Help! I think my PI is lying to me - should I inquire to HR myself??

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MelissaThompson

MelissaThompson

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I am right now working at a biology lab. I get paid roughly 30 hours a week (no benefits) - my PI recently told me that the university HR does not ALLOW him to support me at this salary any longer - and he MUST cut down to 25% of a full-time position (10 hours) or hire me full time with benefits. He stated that he does not have funding to upgrade me to full-time with benefits, So I have to take a 70% pay cut soon.

Do you guys believe this scenario? Can a university really tell a PI how to control their money like this?

I want to go to HR myself and speak to someone to find out the truth about my particular situation. Do you think it is too risky? If so - what would you do?


My main concern is whether the PI is lying to me or not. He may have decided to put his funding for my salary elsewhere - like buying a equipment, paying a higher wage for a better post-doc...etc etc - -- and then just use this as an excuse...
 
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MelissaThompson said:
I am right now working at a biology lab. I get paid roughly 30 hours a week (no benefits) - my PI recently told me that the university HR does not ALLOW him to support me at this salary any longer - and he MUST cut down to 25% of a full-time position (10 hours). So I am basically taking a 70% pay cut soon.

Do you guys believe this scenario? Can a university really tell a PI how to control their money like this?

I want to go to HR myself and speak to someone to find out the truth about my particular situation. Do you think it is too risky? If so - what would you do?
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The scenario is definitely seems possible. I don't see why he would be cutting you down in hours unless:
1) He thinks you aren't useful in the lab (for 30 hours a week)
2) He is forced to cut you down in hours
 
Josh7 said:
The scenario is definitely seems possible. I don't see why he would be cutting you down in hours unless:
1) He thinks you aren't useful in the lab (for 30 hours a week)
2) He is forced to cut you down in hours
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I am very useful in the lab and is busy all the time.

The problem is that the PI states to me that he DOES have funding to continue to support me at 30 hrs/week - but that the university does not allow him to do so!

Either upgrade me to full-time technician with all the benefits - or reduce it to 10 hours/week. This just sounds really sketchy to me!!
 
Hi Melissa :hello:

Simply go talk to HR. Word your questions well. I don't think anyone will get mad at you for asking.
 
La Presse said:
Hi Melissa :hello:

Simply go talk to HR. Word your questions well. I don't think anyone will get mad at you for asking.
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Thanks - my main concern is that the HR manager will relay this conversation to my boss - and then my PI would think that I don't trust him and be furious! My relationship with him would be ruined!
 
MelissaThompson said:
I am very useful in the lab and is busy all the time.

The problem is that the PI states to me that he DOES have funding to continue to support me at 30 hrs/week - but that the university does not allow him to do so!

Either upgrade me to full-time technician with all the benefits - or reduce it to 10 hours/week. This just sounds really sketchy to me!!
Click to expand...

You could ask the HR, but I wouldn't consider it as some sort of a conspiracy theory. Maybe the university needs some extra funds due to financial problems. :shrug: If you're interested, ask them and find out the reason, but don't set yourself in the spotlight.
 
Edit: Read your responses. Something definitely sounds off with your PI. Most departments/schools should be able to accommodate any number of part-time hours provided the funding is there.

An easy way to check on this without causing trouble is to just ask HR about part-time jobs. Don't mention your PI, your department, lab, etc. Just ask if there are limitations on the hours of part-time employees. If they say no, your PI is lying and might just be trying to save money while letting you down easy.
 
MelissaThompson said:
Thanks - my main concern is that the HR manager will relay this conversation to my boss - and then my PI would think that I don't trust him and be furious! My relationship with him would be ruined!
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Don't panic. Just ask the HR and find out for clarification. It's not a conspiracy theory, and I don't know why would the university plot something against you (unless you're notorious. :laugh:)
 
Bangersandmash said:
What the hell do you think HR will do exactly? Are you being funded through the department that gets its budget from the school? Or are you being funded from a grant your PI has? Has your school enacted budget cuts recently that may affect your department? There is a lot more info needed before we can determine if your PI is lying to you or not. In any event, I'd say your PI ultimately has control over your hours and whether or not you have a job. Even if he is lying to make it seem like it's not his fault, I doubt there is anything you could do to save your hours if the money isn't there. Talking to HR won't help unless he is firing you for discriminatory reasons.

