hard work or smarts?

[marcie-v]

Hi all,
Long time lurker, first time poster...
Do you think that medical school is more dedication to hard work or intelligence? Or a combination of both?
I am 33, currently working on a BSN . I keep hearing this little voice in my head saying "you should be a doctor." I was a teenage mom in a small working class town, where generally the goal was to get a permanent position in a factory. I moved away a few years ago and I feel that my eyes have been opened to opportunities that I never considered while trapped there. Just the fact that I will have a bachelors degree puts me far and above most of the people that I knew there.
I have been working in health care about 10 years or so, and I keep feeling that I have this instinct about what is going on with people, physically and emotionally, but is that enough? I know I am smart, but my grade point is about 3.0, but I don't work all that hard at school. I know will have to work harder if this is something I want. I just don't know if my lack of mathematical abilities will stop me cold. I took an intro chem class and loved it, but algebra was totally confusing.
Sorry if I am rambling, I think this is the first time I have ever said anything about this dream to anyone but myself...

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[chan]

Hi all,
Long time lurker, first time poster...
Do you think that medical school is more dedication to hard work or intelligence? Or a combination of both?
I am 33, currently working on a BSN . I keep hearing this little voice in my head saying "you should be a doctor." I was a teenage mom in a small working class town, where generally the goal was to get a permanent position in a factory. I moved away a few years ago and I feel that my eyes have been opened to opportunities that I never considered while trapped there. Just the fact that I will have a bachelors degree puts me far and above most of the people that I knew there.
I have been working in health care about 10 years or so, and I keep feeling that I have this instinct about what is going on with people, physically and emotionally, but is that enough? I know I am smart, but my grade point is about 3.0, but I don't work all that hard at school. I know will have to work harder if this is something I want. I just don't know if my lack of mathematical abilities will stop me cold. I took an intro chem class and loved it, but algebra was totally confusing.
Sorry if I am rambling, I think this is the first time I have ever said anything about this dream to anyone but myself...

I would have to say its a combination of both. There are some people in this world that are smart as hell working at McDonalds simply because they have no motivation or drive. There is also the opposite.

It takes much more than intelligence to be a great doctor. Most things you cant teach. If you really believe that medicine is your calling and have looked through all your other options, then I say go for it.

You never want to look back on your life and say "what if"

 

[njbmd]

Hi all,
Long time lurker, first time poster...
Do you think that medical school is more dedication to hard work or intelligence? Or a combination of both?
I am 33, currently working on a BSN . I keep hearing this little voice in my head saying "you should be a doctor." I was a teenage mom in a small working class town, where generally the goal was to get a permanent position in a factory. I moved away a few years ago and I feel that my eyes have been opened to opportunities that I never considered while trapped there. Just the fact that I will have a bachelors degree puts me far and above most of the people that I knew there.
I have been working in health care about 10 years or so, and I keep feeling that I have this instinct about what is going on with people, physically and emotionally, but is that enough? I know I am smart, but my grade point is about 3.0, but I don't work all that hard at school. I know will have to work harder if this is something I want. I just don't know if my lack of mathematical abilities will stop me cold. I took an intro chem class and loved it, but algebra was totally confusing.
Sorry if I am rambling, I think this is the first time I have ever said anything about this dream to anyone but myself...

Hi there,
If you guage being "smart" by a score on an IQ test, I can tell you that I never scored above 100 on any IQ test. I currently hold an MD and Ph.D and I am a PGY-4 General Surgery Resident. I am a very hard working student and I am able to visualize things and learn things very efficiently. I would never classify myself as "smart" or "intellectually gifted". I do have plenty of common sense and I never found that medical school, USMLE or MCAT took anything more than common sense and disciplined study. I put in some long hours but generally did fairly well. There is a lot to learn in medical school but none of it is particularly difficult.

Good luck
njbmd

 

[QofQuimica]

Do you think that medical school is more dedication to hard work or intelligence? Or a combination of both?

Ideally, it would be great to be both dedicated and brilliant, wouldn't it? But if one can't be both, I can tell you from my experience as both a student and a teacher that hard work will trump genius any day of the week. Bright students who don't work very hard are a dime a dozen, and frustrating as hell to work with to me as a teacher. I actually find that I can do the most good with so-called average students who are driven to succeed and willing to work for their goals. Older students in particular tend to be very motivated, and I almost always find them to be among the best students in the group.

