Help with handling my MD co-workers telling me not to go to DO school

[futuremd2125]

Future DO student here and I currently work at a T5 US MD school as a researcher. For background, my PI and the other researchers I work with all went to T10 MD schools. A few months ago I told them I was applying this cycle to MD and DO schools. While I have not heard back from any MD schools, I have been accepted to several DO schools. But, when I told my PI and the other researchers this, they act like I haven't gotten into medical school and that I shouldn't be proud of getting accepted/going to a DO school. They have even voiced their concern about me going to a DO school, to the point where my PI even said that they know I will be a great physician someday and that I should turn down my DO acceptances and try to reapply next cycle to get into an MD school.

While I am beyond excited to go to a DO medical school and become a physician, their opinions make me second guess myself and just overall feel less excited/proud. They keep warning me about how I could not match into a residency and that I will lack the research/LOR required to get into a "good" residency program. But, I have no interest in going into academic medicine or being a future researcher.

I'm not really sure what I am asking, but I guess does the prestige of a residency program really matter? Also, how can I best deal with other doctors or people who act like going to a DO school makes you "less" of a doctor?

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[ontiquicuo]

You can ignore them. There is little to gain by debating them.

 

[Goro]

By telling you to turn down an acceptance, which is your only accepted so far, they are actively trying to sabotage your medical career due to ignorance. Ignore them, and don't talk about this anymore with them.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

@Goro is right as always. Most DOs are in primary care. FM, IM, Peds, OB, etc. Most DOs and MDs are involved in direct patient care, not research.. Your lab buddies might be shocked that many people go into medicine to do primary care and actually take care of people.So it depends on where your interests lie. Unless you are interested in something outside of primary care, you will be fine. Having said that, I have students in Gas, Rads, Derm, Ortho, Uni IM, Gen Surg, Ortho, CT Surgery, OB, and all the primary care specialties. Matching more competitive specialties will require an excellent app, LORs and research.Good luck and best wishes!

 

[Ho0v-man]

DO school sucks because of lack of research/connections, etc.

Sounds like you already have that stuff so nbd.

It’s unlikely that coming from a DO school you’ll be training at the same places as your colleagues. So you have to be comfortable with that. If you want to be doing their job, which sounds like an academic/research-oriented position at a top medical institution, then the DO degree will likely be a hindrance.

It’s very likely that they have a different definition of “good” residency program. At that level, if it’s not an Ivy League name every layperson knows, it’s likely not a “good” program.

Prestige of a residency program matters to the extent of how it sets you up for fellowship. It matters a lot in IM for example.

You’ll see countless people say on here that after you match of IRL no one cares about the letters after your name. That is true 99% of the time. This is that 1% exception. You can still pursue a career in academia at respectable academic centers though.

If you want to go into medicine to just be a doctor and make a difference in a community, then it really doesn’t matter.

 

[Kardio]

For better or worse, this is a part of the culture of medicine. These same folks would likely be similarly unimpressed by a low tier MD acceptance. Some just ‘draw the line’ at DO school.

Like others have already said, to them it’s probably more about academic clout than clinical medicine; they are projecting their own values and priorities onto you. In their own minds, I would imagine, they are looking out for your best interests.

 

[Proudfather94]

Future DO student here and I currently work at a T5 US MD school as a researcher. For background, my PI and the other researchers I work with all went to T10 MD schools. A few months ago I told them I was applying this cycle to MD and DO schools. While I have not heard back from any MD schools, I have been accepted to several DO schools. But, when I told my PI and the other researchers this, they act like I haven't gotten into medical school and that I shouldn't be proud of getting accepted/going to a DO school. They have even voiced their concern about me going to a DO school, to the point where my PI even said that they know I will be a great physician someday and that I should turn down my DO acceptances and try to reapply next cycle to get into an MD school.

While I am beyond excited to go to a DO medical school and become a physician, their opinions make me second guess myself and just overall feel less excited/proud. They keep warning me about how I could not match into a residency and that I will lack the research/LOR required to get into a "good" residency program. But, I have no interest in going into academic medicine or being a future researcher.

I'm not really sure what I am asking, but I guess does the prestige of a residency program really matter? Also, how can I best deal with other doctors or people who act like going to a DO school makes you "less" of a doctor?

