Horrible Harvard

[LizardKing]

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No, this is not a rant about Harvard. I came across an interesting article about the interview process...it provides some good insight about the mood at the school and some good tips about the interview. Enjoy:

<a href="http://www.salon.com/books/it/1999/04/28/interview/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.salon.com/books/it/1999/04/28/interview/index.html</a>

 

[Weeble]

I remember this writer from an article she wrote about older students in Time. I think she's at Stanford now.

 

[Wahoo]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Weeble:
•I remember this writer from an article she wrote about older students in Time. I think she's at Stanford now.•••••That's funny... my Stanford interview went sort of like her Harvard interview did. It's interesting how much an interviewer can flavor your perception of a school.

 

[watto]

She also wrote a book about her struggle with anorexia, which was a great read.

 

[Tobtolip]

Wow, that was a really good article. Its making me think now and reevaluate how important "prestige" really is. I'll tell you one thing, I'll definately be more critical of "top" institutions, instead of going by reputation alone

 

[Scooby Doo]

Haha...that is MY UPitt interview!!!!!

Oh man! Almost word for word that is how I felt!

Makes me glad harvard rejected me 🙂

No need for that "h" on my resume

 

[none]

That was interesting. I'm amazed at how direct the admissions office was about what the interviewer said at the adcom meeting. I know if I was an interviewer I would want my personal statements about an individual to remain confidential.

 

[Jessica]

I think that they left that guy on the admissions committee, b/c I would swear that my faculty interview was with him. I thought about doing an appeal letter etc. but I figured that it would just label me as a troublemaker. No worth it in my opinion... wouldn't get me in anyway so why bother wasting my time and effort. 🙄 Oh well, at least Boston was cool 😀

 

[edmadison]

It does make a difference. The "H" on your resume. People are taken aback when they ask you where you went to school and you say it. It's kind of scary. The sad thing is that its mostly name. If you told a laymen you went to WashU they wouldn't be impressed, but they should.

Weird world we live in.

Ed "H" Madison

 

[Street Philosopher]

Wait a minute, so is she saying she liked Harvard or what? <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

 

[trout]

Ok guys I have to admit I have an entirely different view on this...This article absolutely shocked me...I can't even believe this girl handled herself in this way...no offense but I would never take her
1) she faxes a letter to her "friend" on her behalf trying to work an angle...yeah I am so happy this didn't work, why should she get this rediculous advantage...the other 1000 people that interviewed probably didn't have this "golden connection". It is even unprofessional for her friend to do this in the first place.
2)experience from watching versus doing...yeah I have meet many interviewers that attacked some of my experiences because of shadowing versus actual doing things...a monkey can shadow just put a reward (like medical school)in front of them and they will follow, honestly other experiences would have shown much more initiative...
3)the fact that she even inquired what happened during that meeting...this is arrogant in its own way...I mean who does she think she is
4) Many and I mean many interviewers still do stress interviews, one reason being that you will interact with many people who don't agree with what you are saying, have a different way they like getting information etc. There are two ways to handle this the way she did like a bulldozer...just keep giving information or re-analyzing the the situation (which even she admits wasn't going well) and present the information accordingly...understanding others points of view is such an important facet of being a doctor.
5)suck it up...we all have bad interviews and probably almost all get rejected from at least one place if not more...this lady has issues... I mean two years after the fact she is still whining...move on!!!!

Sorry to rant and rave, but the simple fact that she tried to use a backdoor connection just enraged me :wink: ...yes I am aware far too many people do this <img border="0" alt="[Pity]" title="" src="graemlins/pity.gif" />

 

[Doctora Foxy]

I agree with trout.----I also think she seemed like a bitter Harvard reject who can write well...but then again I sympathize with her because she travelled far and her situation was unfair--and I'm sure she worked hard to get that interview.

But so many people have a bad experience like this--her article didn't seem shocking to me at all.

 

[Trek]

Trout i'm with you 100%. She seems like a whiny b!tch that didn't get what she wanted and now is throwing a fit. I think she went in with the idea of being "The ****" and truly expected to be loved by HMS. Many of us have had MUCH worse interviews and aren't moaning about it- but this girl has to sling it on salon.com? Argh 😡 --Trek

 

[LizardKing]

i agree that in some parts she appears to be whining. However, the one issue she nails correctly on the head is the whole hollywoodization of Harvard. Prestige becomes king, and there is a certain hubris that is unchecked there.

 

[Diogenes]

She's a whiner. No school can accept all of the people that apply, no matter how good. And the fact that she is so arrogant to assume that she deserves to be one of the chosen few really gets under my skin. There are probably hundreds of people better than her that didn't get in either.

 

[Amy B]

I guess I'm missing the "H" on the degree as being important. Am I just a naive patient? I have never looked at my doctor's degree as being a criteria worthy of exploring. 🙄

 

[time quaker]

I bet that in the end she just ended up at a school that is close to that. Who can say that Stanford, Yale, Penn, Columbia, or Hopkins is much different. So she found an "S" for Stanford on her resume instead. Boohoo

 

[futrfysician]

yes but you missed part of her point. People from the entertainment field regularly get that dumb assed smirk about how easy it is in music or the arts. Snide comments about older non-trads not being "born" into a medical career or being to flighty. Can't make up their mind about what they want to be when they grow up.

