High stats applicant disappointed by interview invitations. What did I do wrong?

[opheliamg]

As my signature shows, I have a LM of about 79 (522 MCAT, 3.97 cGPA, 4.0 sGPA) and of 43 secondaries I've gotten 8 II's so far, from a mix of schools but only one T10 and one T20. I'm white, upper-middle class, and a PA resident. I have 500 hours of clinical volunteering, 100 non-clinical, 1500 research. I've seen lots of other applicants with similar stats get a way higher proportion of interview invites than me so far, and even applicants with lower stats doing better than me.

So I guess I just want to find out if my failure to get more and better II's is due to a red flag: perhaps bad LOR, or something off-putting in my PS or another part of my application? If it's just that my application isn't very good that's fine, I understand lots of people are more competitive than me, I'm just wondering if there's something crippling in my application that I'm not aware of.

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[RickyRic]

As my signature shows, I have a LM of about 79 (522 MCAT, 3.97 cGPA, 4.0 sGPA) and of 43 secondaries I've gotten 8 II's so far, from a mix of schools but only one T10 and one T20. I'm white, upper-middle class, and a PA resident. I have 500 hours of clinical volunteering, 100 non-clinical, 1500 research. I've seen lots of other applicants with similar stats get a way higher proportion of interview invites than me so far, and even applicants with lower stats doing better than me.

So I guess I just want to find out if my failure to get more and better II's is due to a red flag: perhaps bad LOR, or something off-putting in my PS or another part of my application? If it's just that my application isn't very good that's fine, I understand lots of people are more competitive than me, I'm just wondering if there's something crippling in my application that I'm not aware of.

95% sure this is a troll post

 

[mr-dookie]

haha this post rocks

 

[Premed35671]

95% sure this is a troll post

Sadly I don't think he is trolling.

 

[drbatsandwich]

You’re complaining about having 8 interviews. Maybe it’s.... your character?

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

As my signature shows, I have a LM of about 79 (522 MCAT, 3.97 cGPA, 4.0 sGPA) and of 43 secondaries I've gotten 8 II's so far, from a mix of schools but only one T10 and one T20. I'm white, upper-middle class, and a PA resident. I have 500 hours of clinical volunteering, 100 non-clinical, 1500 research. I've seen lots of other applicants with similar stats get a way higher proportion of interview invites than me so far, and even applicants with lower stats doing better than me.

So I guess I just want to find out if my failure to get more and better II's is due to a red flag: perhaps bad LOR, or something off-putting in my PS or another part of my application? If it's just that my application isn't very good that's fine, I understand lots of people are more competitive than me, I'm just wondering if there's something crippling in my application that I'm not aware of.

Can't simply tell by EC hours and stats. Quality of ECs varies from candidate to candidate and then personal statement.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

You’re complaining about having 8 interviews. Maybe it’s.... your character?

OP is complaining about T10 and T20s given their stats, so not a character issue.

 

[Moko]

So I guess I just want to find out if my failure to get more and better II's is due to a red flag: perhaps bad LOR, or something off-putting in my PS or another part of my application?

It's unlikely that there is a red flag in your application. If there was, you would not be sitting on 8 II's.

High stats only get you through the door, but it's the rest of the application that gets you the interview and eventual acceptance. Successful candidates to the 'top' schools will not only have high stats, but also a compelling narrative through extracurriculars, achievements, and stellar LORs (i.e the applicant is portrayed to 'walk on water'). There's nothing noteworthy about the hours you listed. It's possible that most of the 'top' schools have evaluated your application and deemed it falling short of one of these high measures, or perhaps you're already in queue for a future invite. Only time will tell.

Regardless, with 8 II's, you are on track to becoming a physician (barring terrible interview performances), so that should be something to be grateful for. I would encourage you to look at this from this perspective. Best of luck.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

stellar LORs (i.e the applicant is portrayed to 'walk on water').

Do very strong LORs or stellar LORs make big difference? I do think they make a difference but I also hear LORs don't move the needle much since most have strong LORs.

 

[Dr.K124]

As my signature shows, I have a LM of about 79 (522 MCAT, 3.97 cGPA, 4.0 sGPA) and of 43 secondaries I've gotten 8 II's so far, from a mix of schools but only one T10 and one T20. I'm white, upper-middle class, and a PA resident. I have 500 hours of clinical volunteering, 100 non-clinical, 1500 research. I've seen lots of other applicants with similar stats get a way higher proportion of interview invites than me so far, and even applicants with lower stats doing better than me.

