See, the fact that they put something into their school handbook that expressly states that gay relationships are not allowed on campus IS "prejudiced ignorance" plain and simple. I don't need to visit the campus to know that the school discriminates against gay people. Therefore, I don't think my attacks on the school are ungrounded as you seem to think. Now, you can call me prejudiced and ignorant for thinking that their stringent policy on this issue is idiotic, misguided, and discriminatory, but I'm sorry, that's just the way I feel (and probably half the country feels). And yeah, the gay students (if there even are any) there probably are tortured (at least psychologically), so you're wrong. Finally, why should I respect fundamentalist christian's beliefs when they don't respect mine. They think gay people should not be allowed to marry or adopt children and actively support government policies against gay rights. How is that respecting of gay people and the people who support them? And of course there are people willing to go to that school. Most of them are probably fundamentalist christian, live nearby, or couldn't get into another pharmacy school.
Harding Pharmacy, New Private Pharmacy school in Arkansas
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See, the fact that they put something into their school handbook that expressly states that gay relationships are not allowed on campus IS "prejudiced ignorance" plain and simple. I don't need to visit the campus to know that the school discriminates against gay people. Therefore, I don't think my attacks on the school are ungrounded as you seem to think. Now, you can call me prejudiced and ignorant for thinking that their stringent policy on this issue is idiotic, misguided, and discriminatory, but I'm sorry, that's just the way I feel (and probably half the country feels). And yeah, the gay students (if there even are any) there probably are tortured (at least psychologically), so you're wrong. Finally, why should I respect fundamentalist christian's beliefs when they don't respect mine. They think gay people should not be allowed to marry or adopt children and actively support government policies against gay rights. How is that respecting of gay people and the people who support them? And of course there are people willing to go to that school. Most of them are probably fundamentalist christian, live nearby, or couldn't get into another pharmacy school.
The separate peer groups idea would be fine except that when your peer group starts telling the gay people in my peer group that they can't adopt children or get married because you don't like it. That's when my peer group starts to have a real problem with your peer group.
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If nature wanted you to have kids then humans would have been created to produce offspring without having a partner of the opposite sex. Sorry. Furthermore, I am glad that you are not coming to our school. You are way combative and have some anger issues. Good luck with whatever you choose to do!
Ha, well, I was never going to attend your school. It doesn't even have full accreditation. I'd rather go to a place with a more established reputation. Even so, the only reason I'm angry is because of people like you who say gay people are "unnatural" and so therefore we should deny them civil rights (and yes, marriage equality and being able to adopt and raise a family are civil rights). You basically say that since they can't have kids through sex that therefore they are unfit to be parents and unfit to share in the government sponsored and protected bond of marriage (gay people aren't asking to be married in your podunk hicksville church or for you personally to recognize their marriage. They want the government to recognize their marriage. That's all.). Barren women can't have kids through sex but I don't think you would argue they shouldn't be able to adopt either. Your position is based on discrimination against gay people pure and simple.
And by the way, nature isn't perfect. That's why there are people with down syndrome. And so you need to accommodate the imperfections of nature. And gay people aren't even asking YOU to accommodate anything. They just want equal marriage and adoptive rights like everyone else. They aren't going to bother YOU in the slightest.
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There is no reason to take time to argue this point. Good luck with school, may you have happiness and peace. I would ask that you take your one-way agenda to a different forum where people want to discuss it. This is not that forum. Have a good one.
Why is it whenever people talk about civil rights for gay people it is always framed by its opponents as some kind of evil "agenda"? There is plenty of reason to argue this point because everyday gay people have great difficulty adopting children and starting a family of their own, lose out on social security survivor benefits that come with marriage, and in some cases even lose their jobs because their employer simply doesn't like that they are gay. I think it's perfectly appropriate to argue these points in a forum that has to do with a school that actively discriminates against gay people.
Just so people can see for themselves here is a link to the Harding University student handbook:
http://www.harding.edu/PDF/STUDENT_HANDBOOK.PDF
Some gems that I have highlighted below:
"Unusual hairstyles or unnatural hair colors are not permitted."
"Hair should be neatly trimmed off the collar and free of extreme styles such as ponytails."
(yeah, ponytails are super contrary to god's teachings)
"Visiting in the residence of a single member of the opposite gender, even though others are present, without permission is prohibited. Staying overnight in a motel, hotel or any such arrangement with a member of the opposite gender will result in suspension, although explicit sexual immorality may not have been observed." (this means even if you live off-campus you can't reside with someone you're not married to!)
