Health Care Consulting at McKinsey

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Good stuff in this thread. Found it by googling ex-McKinsey for nostalgia sake.

I am an ex-McKinsey engagement manager who specialized in healthcare. My background was PhD in the Sciences.

Glad to answer any questions here. Though I am not sure if I can add anymore than what's been said already. I can tell at least 1 or 2 commenters here were ex-McKinsey from their vocabulary usage.

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Hi all, I'm about to graduate from an ivy with a MSN (Masters of Science in Nursing) and will be a nurse practitioner. Somebody suggested consulting and I was just wondering if this is even possible at McKinsey through their APD program or are they just looking for MD's. Thanks in advance!
 
Hi all, I'm about to graduate from an ivy with a MSN (Masters of Science in Nursing) and will be a nurse practitioner. Somebody suggested consulting and I was just wondering if this is even possible at McKinsey through their APD program or are they just looking for MD's. Thanks in advance!

My understanding is that the APD program at McKinsey considers ALL graduate degrees besides the MBA.

If you would like to be considered by McKinsey, this would be the place to start. It doesn't take long to apply through the APD section.
 
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I know that the application process is quite rigorous but all of the top tier firms are very picky because they can be. They are typically looking for an Ivy League pedigree with recent consulting experience. If you are looking for a position in a top tier consulting firm I know of an opening in Boston. Let me know.

Good Luck!
 
Hi all,

I am in the final year of completing an MBBS/BSc degree from a top UK institution. My understanding is that people in my position generally apply for a "Junior Associate" role with McK.

Do post-MD/post-MBBS candidates require work experience such as internships in the business world? I don't really have any relevant work experience and was wondering whether or not I stand a chance of being invited to interview.
 
Hi all,

I am in the final year of completing an MBBS/BSc degree from a top UK institution. My understanding is that people in my position generally apply for a "Junior Associate" role with McK.

Do post-MD/post-MBBS candidates require work experience such as internships in the business world? I don't really have any relevant work experience and was wondering whether or not I stand a chance of being invited to interview.

McKinsey is an interesting place. My sense is they don't go by hard and fast rules but, if they think you can help them, they will considering hiring you. This includes a VERY difficult interview process.

There's only one way to find out. Just throw in your application through the APD section. It doesn't take too long; took me about 20-30 minutes (no interview). Just know that the process is VERY competitive.

http://www.mckinsey.com/careers/is_...ours/other_advanced_professional_degrees.aspx
 
I absolutely loved this thread, and it quite parallels a long email that I wrote to a friend last night. As someone else in this thread previously said, I think that many pre-meds that go straight into medical school don't understand the various 'soft skills' needed to be successful in the "business world". It's not nearly enough to be smart and pass exams. Especially as you get higher up the corporate ladder, it's much more about getting people to like you.

As I see it, there are essentially two types of jobs:

1) jobs where your certification/clearly defined skills gets you hired (plumber, nurse, doctor, accountant and programmer (non-management levels), nurse, firefighter, cop, teacher, construction worker, baggage handler, taxi driver, logistics dispatcher, pilot, welder, etc) ..... jobs where you potentially do the exact same thing on your first day of work as you do on your final day of work 30 years later. My pediatrician is working in the exact same office that he was 20 years ago, doing basically the same thing on a daily basis that he was doing 20 years ago (and very happy in life). Being qualified to work in this field is pretty objective.

2) And then there are jobs where your success depends on how much others buy into you (marketing, sales, most of the "business world", management, consulting, investing, artist/entertainer, writing and researching, pastor, politics). Success in this field is a lot more subjective, and you can't easily "make it" in this field by passing certification exams.

I think that there's another valuable difference between the two types of jobs: the first are "infrastructure" jobs and the second are "creating" jobs.

