Help choosing a school

[Sig Savant]

It wasn't freshman students that changed it either. I know its a group effort, but people like PADPM can do a lot more than us. We need to worry about school now and focus mainly on the present, while looking ahead. Our main efforts shouldn't be bettering the profession YET, we have to get there first.

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[air bud]

To each his own, but this issue is more related to caring about the future of the profession, not one's self. It wasn't too long ago that we didn't even have residencies, or hospital rights, etc. Furthermore, it wasn't self centered people with the "I can care less" mentality that changed things so you could have this luxury.

Really? I care that my future profession is full of well qualified, intelligent, thoughtful, caring people. Just because you got into pod school doesnt mean you are have those 4 qualities.

I don't have a selfish attitude. I often am tutoring fellow students. Of course, I believe in these people and am confident that they have what it takes to succeed. They have responded positively to my help, and I have also benefited from helping them. But they are still doing most of the leg work, I am just helping fill in the holes. I don't have the patience nor the time nor the inclination to help the people that do not put in the leg work upfront. Those are the people at the bottom of the class. Or they are putting in the legwork and still are not succeeding, in which case they need to find a new profession. That doesn't mean they are bad people by any stretch, just that they should think about something else.

 

[Sundarban1]

Really? I care that my future profession is full of well qualified, intelligent, thoughtful, caring people...

Then perhaps you should be on the admissions committee? Everyone who is getting an education in podiatry has the right to access adequate training, especially for their investment. These are not students failing out of school, these are well educated peers making their way through. Yes, they should have the right and opportunity to be trained. That's the way it's always been, and should be. You're arrogance and self-centered attitude will get you nowhere, especially with your peers. Furthermore, being at the top of your class makes you a shoe in for residency no more than standing in a garage makes you an automobile.

 

[Sundarban1]

It wasn't freshman students that changed it either. I know its a group effort, but people like PADPM can do a lot more than us. We need to worry about school now and focus mainly on the present, while looking ahead. Our main efforts shouldn't be bettering the profession YET, we have to get there first.

I won't put words in his mouth, but I can assure you PADPM would disagree with that statement. That's what student groups are for. We go to DC, as students, to help lobby for our profession. We're currently trying to get medicaid to recognize DPM's as physicians, as medicare does. We're almost there.

 

[air bud]

Everyone who is getting an education in podiatry has the right to access adequate training, especially for their investment. These are not students failing out of school, these are well educated peers making their way through.

Sorry, I don't buy it. If schools went by pass/fail then I might go with this argument. We have grades and percentages, and those have consequences. Not failing out of school should not be the default for getting a residency. Is there really that big of a difference between somebody who fails out of school with a 68 percent average and somebody who passes with a 71 percent average?

 

[Sundarban1]

Sorry, I don't buy it. If schools went by pass/fail then I might go with this argument. We have grades and percentages, and those have consequences. Not failing out of school should not be the default for getting a residency. Is there really that big of a difference between somebody who fails out of school with a 68 percent average and somebody who passes with a 71 percent average?

Again, failing out of school will not get you to residency. The students who are screwed in the end are students who made it through, just like you and me. Nothing like getting through 4 years of school only to be told there's not enough spots to train educated people. Our boards are pass/fail, its a standardized exam, so yes..if you can pass, you deserve to be trained.

 

[air bud]

Again, failing out of school will not get you to residency. The students who are screwed in the end are students who made it through, just like you and me. Nothing like getting through 4 years of school only to be told there's not enough spots to train educated people. Our boards are pass/fail, its a standardized exam, so yes..if you can pass, you deserve to be trained.

But that's not the world we live in now. Yes, hopefully we will get back to the point where everybody can get a residency (if they EARN it). There has to be a way to decide who gets the spots. Once again, grades have consequences. If student A and student B both pass the boards, but A has an 92 percent average and B has a 77 percent average and all else equal.....?

I believe in capitalism. It is not about finishing the race, its about trying to win the race.
To paraphrase Sean Connery from THE ROCK, "losers talk about giving it their best, winners go home and f*** the prom queen."

 

[janV88]

But that's not the world we live in now. Yes, hopefully we will get back to the point where everybody can get a residency (if they EARN it). There has to be a way to decide who gets the spots. Once again, grades have consequences. If student A and student B both pass the boards, but A has an 92 percent average and B has a 77 percent average and all else equal.....?

I believe in capitalism. It is not about finishing the race, its about trying to win the race.
To paraphrase Sean Connery from THE ROCK, "losers talk about giving it their best, winners go home and f*** the prom queen."

Doesn't passing mean you "earned it"? If not then the schools need to either 1) admit only quality candidates or 2) NBPME needs to become harder to pass.

