Ross434

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blump said:
I know a guy working for a top NYC law firm with a fake diploma (from a different school than he went to). He stands no chance of getting in trouble, though, since if he is fired, they will have to prove he hurt their business. Just a random anecdote. Obviously it doesnt work this way in medicine.
 

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Ross434 said:
I know a guy working for a top NYC law firm with a fake diploma (from a different school than he went to). He stands no chance of getting in trouble, though, since if he is fired, they will have to prove he hurt their business. Just a random anecdote. Obviously it doesnt work this way in medicine.
I can't comment on your specific example, but your analysis of the downside of lawyer fraud isn't right. Actually, in the mid 1980s a major NYC law firm partner was discovered to have never graduated law school. Every client on every case he had ever lost had a potential claim against the firm for ineffective assistance of counsel. The guy was fired, charged with criminal fraud and sued into oblivion. Sounds like a pretty good "chance of getting into trouble" to me. Now most major firms make you provide an official transcript and a certificate of good standing from the state bar before you start handling cases.
 

eralza

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My brother's girlfriend is a marketing manager with a great firm.
Several years ago, while she was still in college, she decided that she really didn't need a degree to do marketing. So, she forged a degree, created an outstanding resume, and got hired at about $50K/yr (back in the 90's). Since then, she has transfered jobs several times and worked her way up to a management position at $100K/yr. Normally, I'd be apalled by such dishonesty, but after several years of contemplation, I've come to the same decision as she did..."you really don't need a degree to be a great marketing manager"!
 

gbiz

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You do to be a thoracic surgeon. He couldnt keep at one place for more then a year it most times.
 

tomorrowgirl99

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eralza, I am actually happy for your brother's girlfriend. She used her natural intelligence to get ahead in life. However, there is a big difference between a doctor and a marketing manager. Someone needs to properly train a doctor. They even stated in the article that he couldn't be given basic responsibilities.
 

Reckoning

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eralza said:
My brother's girlfriend is a marketing manager with a great firm.
Several years ago, while she was still in college, she decided that she really didn't need a degree to do marketing. So, she forged a degree, created an outstanding resume, and got hired at about $50K/yr (back in the 90's). Since then, she has transfered jobs several times and worked her way up to a management position at $100K/yr. Normally, I'd be apalled by such dishonesty, but after several years of contemplation, I've come to the same decision as she did..."you really don't need a degree to be a great marketing manager"!

That's cool. I mean except for the part about her lying and profitting handsomely from it. She's right and you're right about not needing a degree, but cheating works a little too well these days. At the end of day integrity is the only thing really worth having. My .02.
 

heeter

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yeah, you don't need a degree to be a marketing manager. In fact, you don't need a degree for most business-related jobs... You need common sense and a will to succeed but a degree is a waste. This comes from a guy w/ a business undergrad. Totally. Worthless. Degree.
 

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heeter said:
yeah, you don't need a degree to be a marketing manager. In fact, you don't need a degree for most business-related jobs... You need common sense and a will to succeed but a degree is a waste. This comes from a guy w/ a business undergrad. Totally. Worthless. Degree.
I agreed, you don't need a degree to know how to do business. Hell, I don't need a degree to do Bio. I can go buy those Bio and Chem book and learned all the theory myself in one year.


More credit to you if you can get a job through forgery. You have a talent and deserve it.
 

TheRussian

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I don't know what you guys are talking about. I wish I would have thought of that. Sure beats studying for finals. ;)

Of course, I would never get caught since my goals are not as ambitious as becoming a CT surgeon.
 

Without Wax

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There is an even better story. About 10-15 years ago, a guy lied his way into Harvard medical school (about what college he went to, what grades he got). Everybody believed his resume, and he dated a law school student there. During his fourth year, when he was applying for residencies, people figured out about his lies, and he was thrown out of the school.

What is really interesting is that the administrators also found out that his girlfriend also cheated her way into Harvard law school, that she also lied about her resume, grades...etc.

they were both kicked out
 

Acherona

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crazy. I don't think you could get away with that nowadays, with all the electronic verification. Forging official mcat score report would be kind of hard.
 

Law2Doc

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Acherona said:
crazy. I don't think you could get away with that nowadays, with all the electronic verification. Forging official mcat score report would be kind of hard.
I suspect the next wave of this kind of crime will involve identity theft -- where the forger finds someone with an A average who got a 40 on the MCAT and simply poses as this person. The AMCAS requirement that only one acceptance may be held after mid-May complicates this though...
 

eralza

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LOL
I remember seeing something about how when business majors were choosing their specialty, those who drank heavily and played an excellent game of golf naturally gravitated toward marketing, since it wasn't much different.

Anyone remember the movie "Mumford"? It was about the guy who practiced clinical psych in a small town without any real training. Gotta respect natural ingenuity and a positive "can-do" attitude...except when it includes cutting someone open!
 

