Applying to DO schools after failing out of US MD school with competetive stats

[OMMKing]

OP- I withdrew from a DO school after failing multiple courses in 1st year. Retook the MCAT and did a masters program after withdrawal. I got 4 DO II's last cycle after re-applying really late in the cycle, WL on 1 and R on 3 for last cycle; now have 1 MD II this cycle

It's an uphill battle, and many schools may not consider you, but there's still definitely a chance.

If you look at AACOMAS stats, there are numbers given for prior matriculants of US MD and US DO. I don't have them in front of me but I wanna say there were like 40 of us in a recent year and 11 were accepted

Feel free to PM me!

Would you mind sharing stats? PM'd you. I'm in the same boat but failed only one class, currently sitting on two interviews.

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[StressedBiClown]

Don’t let anyone on this thread tell you to give up! The next logical step is DO school. Grading is done on a curve and based on average USMLE scores, an MD should score a standard deviation (1 letter grade) higher in all his/her DO classes. This is a statistical fact. Not to mention the relief you will feel when you no longer are struggling at the bottom of your class.
All the best.

None of my DO classes are curved. What do you mean?

 

[Poonknight]

This is the truth OP. Anyone who tells you that you won't get into ANY DO school with a 3.7 and 512 is misguided. Half of my class had MCATs in the 490s and some DO schools can't fill their class. The real issue here is not admissions but making sure you can get through school.

If DO schools couldn’t fill their classes, people wouldn’t be going Caribbean. Only people with that low of MCATs that are getting in either have something else very impressive going for them or are coming from an underprivileged background.

I applied for two years without a single interview with a 513 and a 3.0 GPA as a nontrad engineering student coming from a top 5 engineering school in the country. Two years. Zero interviews. I had to do a linked postbacc to get in through that, no one ever gave me an interview even. I had to beat out about 200 kids for spots in a postbacc, I did, and I’ve crushed it in med school since. That’s your best shot, a postbacc. All you’ve proven so far is that you couldn’t get it done which is way more important than two numbers from your undergrad and on an exam with mostly info you’ll never use again.

Think of it this way from a med school perspective. There’s thousands of kids who would kill to get into medical school, and most of them would get through and pass everything without much issue. What makes you so special that you get to take one of their spots after you’ve had chance(s) and for whatever reason couldn’t even pass? What makes you so irreplaceable that they should give you yet another chance?

Thinking further ahead, if you look at residency programs, a single failed board exam is basically an auto-reject from probably like 95% of programs. As much as we all like to think things are “holistic,” the bottom line is you have to be able to pass your classes and exams. Schools and residencies very rarely give af about any sob stories or comebacks. They care about racial diversity, research, and not having to worry about losing money because one of their students couldn’t pass their classes or board exams.

 

[deleted1079620]

Don’t let anyone on this thread tell you to give up! The next logical step is DO school. Grading is done on a curve and based on average USMLE scores, an MD should score a standard deviation (1 letter grade) higher in all his/her DO classes. This is a statistical fact. Not to mention the relief you will feel when you no longer are struggling at the bottom of your class.
All the best.

Where are you getting this information? I go to a DO school…our grades are not curved, and not even pass/fail.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

None of my DO classes are curved. What do you mean?

Yeah, I’m looking around for this mythical unicorn 🦄 of a curve too. If you see it, let me know.

 

[StressedBiClown]

Yeah, I’m looking around for this mythical unicorn 🦄 of a curve too. If you see it, let me know.

Let the unicorn hunt begin.

 

[Goro]

Don’t let anyone on this thread tell you to give up! The next logical step is DO school. Grading is done on a curve and based on average USMLE scores, an MD should score a standard deviation (1 letter grade) higher in all his/her DO classes. This is a statistical fact. Not to mention the relief you will feel when you no longer are struggling at the bottom of your class.
All the best.

I strongly suggest that you read the OPs post history, and then revise your opinion.

My school sure as hell doesnt grade on a curve

You are doing no one any good with the Rah Rah you can do it! mentality. Like it or not, people come here for realistic advice

 

[Dr Meow]

Yeah, I’m looking around for this mythical unicorn 🦄 of a curve too. If you see it, let me know.

I found the unicorn

 

[Goro]

I found the unicorn

Can you elaborate???

 

[Osminog]

some DO schools can't fill their class.

Which ones? This is big news. I’d like to know which schools you’re going talking about. I’ll pass the list along to the applicants I advise who haven’t been able to get accepted into any DO schools cycle after cycle.

