Do you support the health care bill?

  • Yes - in favor

    Votes: 83 31.1%
  • No - opposed

    Votes: 154 57.7%
  • On the fence

    Votes: 30 11.2%

  • Total voters
    267
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roseglass6370

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Just to get some stats...

Yea :thumbup: or nay :thumbdown:on the healthcare bill??

(I know there are already a number of threads on the issue, I just couldn't find a poll and I'm curious to see the "official" pan-out.)

Please don't argue the issue here...there are other threads for that. Just vote. :)
 

oaklandguy

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Just to get some stats...

Yea :thumbup: or nay :thumbdown:on the healthcare bill??

(I know there are already a number of threads on the issue, I just couldn't find a poll and I'm curious to see the "official" pan-out.)

Please don't argue the issue here...there are other threads for that. Just vote. :)
Arguing is unavoidable on a thread like this.
 

jturkel

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hell NO!

oh...and it isnt a bill for health care reform. its a bill for health INSURANCE reform.
 

xBODOMx

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Just to get some stats...

Yea :thumbup: or nay :thumbdown:on the healthcare bill??

(I know there are already a number of threads on the issue, I just couldn't find a poll and I'm curious to see the "official" pan-out.)

Please don't argue the issue here...there are other threads for that. Just vote. :)
Lol if you think that's going to happen.
 

ApoK

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Those of you voting YES and actually plan on becoming a doctor one day need to WAKE UP. Tomorrow could be a sad, sad day for our country.
I'm awake. I'd rather have my pay go down slightly than do nothing at all.
 

fitz0809

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Those of you voting YES and actually plan on becoming a doctor one day need to WAKE UP. Tomorrow could be a sad, sad day for our country.

:laugh: can I change my vote? I woke up.

Tell that to someone who has a pre existing condition and can't buy coverage that they deserve it.
 

minicow

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Jul 24, 2009
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precisely. do you contend insurance doesn't need to be reformed?
im pretty sure the majority of people agree it needs to be reformed. "how" is where the debating begins.
 

BlueElmo

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Those of you voting YES and actually plan on becoming a doctor one day need to WAKE UP. Tomorrow could be a sad, sad day for our country.
Why? I always wondered, if 32 million more are getting insured and getting health care, won't that mean that many more patients for doctors, more/higher salaries for us, etc? Sorry if I sound ignorant.
 

fitz0809

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im pretty sure the majority of people agree it needs to be reformed. "how" is where the debating begins.
:thumbup:

but if not now... probably never ( exaggerate but not for a long time)
 
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According to whatsinthehealthcarebill.com, it says that if this passes, that the government will also (in addition to regulating Physician salaries) regulate residencies. They said it states that the government will tell Med Students where their residency will be, the end. Does anyone who is more familiar with this bill know anything more about this? Seems weird...
 

mechanictodr

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I think the pay going down should be volunteer. You know, so that all the altruistic, independently wealthy, and real (not pseudo) hippy types can fund the system... just do it for the greater good and all. Then everyone would be happy.
 

ApoK

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it does without a doubt, but not by converting to a state of socialized medicine.
Someone has been watching FoxNews. Bullsh*t meter is through the rough on that one. Pray tell, what's socialist about the bill? Please explain in detail because I would sincerely like to know. I am clearly misinformed and need to be educated.
 

fitz0809

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it does without a doubt, but not by converting to a state of socialized medicine.
If you somehow think this is socialized without a public option you need to educate yourself... It's talking points like these that really make me laugh.
 

fitz0809

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Someone has been watching FoxNews. Bullsh*t meter is through the rough on that one. Pray tell, what's socialist about the bill? Please explain in detail because I would sincerely like to know. I am clearly misinformed and need to be educated.
:thumbup:
 

auburnO5

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Why? I always wondered, if 32 million more are getting insured and getting health care, won't that mean that many more patients for doctors, more/higher salaries for us, etc? Sorry if I sound ignorant.

Not sure if you're serious...

Sure, they'll add 32 million people into the system who can't pay ---> more patients/lower salaries/progressively worsening medical care. The system needs to be reformed. Period. The way they're going about it is just scary though.
 

ApoK

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According to whatsinthehealthcarebill.com, it says that if this passes, that the government will also (in addition to regulating Physician salaries) regulate residencies. They said it states that the government will tell Med Students where their residency will be, the end. Does anyone who is more familiar with this bill know anything more about this? Seems weird...
HAHAHA, wow. No reply necessary.
 

roseglass6370

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(Alas, if the arguing is inevitable...)

