Hofstra's potential ranking 4 years from now?

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secretje

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I am interested in what the community thinks of Hofstra and how much potential it has to be a strong school four years down the road? What schools do you guys think it is comparable to now? and what schools do you think it will be compared to 4 years from now?

Also side question: what do you think about its research?

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Who cares? Are you really that obsessed with ranking?


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To be honest, I may attend Hofstra, and because it is a new school, I don't want to make a bad decision choosing an institution that may not do well in residency matching. I know prestige to some level matters to residency matching so I'm interested in others' opinions and insight on this school.
 
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If we're opening up this can of worms, how do you guys see TCMC's ranking changing in 4 years, since Geisinger has taken over?

P.S.
Don't kill me since I actually love the school and am eternally grateful to have been accepted. I'm just curious
 
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I am interested in what the community thinks of Hofstra and how much potential it has to be a strong school four years down the road? What schools do you guys think it is comparable to now? and what schools do you think it will be compared to 4 years from now?

Also side question: what do you think about its research?

It's already strong and is only going to get a lot stronger in a couple of years. The school is part of the Northwell system now, which is the largest health system in NYS. Northwell has a huge network and as a med student, you get access to many resources. There are many hospitals for you to choose from if you're interested in shadowing and clinical research. If you're interested in basic science, Hofstra has been sending over many med students to the Feinstein Institute (next to North Shore University Hospital).

I've personally worked with a few Hofstra med students and they're all really chill and obviously very smart. I've been told their match list is strong with many of the students matching into competitive specialties. When it comes to prestige, they're not quite there yet because they're new, but trust me, Northwell is all about building its brand. If you've heard the CEO of the health system and Feinstein speak, they're all about the prestige and getting money lol... and they're VERY good at getting funding.

As of right now, the adcom are focused on applicants with high LizzyMs to build reputation. The students are pretty happy with the school and tell me they all come from very unique backgrounds. One of them told me a classmate was an Olympian. The only cons that I heard was that a car was necessary to get around Long Island. Also their exams aren't multiple choice. They're actually essays and take a very long time to grade. Other than that, if you do well on boards and have a good app, all residencies are open to you, as with any US MD school that you attend.
 
I am interested in what the community thinks of Hofstra and how much potential it has to be a strong school four years down the road? What schools do you guys think it is comparable to now? and what schools do you think it will be compared to 4 years from now?

Also side question: what do you think about its research?

I graduated form Stonybrook about 10 years ago so take my opinion with a grain of a salt...To begin with, what academic medical center are they currently affiliated with? I also grew up on Long Island, back then NSLIJ (now Northwell) were community based teaching sites for academic medical centers such as NYU or Cornell and Hofstra was similar to CW Post in terms of undergrad (over-priced and basically mediocre)...Also their cost of attendance is out of control, 300-320K?! I would carefully review their recent match lists...rule of thumb is that your debt should not exceed your expected 1st year income out of training (e.g. as an attending)
 
Odds of meaningful change in just a few years is small. I'd go in assuming it will still be regarded similarly when you're applying to residencies. As with most new schools it's currently on the lower end of MD schools
 
I graduated form Stonybrook about 10 years ago so take my opinion with a grain of a salt...To begin with, what academic medical center are they currently affiliated with? I also grew up on Long Island, back then NSLIJ (now Northwell) were community based teaching sites for academic medical centers such as NYU or Cornell and Hofstra was similar to CW Post in terms of undergrad (over-priced and basically mediocre)...Also their cost of attendance is out of control, 300-320K?! I would carefully review their recent match lists...rule of thumb is that your debt should not exceed your expected 1st year income out of training (e.g. as an attending)

Regarding debt, one of the students told me their loans were subsidized and had 0% interest rate. That's not a bad deal 😱
 
Regarding debt, one of the students told me their loans were subsidized and had 0% interest rate. That's not a bad deal 😱

I don't think that is possible... if anyone knows how this is possible, please let me know asap!! In my experience, 0% interest falls into the same category as "there's no such thing as a free lunch." Someone, somewhere, is paying for it. And I am going to venture to say that it's that med student through the sticker price or scholarship
 
