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Hopkins vs WashU

CaySau2000

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    Hey guys:

    I'm new to this. I didn't realize this until recently when a friend told me. Very interesting and useful info on here. OK so here is my dilemma: I'm having a difficult time deciding between Hopkins and WashU (St. Louis). I'm interested in academic medicine/research career and hem/onc. Already looking toward fellowship because I think residency is going to be hard anywhere. Any take on where these 2 places stand in the grand scheme of things. Thanks a lot. :confused:
     

    in4mthsMD

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      CaySau2000 said:
      Hey guys:

      I'm new to this. I didn't realize this until recently when a friend told me. Very interesting and useful info on here. OK so here is my dilemma: I'm having a difficult time deciding between Hopkins and WashU (St. Louis). I'm interested in academic medicine/research career and hem/onc. Already looking toward fellowship because I think residency is going to be hard anywhere. Any take on where these 2 places stand in the grand scheme of things. Thanks a lot. :confused:


      I'd suggest that you go back and read previous posts about JH. To answer your question, I think you will best trained at JH. WU is a superb program too and I think other factors need to be factored in such as location, compensation and your feeling of the place during your interview. Both have excellent fellowship placment. I have never been to St. Louis, but I don't think it's better place to live in than Baltimore. Although, it might be much safer, right? Good luck to all of us!!
       

      CaySau2000

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        in4mthsMD said:
        I'd suggest that you go back and read previous posts about JH. To answer your question, I think you will best trained at JH. WU is a superb program too and I think other factors need to be factored in such as location, compensation and your feeling of the place during your interview. Both have excellent fellowship placment. I have never been to St. Louis, but I don't think it's better place to live in than Baltimore. Although, it might be much safer, right? Good luck to all of us!!



        Thanks for your input, in4mthsMD! I have already looked toward fellowship and want to spend a big junk of my time (80-90%) in the future doing research. So I am very curious to hear what people think about these two places in the research and also in clinical. Which has a better reputation? Apparently their med schools are about the same reputation-wise, according to USNews. Any other want to chime in? Also any good idea about Baltimore vs St. Luois?
         
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        Coco_Nut

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          Hello,

          I there are a few points that you should think more on before making your decision. First, I think by now you've noticed that nepotism is the order of the day in terms of where people go for fellowship. Also, you seem pretty set on your path and I imagine you are thinking of short tracking as well - and if you are, it seems a bunch of short trackers stay at their own institution. However, this is by no means the rule for short tracking - I have seen people short track to other institutions as well. But all of this is moot if you have some other place in mind for fellowship. I didnt interview at JHU and do not know their policy about short tracking; but WashU seemed not to mind (and they have a Physician Scientist Track) as well - are you an MDPhD? This always makes it easier as well.

          And your thoughts on the medical school rankings....I really dont believe that you should base where you want to train on USNews rankings.... or Heme onc training. As far as HemeOnc is concerned, from my impression, JHU has a larger national reputation, but also has to compete with the 3-4 programs on the east coast - while WashU has a huge referral base from much of the midwest.

          Hope that helps a little.
           

          golytlely

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            Take the USnews and put it in the trash. It is like deciding how great a book is depending on if Oprah Winfrey likes it or not. JHU has far superior residents, and draws from a much more competitive pool than Wash U. Although Wash U. is a great place, wouldn't put it in the top 15.

            My thoughts
             

            dr-dre

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              golytlely said:
              Take the USnews and put it in the trash. It is like deciding how great a book is depending on if Oprah Winfrey likes it or not. JHU has far superior residents, and draws from a much more competitive pool than Wash U. Although Wash U. is a great place, wouldn't put it in the top 15.

              My thoughts

              As your name would suggest, golytlely (which by the way is actually spelled golytely), you're talking out of your a$$.

              What do you think gets a program into the top 15: Prestige? Fellowship placement? Clinical training? Research opportunities? Patient volume? Affiliation with a strong medical school?

              Looking through some of your previous posts, what YOU really value is location:

              http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2236386#post2236386

              In your own words: "Personally most of us on the west coast, UCSD/HARBOR/UCLA/Stanford/SF all have reasons for coming out here. You couldn't pay any of us enough to live in St. Louis, Durham NC, or Columbus Ohio, so by that criteria, there are residents here at Cedars/Scripps that could have gone to Wash U. or OHSU, Duke, wherever. So the residents are more competitive so thereby your education is better, better conferences, teaching, learning. With very high learning curves for each program. Bottom line is if you arent worried about geography, go to the best program like UTSW or St. Louis"

              http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=1285031#post1285031

              Once again, in your own words, "Was SUPER happy to find out that I matched UCSD my first choice and also my first post on the site, which I have been watching a lot. It was either waxing my surfboard up- or staying in the gloomy midwest."

              Congratulations, beachboy. Many of us choose to go to nationally recognized programs rather than restrict ourselves to sunny places. I shudder to even think what programs you believe make up the top 15.

              http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=2032234#post2032234

              "We love it here, great environment lots of work, but also autonomy, and even better fellowship placement. Most of us chose to be here over high faluting east coast programs."

              Speaking as a student at a Midwestern medical school affiliated with a great hospital, I believe location is not the most important factor in making a top 15 program what it is.

