Applying to DO schools after failing out of US MD school with competetive stats

[PirellitTyres]

So undergrad GPA was 3.7 and MCAT 512, which is average for MD school, but quite competetive for DO schools. My only red flag is I got kicked out of medical school during 2nd year because of failing multiple courses. Will I have a chance at any DO schools, even ones that have average GPAs/MCATs significantly lower than mine>

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[chilly_md]

No, it is unfortunately time to look at alternative careers as discussed in your previous threads.

 

[EArlyBirdGetsTheWorm]

If you failed courses in an allopathic school, what makes you think you won't do the same in a DO school? you will be taking the same courses. Just because they accept applicants with lower stats, does not mean that the school is easier.
I would assume that DO schools would know that you failed out. I can't imagine they would want you, but who knows.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Some of the new/predatory ones might but I think it’s time to call it quits unless you have a trust fund or something such that money/opportunity cost doesn’t matter

 

[OMMKing]

Sent you a PM. Was there a particular reason you failed? Repeat year? I think you have a good chance with those stats. But is there any chance you can appeal to the MD program?

 

[wook]

I would be cautious on this. Why did you fail multiple classes? As a learned colleague mentioned, med school is med school. DO school is not likely to be any easier. Med schools are not going to be encouraged that you already failed out of medical school, and are likely to have reservations about offering you the opportunity to attend medical school again.

As someone else asked, why did you fail these courses?



Wook

 

[deleted1091211]

Honestly, it seems a bit disrespectful to D.O. programs to think they’re somehow easier, or that for whatever reason, that you’ll be able to perform better.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

why not take 3 years off working. You may like it more than you think? If not, maybe think about applying again with improvements showing you can handle the work

 

[deleted1079620]

DO school is MD school plus OMM. It’s not less work than MD school.

 

[MDMechEngr]

OP: like in a golf swing. If you screwed up on your fist shot, you will likely do better on your second shot. Shoot your 2nd shot if they the DO school gives you a shot. But if you did not succeed in an MD school with your average MD stats, you may have some deeper issues that were the root cause of you being kicked out. Need to do a root cause analysis and fix them before you waist anymore time and money. GL.

 

[Goro]

So undergrad GPA was 3.7 and MCAT 512, which is average for MD school, but quite competetive for DO schools. My only red flag is I got kicked out of medical school during 2nd year because of failing multiple courses. Will I have a chance at any DO schools, even ones that have average GPAs/MCATs significantly lower than mine>

Autoreject at my school.

You have to be serious with yourself now.

Be realistic.

You have long struggled with being a medical student, and I think even before that. How will anything be different if you go to a DO school?

And your pre-medical stats have nothing to do with the situation now. You FAILED out of a medical school.

You had your shot. It's time to do something else. The harsh truth is that your medical career is over.

 

[Wokemon]

You could consider MD/DO adjacent fields like PA, pharmacy, PT, etc. You might get away with not disclosing your 2 years at med school at all or could try to spin it as you realized becoming a physician wasn't for you

 

[Goro]

You could consider MD/DO adjacent fields like PA, pharmacy, PT, etc. You might get away with not disclosing your 2 years at med school at all or could try to spin it as you realized becoming a physician wasn't for you

This is terrible advice! If a career that values honest in all venues, you're advising the OP to be dishonest???

And do you not think that a PA or OP program won't contact the OP's school to find out what happened???????

 

[deleted1079620]

OP: like in a golf swing. If you screwed up on your fist shot, you will likely do better on your second shot. Shoot your 2nd shot if they the DO school gives you a shot. But if you did not succeed in an MD school with your average MD stats, you may have some deeper issues that were the root cause of you being kicked out. Need to do a root cause analysis and fix them before you waist anymore time and money. GL.

OP failed a class their first semester of med school, took a LOA, repeated the year, failed 2 classes, then failed the remediation exam. DO school would not be their “2nd shot”. More like their 3rd/4th, depending on how you’re counting.

OP, you’ve been on these forums for a long time asking about remediation, lawyering up to try and get your school to give you another chance, you’ve asked about pharmacy school, and now you want to go to DO school. What do you really want and how are you going to get it? It’s time to be serious as well as realistic.

 

[esob]

This is terrible advise! If a career that values honest in all venues, you're advising the OP to be dishonest???

And do you not think that a PA or OP program won't contact the OP's school to find out what happened???????

