Has anyone ever regretted getting a PhD in clinical psych?

[Ollie123]

Very good friend of mine, who is in another psych (non-clinical) PhD at my school did more of the data science/quant background and now works for one of the big retail pharmacy chains as one of their research directors. Makes more money that most clinical psychologists that I know with very good benefits. Definitely a good option for some, but can still do it with a clinical psych degree if your stats background is good enough.

Would definitely take some effort on my part to get back there. Never went past intro calculus and never took linear algebra, my big limitations for deep stats work. Confident I have the aptitude for it if I wanted to pursue, but just never had a reason to do so. I certainly "could" do it, but less certain whether I "should" especially with a family. Not sure the pay difference is likely to be very significant on my current trajectory unless I became a wall street quant (which sounds soul-crushing to me) or something along those lines. Money is very far from the main motivator for a change anyways.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[R. Matey]

Would definitely take some effort on my part to get back there. Never went past intro calculus and never took linear algebra, my big limitations for deep stats work. Confident I have the aptitude for it if I wanted to pursue, but just never had a reason to do so. I certainly "could" do it, but less certain whether I "should" especially with a family. Not sure the pay difference is likely to be very significant on my current trajectory unless I became a wall street quant (which sounds soul-crushing to me) or something along those lines. Money is very far from the main motivator for a change anyways.

Also worth mentioning that a majority of your time would be spent cleaning and prepping data, at least in the beginning. I do some volunteering with a group of master's and Ph.D. level data scientists and the complaint is usually most of their job is data wrangling.

 

[cara susanna]

Not sure I'd frame it as regret, but I do sometimes wish I had gone down a different path. I have a lot of interests and could have gone any number of directions. Had a brief stint as a CS major, got the highest grade in the course and promptly dropped it. Dabbled with becoming an English major, but I greatly prefer technical writing. Switched to business and was pursing accounting/finance/MIS. Turned down an internship on wall street to work in a psychology lab summer of my junior year. Considered medicine, but seemed a waste given I had limited interest in clinical practice. Almost went into organizational behavior (basically IO on the business school side) instead.

If I could do it again, I'd probably have pursued something in the CS/Engineering/Data Science/Statistics realm, but still working in healthcare and - ideally - behavioral health. Playing with data is the fun part of the job for me and by far the most rewarding. As my career progresses, I have less and less time to dedicate to it and my skills (and knowledge base) are growing rusty. I feel like the data folks are the only ones who actually get to do what they like to do and were trained to do in science these days. PI activities are more administrative - I probably spend 10 hours on IRB paperwork, ordering supplies, making sure the people who process my supply orders actually did process my supply orders, etc. for every 1 hour I spend on "science." Maybe slightly higher salary, but not as much as you'd think within the healthcare sphere. Better job security though, which is always nice.

I sporadically toy with the idea of saying screw it, doing a 1-year data science masters and reinventing myself. Tough to walk away at this point though and no guarantees I wouldn't end up right back in academia.

My brother's in healthcare software (he has a computer science degree) and he makes a ridiculous amount of money with less than half of the schooling that I have. He worked for a major EMR company and now does consulting for healthcare systems.

 

[WisNeuro]

Also worth mentioning that a majority of your time would be spent cleaning and prepping data, at least in the beginning. I do some volunteering with a group of master's and Ph.D. level data scientists and the complaint is usually most of their job is data wrangling.

Depends on the department he got the director role pretty quickly, so the cleaning/prepping stuff, he just has to look at the workflow to make sure they did it correctly. His main work is the data analysis itself, choosing how to present it based on the audience, and manuscripts.

 

[R. Matey]

Depends on the department he got the director role pretty quickly, so the cleaning/prepping stuff, he just has to look at the workflow to make sure they did it correctly. His main work is the data analysis itself, choosing how to present it based on the audience, and manuscripts.

Ah, that does sound like a sweet gig.