:laugh: can I change my vote? I woke up.

Tell that to someone who has a pre existing condition and can't buy coverage that they deserve it.
:thumbup: AMEN. None of the people making $200,000+ a year whose taxes are going to be raised slightly are going to miss their money more than those who are uninsured are going to miss not being able to receive surgery for their life threatening condition.
 

fitz0809

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I think the pay going down should be volunteer. You know, so that all the altruistic, independently wealthy, and real (not pseudo) hippy types can fund the system... just do it for the greater good and all. Then everyone would be happy.

Just like those truly in need will be helped by those in a purely capitalist system that donate money.
 

armybound

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Why? I always wondered, if 32 million more are getting insured and getting health care, won't that mean that many more patients for doctors, more/higher salaries for us, etc? Sorry if I sound ignorant.
just because people are insured doesn't mean their insurance pays as well as other insurances. if you can only see 10 patients per day and your patients used to always pay you $100 a piece but now you see 5 patients at $100 and 5 patients at $50, you're doing the same work but making less.
 

jturkel

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Why? I always wondered, if 32 million more are getting insured and getting health care, won't that mean that many more patients for doctors, more/higher salaries for us, etc? Sorry if I sound ignorant.
illegals dont have the right. and 40% of uninsured are uninsured by choice. socialized healthcare will bring down quality of health significantly while ultimately increasing costs. doctors will have to ration care, long waits will be the norm (like in canada), because of less time per patient, more wrong diagnoses....therefore higher costs. quality of health care goes down. the uninsured can already get quality health care for free. even the CEO of UCLA Medical Center says so. see the opinions of the CEOs/heads of the top hospitals in America....they're opinions are more credible:

http://www.examiner.com/x-7462-Atlanta-Faith--Family-Examiner~y2010m3d19-Leaders-from-UCLA-John-Hopkins-Cleveland-Clinic-Hospitals-express-views-on-Health-Care-Reform

this is a big area of concern for me as it dramatically affects my future....and it should concern everyone else, many of whom are clearly uninformed or lack the understanding of exactly what is going on with this supposed "health care reform"....sure there are problems with insurance companies...and coverage...and yes some of these issues need to be addressed...but not this way. wanna lower insurance costs? how about allowing insurance companies to compete by selling health insurance across state lines? there's a good start....and i love how the bill still fails to address medical malpractice/tort reform....which is one of the primary reasons medical costs are so high. i suppose none of you really realize the even an OB/GYN may pay between 125k-250K (yes, 250,000 dollars a year) for medical malpractice insurance. physicians can even afford to run a practice, after paying off 300K in debt and being yrs and yrs behind on making a salary like everyone else does....and trying to pay overhead, other salaries if in private practice, and trying to raise a family...just doesnt work out.
 

oaklandguy

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The government isn't going to control anything with this bill. This bill is all sugar and candy for everyone. Poor people get healthcare rich people get increased taxes and everyone is happy!!! Everyone celebrate!!!

(Extreme sarcasm).
 

minicow

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Jul 24, 2009
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:thumbup:

but if not now... probably never ( exaggerate but not for a long time)
passing legislation because there might not be another chance for a while seems illogical. this type of stuff is not easily repealed so if it fails, well, we're pretty much f'd.

i just believe there were other options and smaller bills with less holes to be filled later on. but hell would freeze over before anything like that ever happend. took the dems a year just to get to this point with majority in both houses.
 

ApoK

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lol, someone should make a poll to get the replies of those who have actually been accepted to medical school vs. those who are only trying to get there. I'd really be interested to see how the two groups compare. You would think the accepted people would be against it (concerned about pay), but I like to believe that this won't be the case at all.
 

fitz0809

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just because people are insured doesn't mean their insurance pays as well as other insurances. if you can only see 10 patients per day and your patients used to always pay you $100 a piece but now you see 5 patients at $100 and 5 patients at $50, you're doing the same work but making less.

Very true. Not a perfect solution... but what about the five people that now receive care that didn't before?

