Have you been a victim of racism during interviews?

Well no racism here - but in terms of racial questions as a whole, i was asked in one interview: How can we increase the amount of URM's to apply to our school. I should of been like, "that's easy - take me!"

 

E'01
Definately a good answer!


Anyway...I think this line of questioning is uncalled for.

If you feel as though you were disriminated against because of your race, religion, or otherwise...contact the Director of Admissions and tell them yoru concern.

You may get another interview, and they may be happy to remove an interviewer who doesn't deserve to be in such a position.

Be tactful, though, or you may come across with the wrong message.

 

If someone offends you with their remarks, I totally think you should contact their admissions office and let them know. People you meet during a visit are there to represent the school to the applicants - trust me when I say that you'll be doing the school a big favor by getting offensive people out of a school's interview circuit.

I know it's hard, and there's tons of hesitation for applicants to call up the ADMISSSIONS OFFICE and talk about an uncomfortable topic. But don't forget that the interview/visit is a 2-way street - they're out to impress you just as you are there to impress them.

btw.....the worst such story like this I've heard is from an asian female friend of mine who was asked in her interview to speak on "why all asian kids want to be doctors". She was really taken back by this question and every time she tried to change the subject the dude kept pressing her to explain "these people" to him.

crazy, huh?

 

That is really messed up! It's sad to think that these people with their worldly education would still be so ignorant and insensitive. Obviously, no one is around or has the guts to curb their tactlessness.

 

I didn't experience any racism at my interviews. In fact, I have experienced little to no racism ever; period. However, there was this one wierd experience (non-racism) that really turned me off at one interview. This guy was obviously uncomfortable and couldn't interact well. He was making an effort to sell the school; but his tone was condescending and paternalistic. He ignored everything I said (as well as everything I was interested in) and he kept emphasizing how I need a place where people will take care of me and show me what to be interested in.

 

This discussion has inspired me to speak up to the director of Admissions at UCD. AT the time of my school interview, I didn't think much about the underlying tone of my interviewer and his questions (the whole interview stress alone was enough for one day and it was my first interview). Most of his Qs were fair, BUT I've been thinking back to all of his questions a lot lately (now that I'm getting wiser about the whole interview process and gaining more experience)...I am now convinced that two of his Qs were downright discriminating either racially or economically :

Q1: UCD strives for increasing the diversity of their student body, so what should the school do if 150 qualified Korean Americans apply this year AND unfortunately, for the sake of diversity, we can accept only 10? How should we screen for the best 10?

My response: ****, if all 150 are well-qualified, take them all in. There's absolutely NO reason they should be weeded out based on their ethnic profile. Anyway, I didn't like this Q.

Q2: Financing med school is very very expensive. Do you think it's school's responsibility to cap the upper limit as to how much loans students can borrow? Some have no idea how destructive this whole "unlimited-borrowing" loan policy can be until they want to start having family after school. ...(*this guy was really leading me into saying only the wealthy ones should apply esp. to private schools*) What's his freaking pt anyway, to prove that I shouldn't go to med school cuz I can't finance the darn education???

Ok, maybe I'm over-reacting... I honestly think that his interviewer privilege should be provoked or at least he should be warned for the sake of many others who are yet to be interviewed at Davis... (don't get me wrong, most interviewee had a good time here...I did too, til I began to read more deeply into his Qs)

 

Whaaaaat?!!!! That is not right! Someone needs to call foul on that sucker at Davis.

Woohoo! you guys have probably figured out by now that I'm just seizing every opportunity to show off the gremlin. But what the he11?

 

Patiently Waiting,

It sounds like your interviewer was way out of line. I mean, there's no justification for asking questions concerning your race and/or financial situation. I can't believe that **** he asked about diversity and accepting Korean-Americans. What the heck kind of answer was he expecting?

Subtle racism is the worst because it's difficult to prove and you can rack your brain trying to figure out if it really was racism.