 

[Ollie123]

Data wrangling is always going to be more work than the actual analysis when working with "real" datasets. That's true even for the senior data scientists I know largely vetting others work. Only way to avoid that is doing sloppy junk science where you either don't understand your own data or don't care.

I'd happily tidyverse/dplyr and run diagnostics all day long if I get to give up IRB paperwork and trying to convince another university IT department to let my coordinator connect to their network to print things so she doesn't have to share her small cubicle with a copier twice the size of her desk. Which was basically my entire Tuesday/Wednesday of this week.

 

[Qwerk]

I'm sure some therapists resent being perceived as the easier alternative to a Ph.D., but blowing past that, you do lose a lot opportunity in not becoming a psychologist. Unless you're a successful private practitioner, you can expect assembly line therapy for some hospital org or private practitioner, likely making less than a teacher.

I will second this, actually. I would not endorse getting an M.S.W. or other terminal master’s if the goal is direct practice but not private practice (I’m assuming OP has no interest in being an administrator). The money and working conditions can be terrible—not always at the same time, but invariably at least one of those. The salaries cap out quickly and burnout is high. I love what I do now, but if not for private practice, I would have changed careers.

 

[Sanman]

Data wrangling is always going to be more work than the actual analysis when working with "real" datasets. That's true even for the senior data scientists I know largely vetting others work. Only way to avoid that is doing sloppy junk science where you either don't understand your own data or don't care.

I'd happily tidyverse/dplyr and run diagnostics all day long if I get to give up IRB paperwork and trying to convince another university IT department to let my coordinator connect to their network to print things so she doesn't have to share her small cubicle with a copier twice the size of her desk. Which was basically my entire Tuesday/Wednesday of this week.

That sounds like my Friday this week. Spent the afternoon dealing with IT, who called me in to fix a problem they do not have fix for.

 

[Sanman]

I will second this, actually. I would not endorse getting an M.S.W. or other terminal master’s if the goal is direct practice but not private practice (I’m assuming OP has no interest in being an administrator). The money and working conditions can be terrible—not always at the same time, but invariably at least one of those. The salaries cap out quickly and burnout is high. I love what I do now, but if not for private practice, I would have changed careers.

That is true of most any therapy job regardless of degree. Outside the VA system your options are pretty limited as a psychologist/therapist if not in PP also. There are are some more w-2 jobs in other areas of practice and academia/ research, but most are not that great or difficult to land.

 

[wtfook]

Backing this up. I've known people who have quit halfway through academic Ph.Ds only to end up in a position where they are the only non-Ph.D. in the room and regretting their life choices. It's one thing to know what you want and make steps towards that end. It's another altogether to just jump ship because you can't stomach what you're doing. Regardless of whether you use the thing or not, finishing what you start, within reason, is usually the easier sales pitch.


I'm sure some therapists resent being perceived as the easier alternative to a Ph.D., but blowing past that, you do lose a lot opportunity in not becoming a psychologist. Unless you're a successful private practitioner, you can expect assembly line therapy for some hospital org or private practitioner, likely making less than a teacher.

I didn't actually mean it as an easier alternative. It's a more to the point alternative. As someone who has a master's in counseling and deeply respect my friends who are in private practice as LCSW's, we've talked about why some of them decided to go back for a doctorate and others didn't. The idea that it's hard maybe does come up but also stuff like, "look I don't enjoy research" or "my goal isn't to specialize in assessments" and "I already have opportunities to teach, consult, and do other things with my master's." I think the point I'm making is that there's a lot of other things involved with getting a doctorate in psychology beyond the prestige that even some of my colleagues who end up going that route find they really don't enjoy and can't wait to get away from and there are actual degrees where you don't need to do those things to the intensity that is required for a doctorate and you can just get trained in the things you do enjoy doing.

 

[wtfook]

Ken Jeong finished his internal medicine residency and practiced for years as a physician. He didn't actually stop practicing until he got his role in Knocked Up. So it's fair to say he got a lot of positive feedback about the chances of his success in another career before bailing.