Basically it depends on whether you think health should be a god given right or something that depends on your wealth or social status...
 

fitz0809

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lol, someone should make a poll to get the replies of those who have actually been accepted to medical school vs. those who are only trying to get there. I'd really be interested to see how the two groups compare. You would think the accepted people would be against it (concerned about pay), but I like to believe that this won't be the case at all.
I was accepted :)
 

ApoK

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Hey, I'm just saying what I read and trying to get clarification from people who know more on the topic. Thanks for absolutely no help, though. Kudos.
It wasn't meant to be mean. It just goes to show you how much MISINFORMATION IS OUT THERE. And people--intelligent people--believe it because they don't know what to believe.
 

oaklandguy

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Very true. Not a perfect solution... but what about the five people that now receive care that didn't before?

Basically it depends on whether you think health should be a god given right or something that depends on your wealth or social status...
God actually gave healthcare to the jews and no one else in the Bible because they were his chosen people.
 
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I am all for it, and according to Fox News, we have 217 votes (it's just an estimate though). Right now, the only hurdle is the 6 or so anti-abortion holdouts part of the Stupak 12 (now Stupak 6). However, President Obama might issue an Executive Order to reaffirm his commitment to the Hyde Amendment, which hopefully will appease Stupak and his rowdy bunch, lol.

But yes, the moment is here, and we have the momentum. Let's get health insurance reform done!!! :thumbup:

By the way, this topic has been exhaustively debated in the "Health Care Showdown: It's on!" thread - I'd love to see more debates there (seeing as it's been the same 8 people throughout). Yeah it gets heated, but I've had a blast going through it. Hearing both sides of the argument helps me at least reaffirm that I'm on the right side of the issue (ironically, being on the left).
 

fitz0809

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passing legislation because there might not be another chance for a while seems illogical. this type of stuff is not easily repealed so if it fails, well, we're pretty much f'd.

i just believe there were other options and smaller bills with less holes to be filled later on. but hell would freeze over before anything like that ever happend. took the dems a year just to get to this point with majority in both houses.

I agree with you. Politics is broken... but there are people that can't afford the 25 years it would take to get it right.

Obviously a free market can't handle everything (at least not humanely).
 

roseglass6370

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According to whatsinthehealthcarebill.com, it says that if this passes, that the government will also (in addition to regulating Physician salaries) regulate residencies. They said it states that the government will tell Med Students where their residency will be, the end. Does anyone who is more familiar with this bill know anything more about this? Seems weird...
It's all true. I also heard that it also requires that all doctors use only navy-blue littman stethoscopes and wear black dress pants on Fridays.

Sorry, for the sarcasm, I couldn't resist. But no, actually I haven't heard that. Seems like the source might be a bit off.
 

armybound

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Very true. Not a perfect solution... but what about the five people that now receive care that didn't before?

Basically it depends on whether you think health should be a god given right or something that depends on your wealth or social status...
I don't think it's as extreme as believing healthcare is a right or not. I happen to believe healthcare should be paid for and is not a right to be given to all, but I do think that insuring the uninsured is a noble thing and that physicians should be interested in improving the health even of those who can't pay.
 

armybound

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It's all true. I also heard that it also requires that all doctors use only navy-blue littman stethoscopes and wear black dress pants on Fridays.

Sorry, for the sarcasm, I couldn't resist. But no, actually I haven't heard that. Seems like the source might be a bit off.
yessss, I have a navy Littmann!
 

mechanictodr

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Not sure if you're serious...

Sure, they'll add 32 million people into the system who can't pay ---> more patients/lower salaries/progressively worsening medical care. The system needs to be reformed. Period. The way they're going about it is just scary though.
The fact is that those that can't pay already get care. Sadly, the ones I see most are the kind that are too stubborn and too ignorant to see a PCP even if they had access and would likely end up in the ED anyway. I guess at least with the govt paying for it it will be spread over all 350 million of us and not just those at the hospital. However, I seriously doubt that a valve replacement will cost less than $100k after this is done or that the influx of payments from less charity care will result in more money and resources.

Still, these "uninsured" have full access to ER visits and the best that the hospitals can offer. From the bums and chronic meth users to the hard working blue collar guys. They all get the same great treatment and it gets absorbed by everyone else. This bill will just spread that cost amongst the whole US population and will allow the govt. more control over our salaries. Nothing good will be accomplished by this, but it will make some libs feel a whole lot better about how good they are... right.
 