I don't think that is possible... if anyone knows how this is possible, please let me know asap!! In my experience, 0% interest falls into the same category as "there's no such thing as a free lunch." Someone, somewhere, is paying for it. And I am going to venture to say that it's that med student through the sticker price or scholarship

Of course it goes to the ones that qualify for it whether it's need-based or merit scholarship. But the school doesn't worry too much about finances cuz Northwell is dead set on building them up so they can elevate the brand via medical education and research. Also, they accept a good amount of Long Island people. Many of whom come from a very strong financial background. Them med students be driving mercedes and bmws to the hospital and I'm jelly :bigtears:
 
Regarding debt, one of the students told me their loans were subsidized and had 0% interest rate. That's not a bad deal 😱

Subsidized by who? Their parents? I have never heard of 0% interest rate for a loan, what's in it for the lender?...I took out government loans when interest rates were low (3%)...regardless you need to look at their average indebtedness to get a better idea, for instance Stonybrook's was 164K for 2014
 
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http://medicine.hofstra.edu/students/new/students_matchday.html

They match heavily into their own program - either their students really like it there or other programs aren't opening their arms wide open for Hofstra grads just yet. Regardless, Hofstra is in a reputable hospital system; I personally wouldn't want to go there, but luckily, I didn't need to make that choice
 
I think it has a pretty good reputation regionally but not as known nationally. Ranking is irrelevant but their grads seem to be pretty solid.
 
Subsidized by who? Their parents? I have never heard of 0% interest rate for a loan, what's in it for the lender?...I took out government loans when interest rates were low (3%)...regardless you need to look at their average indebtedness to get a better idea, for instance Stonybrook's was 164K for 2014

subsidized by Hofstra and or Northwell. It's an institutional loan that you qualify for. Not a government loan. Since Northwell is supporting the med school as well, it's not hard to give that money away as an incentive to attract strong applicants to be part of their first few incoming class. Couple million dollars is like a rounding error for Northwell... They still care about the money, but like I said, they're a growing brand that's not afraid to spend the money when needed.
 
I don't think that is possible... if anyone knows how this is possible, please let me know asap!! In my experience, 0% interest falls into the same category as "there's no such thing as a free lunch." Someone, somewhere, is paying for it. And I am going to venture to say that it's that med student through the sticker price or scholarship
Subsidized by who? Their parents? I have never heard of 0% interest rate for a loan, what's in it for the lender?...I took out government loans when interest rates were low (3%)...regardless you need to look at their average indebtedness to get a better idea, for instance Stonybrook's was 164K for 2014
You can take out a private1k loan from their hospital system that doesn't accumulate interest. It's only 1k from what I remember
 
You can take out a private1k loan from their hospital system that doesn't accumulate interest. It's only 1k from what I remember
1K? Do you mean 100K?...regardless even an interest free loan, 300K is significant debt (though a great deal), I would look to see specific conditions of the loan (e.g.. can you take 20-30 years to pay off)...their match list looked decent to me
 
1K? Do you mean 100K?...regardless even an interest free loan, 300K is significant debt (though a great deal), I would look to see specific conditions of the loan (e.g.. can you take 20-30 years to pay off)...their match list looked decent to me

Not sure about the loan details, but many Hofstra med students already list North Shore as a top choice because it's known to have the highest residency salary with great benefits. I'm not really sure why they would care about a couple extra thousand dollars during residency since it won't make much of a difference in their 300k debt with or without interest.
 
Not sure about the loan details, but many Hofstra med students already list North Shore as a top choice because it's known to have the highest residency salary with great benefits. I'm not really sure why they would care about a couple extra thousand dollars during residency since it won't make much of a difference in their 300k debt with or without interest.

Not going to lie, I interviewed there and the high salary was a big bonus. Plus they feed you well and you work in what looks like a really nice hotel. If a hospital is going to try to push their doctors into a service oriented role with customer satisfaction scores, they should at least have the decency to look the part.
 
This is about as easy to answer as "Who will be elected president in 2020?"

Look, if you like Hofstra, and want to go there, just go. I grew up about 10 mins from there. The deli food and pizza are to die for.



