Hidden costs of DO schools

[The_Sunny_Doc]

Let's add up all the fees they don't tell you about up front:

1. Cost of OMM resources (Savarese or OME), COMBANK if your subscription expires and you have to renew.
3. If your school is one of the newer ones, the cost of mandatory board prep course they force you to use their osteopathic board-focused program instead of/in addition to UWorld. The one our school forced us to use was $1200 and was full of typos and factual errors.
4. Cost of additional board exams if you're taking both sets of boards.
5. Cost of living hours away from a major airport if your school and/or rotation sites are in a more rural location.
6. Cost of applying to away rotations through VSAS + fees paid to schools to "audition" at their program to make yourself known at programs that don't take many DOs. Some schools asked for as much as $250 for a month long rotation. One school even had me pay for MMR titers (not recommended by the CDC, btw) which cost me $200 since they weren't covered by my crappy plan and I was located in a rural area without a Labcorp.
7. Cost of retaking the COMLEX PE. Apparently 7-8% of all test takers fail. That's high compared to only 2% (edit: 5%) of test takers failing the USMLE Step 2 CS.
8. Cost of potentially not graduating on time because all the PE dates fill up and you have to retake the exam. This is actually happening to me right now and I'm terrified I won't refresh the NBOME scheduling site often enough to get a date before the date we need to take it by to be certified for graduation..
9. Cost of booking a flight + hotel last minute because you have to score a last minute flight and hop on a plane within 24 hours to take the PE exam because there are only two testing centers and limited dates.

Feeling bitter and discouraged right now after failing the COMLEX PE as a 4th year who took it in December. It's going to be an expensive extra year of medical school otherwise.

ETA: I secured a testing date thanks to the kind folks at the NBOME.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Epilepsy365]

My heart goes out to you. I hope that things work out in the end and you are able to snag a slot and graduate on time to some slot.

My only advice is to call everyday at 7AM Philadelphia time and pray that someone will remember you from the office and give you a phone call for that last minute slot.

That’s what happened to me and I pray that the same fortune falls on you.

 

[Giovanotto]

Love this thread. You're probably missing other costs too. Don't forget the 3% tuition hike every year, the cost you see as an M0 is not what you'll pay. Add a good 10k to that by the time you're a M3-M4.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I am so sorry sunny doc that this has happened to you. My heart goes out. Do as Epilepsy says, and you will make it. Sent you a PM.

Let's add up all the fees they don't tell you about up front:

1. Cost of OMM resources (Savarese or OME), COMBANK if your subscription expires and you have to renew.
3. If your school is one of the newer ones, the cost of mandatory board prep course they force you to use their osteopathic board-focused program instead of/in addition to UWorld. The one our school forced us to use was $1200 and was full of typos and factual errors.
4. Cost of additional board exams if you're taking both sets of boards.
5. Cost of living hours away from a major airport if your school and/or rotation sites are in a more rural location.
6. Cost of applying to away rotations through VSAS + fees paid to schools to "audition" at their program to make yourself known at programs that don't take many DOs. Some schools asked for as much as $250 for a month long rotation. One school even had me pay for MMR titers (not recommended by the CDC, btw) which cost me $200 since they weren't covered by my crappy plan and I was located in a rural area without a Labcorp.
7. Cost of retaking the COMLEX PE. Apparently 7-8% of all test takers fail. That's high compared to only 2% of test takers failing the USMLE Step 2 CS.
8. Cost of potentially not graduating on time because all the PE dates fill up and you have to retake the exam. This is actually happening to me right now and I'm terrified I won't refresh the NBOME scheduling site often enough to get a date before March 6th 2020.
9. Cost of booking a flight + hotel last minute because you have to score a last minute flight and hop on a plane within 24 hours to take the PE exam because there are only two testing centers and limited dates.

Feeling bitter and discouraged right now after failing the COMLEX PE as a 4th year who took it in December. If you know anyone taking it before March 6th, please let me know if they're willing to give up their date. It's going to be an expensive extra year of medical school otherwise. In spite of the great mentors and education I've received, I'm currently regretting taking this path instead of going to an MD school, to be quite honest.

 

[Kardio]

Love this thread. You're probably missing other costs too. Don't forget the 3% tuition hike every year, the cost you see as an M0 is not what you'll pay. Add a good 10k to that by the time you're a M3-M4.