100% of this. Dishonesty in this process will invariably catch up with people, and if people on the internet have thought of it, so have the people who write the applications, so they'd catch the applicant regardless.

 

[deleted1139416]

The only way for you to become a physician is Caribbean

 

[Dr Meow]

The only way for you to become a physician is Caribbean

Don't make the situation worse

 

[BC_89]

Were you not just in the pharmacy forums asking about applying broadly due to your circumstance in regard to getting dismissed from your MD program? I fear you're trying to quickly pivot to random careers while simultaneously trying to find last ditch efforts to getting back to where you were (which as others have stated, doesn't look bright at all anymore).

I urge you to slow down and just take a breath. There's a lot going on right now and you need to make a pros/cons list of your next step. Never make a decision and act on it during your low and high moments...they both lie to you.

 

[wook]

Never make a decision and act on it during your low and high moments...they both lie to you.

Very well stated.

I wish I had thought of something as wise as this!

 

[PikminOC]

So undergrad GPA was 3.7 and MCAT 512, which is average for MD school, but quite competetive for DO schools. My only red flag is I got kicked out of medical school during 2nd year because of failing multiple courses. Will I have a chance at any DO schools, even ones that have average GPAs/MCATs significantly lower than mine>

Yes you'll be fine as long as you can pay for it.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Unless there were serious personal issues that have successfully been dealt with, I would have SERIOUS reservations about OPs success in DO school. Otherwise, I would not recommend them for admission. Thinking they would perform better there than in an MD school is rather misguided.

 

[wook]

Unless there were serious personal issues that have successfully been dealt with, I would have SERIOUS reservations about OPs success in DO school. Otherwise, I would not recommend them for admission. Thinking they would perform better there than in an MD school is rather misguided.

I concur with your insights.

 

[OMMKing]

Yes you'll be fine as long as you can pay for it.

This is the truth OP. Anyone who tells you that you won't get into ANY DO school with a 3.7 and 512 is misguided. Half of my class had MCATs in the 490s and some DO schools can't fill their class. The real issue here is not admissions but making sure you can get through school.

 

[Goro]

This is the truth OP. Anyone who tells you that you won't get into ANY DO school with a 3.7 and 512 is misguided. Half of my class had MCATs in the 490s and some DO schools can't fill their class.

Did any of them fail out of a different med school prior to that????

 

[wook]

Did any of them fail out of a different med school prior to that????

Agree!

If I'm sitting on a committee evaluating candidates, why would I take someone who has not been able to to succeed previously?

 

[BC_89]

This is the truth OP. Anyone who tells you that you won't get into ANY DO school with a 3.7 and 512 is misguided. Half of my class had MCATs in the 490s and some DO schools can't fill their class. The real issue here is not admissions but making sure you can get through school.

Since OP is going back and forth on different forums (this being the latest as of yet), it's important to note a couple of facts that can't be ignored:

Looking at undergrad GPA and MCAT as an entry level "re-opportunity" to be granted additional interviews is not good enough anymore due to the sheer reason that they didn't succeed in the rigors of med school NOT once, but multiple times. Undergrad is not medical school - they could not adapt. This will also be hard when trying to explain why not medicine and all of a sudden in a short matter of time pursue another profession with no experience or shadowing (i.e. pharmacy).

I'd argue it's misguided to state "anyone who tells you that you won't get into ANY DO school with a 3.7 and 512 is misguided" is indeed, misguided itself. I can say the same thing about NEVER winning the lottery. Is there a shot? sure...but is my statement really misguided on NEVER winning?

 

[OMMKing]

Since OP is going back and forth on different forums (this being the latest as of yet), it's important to note a couple of facts that can't be ignored:

Looking at undergrad GPA and MCAT as an entry level "re-opportunity" to be granted additional interviews is not good enough anymore due to the sheer reason that they didn't succeed in the rigors of med school NOT once, but multiple times. Undergrad is not medical school - they could not adapt. This will also be hard when trying to explain why not medicine and all of a sudden in a short matter of time pursue another profession with no experience or shadowing (i.e. pharmacy).

I'd argue it's misguided to state "anyone who tells you won't get into ANY DO school with a 3.7 and 512 is misguided" is indeed, misguided itself. I can say the same thing about NEVER winning the lottery. Is there a shot? sure...but is my statement really misguided on NEVER winning?

