Grade ceilings

[deleted804295]

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Hello,

If you've already calculated that you can no longer get an A in a class and you're stuck at an A- do you even try anymore?

I missed the grade ceiling by 4 points for one of my 2 credit labs and I'm wondering if I should even try for my last assignment. It's nearly impossible at this point to be brought down to a B+. But impossible to be brought to an A :/

 

[Microbug]

Nah.

 

[deleted804295]

Nah.

Thanks :/. The only thing keeping me from doing only half of the last assignment is the professor might miraculously change curve lines so a 92 is an A instead of a 94 so that more students can pass the lab.

I highly doubt it though. She might just lower the threshold but keep all other gradelines constant.

 

[efle]

Profs will sometimes be nice and give people a few free points if they are like 0.1% away from a cutoff. If they told you up front they have a strict no-rounding-up policy then I would not try too hard on the last assignment

 

[HomeSkool]

Hello,

If you've already calculated that you can no longer get an A in a class and you're stuck at an A- do you even try anymore?

I missed the grade ceiling by 4 points for one of my 2 credit labs and I'm wondering if I should even try for my last assignment. It's nearly impossible at this point to be brought down to a B+. But impossible to be brought to an A :/

Even if the outcome won't differ, you'll never regret having given your best effort.

 

[Lannister]

If there's another class that your time would be better spent studying for, then I'd put a lot less effort in.

 

[de Ribas]

Hello,

If you've already calculated that you can no longer get an A in a class and you're stuck at an A- do you even try anymore?

I missed the grade ceiling by 4 points for one of my 2 credit labs and I'm wondering if I should even try for my last assignment. It's nearly impossible at this point to be brought down to a B+. But impossible to be brought to an A :/

If you don't try enough, you might end up with B+. don't relax too much.

It's like those runners on track and field that sometimes slow down when they are first only to realize they finish second.

Relax after finish line.

 

[Robin-jay]

Hello,

If you've already calculated that you can no longer get an A in a class and you're stuck at an A- do you even try anymore?

I missed the grade ceiling by 4 points for one of my 2 credit labs and I'm wondering if I should even try for my last assignment. It's nearly impossible at this point to be brought down to a B+. But impossible to be brought to an A :/

You never know what academic information could be relevant down the road. Learn what you can. There's no cons to learning.

 

[Microbug]

You never know what academic information could be relevant down the road. Learn what you can. There's no cons to learning.

It’s a 2 credit lab class. Idk OP’s background but for anyone with background in research, a lot of lab classes don’t really provide new information. Sometimes it can be a waste of time but have to take it because of graduation requirement.

 

[Robin-jay]

It’s a 2 credit lab class. Idk OP’s background but for anyone with background in research, a lot of lab classes don’t really provide new information. Sometimes it can be a waste of time but have to take it because of graduation requirement.

Labs have their set of pros.

 

[Microbug]

Labs have their set of pros.

Like what

 

[begoood95]

Labs have their set of pros.

At my institution, I can't say I've gained much in the way of practicable lessons from any of my labs (from chem1-2, physics1-2, nor ochem).

The exception to this rule is microbiology-associated labs. Elementary things and minutia about aseptic technique and the like are things I probably wouldn't have learned in a hands-on manner unless I had taken them. On the other hand, I gained an innumerable amount of skills in my research lab.

Labs associated with run-of-the-mill prereqs? Not so much.

 

[Robin-jay]

At my institution, I can't say I've gained much in the way of practicable lessons from any of my labs (from chem1-2, physics1-2, nor ochem).

The exception to this rule is microbiology-associated labs. Elementary things and minutia about aseptic technique and the like are things I probably wouldn't have learned in a hands-on manner unless I had taken them. On the other hand, I gained an innumerable amount of skills in my research lab.

Labs associated with run-of-the-mill prereqs? Not so much.

You're making the assumption that course labs and research labs are completely different in the aspect of their content.

I'd argue that your research lab is just a longer and more depth lab than your course labs.

 

[begoood95]

You're making the assumption that course labs and research labs are completely different in the aspect of their content.

I'd argue that your research lab is just a longer and more depth lab than your course labs.

I don't see how that adds to your initial statement that there are pros to labs...

My course labs and research lab are completely different. While some of the labs we covered mirrored lectures (vaguely), they oftentimes were a "show & tell," like, "look, acceleration due to gravity is actually 9.8 m/s^2!" While that adds to my confidence in what we learned in lecture, it's not a strong pro to me.

In my research lab I've helped engineer different constructs of a protein to fit certain ends of investigation, cloned the appropriate plasmids into bacteria, expressed and purified the protein, got experience with mass spec and nmr, got experience with failure in research and continuing to attempt and solve those failed approaches, drafted manuscripts, mentored other undergraduates who were new to the lab...the list goes on and on, and course labs don't come close to touching this usefulness.

 

[Robin-jay]

I don't see how that adds to your initial statement that there are pros to labs...