Also, I did realize definitively in Year 3 of a research PhD that I wanted to be in medicine. I finished the PhD. Part of this was because medicine doesn't like anyone perceived as a quitter but also I realized no part of my journey was going to be easier with half a doctorate. It is way easier to explain why you would finish an advanced degree and then make a change in a way that is attractive to future employers/supervisors/hiring committees than to explain why you jumped ship halfway through in a way that doesn't leave them wondering if they're getting the real story.

Not going to touch the real doctor debate but I will say for me it is an immediate signal that someone either a) is a bit fringe-y or b) selling something if they are calling themselves doctor based on a non-clinical degree of any kind. Not as bad as JDs calling themselves doctor (have encountered this a couple times), they're just selling something shady.

Nobody who isn't pretty well versed in healthcare seems to understand the difference between psychologists and psychiatrists so I can either choose to get super offended when people distinguish between me and their "physician" or we can just agree that there should be mutual respect for overlapping but ultimately complementary capabilities.

I think the thing you brought up is one of the more compelling reasons for why it would be practical to finish. I like it more than, "well I got this far. might as well keep going."

 

[R. Matey]

I didn't actually mean it as an easier alternative. It's a more to the point alternative. As someone who has a master's in counseling and deeply respect my friends who are in private practice as LCSW's, we've talked about why some of them decided to go back for a doctorate and others didn't. The idea that it's hard maybe does come up but also stuff like, "look I don't enjoy research" or "my goal isn't to specialize in assessments" and "I already have opportunities to teach, consult, and do other things with my master's." I think the point I'm making is that there's a lot of other things involved with getting a doctorate in psychology beyond the prestige that even some of my colleagues who end up going that route find they really don't enjoy and can't wait to get away from and there are actual degrees where you don't need to do those things to the intensity that is required for a doctorate and you can just get trained in the things you do enjoy doing.

Well, there might be more than one path up the mountain, yes, but bear in mind that a master's degree alone doesn't necessarily make you competent to practice psychotherapy independently. Hopefully you're getting some didactics during your post-master's licensing hours that includes supervised training in evidenced based practices. The master's level folks that I've seen who are stellar usually have a few years of formal or semi-formal postmaster's training in a recognized practice area and become essentially indistinguishable from psychologists in that one area of clinical practice. The ones who are terrible or mediocre build out their licensing hours in some CMHC or obtain training in some psuedoscientific garbage.

Speaking as someone who is both an LPC and licensed psychologist, at least for the time being, I have a hard time seeing how master's level training alone prepares you for more than what I just described (Edit: less true for SW than LPC/LMFT because of the caseworker positions one can take).

 

[foreverbull]

Op, your question gets asked from time to time and it’s hard to answer. I wouldn’t say “yes,” because I really enjoyed my grad school experience overall, but I definitely think I wish I’d known more about the current job market and how fulltime clinical jobs would look earlier in my program to perhaps specialize in a non-clinical pursuit.

What I find myself reflecting on now is that clinical jobs demand 100% focus for each client hour during your work day, whereas other types of office jobs give you more flexibility in terms of being able to half-heartedly work at lower productivity if you feel ill or tired without jeopardizing your entire job or relationship with clients (I know someone in tech who phones it in at $200k+ per year and I’m amazed that this person isn’t required to be more accountable when they haven’t produced anything tangible in awhile). I can’t phone in a counseling session, for obvious reasons. Thus, I find regular clinical work far more draining than crunching numbers or writing reports in a room alone given the level of interpersonal focus constantly required, and I didn’t feel this way until internship/postdoc years, so right when I finished my degree.

Some of us have considered switching careers or at least branching out. I’m some years out from licensure and still haven’t found the best fit for my skill set and traits quite yet, but some work I had the opportunity to do this year was fulfilling and compensated decently well, in addition to my carrying a small client caseload. Since it was temporary, I’m back to the drawing board.