Something sounds fishy in the way you (or your PI) has phrased the situation though. If the department can't afford your current hours (or full-time hours), why would he tell you he needs you to cut hours OR become full-time with benefits?
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The PI is paying me through his grants.

He claims that the university is telling him that he must either upgrade me to full-time technician or reduce me to 25% (10 hours/week).
 
Agent B said:
Don't panic. Just ask the HR and find out for clarification. It's not a conspiracy theory, and I don't know why would the university plot something against you (unless you're notorious. :laugh:)
Click to expand...


My main concern is whether the PI is lying to me or not. He may have decided to put his funding for my salary elsewhere - like buying a equipment, paying a higher wage for a better post-doc...etc etc - -- and then just use this as an excuse...
 
MelissaThompson said:
My main concern is whether the PI is lying to me or not. He may have decided to put his funding for my salary elsewhere - like buying a equipment, paying a higher wage for a better post-doc...etc etc - -- and then just use this as an excuse...
Click to expand...

And if he is what are you going to do? It would be a shame that he can't be frank with you about your job, but it is what it is in the end. If you find out from HR that he is lying, I would either accept the reduced workload and salary or quit the lab without making a fuss (especially if you need a rec letter from him). Calling him out on a lie won't do you any good.
 
I have to agree with bangersandmash. So what if he is lying to you? What are you going to do? If you call him out on it, he may take offense and if he is forced to continue to keep you on the same level of pay, you may have a miserable time and also not receive a good letter of recommendation. How does making a fuss about this bring you up ahead?
 
MelissaThompson said:
I am very useful in the lab and is busy all the time.

The problem is that the PI states to me that he DOES have funding to continue to support me at 30 hrs/week - but that the university does not allow him to do so!

Either upgrade me to full-time technician with all the benefits - or reduce it to 10 hours/week. This just sounds really sketchy to me!!
Click to expand...

Well, for what it's worth the lab that I work in has a similar policy. People either need to be employed as a full-time employee and work 40 hours per week or employed as a part-time employee and work no more than 32 hours per two week period (two weeks = 1 pay period). It isn't unheard of that they have labor policies/cut-offs.
 
erutha95 said:
Having dealt with similar (and in some cases, uglier and more complicated) situations in my lab, I am inclined to believe your PI.

Basically, what happens is the PI only has funding for 75% of a full-time employee without benefits, so they hire you on as an hourly temp. This is fine, but there have been big lawsuits over systematically denying workers benefits by classifying them as temps instead of full-time employees (most notably, a big class-action against Microsoft). Because of this, many universities have rules that after a certain period of time, usually around 6 months, a temp MUST be converted to a full-time employee with benefits (=more $$ from the budget), or else they have to either be fired or I guess in your case, reduced in hours so that they are actually doing temp-like work.
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Is your sample size for this explanation just your own university, or is this a documented thing among many universities? I know that at my university nothing like you just described is true. Part-time employees are part-time and they get paid based on what the boss says they have funding for. Admittedly, my sample size is only 1 itself.

erutha95 said:
Just to follow up, probably the most elegant and safe way to deal with the situation is to explain to your PI that you can't get by on 25% of full time pay, then find a new lab that actually has funding for a full-time position+benefits, and offer to continue volunteering at the old lab 10hr/week. That way you get paid a living wage, the old PI gets free labor, and you show interest and commitment while making a graceful transition to a new lab.
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I don't think you necessarily have to offer your volunteer services. If you simply explain that you need to pursue other opportunities because you can't take the pay cut, he should understand. Unless he is unreasonable and thinks his lab is the most important thing and can't fathom your decision (or he is pissed off that his lie didn't work), you can leave his lab amiably. Only you know your PI however.
 
If you're considering getting an LOR from this PI for med school apps, and if you think the HR people would contact him if you go to them, then if I were in your shoes, I'd just take the hour cut and move on. For me, getting into a good med school > getting paid more in a lab where I'm working temporarily.
 
MelissaThompson said:
I am very useful in the lab and is busy all the time.

The problem is that the PI states to me that he DOES have funding to continue to support me at 30 hrs/week - but that the university does not allow him to do so!

Either upgrade me to full-time technician with all the benefits - or reduce it to 10 hours/week. This just sounds really sketchy to me!!
Click to expand...