 

I never understood why pple took offense at these questions....I am not a white blue-eyed blonde guy...

however, I've been asked similar type questions...if you have a good answer for everything then not getting defensive and giving a logical rsponse suits ur case better....

unless he/she says a derogatory remark.....

for example, for the sikh to shave his "beard" and look more american.....you could have responded that diversity is what makes this country great, no two individuals look alike..."yes i am tempted to shave off the beard, however, it takes an immense courage to keep it during these events...it shows that I am the american product thta we dont judge a book by its cover"

for the chinesse immigration...no why curb it? immigrants are one of the most hardworking pple that come to the usa, and they climb their ladder up, that is the american dream to work hard and eventually give back to the community....I am sure (loooking at the interviewer), that sir or madam, I am sure that when your great ancestors came to this country, pple were saying lets curb immigration...and yet, America didnt, because it loves everyone and opens her arms to pple who take care of her....look at you now, you for example have achieved so much in this country and now are part of an admissions board...so it so wrng for me to want the same thing?

in terms of koreans all 150 being qualified...putting ethnicity aside, the medical school procedure is very competitive, we have sometimes 7000 pple applying for 120 seats...so I am sure there are 200 of each ethnicity that are qaulified, and we have to take a limited amount of each race to create a class that represents society....you could also have 200 chinese immigrants, 200 hispanic immigrant, etc etc who are qaulified, the bottom line is that we have alimitted number of seats, and if we could have accepted all 7000 then we would have! but that is NOT the case and that WAS NOT THE QUESTION....so the answer to that question would be to limit the amount of koreans.....

 

I personally dont think any of the above were racist questions!

i've been asked questions about my background etc etc...they want to know a differnet opinion, reacting defensively to them, doesn't help your situation....

unless again, they specifically said, all pple are evil, idiots, stupid, calls names, makes more of a "political/religious statement" then that is RACIST

if it is in the phrase of a question and ASKING UR OPINION, then it ain't in my book!

 

Watcha!

Dude! I think you are RACIST..
Don't mess with me men! I'll freaking pull the race-card on your @ss. You're from "WHITE" house? What the he11 is that supposed to mean?

Hey I'm just kidding Expensive j/k; I'm sorry. I agree with you that as far as we know, this Davis guy is clean. Though one has to be very skeptical because sh!t happens more often that you'd expect

 

I agree with WatchaMaCallit. I don't really feel that any of those questions come off as being racist. The interviewers seem to be probing for your opinions on specific topics. That leads me to believe that they just want to see if you can come up with a coherent argument/statement for/or against what they are saying.

From reading threads on this forum, it seems that occasionally an interviewee may be asked for their opinion on highly personal, touchy ethical topics, and so on. A physician needs to not only be able to communicate well with their patients but they also must be able to work well with their colleagues in the medical profession. Thus, I would think that interviewers want to make sure that you are not prone to flying off the handle over sensitive questions and that you are able to communicate in a well thought out manner.

Just my two cents..

 

Sorry Watcha and Daisy, but you're out to lunch if you don't think those questions are out-of-line. As a fourth-generation Asian-American whose family has been through internment camps and other such, you learn quickly how painful being singled out because of your ethnic background can be. It feels like ****.

What the hell kinda question is that: "Look more American by shaving your beard"?!?! If you're American, and I know plenty of Indian-Americans who are, than you look American beard or no beard.

"Curbing Immigration, what should we do about it?" Once again, hearkens back to Chinese Exclusion Act of the 1800s. This is a jacked up question, he's trying to make the interviewee of immigrant background feel like part of this immigration problem. How could anyone answer this question comfortably? You're trying to stay calm and impress this guy, at the same time he's denigrating a group you belong to. Terrible.

"Why do all Asian kids want to be doctors?" F*%ked up. We're just some huge monolithic organism that thinks all the same? Doesn't sound much like my family.

I've been through these line of questions before. You're in a position where it's very hard to say what you feel, bc you're trying to impress the person that is humiliating you and your group.

I've found that questions that begin w/ "Why do/does X group all do X thing or have X characteristic?" generally offensive. Stereotypes hurt.