I am interested in what the community thinks of Hofstra and how much potential it has to be a strong school four years down the road? What schools do you guys think it is comparable to now? and what schools do you think it will be compared to 4 years from now?

Also side question: what do you think about its research?
 
IF you like the school then go to it. I personally would prefer stony brook or downstate the cheaper and more established state schools
 
1K? Do you mean 100K?...regardless even an interest free loan, 300K is significant debt (though a great deal), I would look to see specific conditions of the loan (e.g.. can you take 20-30 years to pay off)...their match list looked decent to me
No I actually mean 1k lol. It was a 4 figure number for sure. And I believe it's per year. They went over it during interview day and actually had one of the better financial aid presentations out of the schools i interviewed at.

I guess I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure it's in the packet from interview day if anyone wants to check.
 
No I actually mean 1k lol. It was a 4 figure number for sure. And I believe it's per year. They went over it during interview day and actually had one of the better financial aid presentations out of the schools i interviewed at.

I guess I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure it's in the packet from interview day if anyone wants to check.
Yeah, it was four figures. I remember it being $5000 interest-free loan given in addition to need-based grants and some other subsidized and unsubsidized loans.

Average indebtedness was definitely not 300k.

edit: 119k according to MSAR, which I believe is below average (vs 166k at Stony Brook @vm26 @edawgmd)
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't their matriculant mcat average a 34? I'm sure it's a good school
 
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't their matriculant mcat average a 34? I'm sure it's a good school

They specifically pick students with high #'s (especially MCAT) since those quantifiable statistics can be easily read when someone is trying to figure out a school's prestige. It is a good school, but its MCAT score is definitely inflated compared to its prestige. To give you an idea of this, UNC has an average MCAT of 31. Pitt 33. UCSD 34. Brown 33.
 
It's already strong and is only going to get a lot stronger in a couple of years. The school is part of the Northwell system now, which is the largest health system in NYS. Northwell has a huge network and as a med student, you get access to many resources. There are many hospitals for you to choose from if you're interested in shadowing and clinical research. If you're interested in basic science, Hofstra has been sending over many med students to the Feinstein Institute (next to North Shore University Hospital).

I've personally worked with a few Hofstra med students and they're all really chill and obviously very smart. I've been told their match list is strong with many of the students matching into competitive specialties. When it comes to prestige, they're not quite there yet because they're new, but trust me, Northwell is all about building its brand. If you've heard the CEO of the health system and Feinstein speak, they're all about the prestige and getting money lol... and they're VERY good at getting funding.

As of right now, the adcom are focused on applicants with high LizzyMs to build reputation. The students are pretty happy with the school and tell me they all come from very unique backgrounds. One of them told me a classmate was an Olympian. The only cons that I heard was that a car was necessary to get around Long Island. Also their exams aren't multiple choice. They're actually essays and take a very long time to grade. Other than that, if you do well on boards and have a good app, all residencies are open to you, as with any US MD school that you attend.

Sounds like someone who's been eyeing this school or already attends...I will grant that much of what you say is accurate. Northwell is indeed a monster of a health system and they have a keen nose for the business of medicine, but don't let the quantity and success of Northwell confuse you with educational and administrative capacity of Hofstra SOM. For a system with 6 or 8 billion in revenues or whatever it was last year, Hofstra SOM is just a pet project to them. They threw 250m at Hofstra and lo' and behold -- a med school!

The success of that school has yet to be determined. My experience with a few of the medical students from Hofstra has thus far been unimpressive. I don't know if it is a result of their culture or what -- but many have had very poor work ethic and entitlement issues, which to a surgical program is anathema.

People have been pretty bullish about Hofstra since it opened. I expect it will continue to be regarded well.

As Warren Buffett says, when people are greedy be fearful... when people are fearful, be greedy. So... I'm bearish and have my private reasons for it.

Not going to lie, I interviewed there and the high salary was a big bonus. Plus they feed you well and you work in what looks like a really nice hotel. If a hospital is going to try to push their doctors into a service oriented role with customer satisfaction scores, they should at least have the decency to look the part.