So some early career psychologists like me are still trying to figure things out. The good part with a doctorate in psychology (counseling or clinical) I think, is that working part-time in private practice (with a buildup over the past few years—not all at once) has afforded opportunities to figure things out while still staying afloat.

Will it be worth it to finish? I would say yes if you don’t have another route you feel extremely passionate about and want to pursue now because you know I’m your heart it’s a better fit. If you can see yourself doing anything that the grad program is teaching in terms of skill sets (even if not clinical, like teaching, research, assessment), then focus on those aspects.

 

[FredBerfil]

I don't regret becoming a shrink really, but honestly I would have had more fun with an economics degree. So much interesting stuff going on in the world of money and finance these days, particularly as it intersects with technology.

 

[AbnormalPsych]

I don't regret becoming a shrink really, but honestly I would have had more fun with an economics degree. So much interesting stuff going on in the world of money and finance these days, particularly as it intersects with technology.

I have the same thoughts on the regular.

 

[Dazen]

I have the same thoughts on the regular.

Somehow even after two years at a hedge fun, I just can’t relate. Never found it interesting, although I recognize there’s a ton of complexity there.

 

[AnonymousClinicalPsych]

Somehow even after two years at a hedge fun, I just can’t relate. Never found it interesting, although I recognize there’s a ton of complexity there.

What made you give up your psychologist career and pursue finance instead?

 

[Dazen]

What made you give up your psychologist career and pursue finance instead?

It went the other way. I worked in finance after college (studied engineering) then came around to psych more recently. I’m currently a first year clinical phd student

 

[psychpro]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum and would like to get people's opinions on questions I don't feel comfortable asking people I know.
I'm currently half way through a partially-funded PhD program in clinical psych, and starting to feel regretful for getting this degree. I'm not saying that I want to switch career now, that would be a reckless decision given how much I've already invested at this point. I just want to see if anyone feels the same way or differently.

The main reason for my regret is that I don't enjoy doing therapy (my program is much more clinical than researchy, even though it's a PhD program) as much as I thought. Maybe that's my own fault for not figuring this out beforehand, but I feel it's really hard to know what doing therapy is really about and feels like until you actually get trained and do it. In this country at least you really don't have much opportunity to get exposed to that unless you are in a doctoral program or a license track master's program. I'm also just tired of the endless work and the amount of effort that you have to devote into getting this degree. I did prepare myself for it before going into it, but it just became so much harder after you realize that you don't actually like it AND feel disappointed by your program's quality (this is a very subjective opinion of mine). I feel like I've exhausted my will power muscle at this point. Also, by the time I can start make actual money (i.e.after completing internship, post-doc, licensure) I'll be in my early thirties, with peers who have already worked at least 7 or 8 years, probably advanced to a mid-level position in their field, and make more money than I do. In fact, I don't even know how much does an entry-level psychologist make. No one talks about that in school and I haven't been able to find a way to ask that question in a way that's not awkward or rude. Any one knows? I know it depends on a lot of different factors and the setting, but just generally speaking, how much would you be able to take home if you are in private practice or a hospital in NYC? I'm guessing around $100K?? I feel that just doesn't justify the effort required for this degree. Call me shallow or superficial, but I think money is an important thing in the end. If you just need to have a job to make a living, why not choose one that requires less education and effort but may give you the same payout. The good thing is that I don't have any debt, just because I'm lucky enough to have parents who are willing to pay for the tuition and expenses. But even with that, I question whether this is all worth it.

Please share your thoughts. Thank you.

