Got accepted into Caribbean Med school. Thinking of leaving pharmacy school...bad idea? Good idea?

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daehanminguk

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Hi all, after hearing a lot of about oversaturation in school, I researched other alternatives, took the MCAT, applied to a wide number of MD, DO schools. While doing quite well in first semester of pharmacy school, I recently learned I got accepted to only one medical school, but it’s in the Caribbean (SGU). For anyone who might have done something like this before, is this something I should even go through with? I understand the Caribbean schools is high risk, and that perhaps it might be better to apply to a PA or go nurse practitioner route because the time spent would be much less. But I am open to seeing what the community says. Is it also very difficult to matriculate from pharmacy school to PA or nurse practitioner school? Thanks so much in advance!


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Hi all, after hearing a lot of about oversaturation in school, I researched other alternatives, took the MCAT, applied to a wide number of MD, DO schools. While doing quite well in first semester of pharmacy school, I recently learned I got accepted to only one medical school, but it’s in the Caribbean (SGU). For anyone who might have done something like this before, is this something I should even go through with? I understand the Caribbean schools is high risk, and that perhaps it might be better to apply to a PA or go nurse practitioner route because the time spent would be much less. But I am open to seeing what the community says. Is it also very difficult to matriculate from pharmacy school to PA or nurse practitioner school? Thanks so much in advance!


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It might be risky but in carribean you might be able to bet on yourself. In pharmacy, even if you are the best student you will be unemployed.
 
It might be risky but in carribean you might be able to bet on yourself. In pharmacy, even if you are the best student you will be unemployed.

Don't go to the carribean. It's not worth the risk. Try a DO school or do a one year SMP at a school with good linkage.
PA is a great option if you have the clinical hours.
 
Hi all, after hearing a lot of about oversaturation in school, I researched other alternatives, took the MCAT, applied to a wide number of MD, DO schools. While doing quite well in first semester of pharmacy school, I recently learned I got accepted to only one medical school, but it’s in the Caribbean (SGU). For anyone who might have done something like this before, is this something I should even go through with? I understand the Caribbean schools is high risk, and that perhaps it might be better to apply to a PA or go nurse practitioner route because the time spent would be much less. But I am open to seeing what the community says. Is it also very difficult to matriculate from pharmacy school to PA or nurse practitioner school? Thanks so much in advance!

I attribute Caribbean as a "bad word" my kids may end up saying: Don't ever say it let alone go to it.
 
The big question you have to ask yourself is how much debt are you willing assume? Practicing as a family practice physician with a tremendous amount of debt ain't much better than slinging pills with debt. The only difference is the amount debt of between the one writing for Septra DS and the one putting it in a vial.
 
Hi all, after hearing a lot of about oversaturation in school, I researched other alternatives, took the MCAT, applied to a wide number of MD, DO schools. While doing quite well in first semester of pharmacy school, I recently learned I got accepted to only one medical school, but it’s in the Caribbean (SGU). For anyone who might have done something like this before, is this something I should even go through with? I understand the Caribbean schools is high risk, and that perhaps it might be better to apply to a PA or go nurse practitioner route because the time spent would be much less. But I am open to seeing what the community says. Is it also very difficult to matriculate from pharmacy school to PA or nurse practitioner school? Thanks so much in advance!


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Both are a gamble. If you go Caribbean med school, you can forget applying to any type of surgery speciality or Internal Med speciality. You will be limited to Primary Care or just be a General Internist. You also have a higher risk of failing STEP exams compared to your US colleagues due to the lack preparation from faculty. But if you make it out alive, you will get a job as a physician.

Pharmacy is a gamble too. You will have no job even if you are a stellar student.
 
I have five friends who graduated from carribean schools and they are doing fine now in California. Not sure why everyone is hating.
Not hating. Both are risky. But at least with Caribbean, you can bet on yourself at least.
 
I have five friends who graduated from carribean schools and they are doing fine now in California. Not sure why everyone is hating.
They were part of the 35-50% that made it out. Not great odds coming from the Caribbean especially with brand new MD and DO schools popping out everywhere and no increase in the residency spots. There will soon be a bottleneck which will further decrease the amount of Caribbean student that will make it out because US grads will always be favored.