You think Northwell is a nice hotel? Hahahahahahah. You need to check out places like Northwestern and Stanford. I'm surprised at how insular New Yorkers are with regard to their expectations of medical facilities. I intereviewed at Northwell, Cornell, Columbia, and a bunch of other places, none of them had interiors worth writing home about. At least the lobby of these places are shiny and alluring.

This is about as easy to answer as "Who will be elected president in 2020?"

Look, if you like Hofstra, and want to go there, just go. I grew up about 10 mins from there. The deli food and pizza are to die for.

Really? Cuz I thought land tax and LIE traffic was to die for... =P

IF you like the school then go to it. I personally would prefer stony brook or downstate the cheaper and more established state schools

Stonybrook seems pretty solid. I've now met two Downstate residents who repeatedly almost killed patients and didn't even know it. I don't like supervising junior residents like that. I vote no confidence on Downstate.
 
Sounds like someone who's been eyeing this school or already attends...I will grant that much of what you say is accurate. Northwell is indeed a monster of a health system and they have a keen nose for the business of medicine, but don't let the quantity and success of Northwell confuse you with educational and administrative capacity of Hofstra SOM. For a system with 6 or 8 billion in revenues or whatever it was last year, Hofstra SOM is just a pet project to them. They threw 250m at Hofstra and lo' and behold -- a med school!

Haha I do feel like I sound like a Hofstra/Northwell spokesperson, but no I am not a student. Yes I have been eyeing this school, but I'm still a bit salty about them rejecting me 3 times on the same exact date :yeahright:... Just trying to help answer the question by sharing my personal experience after working at Northwell for quite some time. You're right that most of their projects are for upgrading the brand and Hofstra SOM might just be a pet. However if they don't throw resources to make sure students succeed, there's no way to make the money back nor establish prestige. I wouldn't worry too much. The med students I worked with were the exact opposite. As with Downstate students, I have spoken to attendings who raved about how great they were and how they knew everything compared to Columbia students. So really it's the luck of the draw with these students and up to the individual.
 
Sounds like someone who's been eyeing this school or already attends...I will grant that much of what you say is accurate. Northwell is indeed a monster of a health system and they have a keen nose for the business of medicine, but don't let the quantity and success of Northwell confuse you with educational and administrative capacity of Hofstra SOM. For a system with 6 or 8 billion in revenues or whatever it was last year, Hofstra SOM is just a pet project to them. They threw 250m at Hofstra and lo' and behold -- a med school!

The success of that school has yet to be determined. My experience with a few of the medical students from Hofstra has thus far been unimpressive. I don't know if it is a result of their culture or what -- but many have had very poor work ethic and entitlement issues, which to a surgical program is anathema.



As Warren Buffett says, when people are greedy be fearful... when people are fearful, be greedy. So... I'm bearish and have my private reasons for it.



You think Northwell is a nice hotel? Hahahahahahah. You need to check out places like Northwestern and Stanford. I'm surprised at how insular New Yorkers are with regard to their expectations of medical facilities. I intereviewed at Northwell, Cornell, Columbia, and a bunch of other places, none of them had interiors worth writing home about. At least the lobby of these places are shiny and alluring.



Really? Cuz I thought land tax and LIE traffic was to die for... =P



Stonybrook seems pretty solid. I've now met two Downstate residents who repeatedly almost killed patients and didn't even know it. I don't like supervising junior residents like that. I vote no confidence on Downstate.

Stanford didn't want me to visit and I can't afford to go to California just to say hello. I've seen Duke and the Brigham which looked nice. Penn is also pretty, I was very impressed with their children's hospital. But you're right, Columbia is one of the ugliest places I've ever been to.
 
C'mon caffe, people in the know use the Northern State Pkwy, not that parking lot called the LIE.



Really? Cuz I thought land tax and LIE traffic was to die for... =P

Northern State is usually good, but idk why people have a tendency to brake from 65 to 5 mph when taking an exit... And uh if you use it often, make sure you have tires/rims insurance for all them pot holes. Not that I have had any experience like these. I'm obviously a pro driver....
 
C'mon caffe, people in the know use the Northern State Pkwy, not that parking lot called the LIE.



