Hardest Undergrad Schools?

[BrownianMotion]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

Just wondering what other people think. From what I've gathered, my votes:

Hardest in terms of grading: UChicago
Most cut-throat/competitive: Hopkins
Hardest Ivy: Cornell
Hardest State School: UC-Berkeley

 

[spanamit]

Hardest in terms of grading: UChicago

Don't know much about them.

Most cut-throat/competitive: Hopkins

Maybe a toss up between them and WashU.

Hardest Ivy: Cornell

Probably.

Hardest State School: UC-Berkeley

Definitely.

 

[sillydoc2230]

Cornell as the hardest ivy depends on the specific school. Its engineering school is def the hardest. Its agriculture school... not too sure.

And state school wise I think I've heard UMich and UVA are pretty hard as well. Berkeley may be a bit harder though.

all else agreed.

 

[littlealex]

I don't know how Hopkins get this bad rep, but we're really pretty chill here...

 

[-Goose-]

Vanderbilt has massive grade deflation.

 

[KifsterDDS]

I'm going to vote for UVA as the hardest undergrauate school, for the following reasons:

1. It only accepts in-state Virginians with very strong credentials (i.e. it's hard to get into, even if you're a Virginian. That's an obvious point, however.

2. Fairfax County Public Schools. It's one of the top school systems in the country. As far as I know, Fairfax County produces stronger college-bound students than elsewhere in Virginia (and probably most other states). I've heard that UVA has put a cap on the number of students it will accept from Fairfax County (although I've never seen this in writing).

3. Despite being a state school, it accepts a high number of out of state students. 40% of my graduating class was out of state. In order to get in to UVA from another state, you have to have substantially stronger credentials than even the qualified in-state students.

4. Tuition. Tuition at UVA is very reasonable. It always has been. Hence, there are a heck of a lot of ivy-league caliber students who attend UVA because it is a better bargain. Tuition is far less, and sometimes they get full rides.

So, if you're the average Virginian attending UVA, you've got lots of competition.

 

[Nyx1622]

Let's not forget the small liberal arts schools: Swarthmore, Carleton, etc. Some of them can be quite intense...

 

[toxicgate]

Cornell as the hardest ivy depends on the specific school. Its engineering school is def the hardest. Its agriculture school... not too sure.

And state school wise I think I've heard UMich and UVA are pretty hard as well. Berkeley may be a bit harder though.

all else agreed.

People in the agriculture school can take the same classes as people in the engineering school, I for one did, and being in the agriculture school did not make it easier. So i don't know where you come off saying that a specific schools has it easier at Cornell. Saying that specific majors have it easier might be a better statement, however every school has their easy majors. Most people claim that the majors in the hotel school have it easy, but most people in the hotel school usually get a B or B-. I actually lived with someone in the hotel school that worked as hard if not harder than engineers and still didn't get all A's. So its all relative and being the agriculture was not a walk in the park.

 

[lawnboy313]

Let's not forget the small liberal arts schools: Swarthmore, Carleton, etc. Some of them can be quite intense...

I second that...I transferred from Cornell to Oberlin during undergrad and got my academic arse kicked for the first time at Oberlin.

 

[littlealex]

Toxi don't be offended. I think he just meant very generally, like Underwater Basketweaving is easier than Biomedical Engineering. We don't doubt that there are hard classes and each school is equally competitive. However, the general consensus is that engineering school's courses are harder.

Mind you that while you did take classes at the engineering school, there are easy and hard classes within engineering too. It is often the math/physics/chemistry intensive upper level classes that give engineering its reputation.

I say this because I was an engineer for quite a bit of college before switching to the liberal arts, and damn, liberal arts really is easier.


---
Lawboy: I agree with you. I have a very smart friend from high school that went to Harvey Mudd and thought it was incredibly competitive there.

 

[boo-yeh]

I'm going to vote for UVA as the hardest undergrauate school, for the following reasons:

1. It only accepts in-state Virginians with very strong credentials (i.e. it's hard to get into, even if you're a Virginian. That's an obvious point, however.

2. Fairfax County Public Schools. It's one of the top school systems in the country. As far as I know, Fairfax County produces stronger college-bound students than elsewhere in Virginia (and probably most other states). I've heard that UVA has put a cap on the number of students it will accept from Fairfax County (although I've never seen this in writing).