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They were part of the 35-50% that made it out. Not great odds coming from the Caribbean especially with brand new MD and DO schools popping out everywhere and no increase in the residency spots. There will soon be a bottleneck which will further decrease the amount of Caribbean student that will make it out because US grads will always be favored.

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Interesting. How many new schools have popped up in the last 5 years? Is it due to physician shortage? Why aren’t Physicians opposing this? This is what is happening with pharmacy as well.
 
Hmmm. So I’ve given this a bit more thought. One of my friends went there to SGU and was able to survive term 5, and is doing pretty well. With regards to paying for SGU, we would be able to pay off everything. I also survived MSAP with an 80%. UIC’s Pharm program is pretty challenging, but I made it out with As and Bs (definitely wasn’t a cakewalk, and neither would Med school). But I guess I have nothing to lose other than my sanity. I’ve already exhausted most of my attempts at the MCAT. A lot of the nurse practitioner programs and physician assistant programs require classes that are within 5-7 years old. Mine are 10 years old and I have no desire to go back to retake all the pre-reqs. In retrospect, I can see that for me, this is truly the last resort. I’ve lived in Hawaii most of my life. I don’t see how this could possibly be any worse since I’m used to slow island life. Yes, mosquitos will suck. But I believe I’ve got what it takes to get this done.




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Both are a gamble. If you go Caribbean med school, you can forget applying to any type of surgery speciality or Internal Med speciality. You will be limited to Primary Care or just be a General Internist. You also have a higher risk of failing STEP exams compared to your US colleagues due to the lack preparation from faculty. But if you make it out alive, you will get a job as a physician.

Pharmacy is a gamble too. You will have no job even if you are a stellar student.

I would be fine with primary care and general internist (not into doing surgery at the end game). If luck should have it that I am able to do ophthalmology, even if it’s unlikely, I don’t think there’s any harm in trying. But I’ve always competed against myself. I think I’ll make it out alive heh. Survived so far at UIC so I don’t think it can get much worse (especially since we haven’t been taught and have to do self learning 100% of the time)


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Hi all, after hearing a lot of about oversaturation in school, I researched other alternatives, took the MCAT, applied to a wide number of MD, DO schools. While doing quite well in first semester of pharmacy school, I recently learned I got accepted to only one medical school, but it’s in the Caribbean (SGU). For anyone who might have done something like this before, is this something I should even go through with? I understand the Caribbean schools is high risk, and that perhaps it might be better to apply to a PA or go nurse practitioner route because the time spent would be much less. But I am open to seeing what the community says. Is it also very difficult to matriculate from pharmacy school to PA or nurse practitioner school? Thanks so much in advance!


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I have heard C. island schools described as "throwing a bunch of animals in a pit and waiting a few years and looking for the few survivors". I think it may be very competitive but if you are a competitive person I imagine it may be a good fit for you.

I know one person who went to C. schools and he did well and is a GI doc. n=1 though.
 
Interesting. How many new schools have popped up in the last 5 years? Is it due to physician shortage? Why aren’t Physicians opposing this? This is what is happening with pharmacy as well.
Yes, it's always about the physician shortage which is more of a distribution problem. Current physicians really can't do anything about it, and yes, I hope we don't turn like pharmacy. Hopefully there will be a stop in the MD and DO expansion soon because the residency spots really aren't increasing that much. For now we're up to 141 accredited MD schools and 35 DO schools.

In the last 5 years

New MD schools and their first class (usually anywhere from 50 to over 150 seats each):
Western Michigan University in 2014
California Northstate in 2015
CUNY in 2016
U. of texas Rio Grande Valley in 2016
Dell in 2016
Washington state in spokane in 2017
Mayo clinic scottsdale in 2017
University of Nevada in Las Vegas in 2017
California University of science in 2018
Nova southeastern university in 2018
Hackensack Meridian in 2018
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign in 2018
TCU and UNTHSC in 2019
Indiana University at Evansville in 2020

New DO schools and their first class (usually 150 students per class except some rare exceptions):
LUCOM in 2014
WCUCOM in 2014
VCOM-Auburn in 2015
VCOM-Spartanburg in 2015
Western U.-Lebanon in 2015
BCOM in 2016
NYIT-Jonesboro in 2016
ARCOM in 2017
UIWSOM in 2017
RVUCOM-Ivins in 2017
Touro-Middletown in 2018
ICOM in 2018
CHSU in 2020
Sam Houston State in 2020

Developing Medical Schools both MD and DO shows a list of 24 schools (12 MDs and 12 DOs) seeking accreditation right now.


