Harvard Medical School Admissions

Started by barsoum.michael
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Seriously, just focus on being yourself. Harvard Medical School is one of the toughest medical schools to get into in the United States. You haven't even started college yet! Quit worrying and be a kid!
 
Give up now. Sort of.

OP, I was the same as you. I made grand plans as an entering freshman, did tons of research on SDN to figure out what I needed to do to set myself up for the opportunities I wanted, and so on. And you know what? For the most part, I actually accomplished what I set out to do. I've built an application that I feel very confident about in applying to the most competitive schools. And you know what? There are people that are more qualified than me, even (especially?) on SDN. More than that, there are people that I'm sure deserve it more than me. And yet I'm applying to Harvard because I would love the chance to interview there and attend if the school and I fit each other well.

That said, I don't expect success in applying to HMS. This is partly because I know a little about how selective they are not in terms of choosing the most traditionally qualified applicants (which again I am not paramount among) but in terms of the nebulous factors that make people unique, and considering these in the context of their applicant pool. Schools like HMS basically have their pick because nearly no one with a realistic chance will turn their nose up at applying to them, and they build their classes with a goal composition in mind in terms of diversity of experience, background, interests, etc. It's not realistic to name an individual school, much less a highly selective one and much more less Harvard, as your final goal.

Set your sights high and make a plan, starting now, for preparing yourself for the opportunities you want. That probably shouldn't mean immediately involving yourself in pursuing every achievement you want along the way, but planning is most definitely worth it.
 
In the end, during your career(s), you're largely (or entirely) judged by your clinical skills and possibly research... If you're a crappy surgeon and get sued over and over again, it doesn't matter if your pathway was Yale undergrad 4.0/41 MCAT --> Harvard med school --> John Hopkins neurosurgery. If the 3.6/33 guy from a low-tier state school is a better surgeon, they'll be judged based on that. (Btw the surgeon thing is just an example). Also, I've actually read of a really crappy surgeon who went along a super high prestige pathway with top 1% stats the whole way. It doesn't matter as much as some people think.

The issue with prestige though, who are you trying to impress exactly? The average person off the street? They wouldn't even know anything about any school ranking besides Harvard... and even then they'll give you a "oh wow" and continue on. This applies to just about anyone (ex. chicks/friends/etc.) besides your mom and residency director who's reviewing your app (assuming you killed step 1).
 
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Goro said:
Have a GPA of 3.9 and an MCAT of 36+, some research and some neat ECs. That ought to do it.
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That's a start, but I wouldn't say "that ought to do it." According to my college's premed advising office, about 5 - 10 of our applicants this year had a LizzyM score of 80 or above. None of them got into Harvard. But we did have about a half-dozen people get into Harvard this year, including at least two people with LizzyM scores of ~72 - 73. (Neither were URMs.) In short, even though Harvard's entering class typically has an average of 3.9/36, it seems that most people who apply there with a 3.9/36 and strong ECs are rejected. This makes Harvard a reach school for virtually everyone. Probably even for most of the top 5% of applicants.

It is easy to explain this away by saying that most of the applicants with 80+ LizzyM scores who ended up being rejected had poor ECs or or were socially inept, but at least for the students at my university this wasn't the case. IMO, several of the 80+ applicants were very outgoing and had much more impressive ECs than the students who ended up getting accepted. The HMS admissions committee disagrees, of course, and that is what can make admissions at top schools appear so random: evaluating ECs and the other qualitative aspects of the application is inherently subjective.

tl;dr: Don't set your sights on a single school, especially one as competitive as Harvard. Only ~220 students a year are offered a seat at Harvard, but there are certainly a lot more than 220 superstar applicants applying every year. Even with a 4.0/40 and excellent ECs, you could still get rejected. I think the same principle applies to all of the top five med schools with varying degrees.
 
Euxox said:
That's a start, but I wouldn't say "that ought to do it." According to my college's premed advising office, about 5 - 10 of our applicants this year had a LizzyM score of 80 or above. None of them got into Harvard. But we did have about a half-dozen people get into Harvard this year, including at least two people with LizzyM scores of ~72 - 73. (Neither were URMs.) In short, even though Harvard's entering class typically has an average of 3.9/36, it seems that most people who apply there with a 3.9/36 and strong ECs are rejected. This makes Harvard a reach school for virtually everyone. Probably even for most of the top 5% of applicants.