"Display of an attitude that is contrary to the Christian purpose for which Harding exists [will result in disciplinary action]." (talk about vague! and talk about big brother thought police! "hmmm, your attitude doesn't seem quite christian enough today... 3 day suspension!")
"Students are not allowed to social dance." (yipes, looks like kevin bacon needs to unleash some footloose action on this campus)
Oh, and please be aware that all of the above apply to both graduate/professional students and undergraduates.
http://www.harding.edu/PDF/STUDENT_HANDBOOK.PDF
Some gems that I have highlighted below:
"Unusual hairstyles or unnatural hair colors are not permitted."
"Hair should be neatly trimmed off the collar and free of extreme styles such as ponytails."
(yeah, ponytails are super contrary to god's teachings)"Visiting in the residence of a single member of the opposite gender, even though others are present, without permission is prohibited. Staying overnight in a motel, hotel or any such arrangement with a member of the opposite gender will result in suspension, although explicit sexual immorality may not have been observed." (this means even if you live off-campus you can't reside with someone you're not married to!)
"Display of an attitude that is contrary to the Christian purpose for which Harding exists [will result in disciplinary action]." (talk about vague! and talk about big brother thought police! "hmmm, your attitude doesn't seem quite christian enough today... 3 day suspension!")
"Students are not allowed to social dance." (yipes, looks like kevin bacon needs to unleash some footloose action on this campus
)Oh, and please be aware that all of the above apply to both graduate/professional students and undergraduates.
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unevache, I honestly don't understand why you are wasting your time badmouthing Harding University.
Life is not fair, get over it. If you're so displeased by Harding's rules and regulations, go open a Pharmacy school of your own and make up the rules that you want.
Students who are displeased with a school's codes should not apply there, period. If you agree to attend a school, then you are obligated to follow the rules that they have set forth. If you are displeased with it, then simply don't go.
You are acting like Harding University is putting a knife to your throat forcing you to attend their school.
You don't have to "let people see for themselves" anything. If you don't throughly research the school before applying there, and were displeased with it once you are a student there, then that's your fault.
If people have the right to embrace people who are gay, then other people have the right to not embrace it. You are mad and angry because other people don't believe in being gay. Well it is quite tough to please everyone, so just do what make you happiest- YOU SHOULD NOT APPLY TO HARDING, and let them do what makes them happy.
Life is not fair, get over it. If you're so displeased by Harding's rules and regulations, go open a Pharmacy school of your own and make up the rules that you want.
Students who are displeased with a school's codes should not apply there, period. If you agree to attend a school, then you are obligated to follow the rules that they have set forth. If you are displeased with it, then simply don't go.
You are acting like Harding University is putting a knife to your throat forcing you to attend their school.
You don't have to "let people see for themselves" anything. If you don't throughly research the school before applying there, and were displeased with it once you are a student there, then that's your fault.
If people have the right to embrace people who are gay, then other people have the right to not embrace it. You are mad and angry because other people don't believe in being gay. Well it is quite tough to please everyone, so just do what make you happiest- YOU SHOULD NOT APPLY TO HARDING, and let them do what makes them happy.
I never said you had to embrace gay people. There is a difference between not embracing gay people and banning them from your university if they announce their sexual orientation. There is a difference between not embracing gay people and supporting the government's use of force in preventing gay families from adopting children. If you cannot see this distinction then you are truly blind.
On another note, Harding's student handbook also spells out a rule saying "beards are to be neatly trimmed." Check out the guy your university is named after, James A. Harding: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Harding . The ironic twist is that James A. Harding, who was known for his challenging ideas, his refusal to give in to political and religious pressures, and his thick unruly beard, would probably not have gotten on well at today's narrow-minded, doctrinaire, conformist, we'll treat you like a 13-year-old at summer camp Harding University.
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I would tend to agree with Winterlily05. Just leave it alone. Pharmacy is a VERY small world and you don't want to go spouting out words you someday may have to eat! Take my advice and leave it alone. Lipscomb has the same rules more or less and I don't see you going after them. Just get over it and move on. Like I have said in the previous posts...Good luck with whatever you choose to do and have a good one.
I'll leave it alone when you and your religion leave gay families alone and allow them to adopt and have the same rights as any other family. Until that day your precious neo-conservative, 1950s era-loving Harding University can kiss my butt and suck up the criticism.
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It isn't my religion. Besides the Boy Scouts of America doesn't allow homosexuals to be scout leaders and I don't see you on those forums crying your eyes out because of the oppression. Grow up and move on. There are about 100 other schools to apply to!