I know this is from a while back, but figured i'd respond since I can relate to where you are coming from. A degree to practice psychology professionally takes a lot out of you. I am on the other side, and completed my degree in 2020 but I had many moments were I felt I had made a huge mistake by pursuing my PhD in Counseling psychology. I never expected it to be easy, and I knew there was a huge time commitment, but there was really no way for me to understand the extent of the financial, emotional and social sacrifices involved in getting this degree. Not to mention the hours spent on research, trainings, presentations, and teaching, in addition to therapy. It gets really overwhelming, and sometimes it is difficult to determine whether you feel unhappy because of the workload, or you truly hate what you are doing. I will say that for me, I can genuinely say that I enjoy doing therapy (but quickly recognized not full-time), and evaluations (every now and then I feel bogged down by the writing involved in assessments). I also know that since I work well with diagnosis in the trauma area, and BPD I need to be careful when building my caseload, and limit the number of clients with that presenting problem I work with to minimize the risk of burnout. With that being said, I am still in the process of learning a lot as an ECP, and designing a workload that I find suitable but I will say this, there is money to be made in this field. Something that we are not exposed to in grad school, but there is definitely money to be made. I am still learning just how much can be made so unfortunately I can't give you an exact figure. If you would like to learn more feel free to message me privately, as I am around the NYC area too , so information I have is probably reflective of what you will experience as you wrap up your degree.

Long story short, some of what may be bogging you down might be burn out, and it is very difficult to tell while you are still going through it. Also money can be made, and I am happy to share my experience if you would like to message me privately.

 

[JeyRo]

It went the other way. I worked in finance after college (studied engineering) then came around to psych more recently. I’m currently a first year clinical phd student

As an aside, that's me "FerdBerfil" just posting under my Google sign-in. Anyways - that's very interesting. Why exactly did you leave finance? Did you mention something about boredom?

I also wonder - even though I'm middle-aged at this point (and probably thoroughly ruined for most other work by being in federal service for going on 15 years now), what could I do to get my "itch scratched" to work in finance somehow? I've toyed with maybe going back to school someday and getting trained in econ. I DK... just spitballing....

 

[Dazen]

As an aside, that's me "FerdBerfil" just posting under my Google sign-in. Anyways - that's very interesting. Why exactly did you leave finance? Did you mention something about boredom?

I also wonder - even though I'm middle-aged at this point (and probably thoroughly ruined for most other work by being in federal service for going on 15 years now), what could I do to get my "itch scratched" to work in finance somehow? I've toyed with maybe going back to school someday and getting trained in econ. I DK... just spitballing....

Short answer was lack of inherent interest in the content and not wanting to live in NYC/work 70+ hour weeks in that atmosphere. I spent my first year doing macroeconomic research, and was fortunate to be in a year-long training program that took up ~40% of my time so I learned a ton, and then my second year running recruiting and talent strategy for one of the company's main departments.

Finance is hard to break into especially if you want to be on the buy side. My company was one of the few you could go directly to out of school, without working your way up through the sell side first. It'll be a huge transition from federal service. I spent six months interning at one of the three letter agencies and the pace of life is so incredibly different. I probably had more expected of me in one day working in finance than an entire week in my federal job. There's a huge focus on fast talking and a constant expectation to aggressively prove yourself against everyone else you work with. At the top places, the academic and intellectual pedigree is absurdly high and I felt my processing speed and conceptual thinking abilities more challenged than most days at my top tier undergrad and grad program so far. Which isn't to say don't do it, just that it might be a hard thing to transition into partway through your career. Don't want to fully dox myself and former company, but happy to answer general questions here or more specific ones in PM.

 

[lily_pad]

I guess I'd be fine with a $100K starting salary and the potential to earn up to $150k-200k as the years go by, given that I live in NYC where everything is more expansive than the rest of the country. I have friends with a masters degree in another field who earn roughly $100k after 2 years of experience and those with a PhD in another field have a starting salary of $140K. I guess what I'm asking is not ridiculous?

Late to this feed but would love to hear what types of work your masters degree friends are doing making $100k! Do you mean masters levels mental health clinicians?

 

[Sanman]

Late to this feed but would love to hear what types of work your masters degree friends are doing making $100k! Do you mean masters levels mental health clinicians?

I believe the OP referenced friends in a different field. That said, $100k is not a lot of money and is not that hard to earn even as a mental health clinician. It also won't be as straight forward as other fields.