 

[janV88]

BTW it looks like the APMA are taking the residency shortage very seriously. Check out this website: http://www.apma.org/Members/Education/CPMEAccreditation/Residencies/Help-line.aspx

There is a 24 HOUR helpline for anyone who wants info on starting up a residency.

 

[air bud]

no. it means you have established minimum competency. The top residencies don't want people who are minimally competent. They want the best. From there the slotting system begins. Since residencies<students, minimally competent doesnt cut it under the current situation.

 

[janV88]

no. it means you have established minimum competency. The top residencies don't want people who are minimally competent. They want the best. From there the slotting system begins. Since residencies<students, minimally competent doesnt cut it under the current situation.

Here lies the problem then. Where do you draw the line for "earning it"? And if you truly believe what you stated above then how can you say the following...

"Yes, hopefully we will get back to the point where everybody can get a residency (if they EARN it)."

The best means some get a residency and some dont. Getting the best would always require a situation where there are less spots than students. Everybody can't be the best.

 

[air bud]

Here lies the problem then. Where do you draw the line for "earning it"? And if you truly believe what you stated above then how can you say the following...

"Yes, hopefully we will get back to the point where everybody can get a residency (if they EARN it)."

The best means some get a residency and some dont. Getting the best would always require a situation where there are less spots than students. Everybody can't be the best.

I don't draw the line on what constitutes "earning it." We are all pawns in this game right now, and I am playing to win the game. Other people decide who has earned it. Someday, I might get to make that decision.
Listen, what I am saying is that right now, there is very little we can do as pod students besides play by the current rules. Yes, I do want to take an active role in this profession outside of my own practice. A lot of you on here have not worked in the real world before, and don't understand how things work. When you get done with residency and want to take an active, vocal role about changing how things work, great. But guess who people listen to first and take seriously? They listen and follow Joe Pod, who graduated near the top of his class, attended a good residency and who got published, board qualified/certified early. Guess where it all started?

You know why people listen to PADPM on here? Yeah, he is obviously very smart and good at what he does, but his resume saying ABPS this/that, Residency Director, Oral examiner.....makes people listen to him that much more. To the victor go the spoils.

 

[janV88]

I don't draw the line on what constitutes "earning it." We are all pawns in this game right now, and I am playing to win the game. Other people decide who has earned it. Someday, I might get to make that decision.
Listen, what I am saying is that right now, there is very little we can do as pod students besides play by the current rules. Yes, I do want to take an active role in this profession outside of my own practice. A lot of you on here have not worked in the real world before. When you get done with residency and want to work at changing how things work, great. But guess who people listen to first and take seriously? They listen and follow Joe Pod, who graduated near the top of his class, attended a good residency and who got published, board qualified/certified early. Guess where it all started?

You know why people listen to PADPM on here? Yeah, he is obviously very smart and good at what he does, but his resume saying ABPS this/that, Residency Director, Oral examiner.....makes people listen to him that much more. To the victor go the spoils.

air bud,

I agree with most of what you are saying and next year, when I matriculate, I plan on working my butt off to give myself the best possible chance at a top residency. As you said...hard work will pay off in the end.

Whining about the situation, as some might say, might get the attention of the APMA. Doing something might yield very little but doing nothing doesn't help at all. Maybe this is because I am a naive pre-pod on the sidelines but this is how I feel.

 

[Sundarban1]

no. it means you have established minimum competency. The top residencies don't want people who are minimally competent. They want the best. From there the slotting system begins. Since residencies<students, minimally competent doesnt cut it under the current situation.

Listen, it's no surprise that the best overall (academic and clinical) students get the top residencies. That will happen whether or not there are enough spots. However, were not talking about the minimally competent getting a top residency, we're talking about getting a residency at all!

Everyone who's made it that far deserves a chance to be trained, and it's the responsibility of the educational system to provide us that opportunity. If you think you're too busy now in school to be active, don't think it will get any easier once you get out of school. We're the ones with the issue of not having a residency, so we have to initiate the progress. This current progress didn't occur by students sitting on their ass saying, oh, someone will help, but it won't be me because I'm too busy. That's the attitude that got us here. Students did get in contact with residencies, APMA, local chapters, deans, etc. and said WTF! We have the resources, we just need people to get motivated. Nothing motivates you like giving up 200k to be told there aren't enough resources to train everyone.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

DMU and AZ have the best basic sciences. Barry or Temple seem to have the best clinics. Scholl is pretty well rounded.

In the end, it's a matter of picking where you feel you can work hard and focus on school. GL

I've heard from different directors that AZPOD students are terrible. Don't know if that's in clinics or basic sciences...