The first type of jobs are jobs that are entirely about "keeping things orderly" and often "fixing things". The plumber fixes broken pipes. The doctor fixes sick people. The firefighter fixes fires, the cop fixes crimes. The baggage handler fixes the problem of passengers not being allowed on the runway to retrieve their bag. The pilot and taxi driver fix the problem of people not being where they wish to be, the teacher, the problem of people being uneducated. These jobs generally focus on doing a clearly-defined task often and doing it well. The people in these jobs aren't looking to "break the mold" or be "revolutionaries". These jobs are vital to the functioning of an advanced modern society, and they are relatively recession-proof.

The second type of jobs is all about "creating new things" and "bringing greater happiness". Creating new ways to bring a customer a product. Finding new customers for a firm. Finding a way to make a firm more profitable. Trying to discover a way to have investment returns that are greater than just investing in CDs, bonds, and savings accounts. Coming up with a new strategy for a firm. Convincing people that your TV show is more entertaining than a rerun of "Seinfeld". And in the case of politicians and pastors, getting people to believe that the ideas that you're selling will bring them greater happiness. These jobs have enormous upside, but also very high failure rates. Almost always in these jobs, you can't do the same thing in year 1 as you do in year 30. Success in these jobs is about constantly thriving and reinventing yourself, and having a deft touch for the wishes and needs of others, as well as an ability to influence the wishes and needs of others.

***

I'm 25, have worked for one of the IT consulting firms mentioned, and I'm now beginning pre-reqs. Our firm laid off a ton of good consultants/managers during the downturn, and who knows where they've ended up. Many of them, likely, in lower-paying jobs that they're not as interested in.

The biggest thing that appeals to me about being a doctor is the clear nature of the career path. If I'm admitted and make it through med-school/residency, I have a pretty clear idea of a job that will almost definitely be available to me on a day-to-day basis 15 years from now (PCP on staff at a large hospital, 150k-ish salary). That's not saying that I will definitely be doing that type of job, but as long as I get all the necessary training/certification, that opportunity will almost certainly be available.
 
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Wanted to bump up this thread and solicit the thoughts of anyone who has bounced between medicine and consulting. Although I love medical science, my heart is not in patient care. I applied for residency and also to MBB - I have a bunch of good residency interviews this winter and have also received a couple consulting job offers. Now I have to decide which path to take. For those who have seen both, I wonder if you can share your experiences? If you left medicine for consulting, what are you doing now? Were you satisfied with the impact you had as a consultant and with the career options afterward? Anyone with regrets? Thanks for your thoughts!
 
Epic thread bump. Already read through the whole thread.

Deciding between medicine or consulting (I know...)

Much more interested in medicine. Love learning about the subject material. Research science/medicine for hours a day on my own time for general knowledge and entertainment. Literally love it and can't get enough. Loans scare me though. Would only be able to go to my state school so would be only school I apply. If I didn't get in there, would not be getting MD. Behind in requisites for medical school. Would want to go into a speciality with minimal patient interaction (Perhaps Pathology?), as it suits my personality best.

Could start consulting right out of undergrad. Already a business major. I am introverted and I question my leadership skills. Seems to have more significant earning potential. Idea of travel and faking extroversion is a negative. Do not get the thrill from studying business on my own than I do from medicine. Would graduate on time and start working immediately. GPA should be more in range for consulting than Medicine (~3.7)
 
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Epic thread bump. Already read through the whole thread.

I am introverted and I question my leadership skills. Seems to have more significant earning potential. Idea of travel and faking extroversion is a negative.

You answered your own question.

You won't last long in consulting. When I say consulting, I mean prestigious consulting like Bain or McKinsey. You can always do "body shop" type consulting which anyone who can string two codes of line can do but that's a low paying, dead end job.
 
I've recently become interested in those field as well, had a couple of questions.

