Guys, to be blunt, what are my changes? Should I give up?

drhong

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    I am 23, just graduated with BA with a 2.992 in an irrelevant major with no prerequisites except maybe statistics with I got a A-
    Let say if I do a post-bacc with all the prereqs and will:
    - provide clinical/shadowing experiences
    - let's imagine I will get a 3.5 to 3.7 GPA in the post bacc
    -Let say a 505 in the MCAT

    Experiences so far:
    worked as a part-time direct support professional and took care of autistic children for around 2 years during college
    Hobbies:
    can draw on a hyperrealism level


    what are my chances with these stats?
     

    GreenDuck12

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      Solid shot at DO. Slim chance at state MD without a higher MCAT score.

      For MD matriculants, mean cGPA is a 3.7 and mean MCAT is 511.

      You still have a chance to become a doctor.
       
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      drhong

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        Solid shot at DO. Slim chance at state MD without a higher MCAT score.

        For MD matriculants, mean GPA is a 3.7 and mean MCAT is 511.

        You still have a chance to become a doctor.

        that's what another doctor told me too, but DO school accept students at 6-7%, should I be concerned?
        Also, do majority of med schools accept online post-bacc?
         
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        LunaOri

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          You need a lot more shadowing, clinical, and volunteer experience. Expect to spend the next couple of years gaining those experiences. Aim to get a 4.0 in your post-bac (pick a program like Harvard that has some credibility). Study for the MCAT until you are confident that you will do well. You are young, so you have plenty of time to improve your chances! Good luck!
           
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          GreenDuck12

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            that's what another doctor told me too, but DO school accept students at 6-7%, should I be concerned?
            Also, do majority of med schools accept online post-bacc?

            No, you should not be concerned unless you are looking for a guaranteed acceptance. The reality is medical admissions is incredibly competitive and there are no guarantees, even for 4.0 perfect MCAT scorers. There are so many applicants that programs can afford to be picky. High stats help but they aren’t sufficient for a guaranteed A. For MD programs, 60k people apply each year and 40k are not accepted. For DO, the numbers are a bit different but you increase your chances of an acceptance by having a GPA and MCAT at or above the mean, along with strong ECs. I would avoid online prereqs if possible, except for the current covid situation. The reality is that the prereqs are difficult and most folks do better when they can work with others. You can take classes anywhere that works with your schedule.
             
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            drgoldenboy

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              @drhong you can definitely do it. but there's not much margin for error. check out goros guide to reinvention. i graduated w a 3.01 and just finished an app cycle w 4 interviews. 3 MD to competitive programs. but granted this was also 4 years after post bacc work. so you gotta ask whether you are willing to put in the sacrifice....its hard.
               

              Goro

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                I am 23, just graduated with BA with a 2.992 in an irrelevant major with no prerequisites except maybe statistics with I got a A-
                Let say if I do a post-bacc with all the prereqs and will:
                - provide clinical/shadowing experiences
                - let's imagine I will get a 3.5 to 3.7 GPA in the post bacc
                -Let say a 505 in the MCAT

                Experiences so far:
                worked as a part-time direct support professional and took care of autistic children for around 2 years during college
                Hobbies:
                can draw on a hyperrealism level


                what are my chances with these stats?
                In your scenario, you'll be fine for any DO school.

                For MD, you're going to need 3.7+ and a 513+ on the MCAT (510+ for your state school).

                Read this:
                 

                drhong

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                  @drhong you can definitely do it. but there's not much margin for error. check out goros guide to reinvention. i graduated w a 3.01 and just finished an app cycle w 4 interviews. 3 MD to competitive programs. but granted this was also 4 years after post bacc work. so you gotta ask whether you are willing to put in the sacrifice....its hard.

                  yeah I am concern about my undergrad grades, if I do well in the post bacc (best case scenario) do you think they will weight it heavier? plus I only graduated recently from undergrad which is also concerning
                   

                  Kumorebi

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                    In your scenario, you'll be fine for any DO school.

                    For MD, you're going to need 3.7+ and a 513+ on the MCAT (510+ for your state school).

                    Read this:

                    I reassure you that you can make it if you achieve these stats and fulfill the extracurricular requirements (shadowing, clinical experience, volunteering (clinical/non-clinical), etc.)