Last year, I scored 43 on the MCAT, and I got two main responses from people. One was to ask if I was going to Harvard for medical school. The other was to tell me that I must be a genius. I wish it were true, but the reality is that I am not a genius. These people did not see how hard I worked all summer to study for the MCAT. I was in there at Kaplan every weekend taking practice tests right along side of my students, doing all of the homework that they were doing, plus prepping all of the classes. When they were moaning and complaining about how they couldn't get through all of the assignments, I told them that if I could do them while working 40 hours per week in the lab, they could do them while taking a class or two during the summer. I basically gave up almost everything else outside of work or Kaplan for three months while I prepared for the test. In retrospect, it was probably a bit of overkill. But it reminded me once more of the importance of sheer willpower over just about everything else in determining whether a dream becomes a reality. You are in the driver's seat of your life, Marcie. Hit the gas, girl!

 

[Law2Doc]

Hi all,
Long time lurker, first time poster...
Do you think that medical school is more dedication to hard work or intelligence? Or a combination of both?
I am 33, currently working on a BSN . I keep hearing this little voice in my head saying "you should be a doctor." I was a teenage mom in a small working class town, where generally the goal was to get a permanent position in a factory. I moved away a few years ago and I feel that my eyes have been opened to opportunities that I never considered while trapped there. Just the fact that I will have a bachelors degree puts me far and above most of the people that I knew there.
I have been working in health care about 10 years or so, and I keep feeling that I have this instinct about what is going on with people, physically and emotionally, but is that enough? I know I am smart, but my grade point is about 3.0, but I don't work all that hard at school. I know will have to work harder if this is something I want. I just don't know if my lack of mathematical abilities will stop me cold. I took an intro chem class and loved it, but algebra was totally confusing.
Sorry if I am rambling, I think this is the first time I have ever said anything about this dream to anyone but myself...

If being a doctor is something you really want, you can probably get there. You don't have to be a genius -- being fairly smart, but super dilligent and very focussed probably can often get you there. You probably want to start looking into postbac and Special Masters type programs. It will take a lot of hard work and, in terms of your math abilities, it will at some point require mastering enough algebra and trig to at least get through non-calculus based physics. Good luck.

 

[PM2]

Hello,

Probably the most important mathamatical understanding in most medical programs is statistical analysis.

You can still be a doctor with out great statistical knowledege; a good understanding of statistics will help with the review of the ever important meta analysis and randomized controlled studies.

As far as the rest of it.... memory.....and...how you adapt to change....

Good Luck!

 

[Skialta]

I am a MSIII and I can safely say that it is more how much you are willing to suffer as opposed to how smart you are. Medicine is not really that hard or conceptually difficult, it is remembering the volumes of material and being able to put it all together. If you can stay focused and work hard even when it is something you don't particularly care for then you should have no problem. Good Luck.

 

[APACHE3]

Go for it. However, if you can't score 30 or higher on MCAT, US allopathic med school is just about out. You can go DO, but that too is competitive. You can also study outside the US (I do, in Europe), but that can be very expensive. Sounds like you are close to being a BSN. Why don;t you work ICU for a couple of years and apply to CRNA or get your MSN and be a NP? You'll save yourself a lot of misery and still position yourself very nicely financially. I was a nontraditional applying to US med school and unfortunately we just aren't unique anymore. Adcom's really don't care. Do more research on your options...GL

 

[Sainttpk]

30 or higher? And your out? your kidding me right!

 

[Braveheart]

Go for it. However, if you can't score 30 or higher on MCAT, US allopathic med school is just about out. You can go DO, but that too is competitive. You can also study outside the US (I do, in Europe), but that can be very expensive. Sounds like you are close to being a BSN. Why don;t you work ICU for a couple of years and apply to CRNA or get your MSN and be a NP? You'll save yourself a lot of misery and still position yourself very nicely financially. I was a nontraditional applying to US med school and unfortunately we just aren't unique anymore. Adcom's really don't care. Do more research on your options...GL

Your advice makes little good. Why would he want to do NP when CRNA make a whole lot more then NP. I mean in SC, CRNA makes almost what a family medicine doctor makes a year. NP barely hit six figure and usually makes as much as a BSN that works overtime. 30 or higher on the mcat? Wow, that must be in Europe you must make a 30 or higher on the mcat not in the United States to get into the US. Now ofcourse ur chances increase with the higher mcat but people still get in with below 30. As far as being nontraditional, the average age of med school matriculant is getting higher. I know at MUSC in South Carolina, their avg age is almost 27 y.o. Med school definately like the older student because they have life experience.
To the OP, the decision is yours. One of the most important things in life isnt what you do but the choices you make along the way. G LUCK, Homey.