 

[Royal Rooters]

Is that really the best objective advice to offer people who are wondering how they should decide which school to attend? “I heard this about school X…Somebody at some other program told me this….Residency X doesn’t take students from school Y.”
It appears that no matter what accredited podiatry school somebody decides to attend that they are doomed to some combination of the following: A) receiving a sub-standard education, B) wearing a scarlet letter associated with attending “institution A” and thus being labeled a terrible student, C) becoming ill-prepared for residency, or D) possessing severely deficient clinical skills.
Air Bud is right when he says “hard work pays off in the end” and I believe that this particular sentiment is not mutually exclusive to any one, single podiatry school. You get out what you put in. This goes for all the schools, including the ones that unfortunately get knocked around a lot on SDN.
If you find that students from a particular school aren’t that impressive, then you probably just ran into a few unimpressive students. Every DPM, MD, DO, OD, PT, JD, (add your own professional acronym here) school has unimpressive students – it’s going to happen. As it turns out, not everybody is cut out for the type of training that professional schools (like podiatry) demand of their students, so they end up learning the hard way. Therefore, not everybody can finish at the top of the class – you’ll have a few great students, a lot of average students, and a few low quality students. Hence, the bell curve.
So how do you choose where to go to school? Don’t rely on second hand stories, or anecdotal evidence, or listen to what some disgruntled student said on SDN. Bottom line: you attend an accredited US podiatry school then you’re going to receive a quality education. It’s up to you the effort you want to put into utilizing the available to make the most your education. I think Feli said it best: “In the end, it's a matter of picking where you feel you can work hard and focus on school.”
Feel free to judge. I'm just a lowly pre-pod. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night

 

[FuturePod10]

Didnt think my OP was gonna turn into a pissing contest between worried future students and current students. If we can please get back to the original topic and discuss the different schools and help students cut through the crap and help figure out which school has what to offer.

 

[FootPro]

Didnt think my OP was gonna turn into a pissing contest between worried future students and current students. If we can please get back to the original topic and discuss the different schools and help students cut through the crap and help figure out which school has what to offer.

Yea alot of you pretty much ruin every controversial thread.

 

[165007]

Talked to a third Dean (who had just met about this topic with cpme people the other day) who had the exact same thing to say. Yes it appears there are going to be about 20 too many applicants assuming everyone passes this last part II session. This included EVERYBODY who was eligible for residency (meaning re-applicants). However, he said nothing indicates that all students will pass, some have yet to pass part I , and therefore expects to see spots go unfilled yet again. He then commented on the new programs that are on the verge of opening to meet the demands of the extra students just in case some of them do decide to start passing their boards.

3 schools, 3 deans, CPME, AACPM...all tell the same story. It's not one of fear and utter dismay like the two of you on this board make it out to be (the students at AZPOD sure didn't care since they have yet to not place somebody). I'm not criticizing anybody, just wanted to provide people with another opinion that actually uses some data and several more reliable sources to support it.

LOL

That is such bullsh*t and everyone knows it.
Last years shortage number was released to most or all to the schools' delegates.

I'll post it later if I remember.

 

[Brodiatrist]

Furthermore, being at the top of your class makes you a shoe in for residency no more than standing in a garage makes you an automobile.

Could not be more true. Temples #1 and #5 (or 9, I forgot) had to scramble last year. It's the all-round applicant that gets the goods, not just the academic scholar.

 

[templepodnc]

Furthermore, being at the top of your class makes you a shoe in for residency no more than standing in a garage makes you an automobile.

There is a lot that goes into matching at a program. You may be number 2 in your class and involved in clubs, etc. but if only rank 3 programs and those programs only take 2 students a year and they all rank you their 3rd or 4th choice you could easily go unmatched and have to scramble.

It's important to extern at the best programs possible but also be realistic at where you could match.

Bottom line, as the previous poster stated. Work on being an all around applicant, work hard and hope for the best.

 

[165007]

BACK AGAIN!

There were 22 grads that didnt match last year. There's going to be about 502 grads for class of 2010. Also, there's only 464 approved pms 24 and 36 programs.


I got these numbers from the APMSA representative.

 

[sorham]

Hey, What happens when they don't match, do they just have to wait a year and try again? Do people usually make it the second year?

 

[165007]

Hey, What happens when they don't match, do they just have to wait a year and try again? Do people usually make it the second year?

Yeah, I think most of them wait and try again.
I am not sure if most of them do make it the second year, but I think that depends on how many residency programs out there versus grads along with things like gpa, pass/fail boards etc.

 

[Brodiatrist]

Yeah, I think most of them wait and try again.
I am not sure if most of them do make it the second year, but I think that depends on how many residency programs out there versus grads along with things like gpa, pass/fail boards etc.

Exactly. However, your chances of matching the second time are drastically decreased. I recall reading the match statistics from the APMA website for re-applicants is somewhat daunting. They didn't give specific numbers, but I believe the wording was that they were at "a significant disadvantage" and unlikely to match again. That's why this is so frustrating.