A 3% hike in tuition is right around the annual inflation rate. Regular increases in tuition aren't unique to DO schools.

This will be offset, at least partially, by an increase in mean compensation over time. Per the Medscape compensation reports:
2012 Family Medicine (Male): $174,000
2016 Family Medicine (Male): $220,000
2019 Family Medicine (Male): $253,000

2012:

Medscape: Medscape Access

2016:

Medscape: Medscape Access

2019:

Medscape: Medscape Access

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

My heart goes out to you. I hope that things work out in the end and you are able to snag a slot and graduate on time to some slot.

My only advice is to call everyday at 7AM Philadelphia time and pray that someone will remember you from the office and give you a phone call for that last minute slot.

That’s what happened to me and I pray that the same fortune falls on you.

I’m trying to do just that! They’re not answering and I’m getting nervous.

This is the most anxiety-inducing situation.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

Major point: Explain the “costs” of living far away from a major airport. Sure, your 1 flight per year and 8 flights in 4th year will be more expensive, but you’re rent will be cheap, cheap, cheap.

Minor point: 5% fail Step 2 CS. Yeah, they screw us too.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

Major point: Explain the “costs” of living far away from a major airport. Sure, your 1 flight per year and 8 flights in 4th year will be more expensive, but you’re rent will be cheap, cheap, cheap.

Minor point: 5% fail Step 2 CS. Yeah, they screw us too.

That sucks about the CS fail rate going up to 5%.

If you travel often the wear and tear on your car adds up, plus having to stay in a hotel if you get a really early (6am), cheap flight out.

Finally, I did my aways without having an apartment here so I wouldn't have to pay rent on top of the subletting cost to the people I was staying with and coming back to finish my rotations there were no short term leasing options in this rural area. I haggled a woman who just opened her house as an airbnb (there are 2 airbnb options here) to a more reasonable rate. Otherwise I would have had to sign a 6 month lease and move all my furniture back to this rural rotation site for 3 months of rotations. In a suburban area or mid sized city I could have found an affordable short-term stay option more easily. Plus I have to drive 45 minutes to find a Target, TJ Maxx, movie theater, mall, etc.

Some of our rural rotation sites were based 55 minutes from the hospitals and clinics we were rotating at. I am shocked my old car is still running after all that driving, although I've spent over $2k repairing it these past few years, not to mention gas money.

Finally, it's 2 hours to drive back to our school for tests and meetings which is also wear and tear and gas money.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

That sucks about the CS fail rate going up to 5%.

If you travel often the wear and tear on your car adds up, plus having to stay in a hotel if you get a really early (6am), cheap flight out.

Finally, I did my aways without having an apartment here so I wouldn't have to pay rent on top of the subletting cost to the people I was staying with and coming back to finish my rotations there were no short term leasing options in this rural area. I haggled a woman who just opened her house as an airbnb (there are 2 airbnb options here) to a more reasonable rate. Otherwise I would have had to sign a 6 month lease and move all my furniture back to this rural rotation site for 3 months of rotations. In a suburban area or mid sized city I could have found an affordable short-term stay option more easily. Plus I have to drive 45 minutes to find a Target, TJ Maxx, movie theater, mall, etc.

Some of our rural rotation sites were based 55 minutes from the hospitals and clinics we were rotating at. I am shocked my old car is still running after all that driving, although I've spent over $2k repairing it these past few years, not to mention gas money.

Finally, it's 2 hours to drive back to our school for tests and meetings which is also wear and tear and gas money.

For what I pay in rent for a 1 bedroom apartment in a mid-large size city, I could rent a 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom house with a 2 car garage in my small sized city where I grew up. Plus you probably don’t have to deal with the homeless sleeping in your med school. I legit had to eat lunch next to a homeless guy sleeping one time last year.

 

[Dr. Death]

Take CS as early as your school allows you to. No reason to put this BS off until the fall and hamstring yourself if you fall in the 5% that fails.