It is easy to explain this away by saying that most of the applicants with 80+ LizzyM scores who ended up being rejected had poor ECs or or were socially inept, but at least for the students at my university this wasn't the case. IMO, several of the 80+ applicants were very outgoing and had much more impressive ECs than the students who ended up getting accepted. The HMS admissions committee disagrees, of course, and that is what can make admissions at top schools appear so random: evaluating ECs and the other qualitative aspects of the application is inherently subjective.

tl;dr: Don't set your sights on a single school, especially one as competitive as Harvard. Only ~220 students a year are offered a seat at Harvard, but there are certainly a lot more than 220 superstar applicants applying every year. Even with a 4.0/40 and excellent ECs, you could still get rejected. I think the same principle applies to all of the top five med schools with varying degrees.
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To be honest, this applies to every medical school. Numbers don't make the doctor. Adapt for that, show your worth, and do your part in improving the medical community, whether that's at HMS or Bobby Jones School of Medicine.
 
Boolean said:
To be honest, this applies to every medical school. Numbers don't make the doctor. Adapt for that, show your worth, and do your part in improving the medical community, whether that's at HMS or Bobby Jones School of Medicine.
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Not sure I agree with the bolded statement. Numbers may not make the doctor, but there are some med schools *coughwashucough* that seem to think they do.
 
Euxox said:
Not sure I agree with the bolded statement. Numbers may not make the doctor, but there are some med schools *coughwashucough* that seem to think they do.
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I'll admit there are certainly a few schools that may seem to think they do. WashU certainly has some incredibly high numbers, but numbers aren't their sole criterion (not saying this is what you said, but many pre-meds simply think if they have the GPA and MCAT they're set for any school)
 
XmedBarney said:
My 2 cents.

The biggest pitfall for pre-meds, is ATTRITION. Avoid it at all costs and keep your goals in mind all the time. Your planning should be long term and goal oriented.

Yes, your undergrad institution matters, there is such a concept as "feeder schools". In simple terms, when you deviate from their average matriculant,
your achievements and your story will have to make up the shortfall.

Also, I'm not sure why you have fixated on certain topics for research before you've even gotten there, it's much better to find a research project that can
get you a publication.

Pony up and acquire the MSAR, it's a bit early but it's not too early to know what you're up against.
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What do you mean by attrition?
 
barsoum.michael said:
@Boolean so i shouldnt really stress myself out?
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No, I didn't say that. Getting into HMS will likely be terribly stressful. You should take a step back, aim as high as you can, but don't set yourself up to just try and get into one medical school. What happens if/when you don't get in? Do you give up? Why not Yale? Why not other schools? Why HMS? From what you've written, it seems you just want the name recognition. Take a step back, learn from what is on the forums and what your pre-med advisors tell you, and construct a plan of action. The only person preventing you from getting at seat at HMS is yourself (Copyright of @Goro, can't blame me for a bit of creative license 😛)
 
Euxox said:
That's a start, but I wouldn't say "that ought to do it." According to my college's premed advising office, about 5 - 10 of our applicants this year had a LizzyM score of 80 or above. None of them got into Harvard. But we did have about a half-dozen people get into Harvard this year, including at least two people with LizzyM scores of ~72 - 73. (Neither were URMs.) In short, even though Harvard's entering class typically has an average of 3.9/36, it seems that most people who apply there with a 3.9/36 and strong ECs are rejected. This makes Harvard a reach school for virtually everyone. Probably even for most of the top 5% of applicants.
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Holy sh** where do you go to school?

(Not a real question for you, just expressing astonishment at that student body.)
 
barsoum.michael said:
@Boolean so i shouldnt really stress myself out?
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It's not really stress, over time it's likely that the goal posts keep shifting, we allow more mistakes to happen, distractions increase, questioning what we do ...

The problem with medicine is that it happens on such a long time scale, where we need to show consistent performance; and there are a lot of ways to mess up and fall off the train. So yeah, while the percentage of people getting into med school is around 40%, you should realize that it's more like 4% if you include all the loss due to attrition.
 