3. Despite being a state school, it accepts a high number of out of state students. 40% of my graduating class was out of state. In order to get in to UVA from another state, you have to have substantially stronger credentials than even the qualified in-state students.

4. Tuition. Tuition at UVA is very reasonable. It always has been. Hence, there are a heck of a lot of ivy-league caliber students who attend UVA because it is a better bargain. Tuition is far less, and sometimes they get full rides.

So, if you're the average Virginian attending UVA, you've got lots of competition.

I second this last point. I don't know really anything about Berkeley, so I can only attest to how difficult UVa was. The problem was that there was a fair amount of grade deflation and around 50% of the school (and probably a greater % of premeds) were from what some can argue is the best school system in the country (Northern Virginia). Competition was ridiculous at times (especially if you came from a very bad high school in the boonies and was thrown into the fray with magnet schoolers).

Then again, Berkeley's the best of everyone in the state of California...that's a hell of a lot of people.

 

[riceman04]

I'd say that Berkeley is the hardest state school

Now lets names the schools with the most number of national merit scholars.....🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

This thread is so pointless

 

[somethingpositi]

I vote for Harvard as the hardest Ivy. 🙂

 

[ssquared]

I'm going to vote for UVA as the hardest undergrauate school, for the following reasons:

1. It only accepts in-state Virginians with very strong credentials (i.e. it's hard to get into, even if you're a Virginian. That's an obvious point, however.

2. Fairfax County Public Schools. It's one of the top school systems in the country. As far as I know, Fairfax County produces stronger college-bound students than elsewhere in Virginia (and probably most other states). I've heard that UVA has put a cap on the number of students it will accept from Fairfax County (although I've never seen this in writing).

3. Despite being a state school, it accepts a high number of out of state students. 40% of my graduating class was out of state. In order to get in to UVA from another state, you have to have substantially stronger credentials than even the qualified in-state students.

4. Tuition. Tuition at UVA is very reasonable. It always has been. Hence, there are a heck of a lot of ivy-league caliber students who attend UVA because it is a better bargain. Tuition is far less, and sometimes they get full rides.

So, if you're the average Virginian attending UVA, you've got lots of competition.

And I'm going to add in William and Mary for those very same reasons. The guidebooks call the school "academic bootcamp," and probably harder than UVA (although I suppose that's debatable).

(as for that cap for UVA, I think it's probably true; UVA uses a system to make sure they have students from every part of the state. Like, they only allocate 100 spots for TJ kids, and about 10-25 spots for other FCPS high schools.)

I don't know how Hopkins get this bad rep, but we're really pretty chill here...

Even Hopkins admits to the reputation. My mom gets their alumni magazine, and they frequently have articles on how unhappy their undergrads are. When I visited as a prospective student I certainly didn't get a "chill" vibe. In fact, my parents made me leave halfway through the tour because they said I wasn't going to such a high-stress school.

 

[BigRedPremed]

The bio major in the Ag School at Cornell is just as hard as the bio major in Arts and Sciences since the students take the same classes. However, the majors traditionally regarded as rigorous (the hard sciences, engineering, math, etc.) are all in Arts and Sciences or Engineering which are also the two most selective schools. The Ag School does have the easiest major at Cornell: Applied Economics and Management and also Communications, which is traditionally regarded as easy.

 

[PREMEDWOAHS]

I'd say Binghamton is up there now. When I got in it wasn't too too hard, now you need at least a 3.8 GPA and a 1350 on your SAT.

And everyone comes in as Pre-Med and the professors hate it so the tests are all impossibly hard to narrow down the field to a select few before O-Chem starts.

 

[alok]

Berkeley is one of the hardest schools because there is so much competition between students (mostly Asians). The grading curve can be sometimes rigid, especially for the sciences.

 

[AppleseedCast]

I agree with the post about small liberal arts colleges. Some I would add to the list are amherst, smith, marlboro, etc.

 

[MossPoh]

The hardest schools almost alway sseem to be the smaller ones. Many of the smartest people I know came from very small schools. You tend to be expected to do more there...the profs aren't there for research as much as teaching.