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tbh given your choice between Caribbean med or pharmacy I’d avoid the 400k in debt and likelihood of unemployment when you don’t match into a residency and either retake classes and apply to us md/do or just go to trade school where you can make over 6 figures as a plumber working 5 days per week
 
tbh given your choice between Caribbean med or pharmacy I’d avoid the 400k in debt and likelihood of unemployment when you don’t match into a residency and either retake classes and apply to us md/do or just go to trade school where you can make over 6 figures as a plumber working 5 days per week

I just got a new boiler. I paid the wholesaler for the parts which were about $7,000. The labor was $3600, all money in his pocket for a couple days worth of work. This was the lowest price I could find. Other plumbers were charging $14,000-20,000 total.
 
I just got a new boiler. I paid the wholesaler for the parts which were about $7,000. The labor was $3600, all money in his pocket for a couple days worth of work.
Looks like we all chose the wrong field haha. At this point I could’ve graduated trade school like 2 years out of high school and been living the good life. That being said, definitely don’t regret my decision thus far but I’ll get back to you in a few years and see if I’ve changed my mind
 
Looks like we all chose the wrong field haha. At this point I could’ve graduated trade school like 2 years out of high school and been living the good life. That being said, definitely don’t regret my decision thus far but I’ll get back to you in a few years and see if I’ve changed my mind

My plumber went to vocational high school so it was free and there was no extra school required. No debt, just started working co-op during school and hired right out of school, then went on to work on his own.
 
My plumber went to vocational high school so it was free and there was no extra school required. No debt, just started working co-op during school and hired right out of school, then went on to work on his own.
Plumbing is definitely some thing pre pharms should consider. It's a dirty job but so is nursing. You can have a lucrative career and control your hours. You can make even more money if you work off hours. Calling a plumber for an emergency costs a lot of money.
 
Hi,
I haven't received any interviews from med school and planning to apply to a Carribean school. Please advise which school is good as everyone is stopping me to apply to a Carribean school. your friends are doing fine what that means? Some input, please.

Thanks.
 
Hmmm. So I’ve given this a bit more thought. One of my friends went there to SGU and was able to survive term 5, and is doing pretty well. With regards to paying for SGU, we would be able to pay off everything. I also survived MSAP with an 80%. UIC’s Pharm program is pretty challenging, but I made it out with As and Bs (definitely wasn’t a cakewalk, and neither would Med school). But I guess I have nothing to lose other than my sanity. I’ve already exhausted most of my attempts at the MCAT. A lot of the nurse practitioner programs and physician assistant programs require classes that are within 5-7 years old. Mine are 10 years old and I have no desire to go back to retake all the pre-reqs. In retrospect, I can see that for me, this is truly the last resort. I’ve lived in Hawaii most of my life. I don’t see how this could possibly be any worse since I’m used to slow island life. Yes, mosquitos will suck. But I believe I’ve got what it takes to get this done.




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“Nothing to lose but my sanity”, or 300k and 4-5 years with nothing to show for it
 
Imagine becoming an electrician and a plumber and living in a shared apartment with 4 others in a wealthy area? I guarantee you will get rich quick.
 
Carribean school is a horrible idea because of the low residence acceptance rate. Without a residency, an MD degrees is next to useless. Both may be gambles, but gambling on a Carribean MD school is a much more riskier proposition than gambling on a Pharm D. Residency acceptance rates for carribean schools is 50% (although that will vary depending on the school), whatever the pharmacist unemployment rate it is FAR less than 50%.
 
Imagine becoming an electrician and a plumber and living in a shared apartment with 4 others in a wealthy area? I guarantee you will get rich quick.

They would get richer by buying their own place and building equity. That's what my friend in undergrad did, he dropped out and became an electrician. Had minimal debt. Bought a multifamily, gutted it and rewired the electricity himself. Lives downstairs and rents the upstairs. The rent covers most of the mortgage. Bought a BMW with cash before the rest of us graduated. Over a decade later, he is better off financially than all of our friends who got PharmD, engineering and MBA degree.

