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Anybody interview or have any thoughts on the Harbor UCLA program? I heard they are interviewing 200 apps for very few spots?
Harbor UCLA
- Thread starter malsaint
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I've heard similar things, but dropped my interview spots simply because most anesthesiologists I've talked to rank it very low among the West Coast schools.
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Is this program better or worse than USC? any thoughts?
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hard to say, but some USC students have recommended to me to stay away from USC although it is making improvements. I didn't really look into it too hard since I decided not to interview. Irvine, UCSD, and UCLA are much better regarded schools in SoCal.
Meza--
I am interested. Can you elaborate please? In what ways is it horrible for residents and how do you know? You can email me more info if you don't want to be to open about the issue.
Thanks
I am interested. Can you elaborate please? In what ways is it horrible for residents and how do you know? You can email me more info if you don't want to be to open about the issue.
Thanks
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I was a resident there...had to leave because it was so horrible. I rotated there as a student, thought it was a good enough place (wanted to be in SoCal with friends and family) and they promised that things were getting better. Ended up staying only one year, and left for another program because I absolutely hated it. I kept in contact with some of the residents who decided to "stick it out," and according to them, it hasn't changed much.
Where do I begin? First and foremost the attendings seem to be mostly FMG who couldn't get jobs anywhere but there, and are very....incompetent (in general). Lots of Indian attendings who seemed to favor the FMG Indian residents. The chairman, Dr. Lumb is a nice guy...but he's from Duke and has no idea how to "deal with" unionized County employees. He can't fire anyone, and without that power, how can he really be in control? Their attendings would openly demean groups of people based on their own biases. They seem to dislike America, and spoke very negatively about American whites, blacks, and women. There were actually a couple of female residents that had a lawsuit pending against the department for sexism - and (the icing on the cake) the attending turned around and filed a lawsuit against the residents. Talk about hostile environment!!
The morning lectures were a joke. Residents would give cases/lectures - so that meant the residents were working even harder, and the attending were doing nothing. I mean, if they aren't in the OR, aren't teaching, and sitting around demeaning groups of people, how is that a conducive learning environment. No wonder the pass rate isn't as good as you'd expect from a USC program.
I heard they changed the call schedule...now they have a night float. However, the residents I've spoke with don't like this "new" system. But I guess it beats random, unscheduled call. Let me add, as a first year (or an "unfavored" second year) you do nothing but ortho cases. And, best believe you'll be unfavored if you're American (white or black). Ask them how many residents have left the program in the last, say 4-5 years. I know (personally) of 10 people who left. That's quite a bit. Something is wrong.
Positives? USC (the institution). The County - has a lot to offer in terms of pathology and number/types of cases available. The location - Southern California. And the trauma. There are a few "sane" attendings who actually do teach, and teach well. You do rotate out to various hospitals, so you do (ultimately) get good training. Jobs are plenty to a USC grad - despite the reputation of the anesthesia department among peers. And the patients really need you.
Any specific questions? I could go on and on...but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying.
Where do I begin? First and foremost the attendings seem to be mostly FMG who couldn't get jobs anywhere but there, and are very....incompetent (in general). Lots of Indian attendings who seemed to favor the FMG Indian residents. The chairman, Dr. Lumb is a nice guy...but he's from Duke and has no idea how to "deal with" unionized County employees. He can't fire anyone, and without that power, how can he really be in control? Their attendings would openly demean groups of people based on their own biases. They seem to dislike America, and spoke very negatively about American whites, blacks, and women. There were actually a couple of female residents that had a lawsuit pending against the department for sexism - and (the icing on the cake) the attending turned around and filed a lawsuit against the residents. Talk about hostile environment!!
The morning lectures were a joke. Residents would give cases/lectures - so that meant the residents were working even harder, and the attending were doing nothing. I mean, if they aren't in the OR, aren't teaching, and sitting around demeaning groups of people, how is that a conducive learning environment. No wonder the pass rate isn't as good as you'd expect from a USC program.
I heard they changed the call schedule...now they have a night float. However, the residents I've spoke with don't like this "new" system. But I guess it beats random, unscheduled call. Let me add, as a first year (or an "unfavored" second year) you do nothing but ortho cases. And, best believe you'll be unfavored if you're American (white or black). Ask them how many residents have left the program in the last, say 4-5 years. I know (personally) of 10 people who left. That's quite a bit. Something is wrong.