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barsoum.michael said:
Hello. I've been reading throughout the forum that it is very hard to get into HMS. Im going to be a freshman in college. I know that getting into ANY medical school is good but I want to try for those top tier schools. For those rare few who got an acceptance letter what should I do? How much does the name of the undergrad you went to matter when it comes to applying to HMS? I plan to do cancer or heart research starting soon. I also plan to do many hours of shadowing. I also plan to study for my MCATs starting now along with the science course I am taking now. I also want to get involved with law making when it comes to medicine. I know a few people who did that and went a program pertaining to laws about medicine. I also plan to keep my GPA above a 3.8 and get a high MCAT score. Can you guys give me a rundown of what to do? Thank you so much for your time.
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Seriously? You're barely old enough to legally smoke...future gunner in the making.
 
Why don't you focus on being happy and healthy, and becoming a doctor? Dude I'm 4 years ahead of you with stats that probably do match up with HMS, but I'm not counting on a top 10 acceptance. Not even close, and I don't even think it would make me happier. I can tell you that setting expectations that high is going to result in a slow and miserable fall from Harvard contention. You can be the best candidate at your school and still not hit that goal. If you work beyond your comfortable ability at this level, you'll have to top that at the next level to keep it up. It's a recipe for burnout (and also for everyone around you hating you). Work hard and see where you end up at the end of it all.
 
Euxox said:
That's a start, but I wouldn't say "that ought to do it." According to my college's premed advising office, about 5 - 10 of our applicants this year had a LizzyM score of 80 or above. None of them got into Harvard. But we did have about a half-dozen people get into Harvard this year, including at least two people with LizzyM scores of ~72 - 73. (Neither were URMs.) In short, even though Harvard's entering class typically has an average of 3.9/36, it seems that most people who apply there with a 3.9/36 and strong ECs are rejected. This makes Harvard a reach school for virtually everyone. Probably even for most of the top 5% of applicants.

It is easy to explain this away by saying that most of the applicants with 80+ LizzyM scores who ended up being rejected had poor ECs or or were socially inept, but at least for the students at my university this wasn't the case. IMO, several of the 80+ applicants were very outgoing and had much more impressive ECs than the students who ended up getting accepted. The HMS admissions committee disagrees, of course, and that is what can make admissions at top schools appear so random: evaluating ECs and the other qualitative aspects of the application is inherently subjective.

tl;dr: Don't set your sights on a single school, especially one as competitive as Harvard. Only ~220 students a year are offered a seat at Harvard, but there are certainly a lot more than 220 superstar applicants applying every year. Even with a 4.0/40 and excellent ECs, you could still get rejected. I think the same principle applies to all of the top five med schools with varying degrees.
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised by the stats that you report. What I found that there is usually a trade-off between amazing ECs and amazing academics. Maintaining a 4.0 GPA requires a lot of work (once I was a junior, I realized it really wasn't worth my time). Once you get to a certain point (around a 3.9), trying to get a higher GPA doesn't have much weight anymore. GPA and MCAT more often than not is just your foot through the door - once you get past the interview stage, they become secondary to your interview performance, rec letters, uniqueness of your ECs, life story, etc. Often, people who have extremely high stats are too focused on academics and neglect the other equally important aspects of their applications. Their ECs may seem just as impressive on paper, yes, but with the extra time spent on academics I bet the things they did were mainly just checking things off instead of dedicating their time in truly making an impact in the community. An Adcom can see through that. Of course, you always have the few who can do both, and hats off to them 🙂. Again, by this point, it's much more important to focus on your ECs and get to know your profs who you can potentially get a rec letter from. Also, a lot of time dedicated to writing your app doesn't hurt either.
 