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Tell that to someone who has a pre existing condition and can't buy coverage that they deserve it.
Serious pre-existings are definitely super sad. I have family friends with problems like kidney transplants and such that could be expensive and are high risk (disqualifying from future insurance purchase).

But seriously, INSURANCE does not mean subsidy. I don't understand how people don't get this.

Would a car insurance company sell you car insurance if your only driving was going to be ice-track racing in michigan?

The necessary directions of reform are twofold: allow insurance purchase from out of state (increase competition) and/or change insurance to catastrophe insurance (a la car insurance, home insurance, etc.) When everyone has to pay out-of-pocket for healthcare, do you really think that prices will stay 20,000 for a surgery? No, it will like dip down to (or below) the 2,000 that the insurance company actually pays out. (those numbers are actual numbers from a surgery, btw)
 

fitz0809

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illegals dont have the right. and 40% of uninsured are uninsured by choice. socialized healthcare will bring down quality of health significantly while ultimately increasing costs. doctors will have to ration care, long waits will be the norm (like in canada),
1st this isn't socialist

2nd Canada's system is messed up (but no one ever points at the 25 other universal health system that work fine)

3rd I was under the impression that the illegals aren't covered... but I can't blame someone just trying to make their lives better by coming here.
 

fitz0809

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Serious pre-existings are definitely super sad. I have family friends with problems like kidney transplants and such that could be expensive and are high risk (disqualifying from future insurance purchase).

But seriously, INSURANCE does not mean subsidy. I don't understand how people don't get this.

Would a car insurance company sell you car insurance if your only driving was going to be ice-track racing in michigan?
Exactly why capitalism isn't designed to handle health care. Because giving real care doesn't help the bottom line.
 

mechanictodr

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Just like those truly in need will be helped by those in a purely capitalist system that donate money.
they are ... its called charity care. There is not choice, it's forced and the cost is spread amongst all the others who can pay. God you need to get a real job and look at some medical bills.
 

jturkel

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Someone has been watching FoxNews. Bullsh*t meter is through the rough on that one. Pray tell, what's socialist about the bill? Please explain in detail because I would sincerely like to know. I am clearly misinformed and need to be educated.
well for starters...i'm a registered democrat. so thanks for that......

um...for starters....the bill will dictate what procedures physicians can and cannot perform on patients and what their pay will be.......specifically, the department of health and human services (the secretary or head of that department) will be determining that. if a doctor does a procedure that is not permitted according the D of HHS, then the doctor will be penalized and will not be reimbursed al, even if the procedure is by far superior to effectively treating the ailment/disease/whatever. thank g-d there is already a lawsuit lined up to sue obama, if this passes tomorrow

http://landmarklegal.org/uploads/Landmark Complaint (00013086-2).pdf

http://www.landmarklegal.org/DesktopDefault.aspx

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=128773
 

ApoK

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illegals dont have the right. and 40% of uninsured are uninsured by choice. socialized healthcare will bring down quality of health significantly while ultimately increasing costs. doctors will have to ration care, long waits will be the norm (like in canada), because of less time per patient, more wrong diagnoses....therefore higher costs. quality of health care goes down. the uninsured can already get quality health care for free. even the CEO of UCLA Medical Center says so. see the opinions of the CEOs/heads of the top hospitals in America....they're opinions are more credible:

http://www.examiner.com/x-7462-Atlanta-Faith--Family-Examiner~y2010m3d19-Leaders-from-UCLA-John-Hopkins-Cleveland-Clinic-Hospitals-express-views-on-Health-Care-Reform

this is a big area of concern for me as it dramatically affects my future....and it should concern everyone else, many of whom are clearly uninformed or lack the understanding of exactly what is going on with this supposed "health care reform"....sure there are problems with insurance companies...and coverage...and yes some of these issues need to be addressed...but not this way. wanna lower insurance costs? how about allowing insurance companies to compete by selling health insurance across state lines? there's a good start....and i love how the bill still fails to address medical malpractice/tort reform....which is one of the primary reasons medical costs are so high. i suppose none of you really realize the even an OB/GYN may pay between 125k-250K (yes, 250,000 dollars a year) for medical malpractice insurance. physicians can even afford to run a practice, after paying off 300K in debt and being yrs and yrs behind on making a salary like everyone else does....and trying to pay overhead, other salaries if in private practice, and trying to raise a family...just doesnt work out.
You need to take a look in the mirror. The opinions of CEOs are not credible sources of information.
 
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