Have I been deluded into thinking it's impossible to get into a US med school??

[littlecalvaria]

Or is it actually as difficult as everyone says it is?

My brother went straight from h/s to SGU's pre-med program for a few reasons. One was that he would have saved 1 year, another was that if you do okay in pre-med there then you pretty much solidify as spot in their med program, and lastly because people said getting into US med schools is almost impossible. After about a year at SGU he realized he made a huge mistake and probably should have did his undergrad in the states and at least given himself a chance to try for a US school. He's a pretty smart student and he could have easily gotten into a US med school IMO, he finished his undergrad at SGU with around a 3.8-3.9 GPA, and he has finished 1 year of med school with a 4.0. Anyway....

So now here's my problem. I have finished 1 year of undergrad and I have a decision to make. Are my chances at a US med school realistic or would I just be better off going to the caribb. for 3rd year pre-med and have a much easier time getting into med school? I know the widely accepted opinion around here is that you never go to a caribb. med school unless you have no options left but I'm trying to be realistic here. By the end of my 2nd year of undegrad I'm thinking/hoping my GPA should be around 3.5-3.6. If I finish up 2 more years of undergrad and somehow raise my GPA to around 3.65-3.7 would that give me a solid shot at a US med school? Let's say my MCAT score is okay but not spectacular. I'm just really worried about this because I've heard of people who had great stats and didn't get in anywhere.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Rhinex60]

littlecalvaria nothing is guaranteed. My cousin who is probably one of the smartest girls in my family ended her undergrad at stony brook with a 3.79/32. Rejected across the board.( she going to Ross this fall.) Unfortunately we premed wake up every morning and bust our asses in labs and volunteer offices and arent guaranteed anything. Your GPA is competitive for low tier schools but you should probably bring it higher. MCATs seems to be the breaking point these days. 33+ is necessary. Keep working hard and knowing what you need to do/maintain, med school is not unattainable it is just extremely hard to get into.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

littlecalvaria nothing is guaranteed. My cousin who is probably one of the smartest girls in my family ended her undergrad at stony brook with a 3.79/32. Rejected across the board.( she going to Ross this fall.) Unfortunately we premed wake up every morning and bust our asses in labs and volunteer offices and arent guaranteed anything. Your GPA is competitive for low tier schools but you should probably bring it higher. MCATs seems to be the breaking point these days. 33+ is necessary. Keep working hard and knowing what you need to do/maintain, med school is not unattainable it is just extremely hard to get into.

That's patently absurd. How could a 33+ be necessary when the average matriculant has a 31? As for the OP's GPA, it is currently slightly below average for matriculants, but if s/he brings it up to 3.65-3.7 that is again average for matriculants. In either case, it's silly to dismiss it as "competitive for low tier schools".

Regarding the OP's original question, of course it's not impossible to get into a US MD school - 18,000 people do it every year. Thousands more go to DO schools. The path your brother took is highly unusual, and based on his success at SGU he probably could have done just as well in a US school.

 

[JamesBond15]

It is not impossible. Besides, don't worry about that now. You still have a few years ahead of you. See what your MCAT and GPA are going to be and then decide from there. Apply to DOs as well.

 

[Soba]

Have I been deluded into thinking it's impossible to get into a US med school??

YES.

Oh, and go to the people that convinced your brother to go to SGU and bitchslap them.

 

[xmsr3]

littlecalvaria nothing is guaranteed. My cousin who is probably one of the smartest girls in my family ended her undergrad at stony brook with a 3.79/32. Rejected across the board.( she going to Ross this fall.) Unfortunately we premed wake up every morning and bust our asses in labs and volunteer offices and arent guaranteed anything. Your GPA is competitive for low tier schools but you should probably bring it higher. MCATs seems to be the breaking point these days. 33+ is necessary. Keep working hard and knowing what you need to do/maintain, med school is not unattainable it is just extremely hard to get into.

Rhinex, how many schools did she apply too? I have to say that your anecdote scares me. Your cousin was slightly above average for matriculants and yet she didn't get in anywhere?

Stories like that make you want to run to AAMC and apply to some DO schools just to be safe.

 

[MN premed]

YES.

Oh, and go to the people that convinced your brother to go to SGU and bitchslap them.