So I guess I just want to find out if my failure to get more and better II's is due to a red flag: perhaps bad LOR, or something off-putting in my PS or another part of my application? If it's just that my application isn't very good that's fine, I understand lots of people are more competitive than me, I'm just wondering if there's something crippling in my application that I'm not aware of.

The majority of applicants would kill to be in your position. Please humble yourself and be happy with your success thus far.

 

[r2med]

As my signature shows, I have a LM of about 79 (522 MCAT, 3.97 cGPA, 4.0 sGPA) and of 43 secondaries I've gotten 8 II's so far, from a mix of schools but only one T10 and one T20. I'm white, upper-middle class, and a PA resident. I have 500 hours of clinical volunteering, 100 non-clinical, 1500 research. I've seen lots of other applicants with similar stats get a way higher proportion of interview invites than me so far, and even applicants with lower stats doing better than me.

So I guess I just want to find out if my failure to get more and better II's is due to a red flag: perhaps bad LOR, or something off-putting in my PS or another part of my application? If it's just that my application isn't very good that's fine, I understand lots of people are more competitive than me, I'm just wondering if there's something crippling in my application that I'm not aware of.

Almost similar situation. There is no point trying to figure out what might have been wrong. What would you do if you know now, unless you have a significant update now. Stay positive. Things will work out. A high stats high accomplishment friend of mine - last cycle (not even COVID) - did not get a single interview till March and is now attending a T20.

 

[Moko]

Do very strong LORs or stellar LORs make big difference? I do think they make a difference but I also hear LORs don't move the needle much since most have strong LORs.

From what I've observed, almost everyone who we've accepted to our school has stellar letters that gush over the candidate. At a minimum, students will have earned the highest ranking possible from their premed committee (if a committee letter is available), and have statements ranking them in the top 1-5% of students that the professors/PIs have ever taught. Anything less than this does stick out for the wrong reasons when the field is so competitive.

 

[opheliamg]

It's unlikely that there is a red flag in your application. If there was, you would not be sitting on 8 II's.

High stats only get you through the door, but it's the rest of the application that gets you the interview and eventual acceptance. Successful candidates to the 'top' schools will not only have high stats, but also a compelling narrative through extracurriculars, achievements, and stellar LORs (i.e the applicant is portrayed to 'walk on water'). There's nothing noteworthy about the hours you listed. It's possible that most of the 'top' schools have evaluated your application and deemed it falling short of one of these high measures, or perhaps you're already in queue for a future invite. Only time will tell.

Regardless, with 8 II's, you are on track to becoming a physician (barring terrible interview performances), so that should be something to be grateful for. I would encourage you to look at this from this perspective. Best of luck.

That's exactly what I'm thinking - not a super impressive story etc. Which is fair enough. And you're right, I really should be more positive. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[opheliamg]

Almost similar situation. There is no point trying to figure out what might have been wrong. What would you do if you know now, unless you have a significant update now. Stay positive. Things will work out. A high stats high accomplishment friend of mine - last cycle (not even COVID) - did not get a single interview till March and is now attending a T20.

Nice to hear from someone in a similar situation. Thank you!

 

[opheliamg]

The majority of applicants would kill to be in your position. Please humble yourself and be happy with your success thus far.

This is a fair statement. Thank you for the perspective.

 

[opheliamg]

haha this post rocks

I'm sorry if I offended you, I should have been more tactful in wording my post.

 

[mr-dookie]

I'm sorry if I offended you, I should have been more tactful in wording my post.

don’t worry opheliamg you did not offend me

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

From what I've observed, almost everyone who we've accepted to our school has stellar letters that gush over the candidate. At a minimum, students will have earned the highest ranking possible from their premed committee (if a committee letter is available), and have statements ranking them in the top 1-5% of students that the professors/PIs have ever taught. Anything less than this does stick out for the wrong reasons when the field is so competitive.

Are you at a T10 or T20 or T50 school?

 

[proudofmykids]

Any shadowing hours with a primary care physician?

 

[Lifeblood_20]

As someone who is also feeling a bit insecure about my # of interviews, I understand your worries to an extent. But given how stressful this process already is, I think worrying about what's already out of your control is not productive. What we can control now is doing well on interviews and keep improving ourselves as an applicant and as a person

 

[7thAndLASTPoopoftheDay]

As my signature shows, I have a LM of about 79 (522 MCAT, 3.97 cGPA, 4.0 sGPA) and of 43 secondaries I've gotten 8 II's so far, from a mix of schools but only one T10 and one T20. I'm white, upper-middle class, and a PA resident. I have 500 hours of clinical volunteering, 100 non-clinical, 1500 research. I've seen lots of other applicants with similar stats get a way higher proportion of interview invites than me so far, and even applicants with lower stats doing better than me.

