help with ranking

[doctobe2]

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Can anyone please give me some insight into how to rank the following. I am not certain which particular aspect of PM&R I'm leaning more towards, therefore I would prefer a more rounded program.
Also, I'm sure that I would love a career in research combined with clinical practice someday

These are the programs in no specific order:😕

Loma linda
UCDavis
UTSW
Baylor,Dallas
UT San Antonio
RIC
Mayo

Thanks!

 

[normalforce]

thats an easy one RIC of course

 

[doctobe2]

Thanks NF, any other takers please? pros and cons of say RIC vs Mayo,
or Loma Linda vs UC Davis and if possible relate it to the quality of research opportunities and how well rounded the programs are?
Thanks

 

[ShrikeMD]

Thanks NF, any other takers please? pros and cons of say RIC vs Mayo,
or Loma Linda vs UC Davis and if possible relate it to the quality of research opportunities and how well rounded the programs are?
Thanks

Productivity is a fair test for research opportunity. Clinicians/clinical investigators at RIC have contributed far more than at the other sites listed. Yes, they have a larger faculty too, but that is part of the RIC advantage.

If clinical research productivity is an issue of importance for you, I am unsure why you haven't listed Kessler or UW or OSU or Moss.

ps: sorry for the grammatical error in the title.

 

[doctobe2]

Thanks ShrikeMD. I didn’t apply to UWash, OSU or Kessler because I have geographical restrictions due to the needs of my family. Pardon my ignorance but -Which program is Moss

 

[Shalom77]

Moss is affiliated with Temple and Jefferson in Philadelphia. I'm sure one could take advantage of research opportunities there if one was at Penn as well.

 

[ShrikeMD]

Moss is affiliated with Temple and Jefferson in Philadelphia. I'm sure one could take advantage of research opportunities there if one was at Penn as well.

I cited these programs (Kessler, UW, OSU, Moss [in addition to RIC]) because these programs are known to have multiple clinicians/clinical investigators within their programs. I could cite other programs that are perhaps not as well known, but have several clinicians that contribute to the scientific literature with research studies in their fields of interest.

My point is that research opportunities may exist in a lot of rehabilitation centers/environments (inpt/outpt), but a fair indicator of research support is the ongoing productivity of multiple clinical investigators in a given program. The type of support may vary, and include pilot project funding, grants, mentorship, or even something as simple as a collaborative team that has sufficient "critical mass" that they are more productive together than they would be working independently.

If one believes that research may be an important part of their future academic career, it is a good idea to find out who the mentors are in their potential programs of interest, and speak with them regarding research opportunities within the program.

 

[caedmon]

I wrote a recent review of Mayo on scutwork.com. Check it out.

It's a well rounded program with more of an inclination toward outpatient. Most residents here want to do outpatient/MSK/sports etc. and that is a definite strength here. We have had a few residents going in to pain too. In the last year or so, about half are going into private/academic practice with significant inpatient responsitiblities as well.

 

[Shalom77]

I'm curious about how people weigh the education at a "freestanding" larger volume institution vs. inpatient ward that is part of the hospital(s) with lots of consultants. What are the pros and cons of Mayo's hierarchical inpatient structure ie teams with both senior and junior and compared with how inpatient services are run at RIC.

One thing I really liked about Mayo is the EMG training, the opportunity to work closely with neurologists there. I also liked the outpatient neuro rotation which seemed like a good way to solidify neuro skills. I'm curious how people think these compare to the experience at RIC.

 

[specepic]

I guess I did not look that much at how much a program or its faculty publishes. I do not agree that research opportunities or publishing volume matter above several other factors. I can think or several attendings both before and during residency who are 'names' and publish, edit texts, etc. who I would not want to take care of my family and that I learn essentially zero from, except how I don't want to practice. I usually find that those who are publishing machines are the poorest teachers, with some exceptions of course. I am not claiming this is a fact, it is my personal experience.

I would look more at your interests and find out what a program's strengths are. I knew I was not hardcore into inpt. and did not see a need to do in house call (from a lifestyle or learning perspective) so I chose accordingly and I made the right move.

From what I have heard the inpt. resident struture is great at Mayo. Look at it this way, would you rather be seeing a whole team by yourself or have a co-resident to split the list with and 1-2 seniors to guide you and answer your ?'s. I suppose the only downside would be if you think you'll learn a lot more carrying 15-20 inpts by yourself, and whether that extra bit of learning will have any inpact on your career or overall learning.

PM me if you wish

I should add that I am not speaking against a recommendation that above posters make for RIC. From what I hear it is excellent. It was not the ideal fit for me, but it may be for you. Also the comments about faculty have no bearing on RIC itself (or any one program) as I have not trained or rotated there and cannot speak to the teaching abilities of their well published faculty.