 

Patiently Waiting,

If you really do feel disturbed by your interview experience, than you should contact the UCD admissions office. However, in all honesty, neither of those questions seemed out-of-line to me. The debt question is very legitimate -- wait until you see the financial aid presentation some schools put together at orientation. It definitely makes you think twice about things. He/she might have just been trying to get you to come up with some creative suggestions about how med school debt should be handled in the future.

As for the Korean comment, in a way, I actually think it's kind of impressive that an interviewer would try to broach the topic of affirmative action at all. It also could have been just another way of saying, "We have hundreds of applicants essentially just like you (at least on paper). Why should we accept you?" And really, that's the whole point of the admissions process anyways.

There's a fine line between probing questions and those that are downright racist or offensive, but it just doesn't seem to me that that line was crossed. Personally, I think some interviewers prefer to use the more probing questions because they yield much more information about an applicant than "Tell me 3 words your friends would use to describe you." The hard questions require on-the-spot thinking and may elicit some actual emotion rather than just a pat response.

 

I can see already this thread isn't gonna get anywhere ideologically, but I must say Lilycat that my concerns are virtually never about the "downright racist" remarks. Those don't get said. The subtles one are the ones that are, b/c they can be said. People wouldn't make comments that were utterly indefensible. We're dealing with smart, savvy people here. They'll choose comments that can be garbed in "I was just probing for an emotional response", but probing for an emotional response is no license to insult. Why don't I get asked these questions when being interviewed by other minorities or Internationals? B/c they too have been through them and wish to avoid putting another thru their experience. I think this was what Martin L. King jr was talkin' about.

 

Heh, I think all of these questions are great. I think it would not be out of line for an interviewer to ask, "What can we do to let more qualified applicants in and keep those lower-scoring URMs out?" It's not so much if he is being a racist or not, he is probing you for your response. If you get mad it shows you can't keep your cool.

What if a racist patient asks for another doctor with the same color skin as him? What would you do? If you get pissed off, you are not a good doctor. (Despite your right to get mad, you have to keep your cool - your job is to help, not to be righteous). Oh and hey, when I said racist patient, did you picture a White man, maybe a skinhead or a Southern guy? (If you are not White, that is). Some of you might not, but most of you probably did. We all stereotype, but it's all how you actually treat people.

It is human nature to generalize, its how we make sense of the world. If my Saturn starts up fine every morning since I bought it, I can safety assume it will tomorrow. If I had owned a Ford truck and it had problems starting, I think Ford trucks are not as well made as Saturn (although I may have just got a lemon). It's all about the number and diversity of experiences.

Back to the point: I say it is more offensive if an interviewer treats you disrespectfully than by asking tough, sensitive questions. It should be understood that interviews aren't supposed to be all PC and super-friendly. The world isn't always PC and super-friendly as much as S*it-Com TV might have you believe.

Hey, call the interviewer on his/her comments. You are human, so is he/she. If they say something racist, say, "That is a rather prejudical statement." If you can't say that to their face, then you don't really have a good case. You hesitate because you know that most likely they are just testing you and getting mad at them will make you look foolish and naive.

The world is f*cked, make love to it.

 

Once again this is an ideological gulf that will not be bridged so we should let it die, but to address for the final time: "tough questions" that are only posed to minority groups sure doesn't sound like equal and fair treatment to me. If the interviewer want to gauge how you handle a situation they should pose it like all reasonable others would pose it: Suppose you find yourself dealing with.... Not commencing a racial dialogue out of the blue. It's ridiculous to believe that all of us minorities, particularly to me as an over-represented minority, have the caveat: Hey get ready for racist questions because they're trying to see how you handle it? But, it's okay. Giving the green light for racist questions to see what kind of doctor you'll be? Sorry but you're gonna face a jillion difficult situations in medicine that can't possibly be mimicked in an interview. The essays, the courses, the MCATs, the ECs, LOR these should give a fair estimation of a minority applicant w/out having to ask questions that highlight their differences in a negative sense.