My main beef is not with the university (although banning gay people is certainly a pretty big beef I have against it). My main beef is with the kind of people the university churns out-- sending these new students out into the world to actively oppress gay people and other people that they deem as not following their specific traditions. You can have your traditions and that is fine, but don't go telling others what kind of family they can have. That's where you cross the line. And that's why there is so much push back against you religious fundamentalists and why people denigrate your opinions and your traditions at every turn. Sure, someone who is gay could go to another pharmacy school, but what then if they want to get married and start a family after pharmacy school? Do they have to go to another country as well? (yes, i realize that there are a few states that recognize gay marriage in this country but the vast majority do not and the federal government does not recognize any of the state gay marriages.)
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Are you even from Arkansas?
No, but why does that matter? There are plenty of other states in this union that are just like Arkansas in these respects. No one ever said you must be from a specific place to fight injustice being perpetrated in that place.
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If not why don't you apply to your own state school? It would be cheaper. They can't discriminate against your sexual orientation or anything of that nature. I just find it EXTREMELY odd that you would pick Harding of ALL Christian schools to come out against. I think you got rejected from here or you saw our principles and were offended. I call them like I see them. Sorry about the way you feel but it won't change our policies. MOVE ON!
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I hope that all is well in Iowa 🙂
I will attend my state university's pharmacy school beginning in the fall. There are plenty of christian schools out there that I have no problem with. They don't ban gay people. They seek to understand rather than just say "oh, you're a *** [gay expletive in case it gets blocked] so you're expelled." That is why I picked out Harding University. That and they are one of only a few doctrinaire christian schools that has a pharmacy school. I never applied there, but yes, I think it is pretty self-evident that I am extremely offended by their discriminatory policies. And I know this won't change your policies. All I hope is that those who see Harding University on the Student Doctor Network will seriously think twice about attending. Even many of the most devout Christians would think twice about attending school in such a narrow-minded, stifling environment.
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Might want to change your status from Pre-pharmacy to pharmacy student.
All is well. It is one of the few states that believes in equality--a unanimous Iowa Supreme Court decision saying that all the fundamentalist christian arguments against gay marriage made no legal sense whatsoever and were incredibly discriminatory. Thus they lifted the insane ban on gay marriage and hopefully helped to push this country one step closer to achieving true justice.
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Okaaaaaaayyyyy, at first I just thought you are one ignorant and immature individual who had nothing better to do than spend your time bashing a school that you are not familiar with.
When you pulled that criticism about the "beard" rule, I realized that you have more problems than I had fathomed. You do realized that James A. Harding was born in 1848. I doubt that few men during that era doesn't wear a beard like that. If Harding University require that their male students wear bears like that in this day and age, then I would definitely view them as extremist.
I don't think it is unreasonable to ask PROFESSIONAL students to get their beards neat and tidy.
And you are mad that Harding is supporting the government's ideals? Your anger seemed to be misplaced. You are acting like Harding has control of the whole United States. They have their own little space, and you are not forced to attend their school. If you are not happy with that place, then you simply don't have to live there. I still don't know what your problem is, but ok, whatever makes you happy.
Last but not least, like I have stated before, it's not like Harding is trying to hide their guidelines. You can read everything in their handbook. If students don't do research before attending Harding, and were surprised when they are at Harding, then it's nobody's fault but their own.
I was personally very impressed with Harding University when I visited there (and I am not even a Christian, nor do I share any of their values). The students there seemed very happy and relaxed, and had nothing but good things to say about the school. If you feel that Harding can offer you the environment that you seek, then great. If not, get over it and move on.
The extreme rightwing fundamentalist christians completely control the republican party's social agenda and they even control some of the democrats as well. Anyone who denies the power of these activist neo-conservative christianists has not been following american politics very closely. I won't move on until they stop forcing their discriminatory policies on others at the local, state, and federal level. Until the day they realize they shouldn't tell others how to structure their families and how to live their lives I will be in these fundies faces, taunting their traditions, lambasting their beliefs, and being an overall annoyance to them. Call that immature if you like, but I put up with these people at my high school and in politics for so long and I'm no longer going to sit and be silent about it. A lot of these christian conservatives are repugnant people and even if Jesus came down from heaven tomorrow and said gay people were loved the most by God and homosexuality was not a sin but instead brought you closer to God, a lot of these fundamentalists would still go on hating gay people. Their hatred and disgust is THAT deep seated.
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Great, I hope you have a grand time doing just that. As for the rest of us, I think we'd rather worry about other people starving or lacking medicial care all over the world.