So I guess I just want to find out if my failure to get more and better II's is due to a red flag: perhaps bad LOR, or something off-putting in my PS or another part of my application? If it's just that my application isn't very good that's fine, I understand lots of people are more competitive than me, I'm just wondering if there's something crippling in my application that I'm not aware of.

It seems that self-awareness is NOT in fact a required trait to become a physician.

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm sorry if I offended you, I should have been more tactful in wording my post.

TBH, it's not the wording, it's the lack of humility in the post - i.e., look at my stats, where are my T10 and T20 IIs? Ironically, you answered your own question in your OP. "I understand lots of people are more competitive than me." Highly competitive process + lots of candidates more competitive than you = few IIs. And, 8 IIs is way above average, as are your stats. So, no matter how you word it, the OP is whiny and entitled.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

TBH, it's not the wording, it's the lack of humility in the post - i.e., look at my stats, where are my T10 and T20 IIs? Ironically, you answered your own question in your OP. "I understand lots of people are more competitive than me." Highly competitive process, lots of candidates more competitive than you = few IIs. And, 8 IIs is way above average, as are your stats. So, no matter how you word it, the OP is whiny and entitled.

so if you have similar or higher stats and get similar results you won't whine here or privately? Nothing wrong with feeling disappointed and seeking answers!

 

[KnightDoc]

so if you have similar or higher stats and get similar results you won't whine here or privately? Nothing wrong with feeling disappointed and seeking answers!

No, no, no, no, no. You might think you know me, but you have no idea how deeply I suffer from imposter syndrome. My low expectations are part of the reason why I ended up not going forward this year.

Unlike OP, I expect nothing, and would NEVER complain if I were fortunate enough to have 8 IIs. I would never apply to a school I had no interest in attending, would never be disappointed by any II received, and, while I have dream schools in my head (like most people), I have absolutely zero sense of entitlement, so would never post "look at my stats, where are my T10 IIs?"

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

No, no, no, no, no. You might think you know me, but you have no idea how deeply I suffer from imposter syndrome. My low expectations are part of the reason why ended up not going forward this year.

Unlike OP, I expect nothing, and would NEVER complain if I were fortunate enough to have 8 IIs. I would never apply to a school I had no interest in attending, would never be disappointed by any II received, and, while I have dream schools in my head (like most people), I have absolutely zero sense of entitlement, so would never post "look at my stats, where are my T10 IIs?"

Hard to believe but I don't expect you to be in that position given all the knowledge you accumulate here

 

[KnightDoc]

Hard to believe but I don't expect you to be in that position given all the knowledge you accumulate here

I really hope you are right, but lots of people accumulate knowledge here. I still have to apply and have to deal with the fact that a TON of people are more impressive than I am, no much how much knowledge I picked up here. I'm way better off than I was two years ago, but all my knowledge has told me that there are absolutely no guarantees here and a lot of very highly qualified applicants end up very disappointed each year. I pray I am not one of them, but can't know without going through it.

 

[opheliamg]

Are you at a T10 or T20 or T50 school?

US citizen going to school in another country, probably comparable to T20

 

[opheliamg]

As someone who is also feeling a bit insecure about my # of interviews, I understand your worries to an extent. But given how stressful this process already is, I think worrying about what's already out of your control is not productive. What we can control now is doing well on interviews and keep improving ourselves as an applicant and as a person

Thank you for the response! Also love your RBG quote

 

[proudofmykids]

30hrs sounds fine given covid.

 

[opheliamg]

TBH, it's not the wording, it's the lack of humility in the post - i.e., look at my stats, where are my T10 and T20 IIs? Ironically, you answered your own question in your OP. "I understand lots of people are more competitive than me." Highly competitive process, lots of candidates more competitive than you = few IIs. And, 8 IIs is way above average, as are your stats. So, no matter how you word it, the OP is whiny and entitled.

I'm sorry I came off as whiny and entitled! Was really just trying to see if my number of interviews compared to applications are indicative of a red flag given my stats - and can see at the same time why I'd come off that way given the topic.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

US citizen going to school in another country, probably comparable to T20

so your experiences and LORs are outside US?

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm sorry I came off as whiny and entitled! Was really just trying to see if my number of interviews compared to applications are indicative of a red flag given my stats - and can see at the same time why I'd come off that way given the topic.

Absolutely no need to apologize. I was just trying to shed light on why the thread is generating the reaction it is. How do you define red flag? -- you have 8 IIs. You also seem to be aware that your app is lacking ("I understand lots of people are more competitive than me").

