harder for Asians to get into med school?

[AlexMorph]

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Your thinking really won't affect their thinking unless you somehow are connected to them and can reason with them. Are you?

 

[AlexMorph]

Anyone else have a problem with only Mexicans and Puerto Ricans being considered URM? Why not the other Latin American countries? Didn't think Guatemala was all that much better than Mexico...

 

[drizzt3117]

Your thinking really won't affect their thinking unless you somehow are connected to them and can reason with them. Are you?

The point is if public opinion shifts, public policy will usually shift (slowly) in response. Therefore, voicing your opinion, while it may appear futile, may slowly make an effect.

 

[CycleCA]

Anyone else have a problem with only Mexicans and Puerto Ricans being considered URM? Why not the other Latin American countries? Didn't think Guatemala was all that much better than Mexico...

I think that Mexicans are the only URM category that deserve preferential treatment under AA, if any at all. In general, they are hard working and decent people.

 

[AlexMorph]

I think that Mexicans are the only URM category that deserve preferential treatment under AA, if any at all. In general, they are hard working and decent people.

Tell me about it. I can't tell you guys the number of times I've come across lazy, no-good Colombians, Venezuelans, Dominicans, Guatemalans, etc..............

Are you serious?

 

[riceman04]

I think that Mexicans are the only URM category that deserve preferential treatment under AA, if any at all. In general, they are hard working and decent people.

Hahahaha...when I read that all I could picture was some old washed up racist southern white guy.

What a joke

 

[flaahless]

How is academic performance a poor measuring stick to predict future academic performance, and how are test scores a poor measuring stick to predict future test scores?

Is the MCAT like the USMLE? Is there a verbal reasoning portion on that test? Do you have to write two essays? Don't think so.

 

[flaahless]

We might not be able to change anything with our debate here, but John Roberts and Clarence Thomas certainly can... Would the supreme court have ruled as it did recently in the 60s and 70s? Probably not, meaning that public opinion seems to have shifted regarding AA. Therefore, I disagree with your assertion that what people think doesn't matter.

I don't think so. What changed was J. Edgar Hoovers intervention and oppression of activist groups and an apathy of the american public to address and change important issues.

 

[drizzt3117]

Is the MCAT like the USMLE? Is there a verbal reasoning portion on that test? Do you have to write two essays? Don't think so.

It's a standardized multiple choice test like the USMLE. Obviously it's not exactly the same, but the principles are similar and MCAT results have a stronger correlation to the USMLE than any other quantitative measurements.

 

[drizzt3117]

I don't think so. What changed was J. Edgar Hoovers intervention and oppression of activist groups and an apathy of the american public to address and change important issues.

I think the average American is less interested in AA then they were thirty years ago. This is why the Brown vs Board of Education case was essentially pushed aside by the Supreme Court this year regarding school choice. While that specific decision did not overturn AA per se, it's certainly a step towards making preference in admissions based on SES rather than race.

 

[flaahless]

I think the average American is less interested in AA then they were thirty years ago. This is why the Brown vs Board of Education case was essentially pushed aside by the Supreme Court this year regarding school choice. While that specific decision did not overturn AA per se, it's certainly a step towards making preference in admissions based on SES rather than race.

You see, that's where the ignorance comes in. AA isn't a system for race, its a system for disadvantaged groups. That ecompasses race, gender, sexual preference, socioeconomic status, etc. People really need to stop associating AA with only black people. Again, the group that has benefitted the most is white women.

 

[drizzt3117]

You see, that's where the ignorance comes in. AA isn't a system for race, its a system for disadvantaged groups. That ecompasses race, gender, sexual preference, socioeconomic status, etc. People really need to stop associating AA with only black people. Again, the group that has benefitted the most is white women.

Whether or not that was the case in the past, it is not now, as the groups that are primarily benefiting from AA are African Americans and Hispanic-Americans, which is perhaps one of the reasons attitudes towards AA has changed.

 

[IzzyMarieDMD]

Hahahaha...when I read that all I could picture was some old washed up racist southern white guy.

What a joke

not to stereotype southern white people or anything... 🙄

 

[AlexMorph]

In one corner, we have FLAAHLESS.
In the other corner, we have DRIZZT3117.

They are meeting for the umpteenth time today.
Alright men, I want a good, clean fight.

GO!!!
(Even though you guys aren't really fighting, I like dramatizing it anyways.)

 

[flaahless]

Whether or not that was the case in the past, it is not now, as the groups that are primarily benefiting from AA are African Americans and Hispanic-Americans, which is perhaps one of the reasons attitudes towards AA has changed.