Yeah, that's exactly the argument they used for civil rights for black people. "We're in a war (Vietnam), seniors are without medical coverage (medicare), communism is spreading throughout the world." These are all excuses they used in the 50s and early 60s to justify kicking the ball down the field so they wouldn't have to do something about civil rights. In many ways it's the same story today. There is never a good time for talking about these issues for most politicians because civil rights issues are often contentious. And Americans never think there is a good time to take action on these issues because most simply don't care since these issues only directly affect a small minority of citizens. But for those who care about achieving peace, prosperity, equality, and justice at home while still trying to achieve those goals abroad, gay rights issues are important issues that must be addressed now.
Finally, I will just close with this. People have every right not to "believe in being gay." That's fine. They don't have to be gay! However, why do they have the right to prevent gay people from having families? Why do they have the right to prevent gay people from having the same benefits of marriage that they take for granted? It is one thing to personally not accept homosexuality and it is another thing entirely to shun gay people from bedrock institutions of our society and support the use of government force in preventing the formation of gay families. The former is a personal belief and the latter is a tyrannical use of majoritarian power in order to shove gay people to the outer fringes of society. In closing, I will let Harding University administrators do whatever makes them happy once they stop tacitly supporting the systemic discrimination of gay people.
I wish those who have participated in this spirited discussion best of luck in your pharmacy careers. I hope I have shown you at least some of the importance of these issues and how these issues will continue to divide our society as long as religious fundamentalists feel the need to force their traditions upon those who do not subscribe to their particular brand of religion.
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So... I am starting a new thread for Harding University because the other thread is just off topic... I have been accepted to this University and I was hoping if someone could give me pros and cons about their program.. And also some information about Arkansas in general.. Thank you..!! =]
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Are they a christian school?
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Move sociopolitical discussion to the appropriate forum or PM.
Yes, and they are a Church of Christ school.
This has everything to do with pharmacy, my friend. It's about the policies of a pharmacy school. It's about a minority that has some unique health problems (mainly HIV amongst older gay men and younger gay men who are too stupid to have protected sex and limit their sex partners). Some of these health problems could be indirectly linked to the discrimination that this group experiences because if they can't marry then they are more likely to engage in more promiscuous behavior due to not having the social stability of marriage and due to the fact that they have lower self esteem due to society telling them they are disgusting sinners. Therefore, pharmacy has a unique role to play in both educating and embracing the gay population. In addition, the active discrimination that some institutions in this country inflict upon gay people can also indirectly affect these healthcare issues. For if every gay couple that wanted could get married it might reduce the STDs in the population and lower the suicide rate in the population. Just a thought.
First of all, you already broke the rule by discussing religion in this thread. Second of all, I could give you plenty of cons about the school, but those are all in the other thread and you apparently don't care about their stringent rules and discriminatory actions, so that's cool. There is a link to their student handbook in the other thread at least, so you could read all about the school there if you wanted! Hope that helps and good luck with choosing a pharmacy school!
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It is a good school. I like going here and the faculty are very helpful. Our faculty are approachable and have open door policies.
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You are an idiot, unevacha. You just get rejected from a pharmacy school. Having a very low GPA, you can't go any where. Therefore, your failure triggers your emotional responses. We don't care a d@mn about your pointless and worthless arguments since they all came from your pity imagination.
However, you are allowed to be narrow-mind and dump because smart people need some inferior beings to rule and command. Keep nut in your head; I am encouraging you to do so. Good luck having psychological disorder. 👍
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Am I the only one who thinks unevache's arguments are better than his/her opponents? The rest of you are really not saying anything and if you are, unevache beat it. This is coming from someone who was born into a Christian family. The practices of this school just do not seem normal...
How can a school be able to not permit you to smoke or drink off campus? Or not to have sex or not be gay? I'd personally be disgusted if this school earned accreditation.
How can a school be able to not permit you to smoke or drink off campus? Or not to have sex or not be gay? I'd personally be disgusted if this school earned accreditation.
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That's like saying a rule might be wrong or un-American but we shouldn't criticize or question it but instead ignore it completely.
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Open door policy means that you can go talk with them in their office anytime. If caught you would be at major risk of being expelled. We at Harding know the rules. If you break them you know what the consequences are.
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Contrary to what some people think, their mission is not to turn you into a Christian. And you are right, students should stay away from Harding if they can't follow the school's rules. Students are the ones that need pharmacy schools to accept them. Harding have plenty of applicants that want to go to their school and doesn't need to waste their time on students that doesn't want to be there.
Destiny64, I saw the PM that you sent me, and I have typed a response to your question. However, my message failed to send and I lost everything that I had typed as a response. I will retry after I gather my thoughts again. I was so mad because it was such a detailed response!
