my opinion that point has long passed.

Yeah, pretty much agreed there. I think many people, myself included, went in for the job security but those numbers still remain absurdly high... and quite frankly, it's disgusting that education has to be priced like that... only in the US -_-

 

[super frank]

You wanna go into accounting? bruh...

 

[Alpha Centauri]

It's a lot of money. If you want a dentistry career go NYU. You might not ever get in once you turn this down in future cycles

 

[Namelessking]

You wanna go into accounting? bruh...

Do tell...

 

[Incis0r]

It's a lot of money. If you want a dentistry career go NYU. You might not ever get in once you turn this down in future cycles

This is a major point, OP. What's higher on your priority list? A) becoming a dentist no matter the cost or B) avoiding $500K+ of debt, even if it may come at the cost of your dental career.

If your answer is A, go NYU. If your answer is B and there is something else you wouldn't mind doing professionally, reapply.

 

[super frank]

Go to NYU, work very hard and specialize.

 

[Alpha Centauri]

Another thing with NYU is that it is a great school, just expensive. However you will always be able to pay off the loan. You will never have to worry about unemployment or a sh*tty salary because you should always be making 6 figures minimum. If not, you are doing something wrong or selling yourself short. Stretch payments out to 20-25 years, consolidate and get a low interest rate a few years out, write off interest from your mortgage. As your experience increases so will your salary / take home income once you go private practice, as all clinical dentists should. You will NOT need to live off of 3000$ a month like all the sensationalist posters claim. Most of their figures assume a fixed income with a static interest rate and little to no family help/scholarships. Hell yeah 500k is a lot, but it by no means is impossible to tackle.

 

[MahiMahi]

This is a major point, OP. What's higher on your priority list? A) becoming a dentist no matter the cost or B) avoiding $500K+ of debt, even if it may come at the cost of your dental career.

If your answer is A, go NYU. If your answer is B and there is something else you wouldn't mind doing professionally, reapply.

@Incis0r always here with the good advice. This up here ^^. There is no guarantee that you'll be accepted next year. On a basic level, the people looking at your application will question your commitment to dentistry if you turned down an acceptance to a reputable school. You should also factor in the cost of losing out on a year of income (as well as your career/future life) by waiting another year to attend.

If you're OK with all of these factors, then go ahead and re-apply.

 

[Stanelz]

Careful not to disrespect the doc, the man has tenure here.

If I were you I would go but me nor anyone else here can make that decision for you. We can go all day back and forth with pro's and con's

 

[Medin2017]

Go to NYU, work very hard and specialize.

easier said than done

 

[periopocket]

Hi, so I thought that I would just go accounting and turn away from NYU but something is nagging at my brain to try and go through with dentistry. I was already accepted into NYU but would it be feasible to wait another year essentially and try for another, cheaper school (away from the northeast) by applying this June? I was kind of bummed and majorly disappointed that I didn't get into schools like Buffalo and Stonybrook this go since I thought my application was fairly competitive:

BCP - 3.86
Science - 3.80
non science - 3.65
total - 3.74

DAT - 22TS 22AA -- QR(22) GC(22) OC(21) PAT(24) CR(24) Bio(23)

I shadowed a little over 100 hours at both a general dentist and an orthodontist and I've been tutoring kids for over 7 years.

Would I have a chance at out of state schools? Schools up here are just ridiculously bloated in tuition:

UCLA
VCU
University of Missouri
any of the texas schools
UMichigan
UNC
Pittsburgh
Marquette
etc....


or would it be better to suck it up and deal with NYU's 450-500k tuition? Realistically with tuition like that I'd have to live with my parents till I'm 30 to really sledgehammer the debt since I'll probably be around 27 when I graduate. Taking the 3 years to work at the debt is the only way to really get the interest to back off and hit the principal hard. Thanks fellows.

I would probably go to NYU: Buffalo (300k) + 1 year lost income (125k) = 425k
Stony Brook = 350k + 1 year lost income (125k) = 475k

Oh and there is no garuntee you'll get into either.

 

[Medin2017]

I would probably go to NYU: Buffalo (300k) + 1 year lost income (125k) = 425k
Stony Brook = 350k + 1 year lost income (125k) = 475k

Oh and there is no garuntee you'll get into either.

also experience + speed as a dentist

 

[super frank]

At what price point will people start to finally turn down these schools? In my opinion that point has long passed.

PA is such a great career though!