My course labs and research lab are completely different. While some of the labs we covered mirrored lectures (vaguely), they oftentimes were a "show & tell," like, "look, acceleration due to gravity is actually 9.8 m/s^2!" While that adds to my confidence in what we learned in lecture, it's not a strong pro to me.

In my research lab I've helped engineer different constructs of a protein to fit certain ends of investigation, cloned the appropriate plasmids into bacteria, expressed and purified the protein, got experience with mass spec and nmr, got experience with failure in research and continuing to attempt and solve those failed approaches, drafted manuscripts, mentored other undergraduates who were new to the lab...the list goes on and on, and course labs don't come close to touching this usefulness.

I mean, if you only had science lectures and never had labs, it would be really hard to convince someone you ever even did science.

I guess I will argue that labs are pros for the following reasons (although this conversation doesn't really interest me too much tbh):

1.) Labs prepare you for research labs. How do you know you want to work in a research lab without knowing what it could entail?
2.) You learn how to "do" in labs, which is good because nearly all jobs require more "doing" than anything else.
3.) You learn how to work well with others, like glorified kindergarten, but still important.
4.) The content you learn in lecture is carried out in laboratories.
5.) They often help your overall grade when combined with lecture, exceptions do arise.

 

[Microbug]

I mean, if you only had science lectures and never had labs, it would be really hard to convince someone you ever even did science.

I guess I will argue that labs are pros for the following reasons (although this conversation doesn't really interest me too much tbh):

1.) Labs prepare you for research labs. How do you know you want to work in a research lab without knowing what it could entail?
2.) You learn how to "do" in labs, which is good because nearly all jobs require more "doing" than anything else.
3.) You learn how to work well with others, like glorified kindergarten, but still important.
4.) The content you learn in lecture is carried out in laboratories.
5.) They often help your overall grade when combined with lecture, exceptions do arise.

People probably have different experiences but almost all things you list above can be learned faster and better in an actual lab rather than class labs. The content in lab rarely sync up with lecture. Labs usually have very long hours (most of which is watching water boil or things to incubate) and I would argue that it takes time away from actually studying for lecture material.

 

[Robin-jay]

People probably have different experiences but almost all things you list above can be learned faster and better in an actual lab rather than class labs. The content in lab rarely sync up with lecture. Labs usually have very long hours (most of which is watching water boil or things to incubate) and I would argue that it takes time away from actually studying for lecture material.

So here is my experience: Students often don't understand the link between lecture and lab.

For example, there was a lab where students were told to do whole bunch of experiments to figure out what which compound underwent SN1 or SN2.

Originally, students don't understand how the reaction conditions really proved which pathway the reaction was tending to.

They just did the experiment, used basic logic to figure it out(lab book says the reaction is SN1 if said reaction does so-and-so), and then move on. They didn't understand how lecture, when mechanisms arose more in depth, were significant to what was learned in lab.

Also, I will say often times labs don't sinc up with lecture in terms of "what you learned in lecture that week will be discussed in lab". Often times, what you learned in lecture will show up in lab a week or two early or late. But its definitely there. The lab curriculum isn't just a random mess of random tasks.

And of course, experiences may differ.

 

[Microbug]

So here is my experience: Students often don't understand the link between lecture and lab.

For example, there was a lab where students were told to do whole bunch of experiments to figure out what which compound underwent SN1 or SN2.

Originally, students don't understand how the reaction conditions really proved which pathway the reaction was tending to.

They just did the experiment, used basic logic to figure it out(lab book says the reaction is SN1 if said reaction does so-and-so), and then move on. They didn't understand how lecture, when mechanisms arose more in depth, were significant to what was learned in lab.

Also, I will say often times labs don't sinc up with lecture in terms of "what you learned in lecture that week will be discussed in lab". Often times, what you learned in lecture will show up in lab a week or two early or late. But its definitely there. The lab curriculum isn't just a random mess of random tasks.

And of course, experiences may differ.

Since most students don't bother figuring out the connection anyways, is there really point in making us sit in for a 6 hour orgo lab.

 

[Robin-jay]

Since most students don't bother figuring out the connection anyways, is there really point in making us sit in for a 6 hour orgo lab.

Yes, because my department makes me teach it, so you better sit there and learn. 😉

 

[ciestar]

Since most students don't bother figuring out the connection anyways, is there really point in making us sit in for a 6 hour orgo lab.

Nope. Could explain why less med schools are even requiring much organic chemistry and the emphasis has gone to biochem.

 

[Robin-jay]

Nope. Could explain why less med schools are even requiring much organic chemistry and the emphasis has gone to biochem.

The main issue with less emphasis on organic chemistry is that you direly need organic chemistry to understand biochem.

There's only so much organic chemistry you can cut out because every time you do, you shorten the possibilities in what you learn in biochem.

 

[ciestar]

The main issue with less emphasis on organic chemistry is that you direly need organic chemistry to understand biochem.

There's only so much organic chemistry you can cut out because every time you do, you shorten the possibilities in what you learn in biochem.

Funny how knowing SN1 reactions did nothing for me during the first year of med school.