He can't call himself Doctor, though. That is a big deal to a lot of people here.
 
What I’m seeing om SDN are some incredibly contradictory things. I’m seeing X is oversaturated but Y is saturated, and Z is too! Everything is relatively saturated. Look at law. I’m also seeing things like there are no jobs in pharmacy, yet there are. Might not be san francisco or San Diego. And I’m also seeing many doctors in my area from Mexico, Poland, Russia, and the Caribbean as well (SGU, Ross, AUC) doing pediatrics, internal medicine, anesthesia, etc. and it’s not like I’m shooting for competitive residencies anyway. I guess I’m going to take everything that’s said on here with a grain of salt.


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What I’m seeing om SDN are some incredibly contradictory things. I’m seeing X is oversaturated but Y is saturated, and Z is too! Everything is relatively saturated. Look at law. I’m also seeing things like there are no jobs in pharmacy, yet there are. Might not be san francisco or San Diego. And I’m also seeing many doctors in my area from Mexico, Poland, Russia, and the Caribbean as well (SGU, Ross, AUC) doing pediatrics, internal medicine, anesthesia, etc. and it’s not like I’m shooting for competitive residencies anyway. I guess I’m going to take everything that’s said on here with a grain of salt.


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Nothing matters but the odds if you getting a residency from the carribean which is less than 50. You need a lot of salt to season that
 
What I’m seeing om SDN are some incredibly contradictory things. I’m seeing X is oversaturated but Y is saturated, and Z is too! Everything is relatively saturated. Look at law. I’m also seeing things like there are no jobs in pharmacy, yet there are. Might not be san francisco or San Diego. And I’m also seeing many doctors in my area from Mexico, Poland, Russia, and the Caribbean as well (SGU, Ross, AUC) doing pediatrics, internal medicine, anesthesia, etc. and it’s not like I’m shooting for competitive residencies anyway. I guess I’m going to take everything that’s said on here with a grain of salt.


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If I were you, I would stick with Pharmacy (since already enrolled in a program) and finish it. Doing a residency, or getting another degree like an MBA/networking are keys to getting a good job as a PharmD.

Otherwise, I would enroll in an RN program (easier to get into vs PA school and aim for that NP school in the future). In a few years, you'll be done with school and have a good starting salary in a field that will only grow.

But it seems like you have already made up your mind so good luck in Grenada!
 
If I were you, I would stick with Pharmacy (since already enrolled in a program) and finish it. Doing a residency, or getting another degree like an MBA/networking are keys to getting a good job as a PharmD.

Otherwise, I would enroll in an RN program (easier to get into vs PA school and aim for that NP school in the future). In a few years, you'll be done with school and have a good starting salary in a field that will only grow.

But it seems like you have already made up your mind so good luck in Grenada!

Don't get an MBA.
 
If I were you, I would stick with Pharmacy (since already enrolled in a program) and finish it. Doing a residency, or getting another degree like an MBA/networking are keys to getting a good job as a PharmD.

Otherwise, I would enroll in an RN program (easier to get into vs PA school and aim for that NP school in the future). In a few years, you'll be done with school and have a good starting salary in a field that will only grow.

But it seems like you have already made up your mind so good luck in Grenada!

Dexter, thanks for your insight! 🙂


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Nothing matters but the odds if you getting a residency from the carribean which is less than 50. You need a lot of salt to season that

Gonna need Salt Bae then haha


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If I were you, I would stick with Pharmacy (since already enrolled in a program) and finish it. Doing a residency, or getting another degree like an MBA/networking are keys to getting a good job as a PharmD.

Otherwise, I would enroll in an RN program (easier to get into vs PA school and aim for that NP school in the future). In a few years, you'll be done with school and have a good starting salary in a field that will only grow.
@daehandminguk
If you really want to go to medical school, go to medical school. I wouldn't summarily dismiss the concerns raised by others regarding Carribiean medical schools. I would talk with recent graduate from those schools as well. My former classmates who went to (non-Carribiean) medical school have been happy with their decisions. I do not think doing a residency and practicing clinical pharmacy would have adequately scratched their itches.