 

[Osminog]

Don’t let anyone on this thread tell you to give up! The next logical step is DO school. Grading is done on a curve and based on average USMLE scores, an MD should score a standard deviation (1 letter grade) higher in all his/her DO classes. This is a statistical fact. Not to mention the relief you will feel when you no longer are struggling at the bottom of your class.
All the best.

This post is wildly incorrect on so many levels that it could easily be read as satire.

 

[Mad Jack]

You could consider MD/DO adjacent fields like PA, pharmacy, PT, etc. You might get away with not disclosing your 2 years at med school at all or could try to spin it as you realized becoming a physician wasn't for you

Finding out about dishonesty in the application process would result in a ban from AACOMAS and reporting to all of the schools to which you applied. It is almost certain that at least one school would look into your financial aid history or check the National Student Clearinghouse for prior records. There's also the aspect of lying about what you were doing for the better part of two years and making it work in your narrative

 

[Mad Jack]

Don’t let anyone on this thread tell you to give up! The next logical step is DO school. Grading is done on a curve and based on average USMLE scores, an MD should score a standard deviation (1 letter grade) higher in all his/her DO classes. This is a statistical fact. Not to mention the relief you will feel when you no longer are struggling at the bottom of your class.
All the best.

Grades certainly weren't curved at my school. Not only that but they were competency based, and you could be failed on an exam for missing any one of the questions related to what faculty arbitrarily deemed to be critical concepts, which comprised around half of each exam. Grades were never curved and a failure was a failure. Prior to ending scored Step 1, the average matched DO student had a 227, while the average matched US MD had a 233, with recent standard deviations of the exam being between 18-22. Given that the match rate only differs by around 3% between the two, it isn't like piles of DOs are going unmatched that would bring that average down. To state that the performance of the average DO is a standard deviation below the average MD is blatantly false.

 

[Wokemon]

Finding out about dishonesty in the application process would result in a ban from AACOMAS and reporting to all of the schools to which you applied. It is almost certain that at least one school would look into your financial aid history or check the National Student Clearinghouse for prior records. There's also the aspect of lying about what you were doing for the better part of two years and making it work in your narrative

Upon re-reading my previous comment, I see that it was very poorly worded and might have led to some people misunderstanding what I was trying to convey to OP.

I don't think OP has much of a chance, realistically speaking, at any MD/DO programs due to his dismissal from a MD program on account of his poor academic performance in it. Therefore, I was attempting to steer him toward MD/DO-adjacent professions such as pharmacy, PT, etc. It is my view that with enough time and careful effort, OP might be able to gain acceptance to a pharmacy/PT school because one or both of the following things could happen: 1) He might be able to adequately demonstrate his interest in the new field of study and his capacity to handle its curriculum 2) The application process to a program in the new field of study might simply not ask him about the time period when his misadventures in med school occurred. It might never come up at any stage of the process and he might never have to address that period in his life. The process might focus on different things such as his undergraduate record, GRE/PCAT scores, exposure to the new field of study, letters from pharmacists/ physical therapists, etc. That's what I meant when I wrote, "You could consider MD/DO adjacent fields like PA, pharmacy, PT, etc. You might get away with not disclosing your 2 years at med school at all or could try to spin it as you realized becoming a physician wasn't for you."

I wasn't ever suggesting that OP waste time and effort on re-applying to any MD/DO schools or lie on his AMCAS or AACOMAS.

OP, if you are reading this, do not lie on any future applications. If you decide to pivot to a medicine-adjacent field, be sure to invest enough time and effort to build a strong candidacy to gain acceptance into the new field, remedy the underlying problems that led to your dismissal from the MD program, and learn everything you can about the application processes in the new fields of study. Best of luck!

 

[doc111111]

Sarcasm doesn't travel well over the electrons

pharmacy school is not easy and alot of jobs want you to take a residency. consider that and decide what uou want before deciding. you seem unsure good luck

 

[PhD_to_DO]

I found the unicorn

Where?

 

[PirellitTyres]

Upon re-reading my previous comment, I see that it was very poorly worded and might have led to some people misunderstanding what I was trying to convey to OP.

