Got a C+ in Calculus I... Am I screwed?

[Cardinalcuevas]

So I just finished my first semester at WashU and I got essentially 3 A's in Gen Chem Lab, Philosophy, and a 3 Credit Seminar Class, a B+ in General Chemistry, and a C+ in Calculus I. It's not the fact that I didn't study for my classes or have my motivation, I studied for 5 days straight for Calculus I Final Exam and did not do nearly as well as thought. I know it's my first semester but I am concerned for my future because of this one class that was badly taught and due to a number of external factors, that was the grade I received. I realize that this is very forward thinking and I know I can do better next semester now that I have the experience, however, I feel as if this is like adding a brick in front of me and with time, that brick becomes a wall. Can I save my GPA? Can I still be competitive at top medical schools? Am I screwed? These are all questions I do not have the answers to at this time, but would HIGHLY appreciate any and all advice on this matter or personal success stories to cheer me up in this time of dire need. Thanks

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Princeton Medical Student]

No

 

[bananafish94]

I know it's my first semester but I am concerned for my future because of this one class that was badly taught and due to a number of external factors, that was the grade I received.

In the grand scheme of things, one class will not make much of a difference in your GPA, especially if you are a freshman. This attitude, on the other hand, will. You need to take ownership of the grade that you earned and identify what you need to improve.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

Can you save your GPA? To an extent.
Will you still be competitive at top medical schools? No

 

[Cardinalcuevas]

No

No to what question posed?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You got a C+ because you earned a C+. If you had learned the material better, you would have done better. Welcome to college, where the professors aren't there to make sure you get all As out of fear that your parents will come complaining to the school. Drop the entitled attitude. That doesn't look good in med school applicants.

A C+ won't kill your overall GPA, but it probably won't look good to the top schools.

 

[Penguin94]

In my opinion, you still might be competitive. This depends on how you do the next few years of college though and the rest of your app. I know a person who got only Bs and Cs her first semester, but then straight As the rest of college. (She had a personal reason explaining those first semester grades though.) She now goes to a top school and had interviews at many others.
You're still a freshman. Just focus on doing as best as you can from this point forward.

 

[efle]

Calc is notorious for being poorly taught at WashU, and GenChem first semester is a bunch of intro quantum completely unlike any of the other semesters of prereq. You need to do better, but many people find those couple classes especially hard and have success with Bio/Chem 2/the rest. Be one of them!

 

[DrGoon]

Idk I thought Calc I and Gen Chem 1 were the easiest premed classes. Physics is going to bend you over if you actually gave 100% in these classes

 

[Lawpy]

Idk I thought Calc I and Gen Chem 1 were the easiest premed classes. Physics is going to bend you over if you actually gave 100% in these classes

At WashU? Because difficulty of prereqs is university-specific, and so, Calc I and Gen Chem are supposedly a lot more difficult at WashU.

 

[aldol16]

Can you save your GPA? To an extent.
Will you still be competitive at top medical schools? No

Second statement not true. I have had students with C's in one or more intro-level courses early on in their college careers become very successful at getting interviews at top schools.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Idk I thought Calc I and Gen Chem 1 were the easiest premed classes. Physics is going to bend you over if you actually gave 100% in these classes

Difficulty of prereqs is university and student specific. Physics required very little effort on my part. I went to lecture for the exams and barely studied. Chem is another story. Haven't taken ochem yet, so we'll see how that monstrosity goes.

At WashU? Because difficulty of prereqs is university-specific, and so, Calc I and Gen Chem are supposedly a lot more difficult at WashU.

I agree with the sentiment, but at some point the blame is on the student. I taught myself abstract algebra and real analysis and did very well in both of those courses. Calc 1 is not that difficult to teach yourself (also had a crappy prof for that course), and you can definitely get yourself a B+ or so on your own.