 

[Mass Effect]

Let's add up all the fees they don't tell you about up front:

1. Cost of OMM resources (Savarese or OME), COMBANK if your subscription expires and you have to renew.
3. If your school is one of the newer ones, the cost of mandatory board prep course they force you to use their osteopathic board-focused program instead of/in addition to UWorld. The one our school forced us to use was $1200 and was full of typos and factual errors.
4. Cost of additional board exams if you're taking both sets of boards.
5. Cost of living hours away from a major airport if your school and/or rotation sites are in a more rural location.
6. Cost of applying to away rotations through VSAS + fees paid to schools to "audition" at their program to make yourself known at programs that don't take many DOs. Some schools asked for as much as $250 for a month long rotation. One school even had me pay for MMR titers (not recommended by the CDC, btw) which cost me $200 since they weren't covered by my crappy plan and I was located in a rural area without a Labcorp.
7. Cost of retaking the COMLEX PE. Apparently 7-8% of all test takers fail. That's high compared to only 2% of test takers failing the USMLE Step 2 CS.
8. Cost of potentially not graduating on time because all the PE dates fill up and you have to retake the exam. This is actually happening to me right now and I'm terrified I won't refresh the NBOME scheduling site often enough to get a date before March 6th 2020.
9. Cost of booking a flight + hotel last minute because you have to score a last minute flight and hop on a plane within 24 hours to take the PE exam because there are only two testing centers and limited dates.

Feeling bitter and discouraged right now after failing the COMLEX PE as a 4th year who took it in December. If you know anyone taking it before March 6th, please let me know if they're willing to give up their date. It's going to be an expensive extra year of medical school otherwise. In spite of the great mentors and education I've received, I'm currently regretting taking this path instead of going to an MD school, to be quite honest.

I really hope you pass, but in fairness, most of these things have nothing to do with DO schools and everything to do with medical education. You'd find most of the same issues if you went to a rural MD school. Medical education is ridiculous and if the feds knew where that loan money we all want forgiven goes, I suspect things would change in a heartbeat.

For those reading, ALWAYS take your PE in the summer of fourth year to leave yourself ample time if you have to retake. Take it at the end of 3rd year if your school allows you to. I took mine in June right around the transition to 4th year. Don't ruin your 4th year experience by waiting to take it only to fail and be sweating bullets trying to get back in there for a retake.

 

[ciestar]

That sucks about the CS fail rate going up to 5%.

If you travel often the wear and tear on your car adds up, plus having to stay in a hotel if you get a really early (6am), cheap flight out.

Finally, I did my aways without having an apartment here so I wouldn't have to pay rent on top of the subletting cost to the people I was staying with and coming back to finish my rotations there were no short term leasing options in this rural area. I haggled a woman who just opened her house as an airbnb (there are 2 airbnb options here) to a more reasonable rate. Otherwise I would have had to sign a 6 month lease and move all my furniture back to this rural rotation site for 3 months of rotations. In a suburban area or mid sized city I could have found an affordable short-term stay option more easily. Plus I have to drive 45 minutes to find a Target, TJ Maxx, movie theater, mall, etc.

Some of our rural rotation sites were based 55 minutes from the hospitals and clinics we were rotating at. I am shocked my old car is still running after all that driving, although I've spent over $2k repairing it these past few years, not to mention gas money.

Finally, it's 2 hours to drive back to our school for tests and meetings which is also wear and tear and gas money.

yeah it wasnt too long ago where the CS scoring changed and the pass rate fell. Safe to assume neither exam is any better than the other. They both suck.

 

[ciestar]

I really hope you pass, but in fairness, most of these things have nothing to do with DO schools and everything to do with medical education. You'd find most of the same issues if you went to a rural MD school. Medical education is ridiculous and if the feds knew where that loan money we all want forgiven goes, I suspect things would change in a heartbeat.

For those reading, ALWAYS take your PE in the summer of fourth year to leave yourself ample time if you have to retake. Take it at the end of 3rd year if your school allows you to. I took mine in June right around the transition to 4th year. Don't ruin your 4th year experience by waiting to take it only to fail and be sweating bullets trying to get back in there for a retake.

this is legit something i tell anyone who will listen. Don’t push off CS/PE. Take it early and get it out of the way. It gives you time to retake if you happen to fail.

 

[DNC127]

Probably a lot due to preparedness, but in my circle it seems to be a pretty direct correlation: later step 2 is taken = worse results (for ck and cs)

No excuse to push it off. Ever. Take note youngins

 

[Dantrolene FC]

I agree with what has been said regarding when you take CS/PE. It is best to take these exams as early as possible because the further removed from your medicine and surgery rotations, the worse your skills will be.