 

[Robin-jay]

Funny how knowing SN1 reactions did nothing for me during the first year of med school.

So, can you explain to me why an entire year of physics is a pre-req?

Biochemsitry definitely relies on a lot of understanding of organic chemistry, even if not ALL of organic chemistry is useful in biochem.

 

[ciestar]

So, can you explain to me why an entire year of physics is a pre-req?

Biochemsitry definitely relies on a lot of understanding of organic chemistry, even if not ALL of organic chemistry is useful in biochem.

I cannot tell you why, other than for the MCAT. Also thought it was unneeded as far as med school is concerned.

*shrug* I disagree. Based on what I had to learn about biochem in med school. Unless you've taken a medical school level biochemistry course, you cannot convince me otherwise. I didn't need to know structures, mechanisms to an extent...emphasis was based on knowing end products, some intermediates, and enzymes (because these deficiencies are huge). Not the how you got there.

Thanks for the underlining, I wouldn't have been able to comprehend your point otherwise.

 

[Robin-jay]

I cannot tell you why, other than for the MCAT. Also thought it was unneeded as far as med school is concerned.

*shrug* I disagree. Based on what I had to learn about biochem in med school. Unless you've taken a medical school level biochemistry course, you cannot convince me otherwise. I didn't need to know structures, mechanisms to an extent...emphasis was based on knowing end products, some intermediates, and enzymes (because these deficiencies are huge). Not the how you got there.

Thanks for the underlining, I wouldn't have been able to comprehend your point otherwise.

That's like saying general chemistry was useless.

You needed to learn general chemistry to eventually learn biochemistry.

I just don't think its plausible to expect students to be able to jump from general chemistry to biochemistry, without organic chemistry.

Emphasis helps. Probably got use to emphasizing after teaching so many students why they need to learn the general, organic, etc. courses.

 

[ciestar]

That's like saying general chemistry was useless.

You needed to learn general chemistry to eventually learn biochemistry.

I just don't think its plausible to expect students to be able to jump from general chemistry to biochemistry, without organic chemistry.

Emphasis helps. Probably got use to emphasizing after teaching so many students why they need to learn the general, organic, etc. courses.

Cool.

And no, maybe not. You're just overestimating its usefulness once you arrive to med school. Which is my point.

 

[Robin-jay]

Cool.

And no, maybe not. You're just overestimating its usefulness once you arrive to med school. Which is my point.

I don't expect organic chemistry to be useful in medical school, rather saying its useful for understanding biochemistry.

 

[Microbug]

But then again... the more we learn, the less I think I know... can we ever really fully understand anything?

 

[ciestar]

But then again... the more we learn, the less I think I know... can we ever really fully understand anything?

Nope, no way. I had a hard time letting go of this my first year of med school.

 

[Styrene]

Hello,

If you've already calculated that you can no longer get an A in a class and you're stuck at an A- do you even try anymore?

I missed the grade ceiling by 4 points for one of my 2 credit labs and I'm wondering if I should even try for my last assignment. It's nearly impossible at this point to be brought down to a B+. But impossible to be brought to an A :/

In undergrad, yes. In med school, **** no.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Even if the outcome won't differ, you'll never regret having given your best effort.

Unless putting in your best effort takes time away from a class where you either have a shot at an A or need to do well in to pass.

 

[HomeSkool]

Unless putting in your best effort takes time away from a class where you either have a shot at an A or need to do well in to pass.

Pretty sure I covered that in "if the outcome won't differ".

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Pretty sure I covered that in "if the outcome won't differ".

That's not what you wrote though. You wrote, even if the outcome won't differ, implying that if the outcome in the class won't differ. I'm referring to the outcomes in other classes.

 

[HomeSkool]

That's not what you wrote though. You wrote, even if the outcome won't differ, implying that if the outcome in the class won't differ. I'm referring to the outcomes in other classes.

You inferred something. It was incorrect.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You inferred something. It was incorrect.

I inferred something based on standard English conventions in what you wrote. You implied something you didn't mean. But it's okay. You clarified. Thanks. 🙂

 

[calivianya]

I'm going to jump on the labs are useless train. In my experience, we'd often cover a topic in lab after I'd already been tested on it in lecture. If labs can't run concurrently with lecture and I have to learn everything on my own before the test anyway, I don't see what the point is with covering it in lab after the fact.

There's enough material in orgo, physics, whatever that I believe the lab instructors could find an experiment to reinforce a concept being currently covered in lecture. They don't have to be three weeks behind all the time, and I think it's a disservice to the students that they are. It's not like I have enough to do - let's spend three or four hours that I could otherwise spend studying new material on a concept I already know.

I'd just half ass the last assignment, OP. Technically get it done, but put less than 50% effort into it... I'm sure you have other classes you could be doing things for.

 

[deleted804295]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I finished and turned in the assignment a couple days ago. I didn't half-ass it but I didn't go to TA office hours as I usually do to go over it before I turn it in.

We'll see how it goes 🙂.