Really? Cuz I thought land tax and LIE traffic was to die for... =P

People in the know take the LIRR and stay the night in Manhattan, Goro. YOU should know that. Damn bridge and tunnelers =p.
 
Yeah, it was four figures. I remember it being $5000 interest-free loan given in addition to need-based grants and some other subsidized and unsubsidized loans.

Average indebtedness was definitely not 300k.

edit: 119k according to MSAR, which I believe is below average (vs 166k at Stony Brook @vm26 @edawgmd)

cost of in-state (4 year total) at SB is 240K***, for Hofstra its 315K...so for Hofstra to have lower debt is impressive (either more scholarships and/or more students not in need of loans)

***tuition at SB is now about 35K! I graduated about 10 years ago, as a 1st year tuition was 12k, as a 4th year it was around 16k, times have changed
 
Northern State is usually good, but idk why people have a tendency to brake from 65 to 5 mph when taking an exit... And uh if you use it often, make sure you have tires/rims insurance for all them pot holes. Not that I have had any experience like these. I'm obviously a pro driver....

Oh my god this **** kills me. And they take forever to merge into the exit lane so they block you while you brake with them. Infuriating. We need to make highway driving, use of blinkers and merging a mandatory part of driving tests because no one seems to have figured it out.
 
Stanford didn't want me to visit and I can't afford to go to California just to say hello. I've seen Duke and the Brigham which looked nice. Penn is also pretty, I was very impressed with their children's hospital. But you're right, Columbia is one of the ugliest places I've ever been to.


15-vagelos-education-center-1.w710.h473.2x.jpg
 
Like I said, ritzy lobby, not the facilities where the patients stay and where you'll work. Hopefully they've built more or renovated.

This is a post about medical school, right? Well, that is our new med school building. Newest anatomy lab and sim center in the city. Lots of little perks too, like an unbeatable view of the Hudson and GW bridge. That is where you spend the majority of your med school.

The main hospital (Milstein) is definitely not as pretty on the outside, but the inside is decent. They have been slowly renovating. Our ED is also nearing the end of its complete overhaul since like the 80's. To be honest, real estate in NYC is very expensive and all the infrstructure is very old. It is both expensive and logistically difficult to build new buildings or renovate internally. I cannot think of a single good looking hospital in NYC. Kings County/Downstate, Cornell, NYU, Sinai, Monte/Einstein etc. cannot compare with the looks of Hopkins, Penn, or Dartmouth. I think Boston has a similar issue.
 
This is a post about medical school, right? Well, that is our new med school building. Newest anatomy lab and sim center in the city. Lots of little perks too, like an unbeatable view of the Hudson and GW bridge. That is where you spend the majority of your med school.

The main hospital (Milstein) is definitely not as pretty on the outside, but the inside is decent. They have been slowly renovating. Our ED is also nearing the end of its complete overhaul since like the 80's. To be honest, real estate in NYC is very expensive and all the infrstructure is very old. It is both expensive and logistically difficult to build new buildings or renovate internally. I cannot think of a single good looking hospital in NYC. Kings County/Downstate, Cornell, NYU, Sinai, Monte/Einstein etc. cannot compare with the looks of Hopkins, Penn, or Dartmouth. I think Boston has a similar issue.

I woulda thought you medical school years were spent in hospitals and clinics learning medicine. I see at Columbia, it's really spent in lecture halls learning USMLE step 1...
 
I woulda thought you medical school years were spent in hospitals and clinics learning medicine. I see at Columbia, it's really spent in lecture halls learning USMLE step 1...

You saw that all from that one post? Impressive.

But kidding aside, renovation and shiny additions to infrastructure happen at a snails pace in NYC. Have to be happy with what improvements you get.
 
I woulda thought you medical school years were spent in hospitals and clinics learning medicine. I see at Columbia, it's really spent in lecture halls learning USMLE step 1...

To be fair, how much time do you think a medical student should spend in the hospital first and second year? I'm about as far from Columbia in the US as possible, but we still only do a few clinical activities a week (Standardized patient, preceptorships, SIM lab) interspersed through our curriculum. I thought thats how most US MD schools did it for the PRE-clinical years?
 