As you probably know, stats are great, but they are not everything. So, no red flag, but your app is apparently not generally strong enough for T10 and 20. This is further evidenced by the fact that you are not being yield protected out by lower ranked schools, which your stats indicate would be expected if you had a stronger application.

The great news is that your superlative stats and the rest of your application have so far produced 8 IIs, and counting. So, you will almost certainly wind up with a few As. Maybe you will even cash in one of your two T20 chips.

Beyond that, no red flags. It's just that your application is apparently not strong enough to generate 10 T20 IIs, even with your stats. No shame there. It is what it is. Just try to keep in mind that you are posting to an audience that, for the most part, would love to be in your position, so complaining about it is not a good look.

 

[opheliamg]

Absolutely no need to apologize. I was just trying to shed light on why the thread is generating the reaction it is. How do you define red flag -- you have 8 IIs. You also seem to be aware that you app is lacking ("I understand lots of people are more competitive than me").

As you probably know, stats are great, but they are not everything. So, no red flag, but you app is apparently not generally strong enough for T10 and 20. This is further evidenced by the fact that you are not being yield protected out by lower ranked schools, which your stats indicate would be expected if you had a stronger application.

The great news is that your superlative stats and the rest of your application have so far produced 8 IIs, and counting. So, you will almost certainly wind up with a few As. Maybe you will even cash in one of your two T20 chips.

Beyond that, no red flags. It's just that your application is apparently not strong enough to generate 10 T20 IIs, even with your stats. No shame there. It is what it is. Just try to keep in mind that you are posting to an audience that, for the most part, would love to be in your position, so complaining about it is not a good look.

Thank you for your answer, this is super helpful! And you're right, this was not a wise post to make in hindsight, I would be upset if I read this and the shoe were on the other foot.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

basically don't ever come to SDN complaining about lack of T20 IIs, right @KnightDoc ?

 

[KnightDoc]

basically don't ever come to SDN complaining about lack of T20 IIs, right @KnightDoc ?

Pretty much. It reeks of entitlement. How many times do the wise @gonnif and @Goro ask applicants whether they want to be a doctor or a T20 doctor? In the year and a half I have been participating, I can't remember a single time anyone responded "T20 doctor."

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Pretty much. It reeks of entitlement. How many times do the wise @gonnif and @Goro ask applicants whether they want to be a doctor or a T20 doctor? In the year and a half I have been participating, I can't remember a single time anyone responded "T20 doctor."

They are afraid to say that given responses you see here. Lot of kids (including mine) have aspirations to go to so called T20s and work hard and feel disappointed if they don't get in. I don't think that reeks of entitlement.

 

[gonnif]

They are afraid to say that given responses you see here. Lot of kids (including mine) have aspirations to go to so called T20s and work hard and feel disappointed if they don't get in. I don't think that reeks of entitlement.

The is precisely what entitlement is. They get disappointment from the hope and expectation to be in one.
[

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

The is precisely what entitlement is. They get disappointment from the hope and expectation to be in one.
[

How is hope derived from hard work with measured results (like stats) can be called entitlement?

 

[KnightDoc]

They are afraid to say that given responses you see here. Lot of kids (including mine) have aspirations to go to so called T20s and work hard and feel disappointed if they don't get in. I don't think that reeks of entitlement.

Well, you're wrong. That said, since they are afraid to admit it when asking their questions, they should also be afraid to start threads like this. It's a bad look, and I have news for you, which I am surprised you don't know as a parent who supposedly has some experience -- hard work and aspirations aren't always enough, and, at the end of the day, none of us is "entitled" to anything we don't earn. And, if you're not "entitled" to it, there is nothing to complain about if it isn't achieved.

The place to whine about it isn't a public forum where the vast majority of folks not only don't have a T20 admission, but also don't have 8 IIs. It's better to save the expressions of disappointment over having to settle for 8 IIs that only include one T10 and one T20 for the @EdgeTrimmer family dinner table.

 

[gonnif]

Pretty much. It reeks of entitlement. How many times do the wise @gonnif and @Goro ask applicants whether they want to be a doctor or a T20 doctor? In the year and a half I have been participating, I can't remember a single time anyone responded "T20 doctor."

I have multiple over the years who have come to me saying "I only want to go to Harvard, Stanford, etc." I try to tell them otherwise but often its "Ok, just apply to those." It is amazing how a year and no acceptances will change an applicant's perspective.

 

[KnightDoc]

How is hope derived from hard work with measured results (like stats) can be called entitlement?

It isn't. Hope is fine. Whining over a failure to realize that hope is where the entitlement comes in. Entitlement is complaining about not getting something it turns out you are not good enough to get, whatever it is. Most of us would like to go to the best school, in the best location, with the best financial aid package we can obtain.