 

[71263]

If I may quote Rock Lee, "A dropout will defeat a genius with hard work." (that was for all the Naruto fans up in here ).

 

[Febrifuge]

This question is resonating with me right now, so maybe my perspective can help out the OP. I'm 35, and it's the middle of the 10-week summer semester... my postbac just finished the first 5-week course. Basically, I just did a semester's worth of Chem in five weeks, and (my favorite part) I haven't studied chemistry since 9th grade, 20 years ago.

Hard work matters more. Everybody you'll meet and be in class with from here on out is at least somewhat smart; the range goes from "brilliant but maladjusted" to "obviously destined for greatness" to "just plain smart." (If you have the good sense to ask this question in this way, you are at the very least "just plain smart.") The thing that separates the successful ones from the ones who change their minds or drop back from the pack is tenacity and nose-to-the-grindstone determination.

And remember, being a good student is a skill you need to learn; it doesn't have to define you as a person. Us non-trads understand this in an instinctive and first-hand way, and if we have trouble being students, maybe we have an advantage in terms of being excellent future doctors.

It may be tougher for you, like it's tough for me, just having to get reacquainted with how to be a student in the first place, at the same time you're having your head crammed full of info. But don't worry about smarts, and don't let yourself believe for a second you don't have the basic hardware required to get it done. Just be open to reconfiguring your software.

 

[marcie-v]

Thanks all,
What really got me thinking I might be able to do this is that I just finished 3 semesters in a row and now I have about 1 1/2 months off before I go back for fall classes. I find that I am going nutty not having all that work to do, and that maybe my study habits and work ethics have matured where I can work that hard.
One interesting thing- I live in a town in Michigan with a major university (blue and maize anyone?) and my anatomy professor at the community college also teaches Gross Anatomy there. We got to go to the Anatomy labs and it blew me away. He would teach us something in class, and then compare it to what his MS1's were learning and how they were learning it, such as histology, and I kept thinking "I can do that!"
I have about 3 more years before I finish my BSN- working full time in a hospice and taking classes, but from what I have read on this site in the past year is that it is never too early to prepare.
Thanks again for all the support.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Go for it. However, if you can't score 30 or higher on MCAT, US allopathic med school is just about out.

Come on now. Don't get too crazy. You know that's not true at all! To the OP: take it from a hard worker who was always just good enough to get to the next level. Frankly, a high level commitment and average ability are fine. D.O. and M.D. schools are reachable for you if you do okay on the MCAT. Good luck!

 

[Runtita]

It takes both hard work and smarts to get into and to succeed in medical school. It's harder than anything I've ever done in my life, but what keeps me going is the joy I feel in being there.

You can't do it without the joy.

 

[ChiefToma]

I just don't know if my lack of mathematical abilities will stop me cold. I took an intro chem class and loved it, but algebra was totally confusing.




Hard work all the way. I've failed math for most of my life.
I just got into med school, and I am starting this fall.

work you ass off and you'll make it. (make sure the ad comm knows that as well ).

 

[eccles1214]

Nelson Bunker Hunt, who cornered the silver market, once said that if you really want something you have to be willing to pay the price. The same goes for medical school. If you want it, you have to work hard.

You are currently working on a BSN to be a nurse, but your heart tells you to be a doctor. Then go for it. But it will take a lot of work. You will definitely have to have a higher G.P.A.

But nurses have gone onto get M.D.s -- sometimes much later in life.

Check out www.oldpremeds.org for a website that is geared towards older people going to medical school. There is one moderater -- Mary Renard -- who went to med school after years of working as a nurse.

HOpe tthis helps.

Hi all,
Long time lurker, first time poster...
Do you think that medical school is more dedication to hard work or intelligence? Or a combination of both?
I am 33, currently working on a BSN . I keep hearing this little voice in my head saying "you should be a doctor." I was a teenage mom in a small working class town, where generally the goal was to get a permanent position in a factory. I moved away a few years ago and I feel that my eyes have been opened to opportunities that I never considered while trapped there. Just the fact that I will have a bachelors degree puts me far and above most of the people that I knew there.
I have been working in health care about 10 years or so, and I keep feeling that I have this instinct about what is going on with people, physically and emotionally, but is that enough? I know I am smart, but my grade point is about 3.0, but I don't work all that hard at school. I know will have to work harder if this is something I want. I just don't know if my lack of mathematical abilities will stop me cold. I took an intro chem class and loved it, but algebra was totally confusing.
Sorry if I am rambling, I think this is the first time I have ever said anything about this dream to anyone but myself...