Comparing predatory DO schools hungry for money with winning the lottery is not exactly a good comparison. However, I agree that failing multiple times points to a bigger issue here. DO schools are much less forgiving OP.

 

[BC_89]

Comparing predatory DO schools hungry for money with winning the lottery is not exactly a good comparison. However, I agree that failing multiple times points to a bigger issue here. DO schools are much less forgiving OP.

The comparison I made deals with the verbiage, not the outcome.

For OP sake, without a valid explanation (or even with one for that matter), and although unfortunate, it's not misguided to state that there stats in undergrad is not enough anymore, and that they will more than likely be passed up by DO programs (even if we talk money-hungry programs, its more valid to take a student who will likely pass and keep future tuition payments than to take someone with a one-time tuition deposit and more than likely fail out).

Then again, perhaps my understanding is limited, and that indeed it is common for DO programs to take on students who failed out of MD institutions. I'd be interested to know if that is a common pathway and why some (not all) perceive DO below the MD pedestal?

OP, the real question remains (and I am curious): what exactly, and specifically, would you do differently in terms of your studies to convince a committee that you are worth the investment compared to someone else who has no cause to make a committee doubt their ability to excel? Also, does this post mean you are pushing away from pharmacy and other avenues? I'm just not sure where your career compass is (of which case, I refer you to my post on taking your time and not rushing sporadically to multiple avenues at once).

 

[deleted1133766]

The short answer is anything is possible and I wouldn't give up.

The longer answer is you probably won't have much luck at most DO programs because they are not looking to give you a second chance when they have plenty of competitive applicants who want to become osteopathic physicians and who have experience shadowing DO physicians as well as an understanding of OMM. How would you be a competitive applicant at that point?

As far as crazy stories go, I have seen people fail out of one Caribbean program and hop islands not once but twice and STILL match into IM, FM, and Peds. I don't know how you explain that but that tells me that the system is not as stringent on "failure" as you are led to believe if some PD feels confident that these "failures" will make competent physicians.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

The comparison I made deals with the verbiage, not the outcome.

For OP sake, without a valid explanation (or even with one for that matter), and although unfortunate, it's not misguided to state that there stats in undergrad is not enough anymore, and that they will more than likely be passed up by DO programs (even if we talk money-hungry programs, its more valid to take a student who will likely pass and keep future tuition payments than to take someone with a one-time tuition deposit and more than likely fail out).

Then again, perhaps my understanding is limited, and that indeed it is common for DO programs to take on students who failed out of MD institutions. I'd be interested to know if that is a common pathway and why some (not all) perceive DO below the MD pedestal?

Admissions deans, their faculty peers, and their administration are cognizant that their program doesn't want to be known as receptive to reclamation projects/applicants. Once that happens, word will spread on the forums faster than wildfire. Then the perceived rigor and competitive value of the degree they offer drops, and that is not a good thing.

 

[PirellitTyres]

The comparison I made deals with the verbiage, not the outcome.

For OP sake, without a valid explanation (or even with one for that matter), and although unfortunate, it's not misguided to state that there stats in undergrad is not enough anymore, and that they will more than likely be passed up by DO programs (even if we talk money-hungry programs, its more valid to take a student who will likely pass and keep future tuition payments than to take someone with a one-time tuition deposit and more than likely fail out).

Then again, perhaps my understanding is limited, and that indeed it is common for DO programs to take on students who failed out of MD institutions. I'd be interested to know if that is a common pathway and why some (not all) perceive DO below the MD pedestal?

OP, the real question remains (and I am curious): what exactly, and specifically, would you do differently in terms of your studies to convince a committee that you are worth the investment compared to someone else who has no cause to make a committee doubt their ability to excel? Also, does this post mean you are pushing away from pharmacy and other avenues? I'm just not sure where your career compass is (of which case, I refer you to my post on taking your time and not rushing sporadically to multiple avenues at once).

Pharmacy school is actually my top choice now, given I've always liked pharmacology in medical school and it seems like pharm schools will take anyone with a pulse

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Pharmacy school is actually my top choice now, given I've always liked pharmacology in medical school and it seems like pharm schools will take anyone with a pulse

Please read MD to PharmD? Has anyone done it in this order, and is it worth it?