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I don't see why you should be protesting if you're not even attending Harding University? Are Harding University's rules and regulations making your life miserble? U have the right towards criticism, but there is such a thing as constructive criticism and criticism that doesn't make any sense.
Winterliliy05, thank you for taking the time to reply. It really helps. I mean people having these religion arguments about the University is so unnecessary, diverting away from the main topic does not really help at all..! I'll be waiting for you PM. Thanks once again
I'm not really going to give a detailed response to this because I think the incoherency of the post speaks for itself.
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How does the criticism of this school not make any sense? It makes perfect sense.
The main argument you guys keep posting here is: "If you don't approve of Harding's policies, don't go there." Clearly you missed the point of my post which you quoted and replied to.
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Isn't that jumping the gun a bit? Unless you are enrolled in a pharmacy school, you aren't a pharmacy student. I find the practice of changing your status prematurely confusing on these forums. You can't tell if the people who are saying what it is like in pharmacy school or what you need to be successful in pharmacy school are basing their opinions on experience or on their idea of what pharmacy school might be like. For example, you are defending Harding and I have no idea if you attend the school or have been accepted to the school and are defending it based on no actual experience on what it is like to be a student. That makes a difference on how I evaluate your opinions. It would eliminate a lot of confusion if the pre-pharms were more patient and didn't change their status until they start attending classes.
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I'm all for TOTAL religious freedom. Everyone has beliefs that could be considered weird. You can believe anything you want as long as it doesn't negatively impact me. You can believe that people that don't follow Christ is not going to "Heaven" but using this belief as a weapon crosses the line and any professional that crows about people going to hell for not accepting Jesus Christ should be ashamed. It's ok for people to have this belief and try to change and affect people in their community to live (in their minds) a better life. Everyone, whether they are religious or not should be allowed to try make positive changes in society.
Imagine if your health care provider of any religion thought you were a pagan/infidel and destined go to hell, wouldn't that affect the quality of service that he/she will provide to you?
Imagine if your health care provider of any religion thought you were a pagan/infidel and destined go to hell, wouldn't that affect the quality of service that he/she will provide to you?
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We've already warned everyone once and this is why. This post belongs in SP. This has nothing to do with the school discussed in this thread. Please keep the thread on-topic or it will be moved to the sociopolitical forum.
You guys are so funny. This has everything to do with the school being discussed, you just don't want to admit it for fear of hurting the school's feelings. The school EXPELS people for being gay because it thinks they're going to hell! How does that have nothing to do with the school, just answer me that?
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I was born in AR, have lived here all my life, want to remain living here, and I've been all over the state recreationally and on the job. Granted, I haven't spent "that much" time in the northeast area, but I have been there some. I've also been on the Harding campus due to a HazMat class I had to take up there back in 2002 or so. It seemed like clean, well maintained campus with a lot of cement. It may have just been the area I was in, but it seemed quite hot at that time.
Arkansas is not full of hicks or idiots, yet the eastern side of the state, or Delta region, is pretty depressed economically. In Searcy, which is where Harding is, you'll be on Crowley's Ridge which is a bit better. I believe the college graduate percentage of Arkansans is around 18% right now.
You're not too far from larger cities of Little Rock or Jonesboro, and then you could always go to Memphis, TN if you want a lot bigger. Searcy is also in the area of some state parks, and Arkansas has either the best or second best state parks in the country depending on the survey you read.
The west side of the state is better due to both economic reasons and topography, and I'd rather stay on this side, lol. Arkansas is rural for the most part with a lot of scenary. Other than about four "major" cities in the state the pace is a bit slower than it is in other parts of the country. By and large, it's a religious state with most belonging to the Protestant side of the faith. The winters are fairly mild - all things considered, and the summers have a potential of being very hot and humid. I'm betting it's a bit windier on that side of the state due to the comparative flatness of it.
It's the 25th state which joined the Union in 1836. Arkansas seceded in the Civil War due primarily to peer pressure from all the neighboring states. The northwest part of the state is headquarters to a lot of major companies, and it's a growing metropolis set in a very pretty area. Outdoor recreation and tourism are huge components to AR culture and economy. The apple blossom is the state flower, mocking bird the state bird, and the pine tree is the state tree with no specifics given to species.
The cost of living isn't that high in Arkansas, and for someone making over 60,000 per year which you'll make anywhere as a pharmacist, if not close to double, you'll be doing very, very well. That said, graduate and stick around.
I can't tell you anything about the pharmacy school specifically, but there you have an overview of The Natural State.
Hope this helps.
http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/