 

[eccles1214]

I can tell you from my experience as both a student and a teacher that hard work will trump genius any day of the week. Bright students who don't work very hard are a dime a dozen, and frustrating as hell to work with to me as a teacher. Older students in particular tend to be very motivated, and I almost always find them to be among the best students in the group.!

Amen. As an older student (well, well over 40), I find many younger students just don't want to put in the time to do well. I just aced intro chem and precalc and all I heard from the youngsters in the class was, "this stuff istoo hard." And some of them are premeds. I study every chance I get and work weekends.

Last year, I scored 43 on the MCAT

Wow, I am amazed by your MCAT score. I only know of one other person who has scored in the same range (a former friend of mine -- now a doctor -- scored a 45 in 1994. I've lost track of her.) I plan on taking the MCAT in 2007, and wonder about how to begin studying for it. I just started my premeds.

, and I got two main responses from people. One was to ask if I was going to Harvard for medical school.

Do you think Harvard would take a nearly 50-year old applicant? By the time I will apply, I'll have a very high GPA, and nearly two decades of health care volunteer experience under my belt. Now I just have to get the MCATs out of the way while I finish up my science courses.

 

[QofQuimica]

Do you think Harvard would take a nearly 50-year old applicant? By the time I will apply, I'll have a very high GPA, and nearly two decades of health care volunteer experience under my belt. Now I just have to get the MCATs out of the way while I finish up my science courses.

Are you asking me specifically or is this question directed to everyone? I have no idea who Harvard will take. I guess if I knew that, I'd be a pre-med advisor somewhere or write a book or something else that would earn me a small fortune from anxious pre-meds. Anyway, nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? It'd be great if you could pull it off.

P.S. Finish all of your pre-reqs first before you take the MCAT.

 

[Law2Doc]

Nelson Bunker Hunt, who cornered the silver market, once said that if you really want something you have to be willing to pay the price. The same goes for medical school. If you want it, you have to work hard.

You lost me with that one. Unless I'm mistaken, Hunt's attempt to corner the silver market was deemed illegal, failed, and the Hunt family lost billions. (i.e. it would be better to quote a "rags to riches" person rather than someone moving the other direction). I'm hoping everyone here has more success with medical school.

 

[QofQuimica]

You lost me with that one. Unless I'm mistaken, Hunt's attempt to corner the silver market was deemed illegal, failed, and the Hunt family lost billions. (i.e. it would be better to quote a "rags to riches" person rather than someone moving the other direction). I'm hoping everyone here has more success with medical school.

You're right, Hunt is not the best role model. How about Thomas Edison? "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration!"

 

[a_ditchdoc]

All it takes is a lot of hard work and a little bit of intelligence. I am in my third year of medical school and I cannot wait to tell my patients I was a high school dropout. Ok, so maybe I won't tell them, but it is true. I had to work a little harder than others to make up for it, but we all ended up in the same place. Anyway, like someone said, it all depends on how much suffering you are willing to endure. Medical school is not always as bad as people make it out, but I did not find it as easy as some make it out to be either. If you want it, you can do it.

 

[APACHE3]

Of course I will never say never. The OP did confide her weak academics and that might not bode well for MCAT preparation. The MCAT was way harder than Step 1. It is the DEFINITIVE med school test..like it or not. MCATS send people to DO school, carib, and overseas. You are right. MCATS don;t get you in, BUT they do keep you out of US med school. Hopefully someday, someone will figure out it's not the end all predictor the adcoms think it is..but thats another story. There are a ton of options out there. The OP wants to be a doc, so go for it..only have a plan B and C in case plan A doesn't work out. GL PS if there are any US allopathic med students who scored lower than 30, please let me know,,,see ya!

 

[marcie-v]

Oh, I absolutely have a plan B, I will be getting my BSN no matter what. My husband says he can't see me being anything other than management in the normal nursing level or a nurse practioner, because of my personality (this never ending need to be in control of every situation no matter what and have every detail right every time )
I haven't said anything about medical school to him yet, I don't want to give him a heart attack, lol, he is already stressing about me cutting down my work hours next fall to take the nursing classes.
I just need to say, this forum has been great, I'm just sorry it took me so long to get up the nerve to register.

 

[APACHE3]

Getting your BSN is a great start. Good luck with med school, but you have a lot of options.

 

[APACHE3]

OK, I stand corrected. I received several post from US allopathic students who made sub-30 MCAT scores and got in. They did not reveal their scores, but I take their word, so I will modify my original statement...making a 30 or greater will enhance your application, but I guess other measures will help you too. Do millions of practice questions (I did not) take evaluation exams (I did not) and if you can afford it, do Kaplan (I did not)....hope that helps!!!