Also, be very clear of why you are are considering medical school (For example, is it having more clinical knowledge, autonomy, or wealth, to practice medicine, etc). Not every MD practices medicine (some work in pharma; some are researchers), so your desired career outcome is really what's most important here.

The mid-level practitioner route is also a reasonable option, as mentioned by others above, especially if getting accepted into a quality medical school program is not an option. Again, I still think you should do more research regarding Carribiean medical schools.

Personally, I did additional clinical training and went to graduate school. I do not regret this decision one ioata. I am happy with my career options and despite the extra time spent, and it has been well worth the sacrifice.

Regardless of your choice, I think you have plenty of options, some better than others. However, even for those that are perhaps suboptimal, there are likely many ways to derisk them. What's most important is for you to know what is the best fit for you and to realize that you are not trapped. To answer that, you should look inward and realize that your career is not binary (great or it sucks). If you make a decision that doesn't feel right, you can always pivot into a great career. Good luck and have a great year.
 
Gonna need Salt Bae then haha


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Point is, Carib med students are unprepared for the rigors of medical school. This is because they are usually lower stat applicants who cannot get into a US school. If you have the drive and the smarts, you can succeed in a Caribbean medical school. However, that also means you should be able to succeed in taking the MCAT and perhaps an SMP/post-bac with a 4.0 GPA. Though it might take more time, doing this and going US is safer. If you can’t wait and want instant gratification, then go. I know people who made it back to US for residencies, but none of them recommend it if you can go US MD/DO. None of them.
 
My plumber went to vocational high school so it was free and there was no extra school required. No debt, just started working co-op during school and hired right out of school, then went on to work on his own.

I have friends and family that are plumbers....most make nowhere near as much as you seem to think they do, and it's a pretty gross and physically demanding job. It's a solid career, but definitely not as easy and high paying as you seem to be implying. Most plumbers will make in the 50-70k range. Six figures is definitely NOT the norm/is probably the top 1% of earners, even for master plumbers.
 
I have friends and family that are plumbers....most make nowhere near as much as you seem to think they do, and it's a pretty gross and physically demanding job. It's a solid career, but definitely not as easy and high paying as you seem to be implying. Most plumbers will make in the 50-70k range. Six figures is definitely NOT the norm/is probably the top 1% of earners, even for master plumbers.

I find that hard to believe with the amount they charge. I called a plumber for a job that took him half hour to do and paid him $200 bucks.
 
I find that hard to believe with the amount they charge. I called a plumber for a job that took him half hour to do and paid him $200 bucks.
Overhead? Who employs the plumber? He or she has costs to cover as well. They don’t just pocket the 200
 
Overhead? Who employs the plumber? He or she has costs to cover as well. They don’t just pocket the 200

Most of them work on their own and they get paid CASH.

Some small jobs I've hired him for:
Remove toilet + put back (30min) - $150
Install dishwasher + faucet (1 hr) - $200

Each time he comes, his phone is ringing and he has 4-5 other jobs lined up that day. He literally declines work because he can only do so many jobs in one day. You're telling me he only takes home $250-350/day??
 
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Most of them work on their own and they get paid CASH.

Some small jobs I've hired him for:
Remove toilet + put back (30min) - $150
Install dishwasher + faucet (1 hr) - $200

Each time he comes, his phone is ringing and he has 4-5 other jobs lined up that day. He literally declines work because he can only do so many jobs in one day. You're telling me he only takes home $250-350/day??

Jobs come in waves and are variable. You may do 5 jobs one day, then only 1 the next. Most jobs are small and you pocket $100 in profit here and there. The big profitable jobs are few and relatively rare (a decently maintained boiler should last 15 years in a home). Travel and gathering what you need to do a job takes time and money. Buying and maintaining equipment, tools and a work truck takes time and money.

Often, you arrive at a job and realize you need something else, and need to leave and go get it. This limits the number of jobs you can typically do daily. I'm not saying it's a bad job, but most simply dont pocket anywhere near six figures. Go research overall salary trends and you will see this is true.

It is kinda funny....my blue collar friends think white collars have it made (think our jobs are glamorous, in comfortable conditions, with money and jobs thrown at us, deemphasize the expectations and workloads we face, etc), and white collars romanticize the blue (romanticize working with your hands/doing something tangible, quote big bills theyve paid for work done and assume money and jobs are thrown at them, gloss over the working conditions and physical demands of their job, etc).