What do you want to do as a doctor? If you want to do optho or neurosurg or get a residency at a top academic program that would be very hard as a DO. If you want to work in the community some of the competitive residencies may be harder to get but still very possible. Everything else is the same besides learning OMM.

 

[paradoxic_toxic]

Also, how can I best deal with other doctors or people who act like going to a DO school makes you "less" of a doctor?

You deal with it by becoming a full fledged attending DO

 

[Whysoez]

I'm not really sure what I am asking, but I guess does the prestige of a residency program really matter? Also, how can I best deal with other doctors or people who act like going to a DO school makes you "less" of a doctor?

You don't deal with them, you ignore them and walk away.

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

I know of several DO program directors and academic researchers at MD institutions including at some big name places like Case etc. ignore them and move on.
P.S I am quite frankly surprised and appalled at some people's ignorance of how competitive it is to get into any medical school(DO or MD) nowadays with the current economy. ANY medical school acceptance is amazing in my books. Congratulations future doctor.

 

[Bwesternn]

When I was in high school, my group of friends at the time used to try to convince me to try cocaine. They would go on and on about how other drugs were far worse, blah blah blah. When I talked to my mom about the subject, she took one look at me, said "time to find new friends," and walked the other way. Great advice I heeded.

While I'd like to say to you "time to find new coworkers," I understand that's not realistic. What is realistic though is how you choose to perceive their ignorance. In one ear and out the other. Congrats future doctor!

 

[Sleepingdoc]

@Goro is right as always. Most DOs are in primary care. FM, IM, Peds, OB, etc. Most DOs and MDs are involved in direct patient care, not research.. Your lab buddies might be shocked that many people go into medicine to do primary care and actually take care of people.So it depends on where your interests lie. Unless you are interested in something outside of primary care, you will be fine. Having said that, I have students in Gas, Rads, Derm, Ortho, Uni IM, Gen Surg, Ortho, CT Surgery, OB, and all the primary care specialties. Matching more competitive specialties will require an excellent app, LORs and research.Good luck and best wishes!

A lot of MD's go into primary care, FM, IM, Pedes.... Not sure how MD= Rads, Derm ortho came from. I have a lot of DO friends doing "competitive specialty". But anyways, if you are excited about being a DO, who cares what other people think. Students who come from Caribbean get MD's too, so i am not sure how valuable the two letter's, MD is in comparison to DO's.

 

[goneriding]

I worked in research at a prestigious place prior to medical school. I got into a DO school fairly late in the application season in May and told my PI I was taking it as I just wanted to be a doctor. She told me I was 'throwing my career away', and then tried to convince me to stay one more year and then they would make something happen for me. If you got into DO school, you probably are a half decent RA/clinical coordinator/etc, and it sucks for them and their research pipeline to lose you. They'll say anything to get you to stay.

I'm an ortho resident now. You know how many patients care that I'm a DO when they are sitting in the ED with an open fracture/compartment syndrome/etc?

 

[DO2015CA]

For better or worse, this is a part of the culture of medicine. These same folks would likely be similarly unimpressed by a low tier MD acceptance. Some just ‘draw the line’ at DO school.

Like others have already said, to them it’s probably more about academic clout than clinical medicine; they are projecting their own values and priorities onto you. In their own minds, I would imagine, they are looking out for your best interests.

This attitude is always for worse. Never for better.

 

[Dr Meow]

It's a different world now. The competition is through the roof. A DO now has the stats of a MD 10 years ago. And a MD older than that had an even easier shot. And then those MD's would tell you "JuSt GeT a MD. D0n'T GeT DO"

 

[Angus Avagadro]

It's a different world now. The competition is through the roof. A DO now has the stats of a MD 10 years ago. And a MD older than that had an even easier shot. And then those MD's would tell you "JuSt GeT a MD. D0n'T GeT DO"

None of that is relevant. The game is different for sure, but it still is the only game in town. Play or going home. People didn't develop amazing academic skills or super high IQ's over the last couple of decades. Todays doctors developed an app that was required for admission when they were in undergrad. Students just play the game better now because they have to. Doctors have always been highly intelligent and function at a high level. Some are scary smart. Most scary smart people are in hard science like engineering and quantum theory research. Believing most doctors today couldn't get into med school is a fools errand. They would merely do what you are doing to play the game well.