Considering you never mentioned the US. I'll say that I got my ass rocked at Humboldt in germany. I am pretty sure my friend at oxford has it pretty rough as well. Humbold though I was taking lit classes and reading 5 to 6 books a week at one point. In german. The hardest part was that we were just expected to do it....not much in the way of holding your hand. The only grade for my one class was the exam at the end.

Most of the others had two essay exams at about 2 hours long. You are also generally expected to be writing papers on your break to submit later. I spent 3 weeks writing a paper. 6 hours a day, everyday. Got it proofread 3 times by a pH in applied linguistics (this was a lit. science course). I got a B on it. Rankings are too US News-ish to me.

 

[The Doctor]

Vanderbilt has massive grade deflation.

I second this - the extreme level of grade deflation in science courses at Vanderbilt is tremendous (for example, only several A's in the intro-biosci courses, each section having 200+ people). You really have to witness the agony of the omnipresent bell curve first-hand to understand.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I'm going to vote for UVA as the hardest undergrauate school, for the following reasons:

1. It only accepts in-state Virginians with very strong credentials (
2. Fairfax County Public Schools.
3. it accepts a high number of out of state students. 40% of my graduating class was out of state.
4. Tuition. Tuition at UVA is very reasonable.

All true points but I havent taken classes at Berkley. Berkley kids seem smart enough too.

I second this last point. I don't know really anything about Berkeley, so I can only attest to how difficult UVa was. The problem was that there was a fair amount of grade deflation and around 50% of the school (and probably a greater % of premeds) were from what some can argue is the best school system in the country (Northern Virginia). Competition was ridiculous at times (especially if you came from a very bad high school in the boonies and was thrown into the fray with magnet schoolers).

Then again, Berkeley's the best of everyone in the state of California...that's a hell of a lot of people.

While there was grade deflation, I have to say I never felt much cutthroat competition at UVA. The kids are just too laid back.

For the record UVa should be ranked #1 public school like it was when I went there but our F-ing legislature and governor screwed us over by cutting massive funding so we dropped to #2.

And I'm going to add in William and Mary for those very same reasons. The guidebooks call the school "academic bootcamp," and probably harder than UVA (although I suppose that's debatable).

Yeah but only crazy people go to W&M. Not crazy like stupid, but crazy as in insane. I too would find it hard if everyday on my way to class I had to watch the police coax another student down from a building so they wouldnt jump.

 

[cnoevil]

my skool is harder than your skool....

This thread is so pointless

uhuh...just about right

 

[etf]

berkeley is DEFINITELY an "undergrade" school, in that your grade is usually under what you deserve.

 

[spanamit]

Considering you never mentioned the US.

Internationally, I would say some of the world's most difficult schools are the IITs (Indian Institute of Technology).

This is what CBS the 60 min show said about IIT:
"Combine MIT, Princeton and Caltech, then what you will get: IIT."


According to wikipedia, for 5500 seats in the IIT, there are 300,000 applicants!
(compare that to med admissions 🙂)

 

[EBI831]

I agree with the MIT suggestion. I disagree with UVA, even UGA and UT-Austin i believe only accept the top people mainly from their states and UNC-Chapel Hill too. I think UVA may be hard but not hardest public school, i think Berkeley might just be harder. As for Vanderbilt, as a Vandy grad i'd have to agree with the science grade deflation but i'd rather call it lack of grade inflation and picky jerks for teachers who even when you're answer is right and defended by textbooks will say no i'm still marking you wrong b/c that's not what i taught..grr. but when you get out of the sciences and even then i feel its mainly biology (not all the sciences), the liberal arts were a breeze to me and not that tough at all. As for Harvard being the hardest Ivy, i sure hope not. i've seen my brother's massive curves in econ and the fact that you guys have 2 weeks to study for finals and i have to disagree...we didn't get such generous curves and we only have about 2 actual reading days. But, as someone pointed out, this thread may just be useless b/c everyone will pick their own school (except me that is).

 

[boo-yeh]

While there was grade deflation, I have to say I never felt much cutthroat competition at UVA. The kids are just too laid back.

For the record UVa should be ranked #1 public school like it was when I went there but our F-ing legislature and governor screwed us over by cutting massive funding so we dropped to #2.

Are we talking about the same school?🙄

Definitely right about the state government screwing the school...how can a state be so proud of its university and support it so little?