I don't think OP has much of a chance, realistically speaking, at any MD/DO programs due to his dismissal from a MD program on account of his poor academic performance in it. Therefore, I was attempting to steer him toward MD/DO-adjacent professions such as pharmacy, PT, etc. It is my view that with enough time and careful effort, OP might be able to gain acceptance to a pharmacy/PT school because one or both of the following things could happen: 1) He might be able to adequately demonstrate his interest in the new field of study and his capacity to handle its curriculum 2) The application process to a program in the new field of study might simply not ask him about the time period when his misadventures in med school occurred. It might never come up at any stage of the process and he might never have to address that period in his life. The process might focus on different things such as his undergraduate record, GRE/PCAT scores, exposure to the new field of study, letters from pharmacists/ physical therapists, etc. That's what I meant when I wrote, "You could consider MD/DO adjacent fields like PA, pharmacy, PT, etc. You might get away with not disclosing your 2 years at med school at all or could try to spin it as you realized becoming a physician wasn't for you."

I wasn't ever suggesting that OP waste time and effort on re-applying to any MD/DO schools or lie on his AMCAS or AACOMAS.

OP, if you are reading this, do not lie on any future applications. If you decide to pivot to a medicine-adjacent field, be sure to invest enough time and effort to build a strong candidacy to gain acceptance into the new field, remedy the underlying problems that led to your dismissal from the MD program, and learn everything you can about the application processes in the new fields of study. Best of luck!

Should I immediately apply to pharmacy school, or do you still think I need to wait/get some experience. I'm about to start working as a pharm tech at CVS for some experience, but I was going to apply to the next cycle, since the pharm school I'm interested in had a 77% acceptance rate last year, an average GPA of 3.1, and doesn't even care if I take the PCAT or not.

 

[Spiceupyourlife]

Honestly, it seems like you're just bouncing around until you get the "doctor" title. (I hope you're not). I'm all for perseverance and I normally encourage people to keep going and fighting, but there's a time when you have to take a step back, breathe, and let reality sit in.

Also, remember just because you get into a program, doesn't mean you'll stay in school. (Look at your history with med school). I have plenty of friends (GREAT students in undergrad) who are pharmacists now, but struggled with the PCAT and the curriculum. Some didn't match or had scramble. Then trying to find a job that didn't suck the life out of them. One of my best friends, brilliant student and person, had anxiety attacks every time she got to work until she finally left to teach pharmacy students instead (she's beyond happy now). Becoming and being a pharmacist is not a walk in the park.

 

[Wokemon]

Should I immediately apply to pharmacy school, or do you still think I need to wait/get some experience. I'm about to start working as a pharm tech at CVS for some experience, but I was going to apply to the next cycle, since the pharm school I'm interested in had a 77% acceptance rate last year, an average GPA of 3.1, and doesn't even care if I take the PCAT or not.

If I were in your shoes, I would do two things before rushing to apply to pharmacy (or any other professional) schools. 1) I would try to figure out what issues led to my dismissal from MD school and then come up with a concrete plan of action to remedy those issues. 2) I would try to learn everything I can about pharmacy as a profession, the training required, the application processes at various pharmacy schools, etc. Based on that info, I would try to carefully build the strongest possible candidacy for acceptance to pharmacy schools over the coming months/years. You will need to put in the work to adequately convince pharmacy schools that your interest in pharmacy is genuine and that you have successfully overcome the issues that derailed you in med school.

Ultimately, your goal shouldn't just be getting into a pharmacy school. It should be to get into a pharmacy school AND have the skills to succeed in pharmacy school. I don't know how long it will take you to be that position, but it won't happen overnight. And it will take a lot of thought, efforts, and research.

 

[doc111111]

If I were in your shoes, I would do two things before rushing to apply to pharmacy (or any other professional) schools. 1) I would try to figure out what issues led to my dismissal from MD school and then come up with a concrete plan of action to remedy those issues. 2) I would try to learn everything I can about pharmacy as a profession, the training required, the application processes at various pharmacy schools, etc. Based on that info, I would try to carefully build the strongest possible candidacy for acceptance to pharmacy schools over the coming months/years. You will need to put in the work to adequately convince pharmacy schools that your interest in pharmacy is genuine and that you have successfully overcome the issues that derailed you in med school.