To be fair, how much time do you think a medical student should spend in the hospital first and second year? I'm about as far from Columbia in the US as possible, but we still only do a few clinical activities a week (Standardized patient, preceptorships, SIM lab) interspersed through our curriculum. I thought thats how most US MD schools did it for the PRE-clinical years?

If I'm not mistaken it's a 1.5 to 2.5 year split of preclinical to clnical at Columbia; and even if not so, this tends to be the trend in many US medical schools. Not to mention, many schools are now integrating early clinical experiences into the mix -- like so early it's the first week of school. So if we're discussing nice facilities at medical schools, the clinical facilities are absolutely important. Ever been fourth scrub in a OR so small it could be a closet and so old it barely has functioning heating/cooling? You very damn well could -- and it might be that way for 8 hours a day for 8-12 weeks of your life. I'm sure that ritzy lecture hall is gonna really help that.
 
If I'm not mistaken it's a 1.5 to 2.5 year split of preclinical to clnical at Columbia; and even if not so, this tends to be the trend in many US medical schools. Not to mention, many schools are now integrating early clinical experiences into the mix -- like so early it's the first week of school. So if we're discussing nice facilities at medical schools, the clinical facilities are absolutely important. Ever been fourth scrub in a OR so small it could be a closet and so old it barely has functioning heating/cooling? You very damn well could -- and it might be that way for 8 hours a day for 8-12 weeks of your life. I'm sure that ritzy lecture hall is gonna really help that.

I'm with you on that, just when you made the comment about USMLE Step 1 I thought you were only referring to pre-clinical years. Is the quality of the teaching hospital associated with Columbia a problem?
 
I'm with you on that, just when you made the comment about USMLE Step 1 I thought you were only referring to pre-clinical years. Is the quality of the teaching hospital associated with Columbia a problem?

The facilities are just old as crap and so cramped and fugly compared to hospitals else where in the country. It's pretty much that way all across new york. Someone was saying earlier how one of the new york hospital was like a hotel and i just pointed out that someone hasn't seen enough hotels then.
 
Oh my god this **** kills me. And they take forever to merge into the exit lane so they block you while you brake with them. Infuriating. We need to make highway driving, use of blinkers and merging a mandatory part of driving tests because no one seems to have figured it out.

Normally I'd agree, but use of blinkers in NYC/LI area = people speeding up and not letting you change lanes. Gotta be aggressive and go if you wanna get anywhere.

NYC hospitals facilities are just really old. NYP Cornell was doing some renovations when I was volunteering there. It wasn't amazing, but the hospital was clean and decent. The VIP floor on the top was the only exception. That place really looked like a hotel. It was kinda weird because I went to Penn State for an interview with expectations that the hospital would look like crap compared to the great Cornell. Boy was I wrong. Even the rural Penn State Medical Center looked MAGNIFICENT!
 
If I'm not mistaken it's a 1.5 to 2.5 year split of preclinical to clnical at Columbia; and even if not so, this tends to be the trend in many US medical schools. Not to mention, many schools are now integrating early clinical experiences into the mix -- like so early it's the first week of school. So if we're discussing nice facilities at medical schools, the clinical facilities are absolutely important. Ever been fourth scrub in a OR so small it could be a closet and so old it barely has functioning heating/cooling? You very damn well could -- and it might be that way for 8 hours a day for 8-12 weeks of your life. I'm sure that ritzy lecture hall is gonna really help that.

So yeah, it is 1.5 years preclinical. All the lectures/anatomy/sim center stuff happens in that new building, which is nice. Some patients come to visit us, and often we do visit patients in the hospital. You are right, they do provide many clinical experiences throughout these 18 months. Half of them happen off site, at homeless shelters, stand alone clinics, Bronx VA, Harlem Hospital etc. You have no control over that environment. But still, the bulk of the time is spent in an open and modern environment with plenty of natural light during these 18 months. We then spend a year doing rotations at our main teaching hospital, then go back to the library to prep for Step 1. In our 4th year we are required to spend 4 months doing a scholarly project in addition to electives and aways. So if you count the amount of months we spend in lecture, small group, at affiliated sites, scholarly project, step study, rotations etc. I would say that we spend a major chunk of our time in that new building. I am not sure what you are arguing here, but having it is a significant improvement. People don't have to fight for a tiny study space in some corner in some basement anymore.