At a top 10 medical school, also have masters from an Ivy. Knew for some time that my heart wasn't into clinical medicine, but thought I would have to put a few years in before I could be able to get the type of job I want (management in the social sector most likely, I am very idealistic and progressive minded). After looking at the type of work that McK is doing, it seems like I could hop into that sort of work a lot sooner than I thought (without putting in 3-4 yrs of residency + the time it would take to work my way up into a mgmt position). My concerns:

-McK is super competitive to get into, wondering if I even have a chance? I go to a medical school at a target school, but I've never seen them recruiting at my med school. My school has a top MBA program too, I don't see the MD/MBAs going that route either.

-Career trajectory once I'm there. I've heard about the "up or out" policy. Wondering what types of jobs I could get if I decide to leave the firm? Will they compensate enough for me to pay these loans back???

-The work, is it really as interesting as the website portrays it to be? On one hand it seems like people are changing the world! On the other hand, I hear a lot of quips about power point presentations.... I'll be an MD. Will I be giving that up to work on power points?

-Lifestyle. Not so worried about the hours, it's the hours I would have been working in residency anyway (maybe even less, with fewer wknds). Moreso concerned about the ability for women to work their way up. I'll be fine going hard for about 3-4 yrs, wasn't planning on having children during residency, but after that I will want to slow down and have babies. Wondering about the flexibility in that area....???

-prep. I don't know any consultants to help me prep for interviews!
 
I've recently become interested in those field as well, had a couple of questions.

At a top 10 medical school, also have masters from an Ivy. Knew for some time that my heart wasn't into clinical medicine, but thought I would have to put a few years in before I could be able to get the type of job I want (management in the social sector most likely, I am very idealistic and progressive minded). After looking at the type of work that McK is doing, it seems like I could hop into that sort of work a lot sooner than I thought (without putting in 3-4 yrs of residency + the time it would take to work my way up into a mgmt position). My concerns:

-McK is super competitive to get into, wondering if I even have a chance? I go to a medical school at a target school, but I've never seen them recruiting at my med school. My school has a top MBA program too, I don't see the MD/MBAs going that route either.

-Career trajectory once I'm there. I've heard about the "up or out" policy. Wondering what types of jobs I could get if I decide to leave the firm? Will they compensate enough for me to pay these loans back???

-The work, is it really as interesting as the website portrays it to be? On one hand it seems like people are changing the world! On the other hand, I hear a lot of quips about power point presentations.... I'll be an MD. Will I be giving that up to work on power points?

-Lifestyle. Not so worried about the hours, it's the hours I would have been working in residency anyway (maybe even less, with fewer wknds). Moreso concerned about the ability for women to work their way up. I'll be fine going hard for about 3-4 yrs, wasn't planning on having children during residency, but after that I will want to slow down and have babies. Wondering about the flexibility in that area....???

-prep. I don't know any consultants to help me prep for interviews!

Also interested in updated salary information across multiple years
 
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Epic thread bump. Already read through the whole thread.

Deciding between medicine or consulting (I know...)

Much more interested in medicine. Love learning about the subject material. Research science/medicine for hours a day on my own time for general knowledge and entertainment. Literally love it and can't get enough. Loans scare me though...

I am introverted and I question my leadership skills. Seems to have more significant earning potential. Idea of travel and faking extroversion is a negative. Do not get the thrill from studying business on my own than I do from medicine. Would graduate on time and start working immediately. GPA should be more in range for consulting than Medicine (~3.7)

The practice of medicine is very different than the process of studying it. Medicine is becoming more and more algorithmic. The doctor is simply following an algorithm dictated by some "expert" panel. It's even getting to the point where you have to justify to the government any reasons for deviating.

Introverts are at a disadvantage in medicine too. You have to interact with people all day long and meet all of their demands. Patients are often quite difficult to deal with. So are nurses. As an introvert myself, I feel like a days' worth of doctor work sucks the life out of me.