Ross434

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Law2Doc said:
I can't comment on your specific example, but your analysis of the downside of lawyer fraud isn't right.
Usually with fraud cases, you have to have tampering of a legally operative document. As far as im aware, a transcript does not fall under this heading. (documents that do include tax returns, wills, property deeds etc,). Second, with fraud or forgery cases, its imperative that the plaintiff prove damages. A biglaw firm would not be able to successfully prosecute this guy, because he has not damaged the firm in any way due to his "alteration". Its preposterous for a judge or jury to believe such a thing when the guy is bringing in millions of dollars of business for his firm every year.

Obviously with medicine, its a little different - practicing with an invalid or fasely obtained medical license is a crime and could hurt others. However, getting a job in law because you misled an interviewer isnt illegal. Hey, deception is like, a key tenet of a thriving law practice, right?? :smuggrin:
 

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i know a guy (distant relative through marriage) that went to community college, then transferred to uc davis but dropped out after a quarter, but lied to everyone that he was still going. pretended to graduate and then said he got into NYU dental, moved from CA to NY, continued lying to his older sisters (who were helping him financially), all the while racking up debt by buying things like $200 shaving cream and stealing and cashing other people's checks. while in NY, he had an arranged marriage, lied to his future in-laws about his schooling, and then finally, when it came time to graduate from dental school, his sisters and their families flew out to NY for the ceremony where he told them it was all a lie, and alas, no graduation ceremony. and then the parents of his wife found out, forced her to divorce him, and now they are demanding back the money they spent on the wedding. lol. at least he didn't try to pretend he was an actual dentist to patients.

anyway, i wonder what happened to the guy in the story, since the article was written in 1998. guess we'll never know...
 

heeter

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CalGoldenBear said:
i know a guy (distant relative through marriage) that went to community college, then transferred to uc davis but dropped out after a quarter, but lied to everyone that he was still going. pretended to graduate and then said he got into NYU dental, moved from CA to NY, continued lying to his older sisters (who were helping him financially), all the while racking up debt by buying things like $200 shaving cream and stealing and cashing other people's checks. while in NY, he had an arranged marriage, lied to his future in-laws about his schooling, and then finally, when it came time to graduate from dental school, his sisters and their families flew out to NY for the ceremony where he told them it was all a lie, and alas, no graduation ceremony. and then the parents of his wife found out, forced her to divorce him, and now they are demanding back the money they spent on the wedding. lol. at least he didn't try to pretend he was an actual dentist to patients.

anyway, i wonder what happened to the guy in the story, since the article was written in 1998. guess we'll never know...
Wow, that is some crazy stuff. Frankly, your relative was a damn idiot in denial. What did he think was going to happen. Dentists always have relatives hitting them up for free dental stuff. Eventually, someone would find out.

As for the OP, that guy is a sociopath. What egomaniac would risk people's lives by pretending to be a cardiothoracic surgeon? I mean, you know how easy it would be to kill people doing that?
 

trinitrotoluene

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In Tennessee you can get one year in prison for each time you see a patient with out a lisence. If you are convicted of seeing 30 patients in one day, you get 30 years in jail. Oddly, impersonating a DO only gets you 6 months per incident.
 

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xadmin said:
I agreed, you don't need a degree to know how to do business. Hell, I don't need a degree to do Bio. I can go buy those Bio and Chem book and learned all the theory myself in one year.


More credit to you if you can get a job through forgery. You have a talent and deserve it.
"More credit to you if you can get a job through forgery. You have a talent and deserve it."
YEAH! And you'll also deserve it when you get kicked into jail for lying/cheating in your business.

The best people can play by the rules and still win.
 

funshine

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eralza said:
My brother's girlfriend is a marketing manager with a great firm.
Several years ago, while she was still in college, she decided that she really didn't need a degree to do marketing. So, she forged a degree, created an outstanding resume, and got hired at about $50K/yr (back in the 90's). Since then, she has transfered jobs several times and worked her way up to a management position at $100K/yr. Normally, I'd be apalled by such dishonesty, but after several years of contemplation, I've come to the same decision as she did..."you really don't need a degree to be a great marketing manager"!
..."you really don't need a degree to be a great marketing manager"!
Maybe not, but i sure hope you don't view her as some sort of role model
 

eralza

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funshine said:
..."you really don't need a degree to be a great marketing manager"!
Maybe not, but i sure hope you don't view her as some sort of role model
No, I figure tha Karma will catch up with her down the way.
Even before she pulled off her "promotion", I always viewed her as a bit of a half-wit. She is tall, flashy, and good at marketing; but trying to carry on an intelligent conversation with her is a bit more challenging than teaching a monkey geometry.
 

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funshine said:
"More credit to you if you can get a job through forgery. You have a talent and deserve it."
YEAH! And you'll also deserve it when you get kicked into jail for lying/cheating in your business.

The best people can play by the rules and still win.

No, don't think so. Look at those Enrons executive. They are rich.