 

[drvlad2004]

Can anyone please give me some insight into how to rank the following. I am not certain which particular aspect of PM&R I'm leaning more towards, therefore I would prefer a more rounded program.
Also, I'm sure that I would love a career in research combined with clinical practice someday

These are the programs in no specific order:😕

Loma linda
UCDavis
UTSW
Baylor,Dallas
UT San Antonio
RIC
Mayo

Thanks!

No one mentioned UT San Antonio. When I interviewed there, I thought it was a very strong program. They are really strong in EMG and good with MSK. Dr. Dumitru is intimidating but is obviously well known in EMGs. Advanced EMGs are done with Dumitru. San Antonio probably has one of the toughest PGY1 and PGY2 years but the residents seemed very satisfied. Dr. Walsh was very nice. You get some good interventional training with him. Their outpatient is considered stronger than Baylor (Houston). Baylor is definitely stronger (maybe the strongest) in inpatient rehab, which I have little to no interest in.

 

[axm397]

These are the programs in no specific order:😕

Loma linda
UCDavis
UTSW
Baylor,Dallas
UT San Antonio
RIC
Mayo

Thanks!

You really have a range of different programs listed here. It really depends on how well you know yourself and your needs. If you want to be a "big fish in a small pond" and have a cozier feel, then smaller programs may be for you. If you want a big classful of people to get to know during your residency, then larger programs may be better. (one thing I didn't think about was the ability of my class to absorb resident illnesses and leave of absences - when you only have 4 in a class, it is difficult. when you have 10+, it is not too bad) If you want a high powered academic program pumping out lots of alums (and potential network) then the larger programs based in academic institutions would be better.

If you want a cush lifestyle during residency - then lower patient volume would be better although I have to say any PM&R residency is very cush compared to intern year or any other field for that matter. If you want to do research, then you want to go to a place where residents are able to and encouraged to do research. If location (big city or small town) or climate(RIC - bad winter, Baylor - bad summer) matters - or having a social life (sorry Mayo), matters then you need to consider that.

If you have a significant other, making sure they have a support system at the location also may be important.

If you want an academic career, then obviously, the bigger "name" programs are better. I have friends who are residents and/or attendings at all the programs you listed. There are pros and cons to each. It's like dating - a good match for one person may not be the best match for another.

I do have to say in defense of RIC - that you do have a co-resident on the floor with you working with another attending. Average number of patients is 8-18 which I dont' think is that bad - but regardless, generations of RIC residents have been fine and will continue to be fine. Dr. Sliwa is very responsive to resident concerns. When the ortho floor got to be too much scut and not enough learning, he hired a nurse practitioner. when residents wanted more dedicated research time, he allowed them to do research one half day a week for 6 months in lieu of continuity clinics with the caveat that they will have to make up a month of outpatient later. Finding coverage or funding to go to scientific conferences has not been an issue for me.

On a related note, funding and political clout at an institution may also become an issue - especially when there are negative situations that need to be fixed. Fellowship availability, fellowship placement, job placement, are all factors to consider. do you know where you want to end up eventually? Would you consider fellowship?

These are all things to consider when making your rank list.

 

[dc2md]

great post axm. this is sticky-worthy info.

 

[doctobe2]

PM me if you wish

Thanks Specepic I just did!

 

[doctobe2]

Thanks to all who answered my question and assisted me with thinking the ranking thing through. Now that the ROL is finally in, I am confident I made the right decision and regardless of how my list is ordered, I believe that we all have a place somewhere and I am hoping that I end up in my right place
One again thanks to everyone!

 

[ShrikeMD]

I guess I did not look that much at how much a program or its faculty publishes. I do not agree that research opportunities or publishing volume matter above several other factors. I can think or several attendings both before and during residency who

No one suggested that research opportunities or publishing volume matters above other factors. If one considers research to be an important factor in their consideration of a future academic program, however, then these factors (research opportunities, faculty publishing volume) are worthy of consideration. There are a number of important factors to consider when picking a program; many of these have been enumerated in this thread.

 

[specepic]

No one suggested that research opportunities or publishing volume matters above other factors. If one considers research to be an important factor in their consideration of a future academic program, however, then these factors (research opportunities, faculty publishing volume) are worthy of consideration. There are a number of important factors to consider when picking a program; many of these have been enumerated in this thread.

It does appear that several posts emphasized reserach and publishing volume as a factor. I was providing my own opinion on that as a factor, when weighed against other issues. There was no intention to dimish your post.

 

[ShrikeMD]

It does appear that several posts emphasized reserach and publishing volume as a factor. I was providing my own opinion on that as a factor, when weighed against other issues. There was no intention to dimish your post.

Then it was I who misconstrued things. Sorry.

It looks like we are in agreement.