 

[TheRealMD]

I agree with the MIT suggestion. I disagree with UVA, even UGA and UT-Austin i believe only accept the top people mainly from their states and UNC-Chapel Hill too. I think UVA may be hard but not hardest public school, i think Berkeley might just be harder. As for Vanderbilt, as a Vandy grad i'd have to agree with the science grade deflation but i'd rather call it lack of grade inflation and picky jerks for teachers who even when you're answer is right and defended by textbooks will say no i'm still marking you wrong b/c that's not what i taught..grr. but when you get out of the sciences and even then i feel its mainly biology (not all the sciences), the liberal arts were a breeze to me and not that tough at all. As for Harvard being the hardest Ivy, i sure hope not. i've seen my brother's massive curves in econ and the fact that you guys have 2 weeks to study for finals and i have to disagree...we didn't get such generous curves and we only have about 2 actual reading days. But, as someone pointed out, this thread may just be useless b/c everyone will pick their own school (except me that is).

I go to UT-Austin and 70% of our freshman class was top 10% in their high school. I wouldn't call it uber-competitive though after getting in; there are some people who slack off because they can.

 

[maestro1625]

Just because you got a C in organic does not make your school "hard"

 

[riceman04]

Just because you got a C in organic does not make your school "hard"

 

[Jolie South]

I go to UT-Austin and 70% of our freshman class was top 10% in their high school. I wouldn't call it uber-competitive though after getting in; there are some people who slack off because they can.

UT Austin doesn't have a competitive atmosphere, but the classes are hard. I had to bust my arse in my pre-reqs and my upperdivision bio classes. Even the "so-called" blow off classes are hard. I got a B in classical mythology and american studies.

Comparing hard science, my upperdivision sciences at UT were way harder than the hard science graduate classes that I took for my Master's.

 

[Koch]

DeVry

 

[AnesthesiaMD]

a 3.0 at Berkley doesn't look any better than a 3.0 at Western Kentucky U. to an adcom. Therefore, it doesn't matter who is the toughest.

 

[spanamit]

a 3.0 at Berkley doesn't look any better than a 3.0 at Western Kentucky U. to an adcom.

But a 4.0 does. 😉

And it is Berkeley.

 

[maestro1625]

DeVry

hey now, that joke could be considered offensive on the Carib board... they own Ross U.

 

[bigman43]

university of phoenix.

"one univeristy understands how you live today and where you want to go tomorrow"

my fat ASS! i thought i could get a degree and further my edumacation while flipping burgers at white castle, but they made me take tests and ****. man, they took all my money and they wont even give me a certifimacate.

-monique

 

[streetlight]

whoever mentioned MIT is right and wrong. here the science/engineering majors are massively hard with huge grade deflation, but if you major in humanities/sloan management, it's pretty easy. my science classes have all been really tough, but the humanities classes i've taken have been the easiest classes ever. nonetheless, every person has to take bio,chem,phys 1, phys 2 so the first year is usually tough for everyone regardless of major

 

[riceman04]

DeVry

We all know The University of Phoenix is the best school in America...hey...they even own a stadium

 

[alwaysaangel]

I'm not so sure that Berkeley is the hardest state undergrad in the country.

Its not THAT competitive or THAT hard here. Yes some classes the curves suck but sometimes they're awesomely helpful to your grade. More than once I admit I probably deserved like a C or B but instead got B or A because the curve was so frickin' generous.

I don't really have many other state schools to compare it to since I've never been to one, but to be honest - I think we just have more whiney undergrads than other state schools - so it LOOKS like we're the toughest. We have a lot of kids here who are pretty privileged and think they're entitled to As, others like to blame their own failure to study on those who did study, and a ton are just neurotic type A personalities who just get pissy if anything doesn't go there way. I don't think any other school ends up with quite so many of these kinds of people.

 

[inaminute]

Gawd, my undergrad must be real shi**y. I don't know what an "undergrade" is.

Some of you need to look up the phrase "apples to oranges."

 

[jochi1543]

I'd say Binghamton is up there now. When I got in it wasn't too too hard, now you need at least a 3.8 GPA and a 1350 on your SAT.