                    Now stop worrying and take action if this is what you truly want. If you are on the fence, then make up your mind and commit before you start your journey or your not going to have a good time.
                     
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                    drgoldenboy

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                      yeah I am concern about my undergrad grades, if I do well in the post bacc (best case scenario) do you think they will weight it heavier? plus I only graduated recently from undergrad which is also concerning
                      I reassure you that you can make it if you achieve these stats and fulfill the extracurricular requirements (shadowing, clinical experience, volunteering (clinical/non-clinical), etc.)

                      Now stop worrying and take action if this is what you truly want. If you are on the fence, then make up your mind and commit before you start your journey or your not going to have a good time.
                      Agreed. If you are going to do it, do it. It's a huge committment though. You should be very sure this is what you want to do. You'll be studying and fulfilling all the EC requirements while your friends will likely be climbing up the ladder more quickly.
                       

                      drgoldenboy

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                        its a scary decision, but I will think about it. Thanks guys
                        You could always try taking some courses at a local CC or CUNY a la carte and see how that goes. It doesn't have to be a formal post-bacc. What matters is that you perform well in a significant amount courses over the long-term, and that you round your application out. Med schools are also not going anywhere if you wanna explore other options first.
                         
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                        drhong

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                          You could always try taking some courses at a local CC or CUNY a la carte and see how that goes. It doesn't have to be a formal post-bacc. What matters is that you perform well in a significant amount courses over the long-term, and that you round your application out. Med schools are also not going anywhere if you wanna explore other options first.
                          I heard that med schools look down on CC courses and online courses, is that true? I am eyeing on CCNY and they claim that they have a 68-73% success rate, which is fine, and I can get TAP for second-degree, but its so damn far away and takes too long..
                           
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                          drgoldenboy

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                            I heard that med schools look down on CC courses and online courses, is that true? I am eyeing on CCNY and they claim that they have a 68-73% success rate, which is fine, and I can get TAP for second-degree, but its so damn far away and takes too long..
                            They do look down on CC courses, this is true. But you can just for starters to see what it is like if your budget is low. Then if you decide you don't really want it you can do something else without incurring debt. And if you do want to continue, then you can switch to taking courses at a 4 year.

                            4 year is preferable, but if you took a few CC courses for starters I do not think its a big deal. Just get a 3.7+ gpa and then get ~513 MCAT, plus all the good extracurricular and you'd be set.
                             

                            drgoldenboy

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                              They do look down on CC courses, this is true. But you can just for starters to see what it is like if your budget is low. Then if you decide you don't really want it you can do something else without incurring debt. And if you do want to continue, then you can switch to taking courses at a 4 year.

                              4 year is preferable, but if you took a few CC courses for starters I do not think its a big deal. Just get a 3.7+ gpa and then get ~513 MCAT, plus all the good extracurricular and you'd be set.
                              But get a 4.0 at CC.
                               
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                              drgoldenboy

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                                I heard that med schools look down on CC courses and online courses, is that true? I am eyeing on CCNY and they claim that they have a 68-73% success rate, which is fine, and I can get TAP for second-degree, but its so damn far away and takes too long..
                                The name of the game is just getting a high GPA, getting community service in, and having interesting experiences related to healthcare/service. Oh and a good MCAT. If you do that, and you take some courses at CC when you are figuring things out, I highly doubt it would be an issue.
                                 
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                                drhong

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                                  The name of the game is just getting a high GPA, getting community service in, and having interesting experiences related to healthcare/service. Oh and a good MCAT. If you do that, and you take some courses at CC when you are figuring things out, I highly doubt it would be an issue.

                                  I think CCNY might cover all the costs if I am eligible for TAP, but I am not sure. Just apply first and figure out later. My plan is to try a semester to see how it's like, if I can deal with it I'll continue, cuz even my brightest premed friends said undergrad sciences are hard as hell. I am concerned about the MCAT too, just did some CARS practice and I am already burnout.
                                   