 

[Vihsadas]

If you are realistic about what you will be required to do to have a shot, and you are able to passionately and intelligently convey this, then you will most likely do okay. It is, however, by no means a sure thing, and by no means easy. You'll really have to make some sacrifices, but you can do it. I'm a case in point, but from what I've seen of others, I'm also an outlier. I started off with about a 3.0 GPA and busted my butt with near 4.0s in subsequent semesters to have a shot and did a bunch of other things that really helped me (MCAT obviously really helped, but even then I was flat out rejected at many, many places).

I won't go into too many details about the specifics that you should be doing right now to give yourself that chance, but a few days of browsing the archived advice on these forums should help you a lot.

I will say that SDN often makes it sounds more bleak than it is because people that have trouble getting into medical school, or, those who started out with a tough uphill battle (like myself) are self-selected for seeking out help on sites such as SDN.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Stories like that make you want to run to AAMC and apply to some DO schools just to be safe.

Good luck with that.

 

[XRanger]

I agree nothing is guaranteed.
my friend with 3.9/35 applied to 30 schools and only got into 2 schools...off the waitlists. But he applied late like in august.

to OP, my gpa is around 3.7 but ok MCAT (30) and I got into med school. So nothing is guranteed, but thereis luck involved.

 

[Vihsadas]

I agree nothing is guaranteed.
my friend with 3.9/35 applied to 30 schools and only got into 2 schools...off the waitlists. But he applied late like in august.

to OP, my gpa is around 3.7 but ok MCAT (30) and I got into med school. So nothing is guranteed, but thereis luck involved.

Just for the OPs edification, (not implying anything about your own personal viewpoint), there really, really, really are other important factors in medical school admissions that can make or break your application. The MCAT/GPA are like the gateway. They will get you in the door, but they absolutely will not, and should not (IMO) guarantee you a spot. Your interview, letters, essay, and extracurriculars are extremely important. If you aren't a dynamic person, have nothing in your app that is unique/helps you stand out, or make a bad impression at your interview, you won't get in. It all matters.

 

[JJMrK]

littlecalvaria nothing is guaranteed. My cousin who is probably one of the smartest girls in my family ended her undergrad at stony brook with a 3.79/32. Rejected across the board.( she going to Ross this fall.) Unfortunately we premed wake up every morning and bust our asses in labs and volunteer offices and arent guaranteed anything. Your GPA is competitive for low tier schools but you should probably bring it higher. MCATs seems to be the breaking point these days. 33+ is necessary. Keep working hard and knowing what you need to do/maintain, med school is not unattainable it is just extremely hard to get into.

I think both of those are a little bit exaggerated.

 

[Soba]

I think both of those are a little bit exaggerated.

This is SDN, remember? If you haven't won a Nobel prize or treated AIDS patient in Somalia while publishing your latest article on hepatocyte protein pathway, you can forget about getting accepted into a US medical school.

YOU ARE ALL GOING TO GET REJECTED.

/thread

 

[gplex86]

Average stats for getting to a US MD school are around a 3.5 GPA and a 30 MCAT.

If you're somewhere in that ballpark, and you have a good reason to go into medicine, and you've demonstrated yourself through things like clinical work and/or research, and you can articulate those experiences in a personal statement, and you can get good letters of recommendation, and you can conduct a good interview -- well, then you'll have a shot.

As for people with high scores who don't get in - why does that even matter? I didn't get a summer job at Carvel Ice Cream by submitting a SAT score report. I can't cut the line at Supercuts because my credit score is over 720. And I don't get extra tokens at Chuck-E-Cheese by dropping my pants.

 

[Vihsadas]

Average stats for getting to a US MD school are around a 3.5 GPA and a 30 MCAT.

If you're somewhere in that ballpark, and you have a good reason to go into medicine, and you've demonstrated yourself through things like clinical work and/or research, and you can articulate those experiences in a personal statement, and you can get good letters of recommendation, and you can conduct a good interview -- well, then you'll have a shot.

As for people with high scores who don't get in - why does that even matter? I didn't get a summer job at Carvel Ice Cream by submitting a SAT score report. I can't cut the line at Supercuts because my credit score is over 720. And I don't get extra tokens at Chuck-E-Cheese by dropping my pants.

While the average for matriculants is not a 3.8 and 33 (way too high), it's also not as low as 3.5 30. It used to be like that a few years ago, but it's gone up a fair bit in the past few years. As of this year, the matriculant average for every accredited US school was 3.66 GPA/ 31 MCAT.

 

[red10]

If you have average scores you shouldn't:
-apply to top tier schools only
-apply late/procrastinate
-suck at communicating and writing

if you can avoid those, you can usually get in SOMEWHERE. people with stellar scores who get rejected everywhere usual fail at one of the above.