The only real truth is that most jobs aren't as sweet as those on the outside think, and most people think the other side has it much better.
 
I find that hard to believe with the amount they charge. I called a plumber for a job that took him half hour to do and paid him $200 bucks.

Man, with how much they charge at a pharmacy, they must make millions in profit a year. I paid $250 for my insulin, and all the pharmacist had to do was take it out of the fridge and put a label on it. $250 he got for 3 minutes of work. Why dont all pharmacists just open their own pharmacy?
 
Man, with how much they charge at a pharmacy, they must make millions in profit a year. I paid $250 for my insulin, and all the pharmacist had to do was take it out of the fridge and put a label on it. $250 he got for 3 minutes of work. Why dont all pharmacists just open their own pharmacy?

That's apples and oranges. You pay a plumber for the labor. Pharmacists don't charge for labor, you're paying the store for the product.
 
Hi all, after hearing a lot of about oversaturation in school, I researched other alternatives, took the MCAT, applied to a wide number of MD, DO schools. While doing quite well in first semester of pharmacy school, I recently learned I got accepted to only one medical school, but it’s in the Caribbean (SGU). For anyone who might have done something like this before, is this something I should even go through with? I understand the Caribbean schools is high risk, and that perhaps it might be better to apply to a PA or go nurse practitioner route because the time spent would be much less. But I am open to seeing what the community says. Is it also very difficult to matriculate from pharmacy school to PA or nurse practitioner school? Thanks so much in advance!


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The point here isn't that there are successful Carib grads. The point is how many additional obstacles to success you face by going to a Carib school.

The pool of US applicants from the Caribbean is viewed differently by Program Directors. The DDx for a Caribbean grad is pretty off-putting: bad judgment, bad advice, egotism, gullibility, overbearing parents, inability to delay gratification, IA's, legal problems, weak research skills, high risk behavior. This is not to say that all of them still have the quality that drew them into this situation. There is just no way to know which ones they are. Some PD's are in a position where they need to, or can afford to take risks too! So, some do get interviews.

Bad grades and scores are the least of the deficits from a PD's standpoint. A strong academic showing in a Caribbean medical school does not erase this stigma. It fact it increases the perception that the reason for the choice was on the above-mentioned list!

Just about everyone from a Caribbean school has one or more of these problems and PDs know it. That's why their grads are the last choice even with a high Step 1 score.

There was a time when folks whose only flaw was being a late bloomer went Carib, but those days are gone. There are a number of US med schools that will reward reinvention.

It's likely you'll be in the bottom half or two thirds of the class that gets dismissed before Step 1. The business plan of a Carib school depends on the majority of the class not needing to be supported in clinical rotations. They literally can't place all 250+ of the starting class at clinical sites (educational malpractice, really. If this happened at a US school, they be shut down by LCME or COCA, and sued.

The Carib (and other offshore) schools have very tenuous, very expensive, very controversial relationships with a very small number of US clinical sites. You may think you can just ask to do your clinical rotations at a site near home. Nope. You may think you don't have to worry about this stuff. Wrong.

And let's say you get through med school in the Carib and get what you need out of the various clinical rotation scenarios. Then you are in the match gamble. I don't need to say a word about this - you can find everything you need to know at nrmp.org.

You really need to talk to people who made it through Carib threshing machine (like Skip Intro or mikkus) into residency, and hear the story from them. How many people were in their class at the start, how many are in it now? How long did it take to get a residency, and how did they handle the gap year(s) and their student loans? How many residencies did they apply to, how many interviews did they get, and were any of the programs on their match list anything like what they wanted?

A little light reading:

Million $ Mistake

http://www.tameersiddiqui.com/medical-school-at-sgu

"Why didn't I Match?"

 
Man, with how much they charge at a pharmacy, they must make millions in profit a year. I paid $250 for my insulin, and all the pharmacist had to do was take it out of the fridge and put a label on it. $250 he got for 3 minutes of work. Why dont all pharmacists just open their own pharmacy?
That's a very simpleton way of looking at it. The cost of the parts for the job he did was negligible so it was pretty much pure profit.
 
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