                                  drgoldenboy

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                                    I think CCNY might cover all the costs if I am eligible for TAP, but I am not sure. Just apply first and figure out later. My plan is to try a semester to see how it's like, if I can deal with it I'll continue, cuz even my brightest premed friends said undergrad sciences are hard as hell. I am concerned about the MCAT too, just did some CARS practice and I am already burnout.
                                    One step at a time. Trust me, it's a long ride to get to med school once you start. Just take it slow and do it right.
                                     

                                    drhong

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                                      One step at a time. Trust me, it's a long ride to get to med school once you start. Just take it slow and do it right.
                                      Hey, thanks for the motivation. By the way, are regular science classes enough to prepare for the MCAT? Do they only test the very fundamental science concepts or what? On Princeton prep there are so many topics to go over, makes me a bit nervous lol.
                                      Also, what can I do if I didn't get into med school after all these efforts? What else can I do? If I do PA or Nursing I still need other prereqs, which takes more time so imma out on that.
                                       

                                      drgoldenboy

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                                        Hey, thanks for the motivation. By the way, are regular science classes enough to prepare for the MCAT? Do they only test the very fundamental science concepts or what? On Princeton prep there are so many topics to go over, makes me a bit nervous lol.
                                        Also, what can I do if I didn't get into med school after all these efforts? What else can I do? If I do PA or Nursing I still need other prereqs, which takes more time so imma out on that.
                                        You can do other healthcare related jobs, yes. You can do well on the MCAT with just the pre-reqs. But you might want to do physiology as well. The MCAT is a huge grind. you won't want to be doing anything else but studying once you get to that point.
                                         

                                        drhong

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                                          You can do other healthcare related jobs, yes. You can do well on the MCAT with just the pre-reqs. But you might want to do physiology as well. The MCAT is a huge grind. you won't want to be doing anything else but studying once you get to that point.
                                          I thought anatomy and physiology is more for nursing and PA, and physic is for pre-med, at least that's how it works in CCNY. I am also considering podiatry, but it seems like that field is dying out.
                                           

                                          drgoldenboy

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                                            I saw that you are looking for evening classes as well and that you just graduated. If you have the chance, I would highly recommend against working and taking classes. It's a real grind. better to be a student full time if you can for this. I did full time work/classes and it was hell. And ultimately time inefficient.
                                             
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                                            Kumorebi

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                                              Anatomy and physiology are not pre-reqs for medicine, but physiology is helpful for the MCAT.
                                              I did an SMP with graduate physiology. I would argue that other than learning the circulatory system, biochem was more useful for the MCAT. Physio covers a lot of low yield topics in my opinion and is not a pre-req to medical school.
                                               
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                                              drgoldenboy

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                                                I second what the above said. I personally found physiology helpful when dealing with things like kidney function, but it is probably lower yield. Biochemistry is higher yield.
                                                 
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                                                drhong

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                                                  I saw that you are looking for evening classes as well and that you just graduated. If you have the chance, I would highly recommend against working and taking classes. It's a real grind. better to be a student full time if you can for this. I did full time work/classes and it was hell. And ultimately time inefficient.
                                                  would part time work by fine? not planning for full time either. but my mom would bitch like hell about me not working at 24ish blah blah and the disadvantaged toxic loud ASS environment i live in is not fit for studying... which makes things even more risky.
                                                   

                                                  drgoldenboy

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                                                    Part time is good because you’ll have a little spending money to enjoy yourself when you’re done studying. Just be mindful of how much work and time school will take up.

                                                    Hopefully libraries open up soon.
                                                     

                                                    singaBird18

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                                                      Probably not yet. Take a medical terminology course at your local cc and maybe they would.

                                                      Try applying to ScribeAmerica. It's one of the biggest (or the biggest?) scribe providers out there. I'm 2 years out of college (BA in Computer Science /minor in statistics) and I was working as a software developer. I'm now working part-time as a medical scribe at ScribeAmerica and I had 0 medical experience when I applied. I took organic chem and gen chem my freshman year....but that was 6 years ago....otherwise no volunteer or medical experience. They have their own classroom training (medical terminology, EMR training, etc) and floor training before you start by yourself.
                                                       
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                                                      drhong

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                                                        Try applying to ScribeAmerica. It's one of the biggest (or the biggest?) scribe providers out there. I'm 2 years out of college (BA in Computer Science /minor in statistics) and I was working as a software developer. I'm now working part-time as a medical scribe at ScribeAmerica and I had 0 medical experience when I applied. I took organic chem and gen chem my freshman year....but that was 6 years ago....otherwise no volunteer or medical experience. They have their own classroom training (medical terminology, EMR training, etc) and floor training before you start by yourself.