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YamNMangos said:
I'm not surprised by the stats that you report. What I found that there is usually a trade-off between amazing ECs and amazing academics. Maintaining a 4.0 GPA requires a lot of work (once I was a junior, I realized it really wasn't worth my time). Once you get to a certain point (around a 3.9), trying to get a higher GPA doesn't have much weight anymore. GPA and MCAT more often than not is just your foot through the door - once you get past the interview stage, they become secondary to your interview performance, rec letters, uniqueness of your ECs, life story, etc. Often, people who have extremely high stats are too focused on academics and neglect the other equally important aspects of their applications. Their ECs may seem just as impressive on paper, yes, but with the extra time spent on academics I bet the things they did were mainly just checking things off instead of dedicating their time in truly making an impact in the community. An Adcom can see through that. Of course, you always have the few who can do both, and hats off to them 🙂. Again, by this point, it's much more important to focus on your ECs and get to know your profs who you can potentially get a rec letter from. Also, a lot of time dedicated to writing your app doesn't hurt either.
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You have extremely high stats 😛

But seriously, why criticize people (including you) who worked super hard for a high GPA and a high MCAT score? There's this weird mistrust of people who have done so and it seems a lot of people on this forum like to discredit such individuals by saying that they are "robots" or "just check things off" etc. etc. - frankly, there is no foundation for these statements and it's worrisome we've established a culture where we cut down others for their achievements on a regular basis.
 
yellowfish said:
You have extremely high stats 😛

But seriously, why criticize people (including you) who worked super hard for a high GPA and a high MCAT score? There's this weird mistrust of people who have done so and it seems a lot of people on this forum like to discredit such individuals by saying that they are "robots" or "just check things off" etc. etc. - frankly, there is no foundation for these statements and it's worrisome we've established a culture where we cut down others for their achievements on a regular basis.
Click to expand...

Sorry wasn't trying to discredit anyone, but now reading back I was a bit harsh and it didn't come out right >.<. I was mainly trying to respond to the post and trying to make sense of why so many 80+ LizzyM score students could get rejected while many with lower stats were accepted. I agree though that my assessment was baseless and not fair, and I apologize. My assessment mainly came from seeing others (and myself before junior year) obsessing over a 4.0 GPA and trying to get as high of a MCAT as possible, but forgetting that I should still enjoy college and do what I love through activities and engaging with other students. I don't want people to lose sight of that as they go through the application process - it's a stressful one, and it's not just about the numbers.
 
yellowfish said:
You have extremely high stats 😛

But seriously, why criticize people (including you) who worked super hard for a high GPA and a high MCAT score? There's this weird mistrust of people who have done so and it seems a lot of people on this forum like to discredit such individuals by saying that they are "robots" or "just check things off" etc. etc. - frankly, there is no foundation for these statements and it's worrisome we've established a culture where we cut down others for their achievements on a regular basis.
Click to expand...

It's a societal issue, not just a phenomena that occurs here. People seem to think that democracy and equality means that everyone's opinions are equally valid when it's not.
 
orangeman25 said:
I'd say that's common actually for some of the higher ranked undergrads.
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The Honors College at my state school steals many students every year who were accepted to top tens but came here for the $cholar$hips. I imagine this happens all over the country. These students will peculate to the top no matter where they attend UG. We have an excellent professional school applicant pool this year. Top students can come from anywhere.
 
plumazul said:
The Honors College at my state school steals many students every year who were accepted to top tens but came here for the $cholar$hips. I imagine this happens all over the country. These students will peculate to the top no matter where they attend UG. We have an excellent professional school applicant pool this year. Top students can come from anywhere.
Click to expand...

Yes, we see that and now the AMCAS application allows you to provide quantitative information on how undergrad was paid for. So, when we see someone with a high proportion of college costs covered by merit aid, we know that they may have chosen a lower ranked school with merit aid over a more highly ranked school.
 
LizzyM said:
Yes, we see that and now the AMCAS application allows you to provide quantitative information on how undergrad was paid for. So, when we see someone with a high proportion of college costs covered by merit aid, we know that they may have chosen a lower ranked school with merit aid over a more highly ranked school.
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Hm the school I went to was the second highest ranked one I got into and it was also the one that gave me the most aid by far.
 