 

[thumbz]

None of that is relevant. The game is different for sure, but it still is the only game in town. Play or going home. People didn't develop amazing academic skills or super high IQ's over the last couple of decades. Todays doctors developed an app that was required for admission when they were in undergrad. Students just play the game better now because they have to. Doctors have always been highly intelligent and function at a high level. Some are scary smart. Most scary smart people are in hard science like engineering and quantum theory research. Believing most doctors today couldn't get into med school is a fools errand. They would merely do what you are doing to play the game well.

This is spot on. Same thing with boards. Step 1/2 averages kept climbing and climbing. Med students aren't smarter, but the study materials have gotten infinitely better. And access to information is so much easier - gone are the days of grabbing Harrison's, going to the index and finding your topic. Now I can learn a comprehensive review of something on UptoDate with a couple key strokes.

But! To the OP - don't worry about what they think. Want to hear some irony? I know an MD who is location tied who wants to do med school education. The only shop in town is a DO school. He's running into issues with how high he can climb the ladder there because of his MD credentials, had he been a DO with all the other stuff on his CV he would be a dean.

From COCA:

Element 2.1: Dean Qualifications (CORE)
A COM must have a dean who is qualified for the position by education, training, and experience to provide effective leadership in education, scholarly activity, and patient care. The dean must have:

1. An earned DO degree from a COCA-accredited college of osteopathic medicine;
2. An unrestricted medical license at some time in his/her career, free of disciplinary actions or sanctions while licensed;
3. AOA OR ABMS board certification at some time in his/her career; and
4. At least five years of proven experience within the last ten years in academic leadership roles that includes budget management authority

 

[Mad Jack]

Future DO student here and I currently work at a T5 US MD school as a researcher. For background, my PI and the other researchers I work with all went to T10 MD schools. A few months ago I told them I was applying this cycle to MD and DO schools. While I have not heard back from any MD schools, I have been accepted to several DO schools. But, when I told my PI and the other researchers this, they act like I haven't gotten into medical school and that I shouldn't be proud of getting accepted/going to a DO school. They have even voiced their concern about me going to a DO school, to the point where my PI even said that they know I will be a great physician someday and that I should turn down my DO acceptances and try to reapply next cycle to get into an MD school.

While I am beyond excited to go to a DO medical school and become a physician, their opinions make me second guess myself and just overall feel less excited/proud. They keep warning me about how I could not match into a residency and that I will lack the research/LOR required to get into a "good" residency program. But, I have no interest in going into academic medicine or being a future researcher.

I'm not really sure what I am asking, but I guess does the prestige of a residency program really matter? Also, how can I best deal with other doctors or people who act like going to a DO school makes you "less" of a doctor?

Being a DO will limit your field and residency options, but you know what will limit them even more? Not being a doctor at all because you walked away from a bunch of DO acceptances just to chase the potential of being a MD. I went to a DO school and a fairly unknown program in my field and I'm viewed extremely positively by my peers and the medical directors I work with. Where I went to school comes up so infrequently that many are shocked to find out I am a DO, as they just assumed I was a MD. One place I work even somehow has me labeled MD in all the EMRs despite there being multiple DOs in the institution from my medical school, but they're just too lazy to change it because whatever, it's all doctor to them and only other providers in the system see the label. The only people I've ever encountered that found my credentials to be an issue were exactly the sort of people I wouldn't want as patients or coworkers anyway, generally they're prestige-obsessed or narcissistic individuals that only want to associate with shiny credentials to gratify their own egos.

The best way to deal with these people is to ignore them and just not discuss going to medical school with them, honestly. You won't change their mind by any path except action. When you bump into them in a few years at a conference, you can tell them about how nice your path worked out and you can all have a laugh about how silly the idea that you needed to be a MD to be successful was.

 

[Mad Jack]

A lot of MD's go into primary care, FM, IM, Pedes.... Not sure how MD= Rads, Derm ortho came from. I have a lot of DO friends doing "competitive specialty". But anyways, if you are excited about being a DO, who cares what other people think. Students who come from Caribbean get MD's too, so i am not sure how valuable the two letter's, MD is in comparison to DO's.