 

[Incis0r]

At what price point will people start to finally turn down these schools? In my opinion that point has long passed.

According to ADEA's 2010 survey:

• 12,001 individuals applying for the first-year dental class.
• 4,947 enrolling

You would need to get thousands of people to become aware of the implications and stress that high debt can cause. SDNers are a very, very, very small portion of those 12,001 individuals.


Source: ADEA Survey of U.S. Dental School Applicants and Enrollees, 2010 Entering Class : American Dental Education Association

 

[ojyarumaru]

If you have a chance at a cheaper school, don't do NYU. I'm a D4 at NYU and it was hell and back. Def would not recommend.

 

[Likkriue]

If you have a chance at a cheaper school, don't do NYU. I'm a D4 at NYU and it was hell and back. Def would not recommend.

How do you plan to wipe out that NYU debt.

 

[allantois]

PA is such a great career though!

I also think it's overpriced. Last I checked on PA forums, some were complaining of repaying their $100,000 - 150,000 of debt. And that's on a salary compatible to an associate dentist.

According to ADEA's 2010 survey:

• 12,001 individuals applying for the first-year dental class.
• 4,947 enrolling

You would need to get thousands of people to become aware of the implications and stress that high debt can cause. SDNers are a very, very, very small portion of those 12,001 individuals.


Source: ADEA Survey of U.S. Dental School Applicants and Enrollees, 2010 Entering Class : American Dental Education Association

Yea unfortunately all these discussions on SDN and elsewhere are having very little overall impact. At least at my undergrad, debt never enters the conversation of any pre-health student. People get an acceptance to NYU (and other places) and run with it like they are set for life.

 

[super frank]

I also think it's overpriced. Last I checked on PA forums, some were complaining of repaying their $100,000 - 150,000 of debt. And that's on a salary compatible to an associate dentist.

Not a bad gig if you're down for taking orders from an MD and writing scripts all day!

 

[allantois]

Not a bad gig if you're down for taking orders from an MD and writing scripts all day!

PAs don't take orders from an MD unless they work in first assist or something of that sort

 

[super frank]

PAs don't take orders from an MD unless they work in first assist or something of that sort

That's true you don't need to take orders in family medicine.

 

[SnozzBerry]

You are probably screwed either way with dentistry bud. Stick with accounting or something else.

 

[SnozzBerry]

How do you plan to wipe out that NYU debt.

Probability expecting taxpayers to bail him out with some loan forgiveness plan. SMH at schools like NYU where this is really the only option for a good chunk of their students.

 

[schmoob]

Who is getting bailed out? Please explain because I don't see the logic.
I am familiar with IBR and PAYE/REPAYE, but I do not understand the bailout.

 

[Master Yoda]

Hi, so I thought that I would just go accounting and turn away from NYU but something is nagging at my brain to try and go through with dentistry. I was already accepted into NYU but would it be feasible to wait another year essentially and try for another, cheaper school (away from the northeast) by applying this June? I was kind of bummed and majorly disappointed that I didn't get into schools like Buffalo and Stonybrook this go since I thought my application was fairly competitive:

BCP - 3.86
Science - 3.80
non science - 3.65
total - 3.74

DAT - 22TS 22AA -- QR(22) GC(22) OC(21) PAT(24) CR(24) Bio(23)

I shadowed a little over 100 hours at both a general dentist and an orthodontist and I've been tutoring kids for over 7 years.

Would I have a chance at out of state schools? Schools up here are just ridiculously bloated in tuition:

UCLA
VCU
University of Missouri
any of the texas schools
UMichigan
UNC
Pittsburgh
Marquette
etc....


or would it be better to suck it up and deal with NYU's 450-500k tuition? Realistically with tuition like that I'd have to live with my parents till I'm 30 to really sledgehammer the debt since I'll probably be around 27 when I graduate. Taking the 3 years to work at the debt is the only way to really get the interest to back off and hit the principal hard. Thanks fellows.

If you don't want to go to NYU why did you apply there in the first place?

 

[allantois]

Who is getting bailed out? Please explain because I don't see the logic.
I am familiar with IBR and PAYE/REPAYE, but I do not understand the bailout.

PSLF

Actually there are very few public employers in dentistry, so no one should count on a bailout indeed.

 

[schmoob]

PSLF is not a bailout; it's an agreement. Working for the VA, military, FQHC, etc is not meant to be a way to dodge student loans. It's a program that is offered by the government that encourages public service. For dentists specifically, the earning potential is way higher in the private sector. This incentive is a means to attract those that would otherwise have no reason to choose public service.