Ultimately, your goal shouldn't just be getting into a pharmacy school. It should be to get into a pharmacy school AND have the skills to succeed in pharmacy school. I don't know how long it will take you to be that position, but it won't happen overnight. And it will take a lot of thought, efforts, and research.

being a pharmacist is hard but your chance of admission would increase if u work as a pharmacy tech. that way when you will know if you like it and w
the places you apply to might feel you know what it is. i would suggest pharmacy is rough be sure you want it

 

[PirellitTyres]

If I were in your shoes, I would do two things before rushing to apply to pharmacy (or any other professional) schools. 1) I would try to figure out what issues led to my dismissal from MD school and then come up with a concrete plan of action to remedy those issues. 2) I would try to learn everything I can about pharmacy as a profession, the training required, the application processes at various pharmacy schools, etc. Based on that info, I would try to carefully build the strongest possible candidacy for acceptance to pharmacy schools over the coming months/years. You will need to put in the work to adequately convince pharmacy schools that your interest in pharmacy is genuine and that you have successfully overcome the issues that derailed you in med school.

Ultimately, your goal shouldn't just be getting into a pharmacy school. It should be to get into a pharmacy school AND have the skills to succeed in pharmacy school. I don't know how long it will take you to be that position, but it won't happen overnight. And it will take a lot of thought, efforts, and research.

A lot of the classes I've taken in med school seem to be taught in pharmacy school too. For example, infectious diseases was taught 1st semester at my md school but the pharm school doesn't teach it until 4th year, so I think I have an edge here. Also, I could maybe read the NAPLEX RX book. I heard that the NAPLEX is so easy that people can just study that book and pass pharm school. I think all the drugs I learned in med school would also help.

 

[BC_89]

A lot of the classes I've taken in med school seem to be taught in pharmacy school too. For example, infectious diseases was taught 1st semester at my md school but the pharm school doesn't teach it until 4th year, so I think I have an edge here. Also, I could maybe read the NAPLEX RX book. I heard that the NAPLEX is so easy that people can just study that book and pass pharm school. I think all the drugs I learned in med school would also help.

You clearly did not view the links I sent you concerning the North American Pharmacist Licensure Exam (NAPLEX). The rigors of pharmacy school SHOULD be adequate to pass, but many students in many programs are NOT passing it, which has caused certain programs to shut down and others to re-evaluate their teaching approaches (a portion of accreditation is based on the pass rates). Do not confuse what you perceive as an easy acceptance to correlate to easy schooling (one of the most difficult things I had to push through).

You would flat out fail that test if you simply try to go over the book. This is a competency test to be a drug expert (which in turn tells me you do not know the difference between being an expert in "medicine" vs an expert in "drugs").

Once again, you must not have seen my comment (or ignored) concerning the courses and its differences. I had 4 separate introductory + therapeutic courses (starting my first year as well) in the realm of Infectious Disease (pharmacokinetics/dynamics, utilization, chemical structures vs cross reactivities, so on and so forth). Also, fourth year is not didactic courses, its rotations all year round, so you're going to need to fact check what you here from other sources concerning what/when courses are taught...

Granted, pharmacists are bickering due to saturation of the profession. Don't be fooled into thinking pharmacy is easy access easy degree, you have not shown the ability to pass in the rigors of a health profession, or to do basic research on what to expect in outside professions.


As a side note in terms of Infectious Disease: I love the hospitalists I work with and learn a lot from them, even if they keep ordering cipro for strept pneumoniae, or ertapenem for pseudomonas...

 

[aurevoir0711]

Op is digging a deeper and deeper hole. Thinking is always good, especially before you post something online.

 

[chilly_md]

A lot of the classes I've taken in med school seem to be taught in pharmacy school too. For example, infectious diseases was taught 1st semester at my md school but the pharm school doesn't teach it until 4th year, so I think I have an edge here. Also, I could maybe read the NAPLEX RX book. I heard that the NAPLEX is so easy that people can just study that book and pass pharm school. I think all the drugs I learned in med school would also help.

You repeated first semester after already seeing the material and barely passed the second time based on a previous post of yours. Additionally, I assume you undertook at least part of this plan you had back in 2021 when deciding whether to take a LOA before repeating the first semester:

I have to repeat M1 year

So I failed the first semester of M1 year. Luckily, my school will allow me to repeat (I have to repeat the whole semester since I failed every course). However, I have 2 options. Go on to 2nd semester (I have 2 weeks into the semester to withdraw for a full refund). If I pass this semester, I...

forums.studentdoctor.net

This did not result in much of a change in your performance. I cannot advise you to continue pursuing traditional graduate education at this point. As mentioned by @BC_89, you clearly have not looked into the links that were provided to you regarding NAPLEX. With this kind of unrealistic perspective, you will set yourself up for additional debt and another dismissal from school.