 

[lily_pad]

I believe the OP referenced friends in a different field. That said, $100k is not a lot of money and is not that hard to earn even as a mental health clinician. It also won't be as straight forward as other fields.

Got it. Asking because I'm in my first year as an MSW and would personally be veryyyy psyched to be making $100k after 2 years of experience because from what I hear you can expect to be making very little money those first two years before licensure.

 

[Sanman]

Got it. Asking because I'm in my first year as an MSW and would personally be veryyyy psyched to be making $100k after 2 years of experience because from what I hear you can expect to be making very little money those first two years before licensure.

Before being fully licensed, you won't be making anything close to that kind of money. It is rare to find a w-2 job that will offer you that salary either. As licensed LCSW therapist in your own private practice, it is certainly doable. However, that means running your own business, no pay check, sometimes no money for weeks/months.

Meanwhile, that is entry level money for many in Tech and finance with a bachelors degree. Like I said, not as straight forward.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

It might've been mentioned in this thread already, but I think it's also fair when comparing salaries across fields to discuss hours worked. Lots of folks in tech, finance, etc., work well in excess of 40 hours/week in salaried W-2 positions. I don't know as many psychologist positions, outside perhaps of some AMCs, where that's as consistently expected.

All that to say, someone doing 100% clinical work in private practice could make a fair amount of money working 60 or 70 hours a week, assuming they can keep their schedule full. But like Sanman mentioned, the path isn't quite as straightforward as some other professions.

 

[psych.meout]

It might've been mentioned in this thread already, but I think it's also fair when comparing salaries across fields to discuss hours worked. Lots of folks in tech, finance, etc., work well in excess of 40 hours/week in salaried W-2 positions. I don't know as many psychologist positions, outside perhaps of some AMCs, where that's as consistently expected.

All that to say, someone doing 100% clinical work in private practice could make a fair amount of money working 60 or 70 hours a week, assuming they can keep their schedule full. But like Sanman mentioned, the path isn't quite as straightforward as some other professions.

And that's their regular schedule. It can get so much worse when it comes to meeting deadlines, e.g., "crunch" in software development.

Crunch (video games) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[singasongofjoy]

Haha you are not a real doctor if you don't have an MD. Not my opinion. Most people in this country tend to think that.

I once had an appt with a new doc (MD resident) who looked at my chart, looked up, smiled and said "nice to meet you, DR singasong." I don't put Dr or any other whatevers on any non-work forms but there's a question on the chart about highest level of education, occupation so guess he connected the dots. Emphasized the "Dr" in a nice (nonsarcastic) way. It took me a few seconds to even process because it was so unexpected but dude that attention to detail totally made my day- and I'd bet money that's the only time I'll ever say that about an OB/GYN appt!

 

[Qwerk]

It might've been mentioned in this thread already, but I think it's also fair when comparing salaries across fields to discuss hours worked. Lots of folks in tech, finance, etc., work well in excess of 40 hours/week in salaried W-2 positions. I don't know as many psychologist positions, outside perhaps of some AMCs, where that's as consistently expected.

All that to say, someone doing 100% clinical work in private practice could make a fair amount of money working 60 or 70 hours a week, assuming they can keep their schedule full. But like Sanman mentioned, the path isn't quite as straightforward as some other professions.

This is something I always tell people entering private practice: count all the hours you work—including the admin/accounting/vacuuming because you stupidly chose a shag rug for your office/documentation—and then decide if it’s worth it. I see a lot of burnt-out private practitioners who have let their work creep further and further into their personal lives and I have to wonder whether the money is worth it if they don’t have any free time to spend it.

This is one of the major reasons I moved to a four-day work week last year. I could theoretically make more in a five-day week, but if I asked myself what I’d like to buy with the extra money, my honest answer would be “another weekend day.” PP is full of choices like this. It’s so tempting to take just ooooone more client or schedule people at inconvenient times because you’re afraid you’ll lose them if you don’t, and before you know it, you’re working biglaw/tech hours.