I would recommend taking these exams early enough to retake if you fail, but late enough to not have to report that failed score on ERAS applications. I submitted my application before receiving my failing score, so I’m lucky because I imagine some programs may not have interviewed me if they knew.

 

[Kr#36]

This seems like a broad generalization based mostly on your own experience, not something about DO schools as a whole. I go to a DO school and #4 on your list is literally the only thing true in my situation.

It sucks that you failed your exam and the dates are full, or that rotations are farther away than you'd like. But none of that should come as a surprise. There was info available when you decided to attend that school about where rotations are located, and there was information about what is expected on the complex PE prior to taking it so you know what you need to do to pass. I have an endless list of gripes about osteopathic medicine but this seems like a biased attack on things that are within our control.

 

[austintr]

Surprised I haven't seen much about the crappy rotations some schools have. At my school (one of the more respected ones, if there is such a thing), I got a rotation track with 3 rotations an hour plus away from home. One month I was able to stay for free at a house the hospital owns, which was super nice. But the other two months (including this one), I've had to drive an hour and a half every day to the site. 60-70 miles each way really adds up. My car gets decent gas mileage @ ~25mpg and I still spend well over $60/week in gas and either get to miss a meal per day or have to eat on the road for another $40/week. Some MD schools probably have similar issues, but I imagine it's more prevalent at DO schools to have to drive so much 3rd year.

 

[ciestar]

Surprised I haven't seen much about the crappy rotations some schools have. At my school (one of the more respected ones, if there is such a thing), I got a rotation track with 3 rotations an hour plus away from home. One month I was able to stay for free at a house the hospital owns, which was super nice. But the other two months (including this one), I've had to drive an hour and a half every day to the site. 60-70 miles each way really adds up. My car gets decent gas mileage @ ~25mpg and I still spend well over $60/week in gas and either get to miss a meal per day or have to eat on the road for another $40/week. Some MD schools probably have similar issues, but I imagine it's more prevalent at DO schools to have to drive so much 3rd year.

my school has farther away sites but provides housing for those.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

This seems like a broad generalization based mostly on your own experience, not something about DO schools as a whole. I go to a DO school and #4 on your list is literally the only thing true in my situation.

It sucks that you failed your exam and the dates are full, or that rotations are farther away than you'd like. But none of that should come as a surprise. There was info available when you decided to attend that school about where rotations are located, and there was information about what is expected on the complex PE prior to taking it so you know what you need to do to pass. I have an endless list of gripes about osteopathic medicine but this seems like a biased attack on things that are within our control.

I’m glad you weren’t more affected by the issues I listed. We were not told about having to fork over $1200 for a mandatory, poor quality boards prep program when we signed on the dotted line. We were also not told about rotation sites being incredibly inconvenient. An hour commute every day for a month is not one that you expect when you read about the community rotation sites can which were appealing to me since I want to do some work in rural areas and advocate for better health policy to improve life tor people in these areas. My car is 2001 and I cannot afford to get another at this point so the long commutes impacted me perhaps more than some others.

I’m glad your school was totally transparent about everything. We were not told any of what I listed aside from the bit about double the board exams. The ramifications of being at a rural rotation site with commutes for almost every rotation because there wasn’t enough space available at our site was not known. And many of the inconveniences I listed you don’t think about unless they’re a problem.

There are so many things you can’t know to ask about unless you read the threads in the medical student section on SDN as a premed or you have a close friend or family member in medicine especially with regards to the cost of board prep materials that you have to renew. For example, I’d love to keep doing uworld until residency starts but I spent over $1000 on that program mandated by my school so there’s budget for it. Btw I did uworld instead of the crappy DO-oriented prep program and did just fine on Level 2 CE, so it was a complete waste.

I was easily impressed as a prospective applicant. Perhaps you were more aware of the budgetary (no, loans don’t always stretch to cover every expense) constraints or you have a financial safety net like your parents. If I had parents who could support me financially or lived close by, a lot of problems listed would not be issues. I’m not saying that to garner pity but I’m saying it’s just more to think about when every expense is a concern.