 

[Suzukaze]

Yeah, I’m looking around for this mythical unicorn 🦄 of a curve too. If you see it, let me know.

We do have a curve here. Now though our exams regularly have average into low 70s or 60s, and curve is applied at the end of the block. Without the curve half of the class is probably failing since pass = 70 lmao

 

[Dr Meow]

yup My unicorn has big curves. It's because the questions are so badly written and we'd fail without it

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I appreciate the clarification. Commenting...

... I was attempting to steer him toward MD/DO-adjacent professions such as pharmacy, PT, etc. It is my view that with enough time and careful effort, OP might be able to gain acceptance to a pharmacy/PT school because one or both of the following things could happen: 1) He might be able to adequately demonstrate his interest in the new field of study and his capacity to handle its curriculum.

Yes, which generally means getting experience first. We do have forums here that can address this, but picking a new professional in healthcare may be obvious due to Interprofessional experience in med school, hopefully even before.

2) The application process to a program in the new field of study might simply not ask him about the time period when his misadventures in med school occurred. ...

STOP NOW!

On the contrary, we WILL ask. The faculty on the committees in those programs will want to know if the above efforts were sincerely impactful and a genuine turn towards their respective profession. If one is lucky to get an interview, it will definitely come up. EVERYTHING is looked at carefully, and we will ask that your med school transcripts be submitted to the CAS as part of the primary application. The objection is that the respondent doesn't have the experience of seeing how such applications are reviewed, so don't harm the OP by giving advice that is clearly incorrect to experts who know.

The process might focus on different things such as his undergraduate record, GRE/PCAT scores, exposure to the new field of study, letters from pharmacists/ physical therapists, etc. That's what I meant when I wrote, "You could consider MD/DO adjacent fields like PA, pharmacy, PT, etc. You might get away with not disclosing your 2 years at med school at all or could try to spin it as you realized becoming a physician wasn't for you."

See previous comment. The OP 's past enrollment in medical school can be discovered easily thorough the National Student Clearinghouse.

 

[PirellitTyres]

You repeated first semester after already seeing the material and barely passed the second time based on a previous post of yours. Additionally, I assume you undertook at least part of this plan you had back in 2021 when deciding whether to take a LOA before repeating the first semester:

I have to repeat M1 year

So I failed the first semester of M1 year. Luckily, my school will allow me to repeat (I have to repeat the whole semester since I failed every course). However, I have 2 options. Go on to 2nd semester (I have 2 weeks into the semester to withdraw for a full refund). If I pass this semester, I...

forums.studentdoctor.net

This did not result in much of a change in your performance. I cannot advise you to continue pursuing traditional graduate education at this point. As mentioned by @BC_89, you clearly have not looked into the links that were provided to you regarding NAPLEX. With this kind of unrealistic perspective, you will set yourself up for additional debt and another dismissal from school.

Unfortunately, graduate education is the only pathway I have since my parents forced me to do a bio degree, which is more useless than Russian Literature. I've always wanted to do engineering, finance, or architecture (and my parents didn't even pay for any of my college or med school tuition, rent, etc. They just bought me a new Honda Accord as a graduation gift, which I had to abandon in a walmart parking lot since it was in their name and I lost contact with them after failing med school and couldn't get the car registered).

 

[Goro]

Unfortunately, graduate education is the only pathway I have since my parents forced me to do a bio degree, which is more useless than Russian Literature. I've always wanted to do engineering, finance, or architecture (and my parents didn't even pay for any of my college or med school tuition, rent, etc. They just bought me a new Honda Accord as a graduation gift, which I had to abandon in a walmart parking lot since it was in their name and I lost contact with them after failing med school and couldn't get the car registered).

Get a job, any job.

 

[iDoctel]

Unfortunately, graduate education is the only pathway I have since my parents forced me to do a bio degree, which is more useless than Russian Literature. I've always wanted to do engineering, finance, or architecture (and my parents didn't even pay for any of my college or med school tuition, rent, etc. They just bought me a new Honda Accord as a graduation gift, which I had to abandon in a walmart parking lot since it was in their name and I lost contact with them after failing med school and couldn't get the car registered).

I'm not sure what to tell you here. You've had some challenges, but the way you have been writing messages is concerning. It sounds like you expect things to be handed to you...