Also, remember you are on SDN in which everyone is ridiculously above average so don't fret if you get advice like "anything less than 33 is worthless"

 

[alibai3ah]

While the average for matriculants is not a 3.8 and 33 (way too high), it's also not as low as 3.5 30. It used to be like that a few years ago, but it's gone up a fair bit in the past few years. As of this year, the matriculant average for every accredited US school was 3.66 GPA/ 31 MCAT.

Don't listen to the people here....while it is VERY difficult to get in. A 30/3.5 won't keep you out of any school. The averages are going up, but you need to realize that numbers are only 50% of the game. For every 35/4.0 getting rejected, we hear about 29/3.4's getting accepted. What I have learned from talking to A LOT of people is that numbers are more or less a cut off and from there they see what else you have to offer. Will it help to have good numbers......SURE. But if you are average, you just need to show you are stellar at other things. I truly believe someone with a 3.5/30 with strong EC's/writing and interpersonal skills can get in easily....

 

[alibai3ah]

Sorry not easily, but get in....

 

[sunset823]

To the OP - sorry to say, but your brother was an idiot. This process is very random, but everybody does end up getting a fair shake (or the vast majority, anyway). My GPA was (and still is, cuz I never did a post-bac) in the pits, but I still got into a US MD school, and a pretty decently ranked research institution at that. And I got waitlisted at a school where the averages are a 3.7 and 35 or something like that.

Just continue to do well in your classes, take a class for the MCAT if you need to and do well on that (I know my MCAT, while not amazing, helped me in the process a lot), and give yourself at least two shots in the US before even thinking Carib.

edit: the 3.7 and 35 is an MDApps average at Tufts...the real average is 3.6 and 32, but still, my point is the same

 

[gplex86]

While the average for matriculants is not a 3.8 and 33 (way too high), it's also not as low as 3.5 30. It used to be like that a few years ago, but it's gone up a fair bit in the past few years. As of this year, the matriculant average for every accredited US school was 3.66 GPA/ 31 MCAT.

Vihsadas,

You are correct about the overall mean for allopathic matriculanets (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/2008mcatgpa.htm).

However, I said the averages were "around" a 3.5/30 for a reason.

Keep in mind how statistics work. Just because you're a little below the average, doesn't mean you're screwed. What you really want to know is, "how many standard deviations am I from the mean?" Thankfully, the AAMC provides that statistic:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpabysex4mat.htm

While the average MCAT score was around a 31 in 2008, the standard deviation was more than 5 points! So assuming a normal distribution (which we can do based on the large sample size), 68% of all matriculants had a MCAT score between 26 and 36. If you're in that range, you're 'aight. Also, 95% of matriculants were between a 21 and a 41.

Average GPA in 2008 was 3.66, but again the standard deviation was 0.26. So, 68% of matriculants had an overall GPA between 3.5 and 3.92. If you're in that range, you're 'aight. 95% of matriculants had a GPA between between 3.24 and (theoretically?) 4.18.

We're forgetting something, though. Something huge. The OP said he or she wanted to go to a US med school. The AAMC data we're working from does not include osteopathic medical students - and nowadays they make up 20% of all US med students. That means that the averages are even lower than the AAMC data would seem to indicate. You can't just ignore 1/5 of the med student population!

If you really took into account all the medical students in the country, I think you'd find that average scores haven't changed much. It's just that most of the new students are coming from osteopathic schools.

Taking all this into account, I again submit that if you have around a 3.5/30 and you've proven yourself in other areas, then you will have a decent shot at getting into a US medical school.

 

[UVAbme2009]

The process is so arbitrary that it's pointless to try and guess what your chances will be.

At this time a year ago, I figured I'd maybe get four interviews at most. I just wanted one acceptance. I ended up interviewing at six schools, with interview dates very spaced out throughout the cycle. I got into EVMS in September and UVa in June. That's it.

Don't bother predicting anything. But my point is that anything can happen to anybody. People with less than stellar stats get into schools all the time. People with great stats get rejected all the time. My best two pieces of advice are to apply early and be different. Have a story to tell. That goes for everyone.

Good luck, and don't give up after one year of undergrad. You're better than that.

 

[RySerr21]

I agree nothing is guaranteed.
my friend with 3.9/35 applied to 30 schools and only got into 2 schools...off the waitlists. But he applied late like in august.

to OP, my gpa is around 3.7 but ok MCAT (30) and I got into med school. So nothing is guranteed, but thereis luck involved.