 

[BC_89]

Pharmacy school is actually my top choice now, given I've always liked pharmacology in medical school and it seems like pharm schools will take anyone with a pulse

Then I'd say this thread has reached its end as far as DO is concerned. I then refer you to my response in the pharm thread in terms of the programs and the percentage of those (albeit acceptance has gotten easier over the years) that have not been able to pass their licensure exams or seek their desired placement after residency status.

You've gotten the suggestions and responses that are more than adequate of giving you direction. The rest is your choice.

 

[chilly_md]

Given OP’s struggles at the end of undergrad as well as within medical school, it would be also good to look at careers where you would not need further schooling.

If OP would still like to learn more about switching to pharmacy, they can refer to their other thread and ask any further questions there:

Thinking of applying to pharmacy school after getting dismissed from medical school

So I was recently dismissed from medical school after failing 2 semesters of my M1 and M2 years. My gpa was 3.5 (with a big downward trend), and I had a 512 MCAT. The school I want to attend doesn't require PCAT (they don't even report the average score), but I think if I take it, I can score in...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[DentistOfDetroit]

Maybe OP was going through some extremely difficult things in life. Maybe a family member or significant other died during medical school and they didn’t cope well. All kinds of reasons that might explain why someone could fail in the past and succeed now. But sure, why not just send out a secondary, have the OP waste their precious time only to auto reject and completely disregard a persons application that they pay you $100 to review.

 

[prognosis negative]

OP- I withdrew from a DO school after failing multiple courses in 1st year. Retook the MCAT and did a masters program after withdrawal. I got 4 DO II's last cycle after re-applying really late in the cycle, WL on 1 and R on 3 for last cycle; now have 1 MD II this cycle

It's an uphill battle, and many schools may not consider you, but there's still definitely a chance.

If you look at AACOMAS stats, there are numbers given for prior matriculants of US MD and US DO. I don't have them in front of me but I wanna say there were like 40 of us in a recent year and 11 were accepted

Feel free to PM me!

 

[YogaisDO]

So undergrad GPA was 3.7 and MCAT 512, which is average for MD school, but quite competetive for DO schools. My only red flag is I got kicked out of medical school during 2nd year because of failing multiple courses. Will I have a chance at any DO schools, even ones that have average GPAs/MCATs significantly lower than mine>

Absolutely! Just address why you failed out in the app- best bet is to chalk it up to a life event/circumstance. Hard to get good advice from DO students on forums as they are often insecure about issues concerning DO/MD (in) equality.

 

[aurevoir0711]

A current US MD 4th-year student here. Think deeply about what your true motivation and reasoning are. I am sensing that you think, for whatever reason, DO school will be easier to get through compared to MD school. Albeit I have not gone through a DO school, the fact that their curriculum requires MD curriculum + OMM makes me think that DO school would require students to work harder. On top of that, you will be taking 2 freaking board exams after the second and third year (COMLEX + USMLE). I have seen very skilled and super intelligent DO doctors during my rotations. Please be respectful to DO physicians/students and save your money/time. It's time to move on.

 

[YogaisDO]

Some of you med school admins are honestly so toxic and hypocritical. You select for candidates that have a deep level of empathy, but have none yourselves .

If they were to answer this very question in a med school interview, they would be flagged and rejected for lack of empathy and not trying to “understand” the situation more.

Maybe OP was going through some extremely difficult things in life. Maybe a family member or significant other died during medical school and they didn’t cope well. All kinds of reasons that might explain why someone could fail in the past and succeed now. But sure, why not just send out a secondary, have the OP waste their precious time only to auto reject and completely disregard a persons application that they pay you $100 to review.

Best advice I could give to prospective DO students is to take the advice of certain admins with a grain of salt.

 

[dr_of_rock]

So undergrad GPA was 3.7 and MCAT 512, which is average for MD school, but quite competetive for DO schools. My only red flag is I got kicked out of medical school during 2nd year because of failing multiple courses. Will I have a chance at any DO schools, even ones that have average GPAs/MCATs significantly lower than mine>

Even if you somehow got in, I would advise against more debt my friend. DO school is every bit as hard as MD. I think you would have the same outcome. Best of luck.

 

[calvinhobbes]

Don’t give up. Go ahead and apply. As long as you didn’t get kicked out for unprofessional behavior or misconduct, PLENTY and I mean MANY, MANY people fail something here and there, and still become doctors. It happens. Maybe you had a crappy year, maybe stuff was going on, maybe the professor and class sucked. It happens. I suggest you apply to all DO schools and see what happens! Good luck. You have nothing to lose (besides the cost), just prepare youself to be asked on an interview why they should give you a second chance. Also realize DO schools are harder because you have to learn OMM.
Also, you can even try applying to some newer MD schools and see if they grant you an interview, too.

