Having doubts

[PsychMode]

For the longest time I have been looking at options for a career, even as I am getting a master's degree in psychology. My goal has been to get a PhD in Clinical. I used to have no interest whatsoever in research. That has changed tremendously. However, I still wanted to have the option of independent practice at least on a part time basis. That option is vanishing with managed care and master's level practitioners.

I looked at my options in health/mental health. I have no desire to get an MSW. Unfortunately, this is going to sound arrogant. But I could do all of the coursework to get an MSW blindfolded and with my hands tied behind my back. I'm exaggerating, to a point. I have a lot of respect for social workers. However, it seems like a few people chose to take the social work route to becoming fulltime psychologists in practice. I'm in a master's psychology program but I have no intention of stopping at a master's degree. I don't want a medical degree and I'm not interested in medical school. I respect the fact that doctors go through h*ll and back to get where they are. The medical model is obviously beneficial, but I would not want that model to be my general and first approach to psychological and life problems. I looked at pharmacy, though, from what I've read in various sources, would fit me the least. I'm not interested in nursing, although I have a lot (and yes, I mean A LOT) of respect for nurses. I even thought about pursuing a JD/PhD (clin psych), but I've read that this option would not burst open any new doors and that I would probably have to start off as either a lawyer or a psychologist anyway. The payoff is not there considering the personal and financial hardship required to get a double doctorate. It's a sexy, enticing possibility, but I have to look at not only the real world payoff for that combination but also my actual reasons for doing it.

I've gone on and on, but basically if I get a PhD and I don't get an academic/research job that I would enjoy, then I may be screwed. I have noticed the farce of people with PhDs having to compete with and be underbid by those with MSWs and other master's degrees for the same clinically/counseling oriented jobs. It would be interesting to watch what would happen if psychologists prescribed medication because I guarantee that it would be followed by MSWs seriously pushing to prescribe as well. If I work as a psychologist in a hospital, then I do fear that my work will be disrespected. I respect what doctors do as doctors, what social workers do as social workers, and what nurses do as nurses... but will I be given due respect? And the pay. I want to do something that is financially rewarding in that I want the pay to be commensurate with not only the work that I do but the work I put into my education and training. I've already listed options that are financially rewarding but would not fit me, e.g., medicine and pharmacy.

I am determined to become a PhD psychologist. Good pay or not. Whether I'm a clinical health psychologist, clinical neuropsychologist, a forensic psychologist, a clinical psychologist or even (groan) a counseling psychologist. Actually getting into a clinical psych program will be hell if possible, but I'll go for it. I am determined to become a scientist-practitioner. But... those nagging doubts...

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[Kushkeeee]

I'm not sure if this will provide you with comfort or not, but you aren't alone in feeling the way you do. Pursuing a doctoral degree is a huge commitment, and it's frustrating when you don't know exactly what you are committing to in that the future is so unpredictable. That said, however, you aren't psychic and have no control over what happens in the future. The way I see things, you should go for what you want right now and pray that the future will hold enticing options for you. What else can you do?

I don't think you sound arrogant in wanting to pursue a doctoral degree over the other options. I just think deep down it's the doctoral degree you want, and so the other options make you feel like you'd be "settling" for something less. This has nothing to do with the respectibility of the other degrees. Rather, it has to do with what "you" really want. And when you really want one thing, it's hard to get excited about something else. So I say go for it. Do what you want. As I stated before in another post, the world will never have too many psychologists in my opinion. People need all the help they can get.

 

[Sanman]

Psychmode,
Seriously, were you spying on the conversation I just had with a friend,because I said the exact same thing to him. The conclusion I came to was that at this point, there are no good jobs,NONE! I considered doing a doctorate in school psych instead of clinical simply because it is more stable and has more well- paying jobs available. My friend just landed a well paying IT job, but who knows when it's getting shipped overseas. I know of 45 and 50 year old doctors being fired from their HMO' s because it was taken over by a new company. Welcome to the world we live in, it seems we're all going to have to take chance from now on.