Keep in mind that a) I’m venting and b) the one currently putting the pieces back together. I hope what I listed can help bring to light issues other medical students may or may not face. Obviously not everything I said applies to every osteopathic student, but one should go into this process as an applicant asking about everything I listed so they make the right decision for them and plan things out more carefully.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

I secured a testing date thanks to the NBOME opening more dates. The squeaky wheel gets the grease is all I will say. Thank you to everyone who was supportive and shared with me their experiences.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

my school has farther away sites but provides housing for those.

You are very lucky! Would have saved a lot of trouble as a third year.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

Surprised I haven't seen much about the crappy rotations some schools have. At my school (one of the more respected ones, if there is such a thing), I got a rotation track with 3 rotations an hour plus away from home. One month I was able to stay for free at a house the hospital owns, which was super nice. But the other two months (including this one), I've had to drive an hour and a half every day to the site. 60-70 miles each way really adds up. My car gets decent gas mileage @ ~25mpg and I still spend well over $60/week in gas and either get to miss a meal per day or have to eat on the road for another $40/week. Some MD schools probably have similar issues, but I imagine it's more prevalent at DO schools to have to drive so much 3rd year.

Had a very similar experience to yours. Thanks for sharing.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

I really hope you pass, but in fairness, most of these things have nothing to do with DO schools and everything to do with medical education. You'd find most of the same issues if you went to a rural MD school. Medical education is ridiculous and if the feds knew where that loan money we all want forgiven goes, I suspect things would change in a heartbeat.

For those reading, ALWAYS take your PE in the summer of fourth year to leave yourself ample time if you have to retake. Take it at the end of 3rd year if your school allows you to. I took mine in June right around the transition to 4th year. Don't ruin your 4th year experience by waiting to take it only to fail and be sweating bullets trying to get back in there for a retake.

Agreed completely. A lot of what was listed applies to both.

Don’t put off your PE/CS, med studnts!

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

My heart goes out to you. I hope that things work out in the end and you are able to snag a slot and graduate on time to some slot.

My only advice is to call everyday at 7AM Philadelphia time and pray that someone will remember you from the office and give you a phone call for that last minute slot.

That’s what happened to me and I pray that the same fortune falls on you.

This is the best advice. Thank you for telling me to call. You are kind to share your story here.

 

[Epilepsy365]

I secured a testing date thanks to the NBOME opening more dates. The squeaky wheel gets the grease is all I will say. Thank you to everyone who was supportive and shared with me their experiences.

Go knock it out of the ballpark

 

[Kr#36]

@FutureSunnyDoc my post wasn't meant to slander you or diminish your concerns so hopefully it did not come across that way. My only point was to hopefully inform applicants that read it that your concerns don't necessarily apply to "DO schools." They are things they should know and research prior to attending any medical school. I agree with you that a lot of students dont know/dont think to ask about clinical rotation site locations etc. They should. The more we bring it to light the more informed applicants will be.

 

[Goro]

We were not told about having to fork over $1200 for a mandatory, poor quality boards prep program when we signed on the dotted line. We were also not told about rotation sites being incredibly inconvenient. An hour commute every day for a month is not one that you expect when you read about the community rotation sites can which were appealing to me since I want to do some work in rural areas and advocate for better health policy to improve life tor people in these areas.

We were not told any of what I listed aside from the bit about double the board exams. The ramifications of being at a rural rotation site with commutes for almost every rotation because there wasn’t enough space available at our site was not known. And many of the inconveniences I listed you don’t think about unless they’re a problem.

When you interviewed, did you not ask about these things???

 

[Prehealth1011]

I agree with what has been said regarding when you take CS/PE. It is best to take these exams as early as possible because the further removed from your medicine and surgery rotations, the worse your skills will be.

I would recommend taking these exams early enough to retake if you fail, but late enough to not have to report that failed score on ERAS applications. I submitted my application before receiving my failing score, so I’m lucky because I imagine some programs may not have interviewed me if they knew.

So August? I can’t think of a better time.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

When you interviewed, did you not ask about these things???

No. I was focused on trying try to make a good impression a gain admission! My mistake I guess. If I could do it over I’d do it differently.

 

[Epilepsy365]

When you interviewed, did you not ask about these things???

terrible advice. Auto rejection for you

 

[Epilepsy365]

So August? I can’t think of a better time.

