Hate to admit it....

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FSU2013

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Hate to admit it, but the more senior people on this forum were right: After finishing half of my interviews, I now understand that general gestalt, fit and location are more important than being at a so-called "top" program (if there is such a thing).

I, like many others, scowered the Internet looking for the "elite" programs and have seen at least 1 "top" program I loved and another that I was very luke-warm on. I've seen two less prestigious programs, I loved one and disliked the other.

I doubt this will influence anyone in the future (I know it wouldn't have changed my mind), but forget about "prestige" when you apply and apply places you and your significant other will be happy and enjoy the people.
 

docB

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The "fit" just gets more important too. Imagine those dark days in the winter of second year when everyone gets tired and depressed. Will you feel better in a comfortable environment with classmates who have your back or in a hostile situation with a bigger name to be on the cert in a year and a half?

I don't think a quarter of my colleagues could name where I trained. It just doesn't come up in private practice. Academics is a little different but still.
 

dally1025

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Before I started interviewing I had a list of things I wanted and deal-breakers but as I've seen more programs the fit is way more important. So what if you spend a month or two extra off service rotations during intern year or I have to pay $50/month to park. That extra 2 months in the ED won't be much fun if it's with people I don't click with. Many of those deal breakers don't really seem to matter as much as I thought it would...
 

migm

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Just wanted to +1 what was said above. After getting invites from some of the best programs in the country, my heart is set on what is probably an average program because of the fit and feel. My must/want analysis doesn't quantify the fact that I and my SO will be happy at this training throughout my training
 

EM2013woot

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Totally agree. Been on enough of these now to get a sense of this during the pre-interview dinners (provided the res turnout is decent). The worst is if you realize that night that you don't click with the residents/they're not your kinda peeps...makes for a looooong, painful interview day.
 

teacherman

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I totally agree that location and fit are the most important. So far I've liked most of the programs that I've been to. I guess my rank list will be 50 % gut feeling and 50 % what my wife says. The wife always gets half.
 

DB2013EM

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Hate to admit it, but the more senior people on this forum were right: After finishing half of my interviews, I now understand that general gestalt, fit and location are more important than being at a so-called "top" program (if there is such a thing).

I, like many others, scowered the Internet looking for the "elite" programs and have seen at least 1 "top" program I loved and another that I was very luke-warm on. I've seen two less prestigious programs, I loved one and disliked the other.

I doubt this will influence anyone in the future (I know it wouldn't have changed my mind), but forget about "prestige" when you apply and apply places you and your significant other will be happy and enjoy the people.

I completely agree with you. That's why when I evaluate places, I think in my head "which is gonna make me the best doctor?"
 

Apollyon

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Hate to admit it, but the more senior people on this forum were right:

Were you serious about "hating to admit it"? I, personally, solely, on my own, think that that statement could truly be said by some of your compatriots. It's like they're choking on their own words to admit that, maybe, some of us, who have gone through it, know about what we are talking.
 

TooMuchResearch

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Were you serious about "hating to admit it"? I, personally, solely, on my own, think that that statement could truly be said by some of your compatriots. It's like they're choking on their own words to admit that, maybe, some of us, who have gone through it, know about what we are talking.

I'd love to admit it. You, the EM veterans of SDN, including the <1 year out of residency folks who have absorbed some abuse in recent threads, seem to know much, much more than the ropes. That's why I lurk and read nearly every EM forum thread.
 

FSU2013

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Were you serious about "hating to admit it"?

No....I mean, I never like being wrong, but it was more of an "well awwww shucks, I guess you can say I told you so" type of thing.
 

DreamingTheLive

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Fit >>>>>>>>>>>> Prestige. Every time. Have no trouble admitting it either because I've felt it would be this way the whole time, and my interview experiences so far have only confirmed this. Prestige/Name mostly only matters to med students anyways....That being said, I've met enough "douchey" name-dropping applicants on the trail to know these sentiments still ring hollow in a lot of people. Ah well, such as life, can't get caught up in what others think of where you're going.
 
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Daiphon

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Hate to admit it, but the more senior people on this forum were right: After finishing half of my interviews, I now understand that general gestalt, fit and location are more important than being at a so-called "top" program (if there is such a thing).

I, like many others, scowered the Internet looking for the "elite" programs and have seen at least 1 "top" program I loved and another that I was very luke-warm on. I've seen two less prestigious programs, I loved one and disliked the other.

I doubt this will influence anyone in the future (I know it wouldn't have changed my mind), but forget about "prestige" when you apply and apply places you and your significant other will be happy and enjoy the people.

Well said, grasshopper. d=)

It's all relative... but if you're happy with your coworkers & staff, you'll have less of a clock-punching mentality and be more more energized and eager to learn. Helps immensely during the winter doldrums & career-affirmation (off-service) months.