Regarding our clinical facilities, don't let the exterior facade fool you. Our OR's are not closet sized as your comment may imply. Heating and cooling works fine too. As I said earlier, Milstein Hospital has fairly modern facilities and the hospital as a whole is continuously improving it's infrastructure (ie: our ED). I think most academic NYC hospitals do a decent job modernizing their internal infrastructure. Sure, the exterior is not pretty, but the functionality and an ambience conducive to work is there. I agree that there is not much eye candy but your clinical training won't get hindered by the lack of floor to ceiling glass windows.

I thought you were being a little sarcastic earlier but now I am sensing animosity in your comments toward Columbia. Not sure why. Most NYC hospitals/medical schools are physically outdated. Any revitalized space that can make studying more enjoyable is a welcomed addition. Especially when you spend 22+ months in that new building.

I'm with you on that, just when you made the comment about USMLE Step 1 I thought you were only referring to pre-clinical years. Is the quality of the teaching hospital associated with Columbia a problem?

The Step 1 comment was probably a little tongue-in-cheek since otherwise it would be an inflammatory statement based on zero facts. Unlike most schools, we take our Step 1 after our clinical year (so 2.5 years after starting med school). Most students during their preclinicals are not focused on the Step 1. We are more concerned about our performance on the wards since Step 1 is such a distant test. Going to have to relearn all the Step 1 minutia after clinical year.
 
So yeah, it is 1.5 years preclinical. All the lectures/anatomy/sim center stuff happens in that new building, which is nice. Some patients come to visit us, and often we do visit patients in the hospital. You are right, they do provide many clinical experiences throughout these 18 months. Half of them happen off site, at homeless shelters, stand alone clinics, Bronx VA, Harlem Hospital etc. You have no control over that environment. But still, the bulk of the time is spent in an open and modern environment with plenty of natural light during these 18 months. We then spend a year doing rotations at our main teaching hospital, then go back to the library to prep for Step 1. In our 4th year we are required to spend 4 months doing a scholarly project in addition to electives and aways. So if you count the amount of months we spend in lecture, small group, at affiliated sites, scholarly project, step study, rotations etc. I would say that we spend a major chunk of our time in that new building. I am not sure what you are arguing here, but having it is a significant improvement. People don't have to fight for a tiny study space in some corner in some basement anymore.

Regarding our clinical facilities, don't let the exterior facade fool you. Our OR's are not closet sized as your comment may imply. Heating and cooling works fine too. As I said earlier, Milstein Hospital has fairly modern facilities and the hospital as a whole is continuously improving it's infrastructure (ie: our ED). I think most academic NYC hospitals do a decent job modernizing their internal infrastructure. Sure, the exterior is not pretty, but the functionality and an ambience conducive to work is there. I agree that there is not much eye candy but your clinical training won't get hindered by the lack of floor to ceiling glass windows.

I thought you were being a little sarcastic earlier but now I am sensing animosity in your comments toward Columbia. Not sure why. Most NYC hospitals/medical schools are physically outdated. Any revitalized space that can make studying more enjoyable is a welcomed addition. Especially when you spend 22+ months in that new building.



The Step 1 comment was probably a little tongue-in-cheek since otherwise it would be an inflammatory statement based on zero facts. Unlike most schools, we take our Step 1 after our clinical year (so 2.5 years after starting med school). Most students during their preclinicals are not focused on the Step 1. We are more concerned about our performance on the wards since Step 1 is such a distant test. Going to have to relearn all the Step 1 minutia after clinical year.

No personal relationship or grievance towards P&S. Arguing in general that new york health care facilities are shoddy compared to what's out there in this country, yet somehow new yorkers don't seem to expect better.
 
No personal relationship or grievance towards P&S. Arguing in general that new york health care facilities are shoddy compared to what's out there in this country, yet somehow new yorkers don't seem to expect better.

1000% agree with you.
 
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