Yes.

Your score will back back after MSPE at early Oct. A failure will get you in for a second run in late Oct for the result in late Nov.

If you fail twice, you can scramble in for a Dec spot somewhere for a results before ROL deadline. Won’t recommend this.

 

[Prehealth1011]

Yes.

Your score will back back after MSPE at early Oct. A failure will get you in for a second run in late Oct for the result in late Nov.

If you fail twice, you can scramble in for a Dec spot somewhere for a results before ROL deadline. Won’t recommend this.

Won't it be hard to find spots in October/November/December though?
That's the only potential negative i can think of considering how early these spots get booked.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Won't it be hard to find spots in October/November/December though?
That's the only potential negative i can think of considering how early these spots get booked.

If you fail, you need to burn 2 lbs of incense and call on the spirit of AT Stills at Conshoshocken to get you a spot.

 

[Prehealth1011]

If you fail, you need to burn 2 lbs of incense and call on the spirit of AT Stills at Conshoshocken to get you a spot.

Just gotta engage the barrier...and go for it.

 

[Mass Effect]

We were not told about having to fork over $1200 for a mandatory, poor quality boards prep program when we signed on the dotted line

How can your school force this? I don't understand. What is the name of the program?

terrible advice. Auto rejection for you

Why? It's about personal responsibility. No, the schools are not going to show you their dirty laundry on interview day. But they also won't lie to you when you ask. This is something you HAVE to do, not just for med school, but for undergrad, for residency, for fellowship, for attending jobs or really any job in any industry. Yes I know if you don't like a job you can always leave, but it's the point that matters -- you have to be your own advocate. You need to ask questions and determine whether or not you can put up with the BS to go to school there. No school is perfect.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

When you interviewed, did you not ask about these things???

Seriously goro? What premed thinks to ask about a mandatory board prep course. I don’t think any school was doing that when I applied, so why would I have asked. Nobody knows to ask any of these things unless it posted on places like SDN. It’s ridiculous to try and use ‘buyer beware’ when DO schools are constantly adjusting their curriculums and coming up with new ways to shaft students.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

How can your school force this? I don't understand. What is the name of the program?




Why? It's about personal responsibility. No, the schools are not going to show you their dirty laundry on interview day. But they also won't lie to you when you ask. This is something you HAVE to do, not just for med school, but for undergrad, for residency, for fellowship, for attending jobs or really any job in any industry. Yes I know if you don't like a job you can always leave, but it's the point that matters -- you have to be your own advocate. You need to ask questions and determine whether or not you can put up with the BS to go to school there. No school is perfect.

Lol, this has not been my experience. I have absolutely been lied to as a med and a premed interviewing.

 

[ooh a bean]

Lol, this has not been my experience. I have absolutely been lied to as a med and a premed interviewing.

+1

 

[Epilepsy365]

Why? It's about personal responsibility. No, the schools are not going to show you their dirty laundry on interview day. But they also won't lie to you when you ask. This is something you HAVE to do, not just for med school, but for undergrad, for residency, for fellowship, for attending jobs or really any job in any industry. Yes I know if you don't like a job you can always leave, but it's the point that matters -- you have to be your own advocate. You need to ask questions and determine whether or not you can put up with the BS to go to school there. No school is perfect.

Having been part of the med school adcom and done with residency interviews, what you said is more accepting starting at the residency application level. It is an absolute no-no for medical school application and land you straight up at the auto rejection pile for being an annoying dbag.

 

[Goro]

Seriously goro? What premed thinks to ask about a mandatory board prep course. I don’t think any school was doing that when I applied, so why would I have asked. Nobody knows to ask any of these things unless it posted on places like SDN. It’s ridiculous to try and use ‘buyer beware’ when DO schools are constantly adjusting their curriculums and coming up with new ways to shaft students.

Somebody who's going to dump $250K on a med school should at least have enough brains to ask the students about rotations.

At some part of this process, you have to go in eyes open.

The Board review course bit is questionable, I agree. Adult learners should be free to pick thier best Board resource.

At any rate, OP, you'll make it back as an attending.