 

Gosh....the way some people have talked about this, you'd think that they'd be cool with some good 'ol Soviet style interrogations to go along with their interviews. ("You're going to kick us in the groin now? Ok! That's a good idea b/c some unruly patient will kick us there one day, and I'm glad we're recreating this in the interview!")

Sarcasm aside....I totally agree that medicine is a high-stress and intense environment, and that it wouldn't hurt to grill candidates a little bit. Ask them tough questions about their grades, activities, essays, recs, etc. Ask them impossibly hard social questions (abortion, euthanasia, etc.) and then play bad cop to make the students sweat. As you can see, there's no limit here to how high the interviewer wants to turn up the temperature on the poor kid.

So that being the case, the whole "stress test" aspect of an interview can be taken care of through hard questioning. Why then, are some people insisting that interviewers should be allowed to be offensive as well?

The argument I'm hearing is that since we'll have patients some day who will make sexist/racist remarks, those remarks should be fair game in an interview. Now I don't know about you guys, but I see interviews as FORMAL events designed to gauge whether a student should enter a PROFESSIONAL field. Yes, we will probably encounter some harsh words from patients on the wards, but that fact does not give interviewers the right to make offensive comments themselves!

Some of the comments on this thread that people have said are "fair-game" questions, are anything but - they're highly inappropriate questions that would never fly in any other type of job interview.

I suspect a large part of the reason interviewers do this every year and kids around the country gladly put up with it is that most students are coming straight out of college. As this is their first real professional interview for something other than a summer internship, they probably don't realize that questions like "Why don't you look more American" aren't really kosher with the laws of the land.

 

I second aldo's viewpoint. There's no way questions like those posed to Patiently Waiting would stand without legal repercussions in any other professional setting.

And I don't hear anybody coming back from an interview talking about how the interviewer pointed out his or her caucasian descent. It's basically a double standard that's being practiced in these interviews.

 

Kazzar:

You are wrong in your assumption that it's o.k to stereotype people. You are waaaay off base on that one. Your example using cars and trucks doesn't do much to help your arguement either. People are more complex beings than cars & trucks and deserve far more respect. Stereotyping people is a BAD thing; period! Do you know how much pain and suffering people experience in this country on a daily basis due to racial profiling? Have you ever heard the term "Driving While Black"? Thousands of people get pulled over everyday by cops for DWB offences. Every year someone is shot dead right there on the interstate curb for a mere DWB offence. No reading of rights; no arrest; no legal defense; no trial. The "legal" process begins from an execution by a bullet to the head of this unarmed individual.

Do you have any clue how many japanese-AMERICANS were stuffed into concentration camps here in the U.S a short while ago? Proponents of the act presented a similar arguement to your's. Several scars from 1941 are yet to, and may never heal. Even a Stanford professor died in that camp from a trivial and very treatable condition.

People should be treated as individuals and held accountable for themselves alone. That cynical "the world is fuc!<ed anyhow" attitude is simply wrong.

 

Kazzar, there are some topics that cannot be discussed like that in an interview because it may unfairly, grossly bias the interviewer's decision. Race is obviously one of them. Religion is another. Gender is another. Once you point out the interviewee's race relating to his/her qualifications, it's over. End of discussion--the interviewer has overstepped his/her boundaries. People have sued time and time again over this issue and won.

 

this happened at tulane...the interviewer was a 60 year old surgeon who had NEVER lived outside of new orleans (he told me he grew up there, went to undergrad at tulane, etc)...

he started the inteview by asking me if my parents were going to arrange a marriage for me, because "that's what they do over there in the east, right?" . when i told him my parents were more liberal than that, he responded, "so your parents let you do whatever you want?" he kept for about 5 minutes grilling me on who i would marry and what my parents would do about it.

he then asked me if i had ever been to new orleans before, and i told him i had been once in high school for mardi gras with friends. he said "your parents let you come with friends when you were only in high school? is that part of your culture?"

i mentioned the incident to my student interviewer, but i don't think she did anything about it...needless to say, i didnt get into the school...haha too bad i got accepted at other schools MUCH better that crappy tulane...it was like my last choice anyway...who wants to go to school in a fuc*!ng swamp anyway?