No its not. How many african americans and hispanic americans are benefitting from AA? Not many. That's a major fallacy largely influenced by the covert racism of american culture. America is just so fricking paranoid to share wealth/power that they overexaggerate and embellish the benefits of AA. Pre-1970, there were VERY FEW white female physicians. They didn't really boom until the early 80s to mid 90s. They benefitted the MOST out of any other group, statistically.AA is a system to give disadvantaged groups a chance at success. When it was founded, it was supported by civil rights activists, womens rights activists, the LGBT community and various other activist groups of the 70s. Just because african americans remain the most vocal, proponents of AA please don't restrict it to some racist BS used to give black peole an easier time.

 

[drizzt3117]

No its not. How many african americans and hispanic americans are benefitting from AA?

How many whites, asians, or people of any other race besides hispanics and blacks are benefiting from AA? Whether or not it's a huge effect, in the context of admissions which is what we're discussing, they're the only racial groups (besides Native Americans) that are given preference. You can argue that the effect isn't that big but that could certainly be due to the fact that among URMs there aren't that many qualified candidates even with lower standards.

Again, IMO, the factor that should be taken into account should be SES.

 

[flaahless]

How many whites, asians, or people of any other race besides hispanics and blacks are benefiting from AA? Whether or not it's a huge effect, in the context of admissions which is what we're discussing, they're the only racial groups (besides Native Americans) that are given preference. You can argue that the effect isn't that big but that could certainly be due to the fact that among URMs there aren't that many qualified candidates even with lower standards.

Again, IMO, the factor that should be taken into account should be SES.

I'm done dawg.

 

[riceman04]

How many whites, asians, or people of any other race besides hispanics and blacks are benefiting from AA? Whether or not it's a huge effect, in the context of admissions which is what we're discussing, they're the only racial groups (besides Native Americans) that are given preference. You can argue that the effect isn't that big but that could certainly be due to the fact that among URMs there aren't that many qualified candidates even with lower standards.

Again, IMO, the factor that should be taken into account should be SES.

Med schools do consider ones socioeconomic status when reviewing applicants. Check MSAR if you don't believe me

damn...I am busting bubbles left and right!!!!!

 

[drizzt3117]

Med schools do consider ones socioeconomic status when reviewing applicants. Check MSAR if you don't believe me

damn...I am busting bubbles left and right!!!!!

Right, my contention is that that SES should be the only criteria considered except for URMs that show a commitment toward helping the underserved.

 

[riceman04]

How many whites, asians, or people of any other race besides hispanics and blacks are benefiting from AA? Whether or not it's a huge effect, in the context of admissions which is what we're discussing, they're the only racial groups (besides Native Americans) that are given preference. You can argue that the effect isn't that big but that could certainly be due to the fact that among URMs there aren't that many qualified candidates even with lower standards.

Again, IMO, the factor that should be taken into account should be SES.

hey wait...if they are not qualified then the majority of them should not be graduating...right? Is that a fair conclusion to make based on your statement?

hmmmmmm👎

 

[riceman04]

So drizz I am also wondering if you are an advocate for improving the discrepancies in the (public) education system as well.


Yeah...AA policies do need to be updated. But what bothers me is that many of the people who are fighting to have AA policies defined as unconstitutional will not take their argument one step further and suggest methods for addressing the base of the issue at hand. Many people are happy with the idea of fighting for something that only affects their status/well being/ access/etc...instead of fighting for the overall improvement of social issues and injustices that currently (and most likely will continue to) plague our society.

 

[drizzt3117]

hey wait...if they are not qualified then the majority of them should not be graduating...right? Is that a fair conclusion to make based on your statement?

hmmmmmm👎

No, flahless said that not that many Hispanics and African Americans were being helped by AA and my contention was that one of the reasons why not that many were being helped was because there wasn't that many qualified candidiates even with the lower standards.

BRPM posted an article that claimed that URM candidates had a much higher attrition rate then non-URMs. I didn't read the article so I can't comment but the study was by AAMC, and that wasn't the point I was trying to make with that statement in any case.

 

[drizzt3117]

So drizz I am also wondering if you are an advocate for improving the discrepancies in the (public) education system as well.

Absolutely. I think the root of the problem is helping to resolve the public secondary and pre-secondary education system.

 

[riceman04]

No, flahless said that not that many Hispanics and African Americans were being helped by AA and my contention was that one of the reasons why not that many were being helped was because there wasn't that many qualified candidiates even with the lower standards.

BRPM posted an article that claimed that URM candidates had a much higher attrition rate then non-URMs. I didn't read the article so I can't comment but the study was by AAMC, and that wasn't the point I was trying to make with that statement in any case.

oh I see

 

[Long Dong]

I think it's just harder for everyone to make a dollar out of 15 cents.

 

[etf]

Onto GPA, is a 3.5 really different than a 3.7? .

is two-tenths of a gpa a big deal? well, it would turn my 3.4 into a 3.6, and i believe that one change alone would make me a markedly more competitive applicant.