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LizzyM said:
Yes, we see that and now the AMCAS application allows you to provide quantitative information on how undergrad was paid for. So, when we see someone with a high proportion of college costs covered by merit aid, we know that they may have chosen a lower ranked school with merit aid over a more highly ranked school.
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Why not just ask for their high school transcripts, SAT scores, and a list of their college acceptances and rejections? =\
 
How about doing publications? I might work on a big research project on Alzheimer's. Is it worth taking the time to publish?
 
barsoum.michael said:
How about doing publications? I might work on a big research project on Alzheimer's. Is it worth taking the time to publish?
Click to expand...

Medical schools don't expect you to have publications, by the time you apply. If you do, then that's great. You can continue to work in a laboratory even after you graduate, you know. The first step is to speak with your professors, or other faculty members, doing basic science research and ask if they are taking any undergraduate volunteers in their respective laboratories. You have to start from the bottom up. Don't go in expecting to publish multiple papers on Alzheimer's. Go in, tell them your interests, and independence and perhaps some publications will follow in the future.
 
Espadaleader said:
It's never too early to start. Focus on getting good grades. You want to at the very least have a 3.5 and no C's in your first semester. You ideally want a 3.8+. 3.8+ potential is a must. Trust me, those students getting into HMS with lower grades have 3.8+ grades I'm their upper levels.

Start figuring out what you like and seeing what interests you for extra curriculars.

Start thinking about research. It's required for academic research oriented medical programs. It doesn't have to be biomedical science, although it's preferred. Getting in a lab early is great.

Make time for yourself. Put on FIFA 2014, play basketball, go lift. Do whatever makes you happy.

Never illegally drink alcohol or weed on campus. Go to a friends house of campus.

Don't do anything that falls under the institutional action umbrella.

Manage your relationships well. Don't let a significant other distract you from your work and don't ignore someone that cares about you.

Start shadowing.

Good luck.
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The bolded is wrong.Your first semester of college is probably the most forgivable time for bad grades on your transcript. I was accepted to a top 10 with a 2.60 gpa in my first semester of college. I agree with everything else though, pretty spot on advice here.
 
bakedbeans18 said:
The bolded is wrong.Your first semester of college is probably the most forgivable time for bad grades on your transcript. I was accepted to a top 10 with a 2.60 gpa in my first semester of college. I agree with everything else though, pretty spot on advice here.
Click to expand...

You're misreading what I am saying. I said "You want to at the very least have a 3.5 and no C's in your first semester." I had neither and I have had an amazing cycle too, but I consider that a good, realistic benchmark for a freshman.

Whatever thou, congrats! We made it!!!
 
Follow your passions early on... don't obsess over your ultimate goal, and especially don't obsess over a single institution. Find your passions in the present and dedicate yourself to them. Develop good study habits, develop responsibility (in essence - be mature). Be the best you can be at whatever it is you're doing. Know your limits and choose your battles - it's not about being in every advanced class, it's about choosing where you want to gain advanced knowledge and excelling at that specific class. Practice perfectibility and self-evaluation - figure out your weakness and work at them. Gain diverse knowledge in various areas - enroll in extracurriculars like music or debate, go beyond your comfort zone and explore areas you would not have explored normally. I was admitted to HMS this year and I did not even consider being premed until late sophomore year of college - it's about forging your own path towards your own passions, venturing beyond your comfort zone, and once you are set on a goal, do everything possible to achieve it.

Before you tunnel vision on being a premed, explore other academic areas (which is how I ultimately decided I wanted to pursue medicine). And if you do decide to be a premed, don't come back to these forums until the application process (or if you're looking for specific posts that help with summer programs or MCAT preparation). SDN is a cesspool of neurosis that has its perks when you're dealing with the intricacies of applications but will only have a negative effect during most of your college career.
 
lalax said:
Follow your passions early on... don't obsess over your ultimate goal, and especially don't obsess over a single institution. Find your passions in the present and dedicate yourself to them. Develop good study habits, develop responsibility (in essence - be mature). Be the best you can be at whatever it is you're doing. Know your limits and choose your battles - it's not about being in every advanced class, it's about choosing where you want to gain advanced knowledge and excelling at that specific class. Practice perfectibility and self-evaluation - figure out your weakness and work at them. Gain diverse knowledge in various areas - enroll in extracurriculars like music or debate, go beyond your comfort zone and explore areas you would not have explored normally. I was admitted to HMS this year and I did not even consider being premed until late sophomore year of college - it's about forging your own path towards your own passions, venturing beyond your comfort zone, and once you are set on a goal, do everything possible to achieve it.