 

[blee]

Ideally, it would be great to be both dedicated and brilliant, wouldn't it? But if one can't be both, I can tell you from my experience as both a student and a teacher that hard work will trump genius any day of the week. Bright students who don't work very hard are a dime a dozen, and frustrating as hell to work with to me as a teacher. I actually find that I can do the most good with so-called average students who are driven to succeed and willing to work for their goals. Older students in particular tend to be very motivated, and I almost always find them to be among the best students in the group.

Last year, I scored 43 on the MCAT, and I got two main responses from people. One was to ask if I was going to Harvard for medical school. The other was to tell me that I must be a genius. I wish it were true, but the reality is that I am not a genius. These people did not see how hard I worked all summer to study for the MCAT. I was in there at Kaplan every weekend taking practice tests right along side of my students, doing all of the homework that they were doing, plus prepping all of the classes. When they were moaning and complaining about how they couldn't get through all of the assignments, I told them that if I could do them while working 40 hours per week in the lab, they could do them while taking a class or two during the summer. I basically gave up almost everything else outside of work or Kaplan for three months while I prepared for the test. In retrospect, it was probably a bit of overkill. But it reminded me once more of the importance of sheer willpower over just about everything else in determining whether a dream becomes a reality. You are in the driver's seat of your life, Marcie. Hit the gas, girl!

I'm a bit late to the thread, but I'd have to agree here. I was one of those talented-but-unmotivated students for the majority of my education, and back then I thought that just being smart would be good enough. Once I entered the business world, I learned the truth -- someone with less raw talent but more sheer willpower and determination deserves the job, the raise, the promotion, far more than someone who *could* do it all but doesn't.

I'm no smarter now than I was in college, but my performance as a postbac student was stunning because I actually worked on it this time. And while my MCAT score was excellent by any measure, I feel that it could've been better had I dedicated more time to it. I see things from a different perspective these days; I never complain about having "too much homework" or "having no time." I make sure that I know exactly what I'm capable of -- no more, no less -- and that I work up to my limits every day. As long as I never let myself down, I know that I'll never have to wonder "what if."

Bottom line: You were born with a certain level of talent, and you can't do much to change that. You can, however, control exactly how much of that talent you put to use.

 

[Em&M]

I'm a bit late to the thread, but I'd have to agree here. I was one of those talented-but-unmotivated students for the majority of my education, and back then I thought that just being smart would be good enough. Once I entered the business world, I learned the truth -- someone with less raw talent but more sheer willpower and determination deserves the job, the raise, the promotion, far more than someone who *could* do it all but doesn't.

I'm no smarter now than I was in college, but my performance as a postbac student was stunning because I actually worked on it this time. And while my MCAT score was excellent by any measure, I feel that it could've been better had I dedicated more time to it. I see things from a different perspective these days; I never complain about having "too much homework" or "having no time." I make sure that I know exactly what I'm capable of -- no more, no less -- and that I work up to my limits every day. As long as I never let myself down, I know that I'll never have to wonder "what if."

Bottom line: You were born with a certain level of talent, and you can't do much to change that. You can, however, control exactly how much of that talent you put to use.

Well Said!

 

[CoffeeCat]

Ideally, it would be great to be both dedicated and brilliant, wouldn't it? But if one can't be both, I can tell you from my experience as both a student and a teacher that hard work will trump genius any day of the week. Bright students who don't work very hard are a dime a dozen, and frustrating as hell to work with to me as a teacher. I actually find that I can do the most good with so-called average students who are driven to succeed and willing to work for their goals. Older students in particular tend to be very motivated, and I almost always find them to be among the best students in the group.

Last year, I scored 43 on the MCAT, and I got two main responses from people. One was to ask if I was going to Harvard for medical school. The other was to tell me that I must be a genius. I wish it were true, but the reality is that I am not a genius. These people did not see how hard I worked all summer to study for the MCAT. I was in there at Kaplan every weekend taking practice tests right along side of my students, doing all of the homework that they were doing, plus prepping all of the classes. When they were moaning and complaining about how they couldn't get through all of the assignments, I told them that if I could do them while working 40 hours per week in the lab, they could do them while taking a class or two during the summer. I basically gave up almost everything else outside of work or Kaplan for three months while I prepared for the test. In retrospect, it was probably a bit of overkill. But it reminded me once more of the importance of sheer willpower over just about everything else in determining whether a dream becomes a reality. You are in the driver's seat of your life, Marcie. Hit the gas, girl!

I LOVE this post!!!