ps- for those of you who might doubt that this was racism, ask yourself this: would an interviewer have asked a blonde, blue eyed girl if her parents were going to arrange a marriage for her??? to me, any question about your culture or race is inappropriate b/c what the hell does that have to do with my credentials or application? not to mention, asking a girl about her plans for marriage is SEXISM as well (regardless of race)...how many guys get asked when/who they'll be marrying?

i could really care less now, but i get really angry inside when i think about that interviewer...thank goodness all my other interviewers everywhere else have been really courteous/ fair...

 

I am a foreigner in this country though in my heart I feel like I am an american ((yes! I do pay tax too)

I too think the interview questions were not necessarily racist. Then again, they could've been racist. But I would rather take the questions in the best of intentions and answer them appropriately.

Truth must be told and heard. When someone asks whether 150 korean americans should be admitted to a med school. Well, the truth is if they were the most qualified students..they should be admitted regardless their ethnic background.

Just a little unrelated story. Recently one of my co-workers (at a major engineering company) commented that children of foreigners shouldn't automatically become a U.S citizen. According to him, it doesn't matter if the parents are legal or illegal. Unless they are citizens, their children who are born in the usa shouldn't become U.S citizen automatically.

I have a 10 month old daughter. So..I guess I was a bit more mad. But can you imagine how someone can say these things?

Its amazing to me how people have such a narrow mindset. The fact is, if they apply their own law, their great grandparents wouldn't be a u.s citizens.

Anyways..I tried to behave like a gentleman. But it made me mad and sad at the same time thinking that there are probably many americans (mainly white americans) who doesn't say it but think alike .. just like my co-worker.

Best wishes all.
S. Ahmed

 

Have any Caucasians here felt like they were asked "out of line" questions? I would be very surprised to hear that

 

I think that it is good to ask people questions that challenge them, but it crosses the line when you ask them questions just to make them feel personally uncomfortable.
I am a Caucasian who had a very uncomfortable interview. It was your typical interview experience. Talking about your experiences, why medicine and allof that jazz. Then out of the blue she asked me why I didn't apply for URM status. I said that I didn't because I wasn't a URM. Her response was "You look Hispanic, you speak Spanish and you have lived in Central America, so I just assumed that you were hispanic." And what is I am Hispanic or not? What then?
I think her response was strange, but what was really out of line was her tone of voice. It was very know-it-all and downright obnoxious. I think that the way that someone says something can be as important as what they say. I also think that there are many ways to ask a question and get at some facts- some are less offensive than others.
She then went onto attack things in my application that were ridiculous. I mean everyone has a few red flags, but attacking even things that other schools thought were pluses- ridiculous. I kept my cool and answered all of her questions logically. I know the lines of questioning that are trying to test how you will respond under pressure- this was not like that.
I have been lucky enough to have a lot of interviews, multiple acceptances at top schools and have been challenged in many interviews to defend myself. But, I have never been treated in a way where my interviewer was looking down on me or did not show me any respect. That is uncalled for.

 

Not to justify any of the derogatory questions asked of individuals at interviews, but I believe - and particularly if one is a woman or a URM or both, like myself - that these sort of viewpoints are just the tip of the iceberg and will unfortunately be held by some of our colleagues, upper-level staff, and patients. I only hope that we can all channel those negativities to a positive energy and thus grow from our respective experiences.

 

Fellow applicants--all "patiently waiting" for the verdict :

I know it's about my time to respond to this posting since my story has stirred up many honest emotional responses from you... I swear, I will get back to my line once I'm done analyzing my W. Blot. Til then, peace out!!!

 

Nobody has really mentioned this but I am an arab. And in this situation it would be really a really sensitive subject for the interviewer to ask me anything about my arab background. If any arab has had any trouble please post the situation that was discussed during the interview. I would really like to know if any arabs were put in an uncomfortable situation.