It's probably that if you work 30+ hours then you are legally required to be offered health insurance, and that is what the university doesn't have money for. They are allowed to do that, it happens to Americans every day. If a corporation doesn't want to pay for health insurance then they will just not let you work enough hours to be eligible for it. This is a real problem because corporations can just hire more workers on less hours and not pay anybody health insurance. This is another problem with current plans for universal healthcare. It will force corporations to do this.
 
An MD Hopeful said:
If you're considering getting an LOR from this PI for med school apps, and if you think the HR people would contact him if you go to them, then if I were in your shoes, I'd just take the hour cut and move on. For me, getting into a good med school > getting paid more in a lab where I'm working temporarily.
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Some of us need income though.
 
MelissaThompson said:
I am very useful in the lab and is busy all the time.

The problem is that the PI states to me that he DOES have funding to continue to support me at 30 hrs/week - but that the university does not allow him to do so!

Either upgrade me to full-time technician with all the benefits - or reduce it to 10 hours/week. This just sounds really sketchy to me!!
Click to expand...

Didn't you make a thread about your incompetencies in said lab a couple months ago?

Edit: Yup, you did. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=915871
 
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MedPR said:
Some of us need income though.
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True, of course. I didn't read the whole thread so I don't know the OP's economical situation...but if she really needs the money, then I'd suggest pursuing the matter further. But if money is not really an issue, then I don't think antagonizing with the PI is worth it so I'd just suggest taking the hour cut.

OP, if you really need the 30 hours of pay, then maybe before going to HR, you could talk to the PI about your economical situation asking him if there's anything he or you could do...maybe his response would give you more insight into whether or not he is telling you the truth.
 
MiracleforMD said:
Didn't you make a thread about your incompetencies in said lab a couple months ago?

Edit: Yup, you did. http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=915871
Click to expand...

Say what?

MelissaThompson said:
So I joined this cancer research lab 2 months ago and can't seem to get ANYTHING to work right. I have made NO progress in these 2 months!!

Here is where my problem is (for all you bio-experts):

1) Cloning:

I get a good digest, confirm DNA after purification from gel, and after ligation & transformation I get very few colonies, of which NONE contain the insert.

I went back and tried many different things - altering the ratio of vector:insert, minimize UV, give the cells a longer recovery step...etc etc...STILL just very few colonies!!


2) siRNA transfection:

I repeated it about 100 times now, the cells NEVER respond efficiently!! On the western, it shows 80-90% knockdown, but the cells just don't show it phenotypically!!!



Other lab members are having GREAT success with these 2 procedures - but I am looking like an idiot, lab meeting after lab meeting, saying "I'm STILL troubleshooting"...


My main concern is now: will my PI fire me in the next month or so if I still can't get this to work? I received training to go over the procedures ONCE, and since then I have been on my own! The other grad student doesn't really want to help me 🙁
Click to expand...
 
Ignoring all the sniping about your competency or lack thereof ---

It is 100% believable to me that the university will not fund you at this level. As was mentioned above, if you're being employed 30 hours a week, you're right on the cutoff where the university will be required to provide you benefits, even if you're getting health insurance etc through some other source. As for why they are unwilling to let you work just 28 hours a week to get around it, policies tend to be written at the top and applied broadly, with no exceptions made. Talk to HR; don't disrespect your PI - they're undoubtedly not the ones in charge of making this rule.

IF you have a good relationship with your PI, they may be able to pull some strings with you in HR so you can compromise on some number of hours between 10 and 30, but...
 
Bangersandmash said:
And if he is what are you going to do? It would be a shame that he can't be frank with you about your job, but it is what it is in the end. If you find out from HR that he is lying, I would either accept the reduced workload and salary or quit the lab without making a fuss (especially if you need a rec letter from him). Calling him out on a lie won't do you any good.
Click to expand...

If he is lying to her, she should not get a letter of recommendation from him. You have no idea why this is happening to her. If it is because of a problem he has with her, then there is the potential that this would be reflected on the letter of recommendation.
 
LOL

1. OP I hope this is NOT your real name... a sad case just happened with a poster using his real name on everything.. we don't want you anywhere near that path now... which brings me to my second point

2. I hope that is NOT your real picture WITH your real name

3. Your question should not be "is my PI lying to me?" but "WHAT CAN I DO?" --- two different trains of thought here.

4. Why can't you work full time? He said he can bump you up to full time + benefits. That sounds good to me. It is true that there are issues with having people work nearly full time without benefits... someone posted above.