I don't understand why people would judge those who decide to participate in programs like this, and label them as some sort of leech. (Not saying you did, but I have heard people say stuff like this)

 

[pete6277]

Abort. I repeat.. Abort. Do not give away your acceptance. If you do and wait for next year, there is no guarantee that you will get accepted to a cheaper school. I d highly recommend that you take it and start at nyu. But whatever you decide, good luck.

 

[SnozzBerry]

Who is getting bailed out? Please explain because I don't see the logic.
I am familiar with IBR and PAYE/REPAYE, but I do not understand the bailout.

The people who take a loan for dental school, then go on IBR or some form (I'm not talking public service forgiveness) and then never pay off their loan. At the the end of the period (whatever it is) their loan is "forgiven." The money for the loan came from somewhere and if they didn't pay it back in full with interest then the taxpayers fronted part of that bill.

 

[MahiMahi]

The people who take a loan for dental school, then go on IBR or some form (I'm not talking public service forgiveness) and then never pay off their loan. At the the end of the period (whatever it is) their loan is "forgiven." The money for the loan came from somewhere and if they didn't pay it back in full with interest then the taxpayers fronted part of that bill.

Ehh... you would have to pay taxes on the forgiven amount if that's your strategy. IBR takes 25 years. When you consider what 25 years interest plus minimum payments does to a loan (hint: very little)... the government does get paid back at the end.

 

[SnozzBerry]

Ehh... you would have to pay taxes on the forgiven amount if that's your strategy. IBR takes 25 years. When you consider what 25 years interest plus minimum payments does to a loan (hint: very little)... the government does get paid back at the end.

lol then why even have the program then? Why isn't it just repay your loan back ? You may be forgetting the time value of money. Or how some people are legit taking out $500k+ for dental school. I don't have the time to go over an example for you, but if any other more financially minded folks want to do that then go for it.

 

[schmoob]

The people who take a loan for dental school, then go on IBR or some form (I'm not talking public service forgiveness) and then never pay off their loan. At the the end of the period (whatever it is) their loan is "forgiven." The money for the loan came from somewhere and if they didn't pay it back in full with interest then the taxpayers fronted part of that bill.

If you do the math, you will see that no one is footing the bill. The individual will most likely pay more than they originally borrowed. The balance that is forgiven is not what they borrowed, it is mainly the interest that has accumulated which was charged by the government. After meeting the requirements the government set, they discharge the remainder of the balance (which they charged in the first place). That does not mean someone epse pays the bill for them. Then the borrower must take that forgiven balance and claim it as income for that year, and responsible to pay the taxes on it.
After 25 years, I assure you that the borrower paid back their debt.

 

[schmoob]

lol then why even have the program then? Why isn't it just repay your loan back ? You may be forgetting the time value of money. Or how some people are legit taking out $500k+ for dental school. I don't have the time to go over an example for you, but if any other more financially minded folks want to do that then go for it.

I am very familiar with Net Present Value. But even those who take out $500K will pay it all back and then some - even under IBR and forgiveness.

 

[SnozzBerry]

I am very familiar with Net Present Value. But even those who take out $500K will pay it all back and then some - even under IBR and forgiveness.

This is dependent on income throughout ones career. But with what you are saying, which I don't agree with entirely, even a better reason to never get into $500k+ debt for dental school.

 

[schmoob]

This is dependent on income throughout ones career. But with what you are saying, which I don't agree with entirely, even a better reason to never get into $500k+ debt for dental school.

No worries, it's just a friendly discussion.

The income of a dentist will very likely provide the ability to pay $500K over 25 years, plus the tax liability of the forgiven balance. Averaging payments of $2K a month, that's already significantly over $500K.

 

[SnozzBerry]

No worries, it's just a friendly discussion.

The income of a dentist will very likely provide the ability to pay $500K over 25 years, plus the tax liability of the forgiven balance. Averaging payments of $2K a month, that's already significantly over $500K.

But if you are an owner, and currently the vast majority of dentists are, then it is very easy to fudge your "income" to artificially deflate it to take advantage of these types of payback programs. The people in these programs very much have an incentive to do exactly this, which isn't illegal, to decrease their repayment overall. @LLUDDS15 does exactly this. And many many others. Not saying that they are wrong, just another variable in the equation we are both talking about.