 

[Sanman]

This is something I always tell people entering private practice: count all the hours you work—including the admin/accounting/vacuuming because you stupidly chose a shag rug for your office/documentation—and then decide if it’s worth it. I see a lot of burnt-out private practitioners who have let their work creep further and further into their personal lives and I have to wonder whether the money is worth it if they don’t have any free time to spend it.

This is one of the major reasons I moved to a four-day work week last year. I could theoretically make more in a five-day week, but if I asked myself what I’d like to buy with the extra money, my honest answer would be “another weekend day.” PP is full of choices like this. It’s so tempting to take just ooooone more client or schedule people at inconvenient times because you’re afraid you’ll lose them if you don’t, and before you know it, you’re working biglaw/tech hours.

I will say that the one big advantage of our field is the flexibility. You can work as many or as few hours as you like and we have the spectrum on here. I used to work 60-80 hrs/wk. Now 35-40. As I get older and become more financially comfortable, the flexibility we have is much more important than a specific dollar figure.

 

[foreverbull]

This is something I always tell people entering private practice: count all the hours you work—including the admin/accounting/vacuuming because you stupidly chose a shag rug for your office/documentation—and then decide if it’s worth it. I see a lot of burnt-out private practitioners who have let their work creep further and further into their personal lives and I have to wonder whether the money is worth it if they don’t have any free time to spend it.

This is one of the major reasons I moved to a four-day work week last year. I could theoretically make more in a five-day week, but if I asked myself what I’d like to buy with the extra money, my honest answer would be “another weekend day.” PP is full of choices like this. It’s so tempting to take just ooooone more client or schedule people at inconvenient times because you’re afraid you’ll lose them if you don’t, and before you know it, you’re working biglaw/tech hours.

Yes, that happens at times for sure. Colleagues I’ve talked to consider 20 clients a week in PP full time because of the admin and other responsibilities—obviously notes, preparing for each client, marketing, updating website, looking for referrals for some folks, consults, and other things aren’t included in that 20. Given the focus and attention needed plus uncounted admin hours, I sometimes wonder whether folks seeing 30+ clients in PP weekly are able to do so without phoning it in sometimes, especially if you have no other paid job duties to give yourself a mental break or variety. Perhaps some folks thrive on doing this, and it’s just a matter of enjoyment and energy levels? I’m still trying to understand how folks manage a schedule like that in PP.

 

[Sanman]

Yes, that happens at times for sure. Colleagues I’ve talked to consider 20 clients a week in PP full time because of the admin and other responsibilities—obviously notes, preparing for each client, marketing, updating website, looking for referrals for some folks, consults, and other things aren’t included in that 20. Given the focus and attention needed plus uncounted admin hours, I sometimes wonder whether folks seeing 30+ clients in PP weekly are able to do so without phoning it in sometimes, especially if you have no other paid job duties to give yourself a mental break or variety. Perhaps some folks thrive on doing this, and it’s just a matter of enjoyment and energy levels? I’m still trying to understand how folks manage a schedule like that in PP.

They schedule like that by doing less of the other stuff and having a defined product. It's a lot like eating out. You can make someone a gourmet meal or a McDs burger. I used to do a lot high volume therapy and I was not reinventing the wheel for insurance cases. Cash is a different level of service. As for phoning it in, we all do that sometimes. Life is not a constant.

 

[WisNeuro]

They schedule like that by doing less of the other stuff and having a defined product. It's a lot like eating out. You can make some a gourmet meal or a McDs burger. I used to do a lot high volume therapy and I was not reinventing the wheel for insurance cases. Cash is a different level of service. As for phoning it in, we all do that sometimes. Life is not a constant.

This is part of the benefit of assessment work, greatly reduces the admin time. As well as the IME work, very little admin work there besides telling someone when I have availability and sending an invoice when I'm done.