It's harder to go down the competitive specialty paths, sometimes enormously so. A below average student at Harvard can land derm, while a DO will have to be exceptional in every way to even get looked at. There's a lot of stripes of competitiveness in between those two extremes, but generally as a DO you'll be considered below a bottom tier MD with regard to competitiveness, if only slightly so in many fields. That's just reality. Best that applicants understand that before they get on board, lest they become self-hating DOs that bitterly go into primary care while wishing they had been orthopedic surgeons. They might not have gone into ortho even had they been a MD, but they'll always blame the letters after their name

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

It's harder to go down the competitive specialty paths, sometimes enormously so. A below average student at Harvard can land derm, while a DO will have to be exceptional in every way to even get looked at. There's a lot of stripes of competitiveness in between those two extremes, but generally as a DO you'll be considered below a bottom tier MD with regard to competitiveness, if only slightly so in many fields. That's just reality. Best that applicants understand that before they get on board, lest they become self-hating DOs that bitterly go into primary care while wishing they had been orthopedic surgeons. They might not have gone into ortho even had they been a MD, but they'll always blame the letters after their name

I agree with a lot of this but I don't think matching competitive specialties is as daunting as a DO as people make it out to be, this maybe because of former aoa programs that still mostly only take DO's but I have seen more traditional acgme programs in competitive specialties taking DO's over the years. Those people I know that matched into competitive stuff in former aoa or traditional MD programs were good students and had good extracurriculars but they weren't anything over the top exceptional in anyway. I don't mean that in a negative way but it's not like they had to cure cancer or anything or have like 30 publications, their apps more or less looked like that of an MD app. For former aoa in competitive stuff they take DO's on scores and the audition.

 

[Sixen]

A lot of MD's go into primary care, FM, IM, Pedes.... Not sure how MD= Rads, Derm ortho came from. I have a lot of DO friends doing "competitive specialty". But anyways, if you are excited about being a DO, who cares what other people think. Students who come from Caribbean get MD's too, so i am not sure how valuable the two letter's, MD is in comparison to DO's.

It’s funny. it’s some weird thing everyone says on this forum. If you look at NRMP… majority of all physicians are FM/IM. And regardless if you are an MD or a DO, if your application is trash and you can’t score well on step, then you’re not going to match any competitive speciality lol. Competitive specialties are competitive for everyone.

 

[wook]

DO vs MD has little bearing. Most specialties and sub-specialties have DOs in them. As several have pointed out the limiting factor is YOUR performance during your education and training. I can only think of one or two specialties that still have the antiquated thought process that MD or DO is better than the other.

As most have pointed out, if you want to go into medicine, get into medical school. DO or MD is almost irrelevant. Once in, you must apply yourself to optimize your chances of getting into the specialty you want.


Thanks.


Wook

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

DO vs MD has little bearing. Most specialties and sub-specialties have DOs in them. As several have pointed out the limiting factor is YOUR performance during your education and training. I can only think of one or two specialties that still have the antiquated thought process that MD or DO is better than the other.

As most have pointed out, if you want to go into medicine, get into medical school. DO or MD is almost irrelevant. Once in, you must apply yourself to optimize your chances of getting into the specialty you want.


Thanks.


Wook

I think it's mostly getting there... there is an inherent advantage to MD due to better resources but DO students can seek opportunities(like research years) look for clinical mentors to guide them in competitive specialties (like MD students). I think it's mostly on the student ultimately.

 

[Dr Meow]

Go MD and if you can't, go DO.
If that fails, work at McDonalds.

 

[deleted1129181]

There are 6,000 hospitals and clinics in the united states, ranging from VA's, government, community, rural, to huge academic centers. Doctors work in research labs, pharmaceutical companies, for the FBI, on reality TV, and much more. Diversity in the medical community is huge. There are some doctors, such as your PI, who have been surrounded by prestigious glamor their entire career so they don't realize that there is a medical world that exists beyond the borders of their prestigious medical center. People who live in mansions their whole lives don't appreciate middle class homes.