5. For what it's worth, I don't believe your PI is lying. If he wanted to fire you, he would. If he ever reads your posts, he should.

if you can't stick with his lab, kindly ask him to refer you to a colleague and ask for a LOR now.
 
Great job, you other guys are so much better because you can clone and do transfections....it's like you being able to disimpact without much discomfort to a patient. Get over yourselves. albeit, i'd get rid of this thinking that "I'm VERY useful." get a reality check here and realize the analogy i just gave you. try and think of a different way to help.

Competence aside...Typically, paying at one end of a salary spectrum is easier -- either minimum wage or full time because the school helps. So in a grant, your salary would have to be named, and you'd get some salary with "fringe benefits." These fringe benefits often is what drives costs higher than expected since that includes health insurance, etc. Technically, your salary is all from the grant, but some amounts get recuperated from the school blah blah. Long story short: with a full time employee, the school will often help to pay for some of the salary. Minimum wage is typically paid too,but most of the time, many PIs try and get their departments to obtain federal work-study money allocated (typically in state universities) to pay for menial labor.

In this case, you're definitely doing technician work, just basic maintenance. You are important but not a driving force in the lab or a project... PIs can shift the money around but maybe at this time, he's having funding issues and is trying to cut down on salary costs. You're a casualty. You can just call in anonymously to ask about this situation if you feel uncomfortable. No need to really say what's going on with details.

And just as a note: right now is grant submission season. December 31 is a typical ending date of some grants. So PIs are busy to write and submit new grants, feeling very pressured, and generally have short tempers with no time to spare. The next round is up around Feb, so you just have to bite the bullet here.

worst note of all: all science salaries are being paid by taxpayer/government money that's meant for research with insignificant aid from your school. that's what's messed up with NIH funding and schools. So a PI gets ~$200,000-$300,000 R01 grants...about 70% is gone to people. and that doesn't even cover most of the PI or any faculty level's salary so there has to be more compensatory grants....which then is a never ending cycle of how-many-grants-can-I-get-my-name-on? go to a private school, and they'll help you 0%. Maybe 30% at most. Rest is up to you. Now do you understand why someone might be worried about paying...with benefits?
 
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When I was working in my lab as an undergrad, I worked about 40 hours a week during the summer. About two weeks in, my PI called me into his office and told me that he couldn't afford to have me work full time AND give me benefits, like the rules say he has to do. So he absolutely had to bump me to part time. Part time meant less than 30 hours, so I ended up working ~6 hour days. Does it matter that he has the funding to pay me full time + benefits? No, cause he doesn't want to pay me that much for work I do in far less hours. 10 hours is a little harsh, and I think your PI is twisting the truth so he can pay you less/hire someone else/get you out of his hair.

Don't bother talking to HR, it's not going to help you in the slightest. Best thing to do in this case is smile, say thank you for the opportunity to work there, get your LOR, and find a new job (or an additional one that DOES pay the bills).
 
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MelissaThompson said:
I am very useful in the lab and is busy all the time.

The problem is that the PI states to me that he DOES have funding to continue to support me at 30 hrs/week - but that the university does not allow him to do so!

Either upgrade me to full-time technician with all the benefits - or reduce it to 10 hours/week. This just sounds really sketchy to me!!
Click to expand...

This seems pretty legit, at least from my experience. A lot of times places don't hire people full time because it is expensive to pay for their benefits and stuffs, which is required by law. I guess you could ask, but you take the risk of looking bad to your PI. Just think about that too.
 
smh @ the people saying stuff like "sleep with him."

OP - True or not, it comes down to whether you want to continue at the lab. Even if the PI is lying to you, does that change anything? You either work less hours or you move on. You could always have someone call HR anonymously if you are adamant about finding out the truth.
 
Very possible that he has to cut your hours, though cutting to 10hr/week seems pretty low. I think we had a 20hr/week limit for part-time jobs at my university. I ran into a similar problem with my PI when he couldn't afford to pay the benefits that came along with a full-time position (they are $$$). You might have outlasted the temporary amount of time that you can work 30+ hr/week without needing benefits, and your university might have a limit on the hours for a part-time position. The latter is something you can ask HR.
 
who remembers a thread made 6 months ago...
 
Bangersandmash said:
I remember every post I've ever made, in addition to many other member's posts. It is important to keep tabs on your competition.
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I too remember every post I've ever made.
 
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