 

[Mass Effect]

Seriously goro? What premed thinks to ask about a mandatory board prep course. I don’t think any school was doing that when I applied, so why would I have asked. Nobody knows to ask any of these things unless it posted on places like SDN. It’s ridiculous to try and use ‘buyer beware’ when DO schools are constantly adjusting their curriculums and coming up with new ways to shaft students.

Come on, you know that isn't true. No, most wouldn't ask about mandatory board prep, but I don't know of a single person who didn't ask about rotations. I don't know a person who didn't ask about study time for boards or mandatory attendance. These are standard questions you ask on interview day.

Having been part of the med school adcom and done with residency interviews, what you said is more accepting starting at the residency application level. It is an absolute no-no for medical school application and land you straight up at the auto rejection pile for being an annoying dbag.

Please name the school that would be assholish enough to reject someone for asking where rotations are.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

Come on, you know that isn't true. No, most wouldn't ask about mandatory board prep, but I don't know of a single person who didn't ask about rotations. I don't know a person who didn't ask about study time for boards or mandatory attendance. These are standard questions you ask on interview day.



Please name the school that would be assholish enough to reject someone for asking where rotations are.

I knew where the rotation sites were but didn’t know the rotations weren’t at the rotation sites. Some were up to 55 minutes away from them because they ran out of space for us all at the home sites. That’s a very particular question and it was a bit of a mess for our school to get straightened out. Doubt that this situation would’ve been conveyed transparently to interviewees.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

[

Come on, you know that isn't true. No, most wouldn't ask about mandatory board prep, but I don't know of a single person who didn't ask about rotations. I don't know a person who didn't ask about study time for boards or mandatory attendance. These are standard questions you ask on interview day.



Please name the school that would be assholish enough to reject someone for asking where rotations are.

I specifically asked about rotations prior to med school, and I agree most informed posters would. But for instance, I was not aware of how many core sites didn’t actually have all the cores at their site. It’s one thing to expect to have to go far for sites from the home school. It’s quite another when the expectation is that you should commute over an hour from the already far away core site to complete multiple mandatory rotations.

And my comment was mainly directed about the board prep course as an example of how things can change in ways that no one would be able to do ‘due diligence’ on.

 

[Mass Effect]

I knew where the rotation sites were but didn’t know the rotations weren’t at the rotation sites. Some were up to 55 minutes away from them because they ran out of space for us all at the home sites. That’s a very particular question and it was a bit of a mess for our school to get straightened out. Doubt that this situation would’ve been conveyed transparently to interviewees.

So this is a school issue, not a DO issue.

 

[Epilepsy365]

Come on, you know that isn't true. No, most wouldn't ask about mandatory board prep, but I don't know of a single person who didn't ask about rotations. I don't know a person who didn't ask about study time for boards or mandatory attendance. These are standard questions you ask on interview day.



Please name the school that would be assholish enough to reject someone for asking where rotations are.

All DO schools. Asking tough questions is a sign of a trouble maker. That applicant is not FITTED for the DO way. Pass.

 

[Mass Effect]

[

I specifically asked about rotations prior to med school, and I agree most informed posters would. But for instance, I was not aware of how many core sites didn’t actually have all the cores at their site. It’s one thing to expect to have to go far for sites from the home school. It’s quite another when the expectation is that you should commute over an hour from the already far away core site to complete multiple mandatory rotations.

And my comment was mainly directed about the board prep course as an example of how things can change in ways that no one would be able to do ‘due diligence’ on.

No one denied the mandatory board prep course was BS. But the OP listed several "hidden costs" and I just don't think all these things apply to "DO" schools in general. Many of them are specific to both DO and MD school and some the OP should have been aware of -- such as both boards.

 

[Mass Effect]

All DO schools. Asking tough questions is a sign of a trouble maker. That applicant is not FITTED for the DO way. Pass.

Absolutely, positively, 100% NOT true. I say this as someone who served on the adcom at one school and had say in another school.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

All DO schools. Asking tough questions is a sign of a trouble maker. That applicant is not FITTED for the DO way. Pass.

I agree that this is the mentality of most DO admin. And it doesn’t change after your accepted either.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

So this is a school issue, not a DO issue.

It happened at @BorntobeDO? ’s school too so that makes 2 schools that have this issue.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Absolutely, positively, 100% NOT true. I say this as someone who served on the adcom at one school and had say in another school.

Your school is clearly a different experience than mine and most students I have interacted with.