 

[lazure]

As a doctoral student in clinical-dev psych I concur with Sanman. It is not possible to predict which one of us will get stable and profitable employment after the doctorate. I'm still figuring out whether I want to pursue a research/academic career or clinical practice. (And don't tell me you can combine the two because I know people who have done that and they seem to have little time for anything). For those with doubts, pick the place where you see yourself being satisfied with what you are doing most of the time (because at times you will hate it too.....).

 

[Kimya]

Hello all,

Thought I would give you some of the other side of the coin. I decided to do a MSW program for many of the reasons that have been outlined here. It is getting more and more difficult for psychologists to find jobs and many of those are being taken over by masters level clinicians.

I am interested in being able to have a private practice and perhaps manage an organization some day, so the MSW degree seems to be working well towards that goal.

Unfortunately I have found the OP's perception to be true about the classwork. However I think it is what you make of it. This has allowed me to work during school and pay off all my debt and then some. If you were more academically minded you could definitely pursue research. The MSW program does give you quite a few clinical hours and I have found that to be where most of the learning is done.

To the OP: with a masters in psychology could you apply clinical hours towards being a MFT (marriage and family therapist)? Also, you can get a doctorate in social work. Some of the faculty at my school are LCSW's so they have a private practice on the side while still participating in academics.

Good luck in whatever you decide..

 

[PsychMode]

Kushkeeee, Sanman, Lazure, I agree. I'm most likely going to pursue a clinical health/neuro PhD, but of course I can't predict the future on that. I'll just have to go for it and see what happens. Of course, if I don't get into any programs, I'll have to look into other options. Even if psychologists got to prescribe, I don't know if I would be jumping on the medical model bandwagon. It works for many psychiatric disorders, obviously, and it can be accomodated within a psychosocial behavioral framework (biopsychosocial, I guess). But I feel that too often people are too quick to exercise the pill option with some psychological problems. And whose to say that master's degree practitioners wouldn't later end up prescribing somehow?

Kimya, the master's program I'm in has an option where you can take more classes, do more practicum hours, and become a licensed mental health counselor. But I'm only in the program because of my undergrad gpa and the master's degree is only to improve my chances of getting into a clinical program, even if I can't transfer any of my credits. I just want a chance. I wouldn't do the LMHC option because it's not as versatile as even an MSW. As an LCSW you can do other things if being a therapist, per se, doesn't work for you. I thought about the PhD in social work but you have to have an MSW and experience before you can apply to those. And I probably wouldn't like being a PhD in social work because my research interests are mainly in psychology and psychology department faculty would probably rather cannabilize their own children than hire a social work PhD, though I can totally, completely understand why they wouldn't go for that. Social work has incorporated and appropriated much from the work of psychologists, but pursuing my particular research interests in a social work department simply wouldn't work. For me, if I don't get into a PhD program, then I would be more inclined to become primarily a practitioner (as opposed to a researcher) and I would consider pursuing an MSW (then I could at least say I have two master's degrees , one in psych and one in SW). But not getting into a PhD program is more of a worst case scenario for me at this point.

 

[Kimya]

Hi psychmode,

Completely understand. You have to do what is best for your research interests. It is hard these days to figure out what path is the best because of the rapidly changing mental health system. I vacillated quite a bit between psychology, public health and social work after deciding not to go to medical school. Social work doesn't fit 100% but it is the closest I can get!

Best of luck in whatever you decide.

 

[fiaolani]

Hi Kimya, I know you have your heart set on getting at PhD in Clinical Psych, but have you considered a PsyD? I decided to go the PsyD route at Widener University because I am able to earn dual degrees (PsyD/MBA). I think the best recommendation is to decide how you want to use your degree once you graduate. That should be you determining factor.

 

[fiaolani]

Sorry Kimya, I met for that message to go to Psychmode...not you!!

 

[PsychMode]

Fiaolani, woops, i didn't realize you were doing a PsyD/MBA. I replied to your previous post focusing on JD/PhD info because that's the only PhD combo I've looked at. I guess you are getting a clinical psyd, but are you thinking of possibly going into industrial as well?

A PsyD wouldn't be bad actually, because you can still get academic and research/consulting jobs with it if you decide at some point that clinical practice is not for you. The problem is that I am looking for PhD programs and it's easier to get financial assistance other than loans. Also, jobs in academia are easier to get with a PhD than with a PsyD. I'm still considering the academia option.