              By the way, UCSD is a good program. I just wouldn't put it in the top 15. :D
               

              CaySau2000

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                golytlely said:
                Take the USnews and put it in the trash. It is like deciding how great a book is depending on if Oprah Winfrey likes it or not. JHU has far superior residents, and draws from a much more competitive pool than Wash U. Although Wash U. is a great place, wouldn't put it in the top 15.

                My thoughts




                Golytley - I would also be interested in knowing why you wouldn't put WashU in top 15. Any other who would have different oppinions? ALso has anyone heard from Hopkins? Based on this site, some have heard from MGH regarding their rankings. I suspect that Hopkins may be meeting now (as most are) and just wonder if they have sent out emails indicating their interests. Thanks.
                 

                Cardsman

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                  Both are excellent programs, but reputation-wise, Hopkins is the clear winner (although I would put Wash U in the top 15). However, Hopkins is pretty malignant, and Wash U is relatively benign, which makes the decision tough.
                   

                  philcolby

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                    When I was interviewing, I had to choose between Hopkins and WashU for my top spots. It was difficult because Hopkins was a great institution with great residents- an excellent program. I however chose WashU for a number of reasons. The malignancy factor of JHU cannot be overstated- as a Boston boy, I am fully aware of the Harvard complex. Hopkins has its own variant of this. One of the reasons I left Boston and came to WashU was the ability to work with world-renowned faculty while maintaining a personal relationship with them. I am on a first-name basis with a number of members of the cardiology department, and they have taken a personal interest in my well-being and education. This was not apparent to me in Boston, and I was worried that I would encounter a similar hierarchical system at JHU as well. I also knew that research was critical to excellent fellowship placement. Both programs will offer excellent future potential. I felt however, given the malignancy of the program (at the time they were still q2 in their units- I'm sure that's changed by now), I wouldn't have time to pursue research early on. WashU encourages mentorship and offers multiple avenues/opportunities for research from the intern year onward. It helps that the program is one of the largest in the country in terms of manpower, which allows for a much more benign (and compliant) work-load. Life beyond residency is critical to your well-being. Even having grown up in Boston/New York, St. Louis is a great town with easy living and a lot of amenities, where your resident salary can take you far. Actually, I preferred it to Baltimore. Good luck- you'll do well with either program IMO. :)
                     

                    CaySau2000

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                      philcolby said:
                      When I was interviewing, I had to choose between Hopkins and WashU for my top spots. It was difficult because Hopkins was a great institution with great residents- an excellent program. I however chose WashU for a number of reasons. The malignancy factor of JHU cannot be overstated- as a Boston boy, I am fully aware of the Harvard complex. Hopkins has its own variant of this. One of the reasons I left Boston and came to WashU was the ability to work with world-renowned faculty while maintaining a personal relationship with them. I am on a first-name basis with a number of members of the cardiology department, and they have taken a personal interest in my well-being and education. This was not apparent to me in Boston, and I was worried that I would encounter a similar hierarchical system at JHU as well. I also knew that research was critical to excellent fellowship placement. Both programs will offer excellent future potential. I felt however, given the malignancy of the program (at the time they were still q2 in their units- I'm sure that's changed by now), I wouldn't have time to pursue research early on. WashU encourages mentorship and offers multiple avenues/opportunities for research from the intern year onward. It helps that the program is one of the largest in the country in terms of manpower, which allows for a much more benign (and compliant) work-load. Life beyond residency is critical to your well-being. Even having grown up in Boston/New York, St. Louis is a great town with easy living and a lot of amenities, where your resident salary can take you far. Actually, I preferred it to Baltimore. Good luck- you'll do well with either program IMO. :)


                      Philcolby - Thanks for the post. It's very helpful. I agree that WashU seems to be quite non-malignant for a reputable institution of its caliber. I also found Hopkins to be a bit less malignant than I was led to believe before the interview. I thought the PD at Hopkins is a straight shooter and it seems he is on a first-name basis with his house staffs, which does speak volume about the environment there. I had to say that I did not get a chance to interact with the PD at WashU so hard to say. That's aside, my question for you and people on this forum is that given 2 candidates equal in all aspects except for one from Hopkins and the other from WashU, who do you think a fellowship director will pick? Second question, which hem/onc fellowship do you think is more prestigious? Thanks.
                       

                      Jamezuva

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                        CaySau2000 said:
                        Philcolby - Thanks for the post. It's very helpful. I agree that WashU seems to be quite non-malignant for a reputable institution of its caliber. I also found Hopkins to be a bit less malignant than I was led to believe before the interview. I thought the PD at Hopkins is a straight shooter and it seems he is on a first-name basis with his house staffs, which does speak volume about the environment there. I had to say that I did not get a chance to interact with the PD at WashU so hard to say. That's aside, my question for you and people on this forum is that given 2 candidates equal in all aspects except for one from Hopkins and the other from WashU, who do you think a fellowship director will pick? Second question, which hem/onc fellowship do you think is more prestigious? Thanks.
                        All other things being equal, the fellowship director will pick the applicant from Hopkins. I'm not sure which heme/onc fellowship is better, however, I'm surprised you wouldn't be going for one of the top programs such as Dana Farber, Sloan-Kettering, or MD Anderson
                         
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