Positives? USC (the institution). The County - has a lot to offer in terms of pathology and number/types of cases available. The location - Southern California. And the trauma. There are a few "sane" attendings who actually do teach, and teach well. You do rotate out to various hospitals, so you do (ultimately) get good training. Jobs are plenty to a USC grad - despite the reputation of the anesthesia department among peers. And the patients really need you.
Any specific questions? I could go on and on...but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying.
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What about the program director Dr. Patel. He is indian, is he part of what you are talking about? i interviewed with him and found him to be cold and impersonable myself.
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Meza,
When did you leave there? My impression was that Zelman and Co. feel like it's going to be around now for a while without any problems of accreditation. However, I'm wondering if their didactics are still as bad as you felt they were when you left. Overall, if one were to wind up here would you be afraid the place would close up before graduating?
When did you leave there? My impression was that Zelman and Co. feel like it's going to be around now for a while without any problems of accreditation. However, I'm wondering if their didactics are still as bad as you felt they were when you left. Overall, if one were to wind up here would you be afraid the place would close up before graduating?
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For those who claimed it's not well thought of, could you elaborate as to why this is?
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Mostly hearsay so take it for what its worth. 3 anesthesiologists in the group at the hospital I used to work at trained in Southern Cali fairly recently and all said that Harbor and USC are the lowest regarded programs in SoCal. I felt I had pther options so I decided it wasn't worth checking them out. Also if you ask USC students on the interview trail, the 3 that I've met have advised against it. The common themes seem to be overworked (in a bad way, meaning you are used for cheap labor rather than having an educational emphasis) and teh didactics aren't very strong. Personally, I would recommend UCLA. I recently saw their program and it was very impressive although they may not be too high on the list for reasons not related to the program.
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USC is a very...prestigeous institution. Therefore, if you were to go there, and do...anything...you'll come out okay. No, I'm pretty sure the program won't close...and that's not why I recommend agaist going there. I'm confident that you'll finish the program, no problem, and go on to get a good job. I think you'll get decent training...and feel pretty confident about your skills. It's just that *while you're there* it (more than likely) will be a negative experience. You'll be counting the days 'til graduation, counting the months until vacation, and counting the hours until quitting time. You'll be stressed out, and unhappy for 3 years...and that's a long time.
Dr. Zelman is a very nice guy. He's optimistic, and has been there through worse times. Dr. Patel is nice also...but it's difficult to know what he's *really* thinking behind those dark eyes. He listens to your complaints, and seems to take appropriate action...but nothing changes....or if it does, it does so for the worse. Then you wonder, was he really looking out for me?
The didactics are (were) bad mostly because they were all done by residents. When I'm at an official lecture about my chosen specialy, I want to hear from my instructors...the attendings. If I want to know what one of my fellow residents think, I'll ask them during a long night on call...or over lunch. I didn't appreciate the faculty "putting off" their academic responsibilities on the residents in the name of "teaching."
I left in June of 2002. The class that I left are seniors now. Ask them on the interview...the CA-3s how many people who *started* with them, are still with them. I'm guessing (of the 14 or so) maybe 5 of the original class is left. Most of the residents (over half) left after that first year. Some even left sooner than that. It was a horrible experience! I've never experienced a more stressful environment in my entire life!
Dr. Zelman is a very nice guy. He's optimistic, and has been there through worse times. Dr. Patel is nice also...but it's difficult to know what he's *really* thinking behind those dark eyes. He listens to your complaints, and seems to take appropriate action...but nothing changes....or if it does, it does so for the worse. Then you wonder, was he really looking out for me?
The didactics are (were) bad mostly because they were all done by residents. When I'm at an official lecture about my chosen specialy, I want to hear from my instructors...the attendings. If I want to know what one of my fellow residents think, I'll ask them during a long night on call...or over lunch. I didn't appreciate the faculty "putting off" their academic responsibilities on the residents in the name of "teaching."
I left in June of 2002. The class that I left are seniors now. Ask them on the interview...the CA-3s how many people who *started* with them, are still with them. I'm guessing (of the 14 or so) maybe 5 of the original class is left. Most of the residents (over half) left after that first year. Some even left sooner than that. It was a horrible experience! I've never experienced a more stressful environment in my entire life!
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