                                                        why would you even leave a job as a software developer? :eek:
                                                         
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                                                        drhong

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                                                          depends what your skillset, your vision of life, and what your aspirations toward making an impact are-- nursing could be fulfilling though for sure.
                                                          I am also considering nurse practitioner, I mean they do many things that drs can do, but in the end dr.s have more knowledge, but NPs have less debt. There are pros and cons for both sides.
                                                           
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                                                            I am also considering nurse practitioner, I mean they do many things that drs can do, but in the end dr.s have more knowledge, but NPs have less debt. There are pros and cons for both sides.
                                                            I'm with you man. I'm considering a PhD instead for similar considerations. I want to be able to help as many people as I can though, and debt is not the obstacle to that.
                                                             
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                                                            TragicalDrFaust

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                                                              would they hire me with no experience?
                                                              You can definitely get a scribe job with no experience. My ScribeAmerica site was always desperate for scribes because no one would stick around. The job isn't bad but the pay is only worth it if you need the experience more than the money. Don't waste time on a medical terminology class if you're applying to a corporate scribing position. Any outfit will pay you to go through their training.
                                                               
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                                                              drhong

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                                                                You can definitely get a scribe job with no experience. My ScribeAmerica site was always desperate for scribes because no one would stick around. The job isn't bad but the pay is only worth it if you need the experience more than the money. Don't waste time on a medical terminology class if you're applying to a corporate scribing position. Any outfit will pay you to go through their training.
                                                                well I currently have a decent paying job as a care coordinator, hope that still counts
                                                                 

                                                                TragicalDrFaust

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                                                                  It would be a huge step down from being a care coordinator. The advantages for scribing I can see in your situation are working closely with a physician for a LOR and having a more diversified healthcare experience- you're with the physician the whole day so you can see exactly what they do and will be able to speak with more authority when application essays and interviews come around. You may want to check in with a few programs and ask if they consider care coordination clinical experience. They should, but they can be persnickety.
                                                                   
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                                                                    I gotta admit I am a bit scared of debt and that it might eventually destroy my life :(
                                                                    I don't believe it will destroy your life in the long run. It will hamstring you while you are earning your stripes however. But again, things might change in the future. Residents might finally strike against big medicine/administration demanding better conditions or to get more salary from the value they provide, student debt slaves and indentured servitude in the US might be fixed as well... hyperinflation as a result from quantitative easing by the fed(I have no idea what this means honestly) might collapse our economy for all we know but even if not, if you commit to the process once you're an attending you will be okay. Go read white coat investor and recognize your options
                                                                     
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                                                                    singaBird18

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                                                                      I am also considering nurse practitioner, I mean they do many things that drs can do, but in the end dr.s have more knowledge, but NPs have less debt. There are pros and cons for both sides.

                                                                      I'm completely with you as well so I'm going for the PA route. Have you considered physician assistant? Similar to NPs in that they do a lot of the same things Drs do, less debt, and PA school is only 2-3 years.
                                                                       
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                                                                      drhong

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                                                                        I'm completely with you as well so I'm going for the PA route. Have you considered physician assistant? Similar to NPs in that they do a lot of the same things Drs do, less debt, and PA school is only 2-3 years.
                                                                        PA school has too many prerequisites, gonna take 2 years and still no guarantee of my getting in because PA schools might as well be even more competitive than medical school
                                                                         

                                                                        drhong

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                                                                          I don't believe it will destroy your life in the long run. It will hamstring you while you are earning your stripes however. But again, things might change in the future. Residents might finally strike against big medicine/administration demanding better conditions or to get more salary from the value they provide, student debt slaves and indentured servitude in the US might be fixed as well... hyperinflation as a result from quantitative easing by the fed(I have no idea what this means honestly) might collapse our economy for all we know but even if not, if you commit to the process once you're an attending you will be okay. Go read white coat investor and recognize your options
                                                                          hopefully, half a million debt makes me nervous regardless of salary
                                                                           
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