A lot of people, including myself, had to work through undergrad to afford living and go to school... A lot of people, including myself, had to work to be able to afford a USED car much less a new car to be able to work and pursue our dreams. I'm sure anything is possible and you might find success with applying to DO schools, but with your attitude toward the profession and generally toward life I'd advice you to take a step away and really re-evaluate your choices...

As you mentioned your parents are no longer a factor, take your life into your own hands. No one is going to hand you a job or a degree in something that you are interested in. If it's something you actually want to do, it's time to work your ass off and get it yourself.

 

[chilly_md]

Unfortunately, graduate education is the only pathway I have since my parents forced me to do a bio degree, which is more useless than Russian Literature. I've always wanted to do engineering, finance, or architecture (and my parents didn't even pay for any of my college or med school tuition, rent, etc. They just bought me a new Honda Accord as a graduation gift, which I had to abandon in a walmart parking lot since it was in their name and I lost contact with them after failing med school and couldn't get the car registered).

No, it is not the only pathway. There are many people with a bachelor's degree in biology who find a job. And that is exactly what you are going to need to do with the loan debt you now have.

The bolded indicates another major issue. Which is that you seem to clearly have wanted to pursue something else and were coerced into medicine. It is in the past now, but if you were not relying on financial support from them in undergrad, you should have majored in one of the 3 fields you mentioned instead. Pursuing a different graduate healthcare profession is just going to lead to the same problems.

 

[Spiceupyourlife]

Unfortunately, graduate education is the only pathway I have since my parents forced me to do a bio degree, which is more useless than Russian Literature. I've always wanted to do engineering, finance, or architecture (and my parents didn't even pay for any of my college or med school tuition, rent, etc. They just bought me a new Honda Accord as a graduation gift, which I had to abandon in a walmart parking lot since it was in their name and I lost contact with them after failing med school and couldn't get the car registered).

There are plenty of jobs. Look into working at CROs-lots of research places are hiring now, many remote. Some positions even involve traveling if you're interested in that. Would you interact with patients directly? No. Would you still have an impact on patients? Absolutely. I worked at the CRO Pfizer partnered with to make the covid vaccine (they also partner with Pfizer on a lot of other trials). The smaller CROs pay even better than the large CROs.

You have other options. They may not be what you want but they are there.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Unfortunately, graduate education is the only pathway I have since my parents forced me to do a bio degree, which is more useless than Russian Literature. I've always wanted to do engineering, finance, or architecture (and my parents didn't even pay for any of my college or med school tuition, rent, etc. They just bought me a new Honda Accord as a graduation gift, which I had to abandon in a walmart parking lot since it was in their name and I lost contact with them after failing med school and couldn't get the car registered).

A bio degree worthless? I used my microbiology degree to carve a career in environmental health with the State of AZ before earning my first masters and getting into university teaching and research. I’ve had other friends with bio degrees go to work for Clark County NV Public Health starting at a salary of 76k. Excuse me for what I am about to say but get off your ass and go do something to take charge of your life! My parents weren’t a factor in my life, so I enlisted in the Army to create a life for myself. You can too but its going to start with some introspection and realistic planning. Best of luck.

 

[Kavy697]

A lot of the classes I've taken in med school seem to be taught in pharmacy school too. For example, infectious diseases was taught 1st semester at my md school but the pharm school doesn't teach it until 4th year, so I think I have an edge here. Also, I could maybe read the NAPLEX RX book. I heard that the NAPLEX is so easy that people can just study that book and pass pharm school. I think all the drugs I learned in med school would also help.

Regarding pharmacy school, as someone who is in their second year I feel they may cover similar content however the course load is vastly different. While yes you may know all the meds, pharmacy school goes deeper into that like the mechanisms and biochemistry and such. Plus, the curriculum is very different. This is all my opinion since I got to one of the top schools, but there is a lot you have to do and given you failed med school and was kicked out, I really do not know if you can put yourself through pharmacy school.

Also keep in mind, a lot of students have to work in their internships during the year plus many of your rotations start your 2nd or 3rd year all the way through 4th. They do this on top of classes

Not sure where you thought NAPLEX is easy. I heard the opposite, but then again, I have not taken it yet.

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Regarding pharmacy school, as someone who is in their second year I feel they may cover similar content however the course load is vastly different. While yes you may know all the meds, pharmacy school goes deeper into that like the mechanisms and biochemistry and such. Plus, the curriculum is very different. This is all my opinion since I got to one of the top schools, but there is a lot you have to do and given you failed med school and was kicked out, I really do not know if you can put yourself through pharmacy school. A lot of students working during the year plus many of your rotations start your 2nd or 3rd year all the way through 4th on top of classes.