Plus, happy wife = happy life.

Cheers!
 

sylvanthus

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Agreed, one program comes to mind that is supposedly a great program, but I got such bad vibes off the people that it is dead last on my list. Fit is huge and it is pretty amazing what just being at the program for an interview can tell you even without asking a single question.
 

K31

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Gotta agree here too. As I go through my interviews, I'm becoming convinced I'd be happier at the program where I did my away than even at the top-ranked programs where I'm interviewing. To be sure, it's a well-regarded program, but hardly "brand-name". But it's close to family and I got along great with the residents. I have 5 interviews left, but it's still the one to beat.
 

RustedFox

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Hey, OP - I had the same "a-ha!" moment not long ago, at the resident -> attending level.

It'll happen again, bud.

I remember being a senior resident, and thinking about one of my attendings: "Oh.. my... god... Doctor X is ******ed. Doctor X is... a... ******! (S)he is proof that you can be ******ed... and do this job... I will never, ever do this when I'm an attending. It's downright foolhardy!"

Now... yeah, I see what that attending was doing. Makes perfect sense.

Good luck, amigo.
 

RustedFox

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Agreed, one program comes to mind that is supposedly a great program, but I got such bad vibes off the people that it is dead last on my list. Fit is huge and it is pretty amazing what just being at the program for an interview can tell you even without asking a single question.

This happened to me, too. I really thought prior to interviewing there: "Wow... I'd give my left testicle to go THERE." Afterwards, I thought... - "Hmm... something is very rotten in Denmark."

So glad I didn't match there. A buddy of mine did "match there". He tried to leave, as did a couple others in his class.
 

nycqqe

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I think a lot of people will rank a more prestigious hospital higher just because of the prestige, then self-justify it to themselves as if it's because of something else. I think it's actually a blessing, because it's a self-selection processes and it's probably better that people that care about certain things end up working with each other.

I trained at a program where there are many programs nearby, and we were not at the prime location and weren't the big name hospital in town, even though the training is known(arguably) to be one of the better ones in town. Many med students just plain not have heard of the hospital so the program does have to try to promte itself harder, especially for competitive applicants, but the residents that ended up there ranked it because they truly liked the fit and the training. EM is a small community so we all had friends or classmates that matched nearby and it was common for the residents at my program to exchange stories on how people we knew were miserable at other places and how we felt lucky where we matched.

Again, EM is a small community that's probably why med students don't get to really find out who's more miserable at where and more importantly, why, because the "community" deters people from talking about it and leaking unfavorable info. So assume that no current resident is telling you the truth on how they really feel about their program and every program is "good," just like how all medical students are at least "good" on recommendation letters, you have to go with your gut feelng.
 
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winkleweizen

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Hate to admit it, but the more senior people on this forum were right: After finishing half of my interviews, I now understand that general gestalt, fit and location are more important than being at a so-called "top" program (if there is such a thing).

I, like many others, scowered the Internet looking for the "elite" programs and have seen at least 1 "top" program I loved and another that I was very luke-warm on. I've seen two less prestigious programs, I loved one and disliked the other.

I doubt this will influence anyone in the future (I know it wouldn't have changed my mind), but forget about "prestige" when you apply and apply places you and your significant other will be happy and enjoy the people.
I dont believe you!
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FSU2013

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Lol. Don't get me wrong, a top program is currently my number one, but that's because I loved the people, location and vision of the program; what I thought my rank list would look like before interviews started and what it looks like after the first half of my interviews are completely different. I cancelled one elite program interview because i decided location really is important to me and my wife and another top program is really low on my list. A couple newish/less talked about programs are pretty high on my list.

My point was simply to say our (my) obsession with name was dumb. I want to go somewhere that my wife and i will like the location, people and vision of the program - regardless of reputation.
 

docB

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I think a lot of people will rank a more prestigious hospital higher just because of the prestige, then self-justify it to themselves as if it's because of something else. I think it's actually a blessing, because it's a self-selection processes and it's probably better that people that care about certain things end up working with each other.

That's a very insightful comment.:thumbup:
 

mrhealth

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When I interviewed at a well known hospital, the resident giving the tour straight up told me how unhappy he had been and how many hours they worked made him have no life outside of the hospital. The justification that he used was "I get to tell people I'm at ____ hospital". I agree with some of the previous posters that say that this self-selects for a certain type of applicant. This has a value and some place greater weight on it than others. Quality of life was much more important to me. Another point to be aware of is that at some of the prestigious hospitals, the EM department might now have as much sway over some of the other established departments just given how new the specialty is... EM residency programs were kept out of some of the big name hospitals until relatively recently.
 

Glitterbox

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yeah I agree it just depends on the person because I still think prestige is going to be a factor for me.
 
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