I knew someone with a 4.0/45 and got rejected from EVERYWHERE. He applied to MD, DO, and Carib.

Rhinex, how many schools did she apply too? I have to say that your anecdote scares me. Your cousin was slightly above average for matriculants and yet she didn't get in anywhere?

Stories like that make you want to run to AAMC and apply to some DO schools just to be safe.

dont let stupid threads like this freak you out. peopple are talking out of their ass. its not THAT hard to get in. just play the game right and stop freaking out over other people's numbers. Worry about yourself, make your application as strong as possible, and apply. Thats all you can do.

littlecalvaria nothing is guaranteed. My cousin who is probably one of the smartest girls in my family ended her undergrad at stony brook with a 3.79/32. Rejected across the board.( she going to Ross this fall.) Unfortunately we premed wake up every morning and bust our asses in labs and volunteer offices and arent guaranteed anything. Your GPA is competitive for low tier schools but you should probably bring it higher. MCATs seems to be the breaking point these days. 33+ is necessary. Keep working hard and knowing what you need to do/maintain, med school is not unattainable it is just extremely hard to get into.

thats no where near correct. Your cousin should have been more patient and just applied again instead of jumping to the island.

To the OP - sorry to say, but your brother was an idiot. This process is very random, but everybody does end up getting a fair shake (or the vast majority, anyway). My GPA was (and still is, cuz I never did a post-bac) in the pits, but I still got into a US MD school, and a pretty decently ranked research institution at that. And I got waitlisted at a school where the averages are a 3.7 and 35 or something like that.

Just continue to do well in your classes, take a class for the MCAT if you need to and do well on that (I know my MCAT, while not amazing, helped me in the process a lot), and give yourself at least two shots in the US before even thinking Carib.

edit: the 3.7 and 35 is an MDApps average at Tufts...the real average is 3.6 and 32, but still, my point is the same

this process may seem random b/c we dont really understand how they select certain applicants and reject others, but it is FAR from random. Each school is looking for a very specific applicant, and believe it or not, its not just about the numbers. Thats the trap we pre meds fall in to when we see a person rejected with a 34/3.8. We automatically think that b/c this applicant was rejected and another person with a 3.5/30 was accepted that the process is totally random. You think they are just pulling applicants out of a giant hat? Cmon dude. Not at all. The second applicant obviously had other things that the addmissions committee was looking for. The key to success is to do your research and apply to schools that you think you will fit. If you do that, then your average numbers will just be one part of the package that makes you an overall excellent applicant.

 

[Vihsadas]

Vihsadas,

You are correct about the overall mean for allopathic matriculanets (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/2008mcatgpa.htm).

However, I said the averages were "around" a 3.5/30 for a reason.

Keep in mind how statistics work. Just because you're a little below the average, doesn't mean you're screwed. What you really want to know is, "how many standard deviations am I from the mean?" Thankfully, the AAMC provides that statistic:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpabysex4mat.htm

While the average MCAT score was around a 31 in 2008, the standard deviation was more than 5 points! So assuming a normal distribution (which we can do based on the large sample size), 68% of all matriculants had a MCAT score between 26 and 36. If you're in that range, you're 'aight. Also, 95% of matriculants were between a 21 and a 41.

Average GPA in 2008 was 3.66, but again the standard deviation was 0.26. So, 68% of matriculants had an overall GPA between 3.5 and 3.92. If you're in that range, you're 'aight. 95% of matriculants had a GPA between between 3.24 and (theoretically?) 4.18.

We're forgetting something, though. Something huge. The OP said he or she wanted to go to a US med school. The AAMC data we're working from does not include osteopathic medical students - and nowadays they make up 20% of all US med students. That means that the averages are even lower than the AAMC data would seem to indicate. You can't just ignore 1/5 of the med student population!

If you really took into account all the medical students in the country, I think you'd find that average scores haven't changed much. It's just that most of the new students are coming from osteopathic schools.

Taking all this into account, I again submit that if you have around a 3.5/30 and you've proven yourself in other areas, then you will have a decent shot at getting into a US medical school.

I never stated anything to the contrary. My post was a simple statement of fact. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[gplex86]

I never stated anything to the contrary. My post was a simple statement of fact. Nothing more, nothing less.

True. But I felt that a more comprehensive examination of the facts was important, since the point of this thread is to clarify misconceptions.