I also did a brief stint in health care consulting. The firm I worked for had several large layoffs in the past year, so I'm not doing that anymore. BUT- it was a better fit for my introverted tendencies. There was less people in general to deal with. They generally are more reasonable as well. A lot of the core work is done alone (e.g., preparing reports or performing data analysis) and on a much more independent basis than in medicine. (Example- you have to get a draft of a report done by X deadline. You have more flexibility in terms of when you work on it, when you eat lunch, etc. VS being a doctor and being faced with a waiting roomful of angry, entitled patients demanding to know why you are running an hour behind schedule when the first 5 patients either couldn't answer any question directly and telling a long winded story for each answer, or saying "Oh, by the way..." as you are trying to conclude the visit)

Might want to try getting a job in business/consulting for a few years and try it out. You can always go back to medical school in a few years if you don't like it. The experience you gain by working in business/consulting will always be useful.
 
I actually interviewed for McK APD last fall. I had initially applied out of the blue. I came across the company online. Had no idea who they were at the time, figured it'd be interesting though. Didn't prepare, as I was studying for USMLEs simultaneously. I'm an IMG w/ an MBBS, so I was really out of my element. I was the only physician there, I believe.

I had no idea what I was doing during the first group case, my introvert side was in full force as I was just observing others. Then realized I would have to fake it to make it, I nailed the second case w/ calculations. The written test they give you is pretty rough but doable if you prepare for it.

One of the McK Eng. Manager I interviewed with was a Harvard trained physician herself. She still practices and consults, pretty impressive. I think if I wasn't pursuing clinical medicine I would have considered going this track with more diligence.
 
Do they consider PharmD applicants?

And I take it that the ranking/prestige behind the institution someone attends matters a lot?
 
Hey all,

I am an MD/MBA and I will be working for one of the big three during the summer. I am wondering whether anyone here knows of people who were able to do part time attending work while working for one of the big three... during the interview process I was told of people who were given that flexibility but wanted to get more people to corroborate that. Second, if I were to get a full time offer from my firm (contingent on completing medical school), do they give me the option to take it after I do residency so that if the part time attending option is available, I can try to do both upon joining the firm. Any opinions welcome!

I'm also curious about this. Anyone have any insight?
 
I'm also curious about this. Anyone have any insight?

I don't think deferring an offer is the norm. I think its better to apply once you're at least done with the educational/degree component of your career.

And yes, I was actually interviewed by a practicing physician.
 
Just came across this threat while looking into switching into consulting after medical school (i.e. not doing a residency). I was wondering if anyone who has done this chime in on their experience?
 
Just came across this threat while looking into switching into consulting after medical school (i.e. not doing a residency). I was wondering if anyone who has done this chime in on their experience?

I've met several MDs who went this route, and did quite well. Not having done a residency won't hold you back when it comes to getting a consulting position with a large firm (eg McKinsey or BCG) or in moving up in seniority. However, it will make you look less legitimate in the eyes of some other physicians and other professionals that you come across throughout your career. Not having clinical experience and not being board certified is definitely enough to make many clinicians scoff.

Also, I've never come across an MD who regrets doing a residency and wishes they'd gone straight from med school to a 'real' job. But I have met people who regret not doing a residency. Being board certified really opens up a lot of options if, for example, you decide consulting isn't for you. Additionally, many non-clinical positions for MDs require board certification (of, if not required, some will pay higher for board certification).

I say suck it up and do a residency. If you just don't have it in you, though, rest assured that you can have a great career without it if you put in the time and effort to find a position.
 
there is no hate. Compensation in most big consulting firms is pitifully SUBPAR. You would be far better off starting your own consulting firm, getting gigs here and there and forming alliances/partnerships with other field experts than wasting your time being a "good lil ho" at McK or BCG. I wouldnt even hire someone from those places because to me it merely says to what lengths you will spread your butt cheeks for what is a meager paycheck.

And to your answer your question there are 26 sheriff deputies/police officers (not including firefighters) in the neighboring ghetto county who make MORE than 200 grand. That is public record. The chief of police makes around 450. And has no college diploma.

Basically OWNING the hell out of management consultants in my area. And laughing all the way to the bank.

If anything working at McK, as an MD, is probably ****tier than BCG. Global staffing model is a god damn joke.
 
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