 

[DrGoon]

Calc 1 is not a hard class. I only went to 30-40% of classes and taught it to myself out of the book. Gotta take responsibility for not being able to master that material

 

[DrGoon]

Difficulty of prereqs is university and student specific. Physics required very little effort on my part. I went to lecture for the exams and barely studied. Chem is another story. Haven't taken ochem yet, so we'll see how that monstrosity goes.



I agree with the sentiment, but at some point the blame is on the student. I taught myself abstract algebra and real analysis and did very well in both of those courses. Calc 1 is not that difficult to teach yourself (also had a crappy prof for that course), and you can definitely get yourself a B+ or so on your own.

Yeah I agree; Physics was easy for me too. But for students that dont understand Calc 1 or Gen Chem 1, Physics is going to destroy them.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah I agree; Physics was easy for me too. But for students that dont understand Calc 1 or Gen Chem 1, Physics is going to destroy them.

Unless they take the easy way out and take algebra based physics.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

Second statement not true. I have had students with C's in one or more intro-level courses early on in their college careers become very successful at getting interviews at top schools.

Unless this student gets an insane MCAT and very good ECs, not to mention near 4.0 GPA for the rest of college, he or she won't get into a top medical school. The average GPA for top schools is 3.93, 3.94, 3.88, etc. To tell students they ok with getting C's is pretty misleading. Will one bad score hurt you? Maybe, maybe not. But the student also got a B+. These grades will affect GPA for sure.

 

[benjamin94559]

If you tryna get into Haahhvad you basically need to keep a 4.0 for the rest of college and/or have a really crazy life story so you'd better figure out what went wrong ASAP. (i havent crunched the numbers but I think if you had like a 3.9 for the rest of college you'd end up with like a 3.8ish?) you also need to do well on your mcat.

you're down but not totally out yet

 

[aldol16]

Unless this student gets an insane MCAT and very good ECs, not to mention near 4.0 GPA for the rest of college, he or she won't get into a top medical school. The average GPA for top schools is 3.93, 3.94, 3.88, etc. To tell students they ok with getting C's is pretty misleading. Will one bad score hurt you? Maybe, maybe not. But the student also got a B+. These grades will affect GPA for sure.

Yes, of course this needs some qualifying. A student who averages a 3.3 really isn't competitive for a top school. But does one or two C+'s sink you for a top school? No. To say that it does without qualification is equally misleading. The top schools care more about one's narrative than about stats. If, despite the C, the student can achieve an overall 3.7 GPA and get a good MCAT score, that student will be competitive for the top schools. Especially if that C came early on during undergrad, as with OP. Top schools also care about pedigree. WashU is a good school.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

Yes, of course this needs some qualifying. A student who averages a 3.3 really isn't competitive for a top school. But does one or two C+'s sink you for a top school? No. To say that it does without qualification is equally misleading. The top schools care more about one's narrative than about stats. If, despite the C, the student can achieve an overall 3.7 GPA and get a good MCAT score, that student will be competitive for the top schools. Especially if that C came early on during undergrad, as with OP. Top schools also care about pedigree. WashU is a good school.

If this were true then why are the GPA/MCAT scores so high for the top schools?

 

[Nommonnom]

If this were true then why are the GPA/MCAT scores so high for the top schools?

The numbers are high in the sense that few applicants have the numbers, maybe 700 out of 50,000. However, because class sizes are small they only need 10 people with high stats for a high 90%ile or 50 people for a high median when there might be 700 people with those stats in the pool. So you need to hit the numbers at a baseline, but 50 out of 700 is still awful odds.

If the schools were competitive in the bottom half of their classes the competition would be inverted: schools would have to compete for applicants. But because of the way stats are published the schools do not bother competing in the bottom half of their classes.

 

[Lawpy]

The responses in the poll and in this thread are disappointing. One C+ is not going to hold anyone back from getting into top schools. Neither will few C's/C+'s. The importance of GPA is being dangerously inflated, when more important factors like GPA trends and MCAT scores matter. Someone with an initial poor start in transitioning to college still has at least 7 semesters remaining to work hard and maintain a near-4.0 performance.