Before you tunnel vision on being a premed, explore other academic areas (which is how I ultimately decided I wanted to pursue medicine). And if you do decide to be a premed, don't come back to these forums until the application process (or if you're looking for specific posts that help with summer programs or MCAT preparation). SDN is a cesspool of neurosis that has its perks when you're dealing with the intricacies of applications but will only have a negative effect during most of your college career.
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What were your stats @lalax
 
If you can effectively operate Cerebro, you'll have no problem getting in.
XMenCerebro.jpg
 
Espadaleader said:
You're misreading what I am saying. I said "You want to at the very least have a 3.5 and no C's in your first semester." I had neither and I have had an amazing cycle too, but I consider that a good, realistic benchmark for a freshman.

Whatever thou, congrats! We made it!!!
Click to expand...

I think you misread what I said.
You said "no C's in the first semester" - I'm saying, you can get away with having a C in your first semester.
 
Espadaleader said:
Getting into Harvard is more or less a crapshoot but having a solid enough application to warrant interviews at top 20 schools is not. Saying that downplays the amount of work you have to put in to get accepted. Undergrad does matter. For. Real. I know people that went to Podunk U but did Amgen/summer research at UMich/UChi/Harvard etc. So when you see the kid from Fresno State at Harvard they probably did summer research at UCLA, did SMDEP, did some study abroad program etc. Also as I said before grades matter. When looking at outliers you have to understand cGPA is misleading. Top schools don't accept students without 3.8+ level ability. A 3.4 student almost certainly looks like this (3.0, 3.4, 3.7, 3.9) AND the student has to have tough circumstances (working, poverty etc.). Even though the cGPA is low, this student still has that ability. Also, any student without a cGPA 3.8+ and 35+ MCAT almost certainly has a once in a cycle story and history. The biggest mistake anyone can make is thinking that any admitted student to a top 10 medical school doesn't deserve it.
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Sometimes daddy is chair of the department or really rich and pays to have his kid admitted. George Bush got his MBA from Harvard. A guy was admitted to my state school with a 2.7 GPA and 19 MCAT. Both of his parents are alums.
 
Before I went to college I planned on 4.0GPA 45MCAT while learning rocket surgery in my free time.

I drank beer instead. It was fantastic.

Go to college. Work hard. Have fun. Oh, and learn something while you're there. Shoot for the top but don't be unrealistic. You'll love just about any US MD school, and if you worked hard enough, and with a bit of luck (the trail is brutal that way)--you'll end up where you want to be. There is even the possibility that you landed and interview at HMS and don't wish to attend. There is a lot more to the medical school than the name. You learn that on the interview trail, and even more so once you're there.
 
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Reckoner said:
But that doesn't mean you want them. Which is what he said.
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Of course nobody wants them, but at the same time it seemed as if a false-dilemma was being created, so I wanted to dispell that.

plumazul said:
Actually, one school this cycle did ask for my SAT score and high school GPA. :shrug:
Click to expand...

I was asked this too. I said "I hardly even remember graduating high school, let alone my grades." Result? Decision pending lol
 
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askamsky51 said:
Before I went to college I planned on 4.0GPA 45MCAT while learning rocket surgery in my free time.

I drank beer instead. It was fantastic.

Go to college. Work hard. Have fun. Oh, and learn something while you're there. Shoot for the top but don't be unrealistic. You'll love just about any US MD school, and if you worked hard enough, and with a bit of luck (the trail is brutal that way)--you'll end up where you want to be. There is even the possibility that you landed and interview at HMS and don't wish to attend. There is a lot more to the medical school than the name. You learn that on the interview trail, and even more so once you're there.
Click to expand...

Yep, and there's a lot more to life than medical school.

Blind ambition that leads to academic success does not promise happiness. Remember that, everyone.
 
6600+ people applied to HMS. Only 194 were admitted. 2.93% acceptance. They dropped the number of acceptances they gave out by 10% because two students overenrolled.
 
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