Not sure where you thought NAPLEX is easy. I heard the opposite, but then again, I have not taken it yet.

NAPLEX is NOT easy. Different than COMLEX and USMLE but not easier or easy. My father, sister, step mother, and two cousins are all practicing pharmacists and I’ve seen them all as stressed as med students are over our licensure exams.

 

[Kavy697]

NAPLEX is NOT easy. Different than COMLEX and USMLE but not easier or easy. My father, sister, step mother, and two cousins are all practicing pharmacists and I’ve seen them all as stressed as med students are over our licensure exams.

Yeah that's what I've heard from P4s. They told me it's tough.

 

[gsm95]

I would exercise caution in this situation honestly. US MD schools have more resources, better support, and more student friendly policies than the vast majority of DO schools which can be very cutthroat. If you couldn’t make it at a MD school, DO school is not going to be any easier and frankly your experience will most likely be a lot worse.

DO curriculums are arguably harder than MD ones due to OMM (not a good thing btw). Whatever free time you had as a MD student will be spent practicing and studying OMM which is not as intuitive as Internet forums might have you believe.

 

[PirellitTyres]

A bio degree worthless? I used my microbiology degree to carve a career in environmental health with the State of AZ before earning my first masters and getting into university teaching and research. I’ve had other friends with bio degrees go to work for Clark County NV Public Health starting at a salary of 76k. Excuse me for what I am about to say but get off your ass and go do something to take charge of your life! My parents weren’t a factor in my life, so I enlisted in the Army to create a life for myself. You can too but its going to start with some introspection and realistic planning. Best of luck.

Unfortunately, my med school was located in a tiny city and there aren't many job opportunities here (though rent is super cheap), and I still have 9 months left for my apartment contract. I'm just working as a pharm tech now for $15/hour (there are only blue collar/retail jobs here) until I apply to pharm school next year

 

[PhD_to_DO]

Unfortunately, my med school was located in a tiny city and there aren't many job opportunities here (though rent is super cheap), and I still have 9 months left for my apartment contract. I'm just working as a pharm tech now for $15/hour (there are only blue collar/retail jobs here) until I apply to pharm school next year

So who says that you have to work as a pharm tech??? Last night, my wife found 15-20 REMOTE jobs with the Fed Govt, lowest salary was 94k and the highest was 176k, for various positions ranging from the CDC to the IRS and most required nothing more than a bachelors degree. There is a college in S. California, Southern California University of Health Sciences, that frequently hires for remote clinical research associates at a starting rate of 72k (I know because I used to work for them). You are 100% NOT stuck unless you want to be stuck. There are a ton of remote positions out there, many requiring nothing more than a bachelors degree, that could end up being a viable, high paying career for you that won’t require the investment of time and money that pursuing another round of schooling would entail. Your choice but you do have options if you choose to search for and pursue them.

 

[Sleepingdoc]

I havent seen the answer for why exactly is a 512 MCAT with 3.7 GPA struggling this much?? Any answer to why you were kicked out, what is the reason for multiple failures? What is your motivation to becoming a doctor?
Honestly if you can answer all of this, and then apply- that is the only way to know... But all of this takes time and money and lot of explanation in secondaries as well. No guarantees. Not sure how much more money you are willing to spend as well. Some/if not all state licenses require you to finish steps/residency in certain number of years as well i believe.
I havent been though the application process in a long time so others may be able to give you a better advise, but if you are trying to say that being a DO will be easier than going to an MD school- you are wrong.

 

[chilly_md]

The OP has gotten more than enough information from various users with which to make decisions. No further discussion appears to be indicated or helpful.
Closing.

 

[Rxbound]

A lot of the classes I've taken in med school seem to be taught in pharmacy school too. For example, infectious diseases was taught 1st semester at my md school but the pharm school doesn't teach it until 4th year, so I think I have an edge here. Also, I could maybe read the NAPLEX RX book. I heard that the NAPLEX is so easy that people can just study that book and pass pharm school. I think all the drugs I learned in med school would also help.

Misinformed about the NAPLEX. Very hard test to take even after 4 years of pharmacy school and NAPLEX review. Don't assume that you'll fly through anything pharmacy related because you were previously in medical school. You failed out.