To say that getting a C+ will prevent someone from getting into top schools is inaccurate and misleading.

 

[aldol16]

If this were true then why are the GPA/MCAT scores so high for the top schools?

HMS has 10th/90th GPA and MCAT of 3.73-4 and 33-41. Stanford has 3.67-3.99 and same MCAT. Hopkins has 3.75-4 and 33-40 MCAT. Now let's go down to Cornell, which is currently #18 as per US News. Cornell has 3.62-3.99 and 32-40 MCAT. Do you still think that these top schools will care about one or two C's early on in your undergraduate education?

To end up at 3.7 and cancel out one C, one needs 6 A's in credit hour-equivalent courses.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

HMS has 10th/90th GPA and MCAT of 3.73-4 and 33-41. Stanford has 3.67-3.99 and same MCAT. Hopkins has 3.75-4 and 33-40 MCAT. Now let's go down to Cornell, which is currently #18 as per US News. Cornell has 3.62-3.99 and 32-40 MCAT. Do you still think that these top schools will care about one or two C's early on in your undergraduate education?

Yeah I do think, actually. It's funny you gave a range without giving an average. Those with the 3.62 GPAs are probably the students that have the 38s on the mcat.

 

[aldol16]

Yeah I do think, actually. It's funny you gave a range without giving an average. Those with the 3.62 GPAs are probably the students that have the 38s on the mcat.

Not funny. You already gave them so I don't need to be redundant. I went off the MSAR.

And that bolded part? Sorry, that's not how this process works at those schools. Again, these schools care about narratives. There's no such thing as "Oh, he's only got a 3.6 so he has to have a 38 MCAT in order for us to consider him."

 

[Panis et Circenses]

Not funny. You already gave them so I don't need to be redundant. I went off the MSAR.

And that bolded part? Sorry, that's not how this process works at those schools. Again, these schools care about narratives. There's no such thing as "Oh, he's only got a 3.6 so he has to have a 38 MCAT in order for us to consider him."

OK, you are right. Have a great narrative. MCAT scores and GPA don't matter at all! Keep getting C's you'll get into a top school no problem!

 

[aldol16]

OK, you are right. Have a great narrative. MCAT scores and GPA don't matter at all! Keep getting C's you'll get into a top school no problem!

You're arguing against a straw man. Nobody is saying that "MCAT scores and GPA don't matter at all" or that you can get into a top school if you "keep getting C's." My point is very short and simple, yet you keep choosing to ignore it. One or two C-range grades, especially early on in your undergraduate career, won't keep you out of a top school. If you're going to make a cogent argument, make it against that point.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

OK, you are right. Have a great narrative. MCAT scores and GPA don't matter at all! Keep getting C's you'll get into a top school no problem!

Not sure that's how RAA works. No one is saying GPA and MCAT don't matter. But a couple Cs are not going to kill you at the top schools if you have an otherwise excellent academic record and a great narrative. The top schools have hundreds of 4.0 automaton applicants. They want people they can use as examples of diversity.

 

[Panis et Circenses]

You're arguing against a straw man. Nobody is saying that "MCAT scores and GPA don't matter at all" or that you can get into a top school if you "keep getting C's." My point is very short and simple, yet you keep choosing to ignore it. One or two C-range grades, especially early on in your undergraduate career, won't keep you out of a top school. If you're going to make a cogent argument, make it against that point.

I think we're saying the same thing. It won't kill chances, but it CAN be detrimental if the trend continues. In my original answer I was going to type that, but got lazy. The short answer is that no one thing can determine acceptance. HOWEVER a very low gpa can definitely exclude an individual from entry into a top school.