 

[Capt_Mal_Shiny]

So undergrad GPA was 3.7 and MCAT 512, which is average for MD school, but quite competetive for DO schools. My only red flag is I got kicked out of medical school during 2nd year because of failing multiple courses. Will I have a chance at any DO schools, even ones that have average GPAs/MCATs significantly lower than mine>

Hey friend. A lot of people have been pretty blunt. I don’t mean to jump on the bandwagon, but there is another concern people aren’t mentioning. It you got reinstated now you would be in for a huge uphill battle when it comes to matching into a good residency. Also, the pressure you would feel regarding your step 2 score would probably be overwhelming. You’re probably setting yourself up for even bigger problems pursuing this route.

 

[aurevoir0711]

Pharmacy school is actually my top choice now, given I've always liked pharmacology in medical school and it seems like pharm schools will take anyone with a pulse

Not trying to be disrespectful, but just read your last part of the sentence. Many people are getting the vibes that you are disrespecting certain schools including DO and pharm schools. If this is the attitude you have, you will have a hard time adjusting no matter where you go. Good luck.

 

[calvinhobbes]

Hey friend. A lot of people have been pretty blunt. I don’t mean to jump on the bandwagon, but there is another concern people aren’t mentioning. It you got reinstated now you would be in for a huge uphill battle when it comes to matching into a good residency. Also, the pressure you would feel regarding your step 2 score would probably be overwhelming. You’re probably setting yourself up for even bigger problems pursuing this route.

Excellent point.
Yeah, something to consider. Matching won’t be impossible (harder maybe for super competitive specialities), but if he does good in a DO program, he should be fine for DO friendly specialties and primary care.

 

[deleted1139416]

The only way for you to become a physician is Caribbean

Just want to clarify that this comment was to be taken as sarcasm…. a lot of people took me seriously and disliked it

 

[vfern027]

So undergrad GPA was 3.7 and MCAT 512, which is average for MD school, but quite competetive for DO schools. My only red flag is I got kicked out of medical school during 2nd year because of failing multiple courses. Will I have a chance at any DO schools, even ones that have average GPAs/MCATs significantly lower than mine>

???? DO programs are just as difficult as MD programs so not really sure why you think you would succeed at one if you failed out of MD. Not to mention you have to also worry about OMM course and lab as an extra class. But good luck!

 

[Goro]

Just want to clarify that this comment was to be taken as sarcasm…. a lot of people took me seriously and disliked it

Sarcasm doesn't travel well over the electrons

 

[PhD_to_DO]

So undergrad GPA was 3.7 and MCAT 512, which is average for MD school, but quite competetive for DO schools. My only red flag is I got kicked out of medical school during 2nd year because of failing multiple courses. Will I have a chance at any DO schools, even ones that have average GPAs/MCATs significantly lower than mine>

There was one student who failed out of her first two years of her US MD program who gained admissions to my wife’s DO program. This student went back to do an SMP and retook the MCAT. As I recall, the adcom was evenly split on her candidacy so my wife did two supplemental interviews with the student and requested a letter from the dean of the applicants previous school. The student ultimately did get into my wife’s program but she went thru a lot to make it so. She is doing well now but she is the first former med student to get into my wife’s school EVER. This is exceedingly rare…

 

[daddydoctor]

Don’t let anyone on this thread tell you to give up! The next logical step is DO school. Grading is done on a curve and based on average USMLE scores, an MD should score a standard deviation (1 letter grade) higher in all his/her DO classes. This is a statistical fact. Not to mention the relief you will feel when you no longer are struggling at the bottom of your class.
All the best.

 

[StressedPoptarts]

Maybe OP was going through some extremely difficult things in life. Maybe a family member or significant other died during medical school and they didn’t cope well. All kinds of reasons that might explain why someone could fail in the past and succeed now. But sure, why not just send out a secondary, have the OP waste their precious time only to auto reject and completely disregard a persons application that they pay you $100 to review.

I loved your initial comment (before the edit) about the harsh tones here, including those from ad com members. Difficult conversations and advice can be given respectfully and with less judgement. Just my $0.02 from reading some of these responses…