Yeah, the stats for some schools have really gone up. I went to a small liberal arts school in the Midwest, and I remember when I applied in 2001-2002, it was rated "Very selective." Now it's "Most selective." The SATs for middle 50% are 1260-1480 now, and I remember that my 1460 was well above that range in 2001-2002.🙄 I think the ad in the NYT a couple of years ago helped, given the location of the school - we never got as many applicants as East Coast schools, so it was hard to get into that 1400 SAT range.

 

[BluePhoenix]

I'd have to vote for Harvey Mudd. It's ranked as the #1 Engineering school, #14 for Liberal Arts schools. It's a small school most people haven't heard of, most of the time...they find you. It's a science school, thus it's required of all students to take physics, engineering, biology, chemistry, computer science, and math classes...with labs, during your first two years. Despite those requirements, it also requires a large number of humanities classes, as well as a humanities concentration.

In terms of the student body, the median scores on the SAT were around 2230 (about 730+ in all three areas). 93% were in the top 10% of their class. Despire the stellar candidates coming in, there is NO grade inflation at this school and the average GPA is typically between a 3 and 3.2. Students tend to take around 18 credits a semester, generally with at least 12 credits of science classes.

 

[ssquared]

Yeah but only crazy people go to W&M. Not crazy like stupid, but crazy as in insane. I too would find it hard if everyday on my way to class I had to watch the police coax another student down from a building so they wouldnt jump.

That's a terrible thing to say.

I have a friend who goes to W&M whose roommate committed suicide. I don't think it's very funny when people joke about it. He would have to agree.

And whoever made up that statistic about W&M having the highest suicide rate in the country was just bitter they got rejected. Any college campus has a lower suicide rate than the national average, because college kids have a lower rate than their non-student peers.

 

[cnoevil]

And whoever made up that statistic about W&M having the highest suicide rate in the country was just bitter they got rejected.

i agree with this, i figure harvard and mit rates have got to be higher.

 

[sultana]

As far as state schools go, I think that my undergrad, University of Washington has gotta be up there. esp. courses in the Natural Sciences are hard as hell and cutthroat competitive, and the curves are just insane--particularly in anything chemistry or biology related.

 

[bigman43]

That's a terrible thing to say.

I have a friend who goes to W&M whose roommate committed suicide. I don't think it's very funny when people joke about it. He would have to agree.

And whoever made up that statistic about W&M having the highest suicide rate in the country was just bitter they got rejected. Any college campus has a lower suicide rate than the national average, because college kids have a lower rate than their non-student peers.

im sorry, but i think anyone who glorifies suicide really needs to shut up. i really think college students that commit suicide are serioiusly, massive cowards (yes, the p word). its a sort of funny darwinian mechanism.

 

[maestro1625]

Yeah, the stats for some schools have really gone up. I went to a small liberal arts school in the Midwest, and I remember when I applied in 2001-2002, it was rated "Very selective." Now it's "Most selective." The SATs for middle 50% are 1260-1480 now, and I remember that my 1460 was well above that range in 2001-2002.🙄 I think the ad in the NYT a couple of years ago helped, given the location of the school - we never got as many applicants as East Coast schools, so it was hard to get into that 1400 SAT range.

K?

 

[Nyx1622]

im sorry, but i think anyone who glorifies suicide really needs to shut up. i really think college students that commit suicide are serioiusly, massive cowards (yes, the p word). its a sort of funny darwinian mechanism.

Ahh, the up and coming superstars of knowledgeable, sensitive healthcare. We're all in great hands.

 

[bigman43]

Ahh, the up and coming superstars of knowledgeable, sensitive healthcare. We're all in great hands.

well, if you commit suicide, you are going to like the 8th layer of hell anyway, so whatever.

 

[Koch]

Yeah, the stats for some schools have really gone up. I went to a small liberal arts school in the Midwest, and I remember when I applied in 2001-2002, it was rated "Very selective." Now it's "Most selective." The SATs for middle 50% are 1260-1480 now, and I remember that my 1460 was well above that range in 2001-2002.🙄 I think the ad in the NYT a couple of years ago helped, given the location of the school - we never got as many applicants as East Coast schools, so it was hard to get into that 1400 SAT range.

You guys realize the SAT has changed right? 1260-1480 isn't exactly an impressive range anymore. I'm not saying your school is bad, because it's not. I'm just saying you've got to put it in context.

 

[Agent47]

Oakland community College!!