 

[Lawpy]

I think we're saying the same thing. It won't kill chances, but it CAN be detrimental if the trend continues. In my original answer I was going to type that, but got lazy. The short answer is that no one thing can determine acceptance. HOWEVER a very low gpa can definitely exclude an individual from entry into a top school.

This changes your argument from what it was initially:

Can you save your GPA? To an extent.
Will you still be competitive at top medical schools? No

But glad an agreement was reached

 

[Panis et Circenses]

This changes your argument from what it was initially:



But glad an agreement was reached

The short answer is should have written is "it will be hard, and you will have to work hard and change habits", instead of "no".

 

[WedgeDawg]

What is your GPA right now?

The 10th percentile GPA for top 20 schools ranges from ~3.6 to ~3.7 while medians range from ~3.8 to ~3.9.

A GPA below 3.6 means that you will be out of luck in most cases.
A GPA below 3.7 means you're still marginally competitive at several of them.
A GPA between 3.7 and 3.8 means you're competitive enough.
A GPA of 3.8+ means your GPA will not be the reason you get rejected.

 

[Nommonnom]

You're all ignoring the fact that the student said he studied super hard for his classes and came up short. Yes people can overcome bad grades with hard work. I know of people who blew off first semester and performed somewhat similarly to the OP first semester, which it was an extraordinary struggle to recover from, but possible.

However, if he already worked hard first semester, then he has a more fundamental problem, which he needs to figure out before he can think about "top schools." It is unlikely for him to flip a switch and get all A's if he does not know which switch to flip--he needs to learn how to get A's in BCPM before he thinks about anything else.

 

[m2regen]

You'll be fine, just take easy classes, research professors in advance, and do well in future.

Source: I did my undergrad at WashU.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You're all ignoring the fact that the student said he studied super hard for his classes and came up short. Yes people can overcome bad grades with hard work. I know of people who blew off first semester and performed somewhat similarly to the OP first semester, which it was an extraordinary struggle to recover from, but possible.

However, if he already worked hard first semester, then he has a more fundamental problem, which he needs to figure out before he can think about "top schools." It is unlikely for him to flip a switch and get all A's if he does not know which switch to flip--he needs to learn how to get A's in BCPM before he thinks about anything else.

What I think is more telling is that he blamed his C+ on everything but himself.

 

[aldol16]

I think we're saying the same thing. It won't kill chances, but it CAN be detrimental if the trend continues. In my original answer I was going to type that, but got lazy. The short answer is that no one thing can determine acceptance. HOWEVER a very low gpa can definitely exclude an individual from entry into a top school.

Okay, that's great then. If a trend of C's continues, then I think it would be safe and obvious to say that it could very well exclude an individual from medical school completely, much less a top school. But OP is young and there is still a long path ahead, so much can happen in terms of academics.

 

[aldol16]

You're all ignoring the fact that the student said he studied super hard for his classes and came up short. Yes people can overcome bad grades with hard work. I know of people who blew off first semester and performed somewhat similarly to the OP first semester, which it was an extraordinary struggle to recover from, but possible.

However, if he already worked hard first semester, then he has a more fundamental problem, which he needs to figure out before he can think about "top schools." It is unlikely for him to flip a switch and get all A's if he does not know which switch to flip--he needs to learn how to get A's in BCPM before he thinks about anything else.

This certainly is a valid concern; however, many students do end up turning their academic lives around after the first semester of college. First semester can be hard for several reasons and adjusting to being away from home for the first time might be difficult. Studying "super hard" in high school is definitely different from studying "super hard" in college - especially at a place like WashU. But turning around after first semester or even the first year is not uncommon - hence the fabled upward trend.

As to the specifics, perhaps @efle who I believe has more specific experience with WashU could contribute some useful insights?

 

[Doggo]

I withdrew from calc in college (I'm assuming a W is worse than a passing grade) and never retook it (I had AP credit anyways). I'll be attending med school next fall.