"Best" is different for each of us. Most don't suffer from such a lack of self-awareness that we post in a public forum over our profound disappointment in "only" having 8 IIs, with one T10 and one T20, on November 5th. Good news you're not applying, and that this apparently doesn't apply to your kid (or is he the OP???? ), otherwise you or he would be starting such a clueless thread.

Being self motivated is GREAT. However, it's probably wise to keep your disappointment over not being good enough to get wherever it is you wanted to go to yourself when you are still achieving at a much higher level than the vast majority of your peer group. And, if you actually think you are better than everyone else achieving at or above your level, well, that's part of the problem now, isn't it?

People who work their a**es off, sometimes over multiple cycles, and have nothing to show for it might have something to complain about. Not some some high stat applicant who has gaps somewhere else in an application who doesn't get to go to their dream T10 or T20 school, and has to "settle" for a MD somewhere else. It's the difference between humility and entitlement.

I'm sorry you don't understand it. You can rest assured that I am acutely aware of the gaps in my application. It is my sincere hope that I will be able to overcome them. But rest assured, I have no sense of entitlement if it turns out that I can't, although I will, of course, be disappointed.

 

[KnightDoc]

I have multiple over the years who have come to me saying "I only want to go to Harvard, Stanford, etc." I try to tell them otherwise but often its "Ok, just apply to those." It is amazing how a year and no acceptances will change an applicant's perspective.

I'm sure, but the people who post on SDN don't say that to you publicly, or have I missed that??

 

[tunaktunak]

Only 8 II's?! Pack that sunscreen ASAP; those are rookie numbers

/s

 

[gonnif]

I'm sure, but the people who post on SDN don't say that to you publicly, or have I missed that??

I recall a couple of times over the years people ignoring advice and saying the are applying to the top schools. They normally dont come back and say I screwed up, though I recall one who did. But this was several cycles ago

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Well, you're wrong. That said, since they are afraid to admit it when asking their questions, they should also be afraid to start threads like this. It's a bad look, and I have news for you, which I am surprised you don't know as a parent who supposedly has some experience -- hard work and aspirations aren't always enough, and, at the end of the day, none of us is "entitled" to anything we don't earn. And, if you're not "entitled" to it, there is nothing to complain about if it isn't achieved.

The place to whine about it isn't a public forum where the vast majority of folks not only don't have a T20 admission, but also don't have 8 IIs. It's better to save the expressions of disappointment over having to settle for 8 IIs that only include one T10 and one T20 for the @EdgeTrimmer family dinner table.

Again my issue rushing to put entitlement tag on OP for expressing some disappointment on an anonymous forum. You can always ignore threads based on the title

fortunately our family doesn't have to engage in the discussion you are suggesting.

 

[KnightDoc]

Again my issue rushing to put entitlement tag on OP for expressing some disappointment on an anonymous forum. You can always ignore threads based on the title

fortunately our family doesn't have to engage in the discussion you are suggesting.

No rush in applying the tag. The OP speaks for itself. "I understand lots of people are more competitive than me," but I have high stats and don't understand why I only have 8 IIs and only one T10 and one T20 is the very definition of an obnoxious entitlement post, which is why some people thought it was a troll. No rush to label. Again, it speaks for itself. Not sure why you feel the need to justify and defend it. Even OP gets it now!!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I recall a couple of times over the years people ignoring advice and saying the are applying to the top schools. They normally dont come back and say I screwed up, though I recall one who did. But this was several cycles ago

As per advice, everyone gives different opinions and one should figure out which one to take. For example for my kid, one adcom here said his listing is too top heavy and should target different schools but his premed advisor said he should aim high and he went with that. So far 70% of IIs are from so called T10s (I am not going to give the #s of IIs).

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

No rush in applying the tag. The OP speaks for itself. "I understand lots of people are more competitive than me," but I have high stats and don't understand why I only have 8 IIs and only one T10 and one T20 is the very definition of an obnoxious entitlement post, which is why some people thought it was a troll. No rush to label. Again, it speaks for itself. Not sure why you feel the need to justify and defend it. Even OP gets it now!!

You know only I will continue discussions with you, others bail out quickly

 

[KnightDoc]

As per advice, everyone gives different opinions and one should figure out which one to take. For example for my kid, one adcom here said his listing is too top heavy and should target different schools but his premed advisor said he should aim high and he went with that. So far 70% of IIs are from so called T10s (I am not going to give the #s of IIs).

But that's very different from only applying T10 because you don't want to go if you can't go there.

 

[KnightDoc]

You know only I will continue discussions with you, others bail out quickly

It's why I love you!!!