 

It says in "Get into Medical School" written by a team of MDs that "in sum, most medical school interviewers are essentially untrained to do the most important single evaluation that determines whether you will get into medical school….If anything egregious happens during the interview, be sure to notify the Dean of Admissions." This book was written in 1996; the fact that it was even mentioned that much time back further validates the existence of unethical and unfair interviews, and it's up to those/ok, myself, directly encountered to speak up to the Admissions and rectify the situations. Don't think all of those tough, probing questions are directed to see our logics. I am not calling for social activism here…all I'm saying is that we as future physicians should take this noble profession one step up beyond performing p. exams and surgery. This profession calls for a good deal of bravery, sacrifices, respect for others and integrity (see "Doctor's Honor Code&#8221).

Having said this, I must say that the system still needs more work especially in the area of ethics. True, things in the world don't always run the way we want, but so what? You're gonna just sit back and stay indifferent about others' misfortunes? Are you gonna let your fear dictate your life? If I become honored to be part of this profession, I WILL take a proactive role in improving current medical system/care both via biomedical research and by enforcing ethical conducts among us. I don't believe my Davis interviewer meant to sound racist/disparaging intentionally, but the problem was that he was quite oblivious/unaware he was posing unprofessional questions (I'm fairly certain the Honor Code did exist during his med yrs). I would have been cool, if he asked "there are 150 well-qualified one ethnic group applying to Davis. How should we go about to carefully select 10 best qualified in an effort to preserve student diversity" Honestly, do some of you think that I should have said, "I agree, for the sake of diversity, take only those KAs whose MCAT scores are 40 and higher and 3.99 GPA,. While we're on this topic, sir, shall we discuss about a possibility of imposing a new Adm entrance standard for my ethnic group since we tend to be over-achieving nerds so will end up filling up all of the doc-spots soon". If he wanted to see my thought process on this type of questions, he should have taken more caution on his wording of the question.

The financial Q: LiliCat, I also had to work full-time to finance my college education and am proud of successfully handling both full-time schooling and full-time working…that's why I even mentioned it in one of the essays. The real big problem I had on this question was that my interviewer was not interested in hearing about my financial plan, but was busy emphasizing the current medical edu debt rising above $200,000 (is he kidding me, at Davis???) I had to cautiously ask him a few times to make sure he referred only to the 4-yr tuition and the "basic" living cost. The bottom line is I didn't even get a chance to talk about scholarships/army programs in exchange for my future service..

It's HIS responsibility as a professional school interviewer/physician to learn where his boundary lies. I've been reminded of this "boundary" business for years through volunteering in many organizations--dealing with different people, why shouldn't he! I do believe, however, we are human, prone to make mistakes but are also capable of learning from the mistakes and becoming better individuals. I will notify the Ad office of my interview experience, not because I want to see him rotten in hell (maybe I did at some pt ) but because he deserves to be told. I now must need to figure how tactfully I can deliver my story without offending anyone in the office…

Aldo16 "The argument I'm hearing is that since we'll have patients some day who will make sexist/racist remarks, those remarks should be fair game in an interview. Now I don't know about you guys, but I see interviews as FORMAL events designed to gauge whether a student should enter a PROFESSIONAL field. Yes, we will probably encounter some harsh words from patients on the wards, but that fact does not give interviewers the right to make offensive comments themselves!"
Definitely…I ditto you.

Saffron: Your Tulane interview was even more unfair than mine…what was the old man thinking!!! At least I would have had a pleasure of barking top of my lungs at him.

My take
Sh…t! I wrote a whole book on this issue. My apologies.

 

sorry for bringing up this topic again...a couple days have passed since anyone posted to it..but i just read it...

i don't understand how some poeple can think it was allright for that davis interviewer to ask specifically how to discern between korean american applicants. if it was just another question along the lines of "why should we pick YOU when we have so many qualified applicants", then why didn't he just say that instead of bringing in all that stuff about how to discern between kor-am. applicants? it's not like korean americans constitute a whole other breed of applicants that require special consideration! His bringing that up may not mean that he is racist... but i think i still would've been offended! (prolly cuz i'm kor-am myself )