 

[Yorick]

I got a C- in freshman year 2nd semester bio (cell/molec bio), retook it for an A and I'm now sitting with 3 acceptances and interviews at 3 top 20 med schools. My GPA ended in a solid 3.7-3.8 range. My EC's are up to par of course, but I learned from what went wrong that semester to do well the rest of college.

If you can change what went wrong and have good/great extracurriculars, (and great MCAT) you may have a solid shot of getting into a 'top tier' med school, but if you don't already have this mindset, you should learn to be happy with going to any med school.

 

[DoctHouse]

Unless this student gets an insane MCAT and very good ECs, not to mention near 4.0 GPA for the rest of college, he or she won't get into a top medical school. The average GPA for top schools is 3.93, 3.94, 3.88, etc. To tell students they ok with getting C's is pretty misleading. Will one bad score hurt you? Maybe, maybe not. But the student also got a B+. These grades will affect GPA for sure.

The fact that you actually think one C+ as a freshman undergrad will completely diminish your chances of getting into a top medical school is completely beyond me.

 

[m2regen]

No need to be so judgmental of OP.

We don't know their life and circumstances, and while the answer to his/her question seems obvious to the experienced, if you put yourself in the shoes of someone just starting out their academic life, it's not obvious until someone tells you.

Glad to see OP acknowledging a problem and seeking help. Keep going!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Cardinalcuevas]

Hey I really appreciate all of your advice. There are so many things that I will be applying and changing for the next semester and have the mindset to achieve better my next semesters. If I get a 3.3 my first semester(looks this way) and 4.0s, the next 5 until medical school applications, I can pull a 3.91. That's awesome. I REALLY hope that medical schools will understand that first semesters are easily the worst but I have learned that good narrative is what will define me for medical school applications. I just eagerly hope that mindset WILL translate into good progress from now on but this first semester has been a snowball effect of epic proportions and showed me my flaws and what not to do for classes. Some people have their **** together from the beginning and that's fantastic but I, like most of you, have wanted to be a doctor since I was a child. The fact that I didn't, doesn't make me a bad scholar, nor a bad applicant, but I would hope that medical schools do not just see a bad first semester and judge one based solely on that, but that they understand real life. I hope eagerly that I can fix myself. Thank you all for your comments.

 

[mw18]

The idea that a C+ will preclude you from acceptance at a top medical school is absolute nonsense. It certainly doesn't mean you will get accepted, as you will have to do very well from here on out. And maybe even just a little bit better than someone else who is applying to top schools, but if you do well and have a GPA in their range they won't look look back and see a C+ and reject you. You will have to do well on the mcat and have a great application, just like everybody else trying for top schools. But don't try for top schools, do your absolute best and work your hardest and hope for a medical school.

 

[SwordOfTheMorning]

My friend actually failed Calc 1 with a D, while doing dual enrollment in high school. He got accepted to UCLA as an OOS, ORM. Average gpa, high MCAT (retake).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Hey I really appreciate all of your advice. There are so many things that I will be applying and changing for the next semester and have the mindset to achieve better my next semesters. If I get a 3.3 my first semester(looks this way) and 4.0s, the next 5 until medical school applications, I can pull a 3.91. That's awesome. I REALLY hope that medical schools will understand that first semesters are easily the worst but I have learned that good narrative is what will define me for medical school applications. I just eagerly hope that mindset WILL translate into good progress from now on but this first semester has been a snowball effect of epic proportions and showed me my flaws and what not to do for classes. Some people have their **** together from the beginning and that's fantastic but I, like most of you, have wanted to be a doctor since I was a child. The fact that I didn't, doesn't make me a bad scholar, nor a bad applicant, but I would hope that medical schools do not just see a bad first semester and judge one based solely on that, but that they understand real life. I hope eagerly that I can fix myself. Thank you all for your comments.

One C+ in your first semester won't kill you. Medical schools want humans, not 4.0 robots, so focus on being a good human. Keep the motivation and drop the victim/entitled attitude, and you'll do great.