His comments were typical of what I have come across in some respects from arrogant people of all age groups going into this thing. He blew her off even though she had the resume to get in there. He was a jerk. End story.

 

[Original]

There's 2 sides to it. I didn't like her joke about "o.k and if Harvard doesn't have what we want, should we just leave now?" what's up with that? That was prematurely confrontational and absolutely uncalled-for. She was trying to show off her Hollywood execness; forgetting that she was only a med school applicant like any other in that room.

I think she ended up at Stanford and wrote a similar article roasting her Stanford classmates for being immature and unreceptive to non-traditional students. She has life issues she urgently needs to work out as opposed to getting upset at everyone she comes into contact with.

That said, I still think Harvard has too many arrogant pricks. Their med students are made to sacrifice alot of their happiness and self-respect to be there.

 

[Hopkins2010]

Am I the only person on this forum who turned down a Harvard interview? Surely not.

Speak out and let your voices be heard!

 

[coop]

YEAH BAYLOR!

I'm with ya... i dumped my harvard interview, in fact, after I sent my withdrawal, they sent me another interview and I dumped that too. Plus my girlfriend dumped one, so I'm gonna take credit for dumping 3 harvard interviews 🙂

who will join us?

As a side note, I can't understand why people are attracted to the idea that people will have more respect for them as a doctor because of Harvard on the diploma. Or that they could be introduced as "Harvard educated". The idea of that false admiration is completely revolting to me. I think it alone is enough reason to turn down a school. Am I alone here, baylor, are you with me? Does everyone else out there really like these things?

 

[HairlessHeart]

Although she was a bit whiny at times and seemed to stylize her story with some exaggerations, she did manage to illuminate several good points about Harvard and prestige in general.

Most importantly, the admissions commitee had to have known this particular interviewer was an annoying little pimple who could unfortunately never be popped... because he did have some status or power. Given his rep, I would think they would rarely give any significant weight to his opinions.

To simply state it: I think she was rejected for reasons wholly other than her interview.

 

[groundhog]

Oh yeah. I remember the PBS TV program (shown last year I think) that followed the routines of some Harvard interns. They might very well make decent internists, but I would not want any them to touch me with a tweezer let alone scalpel. Gosh what clutzes.

 

[amp]

really, who hasn't had an interview like this after the fifth or sixth one? You're bound to bump into the committee prick who's been interviewing hapless pre-meds for 25 years and is beyond the point of caring about how amazing you think it would be to be a doctor. had one last week, now that I think about it. But I liked her article nonetheless, although I didn't find her situation too shocking. This whole process is pretty unfair and I think we all know it. It seems to me like she was just new to it and shocked by how serious it can get. I'm glad she tried to break the ice by joking at the interview, it looks like she doesn't take herself too seriously, unlike the majority of the applicants there (praying at the table?). The only question is, why did she think Harvard would be a good match for her?

 

[Incendiary]

Does anyone have a link to her article on Stanford, bashing the students there? I'm quite curious to see what she says... 🙄

 

[The Fly]

I tell you what. . .

I would have never gone back for a second interview...how could you possibly think that this would somehow reverse your status enough that you'd be accepted--or even waitlisted.

If you had a decent interview and were canned on sort of unfounded grounds (i.e. an interviewer did not hate you), then maybe I could see travelling for a second interview. But, man, it shows a definite need for some acceptance/redemption if you're willing to shell out hundreds of $$ to fly across the country to try to make them like you better...

 

[AJM]

Lori Gottlieb (the author of the article) was a first-year medical student at Stanford for most or all of the year about three years ago, and she has never been back since. Most Stanford students don't even consider her to be a Stanford med student because she was only around for about 2 quarters before disappearing. (note: her first year was the year she got all her recognition for her book on anorexia). In her recent articles she actually does claim to be a Stanford med student, and to be an "expert" on what it's like to go through med school, because she's done it herself. 🙄

Lori did write a piece in Time magazine that flamed Stanford med students, and it caused quite an uproar over here. She claims that it was "tongue-in-cheek", but the piece makes it look like it's a 'real' news story. There was a lot of stuff mentioned in her article that never actually happened, or that were blown way out of proportion, so I would take the article she wrote about Harvard with a huge grain of salt.

Some med students here actually suspect that Lori only went to med school in order to get juicy material for future books, but I don't subscribe to that theory. I do agree with Original that Lori has major interpersonal issues that she needs to deal with.

 

[Incendiary]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by AJM:
•Lori did write a piece in Time magazine that flamed Stanford med students, and it caused quite an uproar over here. She claims that it was "tongue-in-cheek", but the piece makes it look like it's a 'real' news story. There was a lot of stuff mentioned in her article that never actually happened, or that were blown way out of proportion, so I would take the article she wrote about Harvard with a huge grain of salt.
•••••Is this the article you mean?
<a href="http://www.time.com/time/education/article/0,8599,104587,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.time.com/time/education/article/0,8599,104587,00.html</a>

If so, it doesn't seem that bad...

 

[lilycat]

AJM -- thank you!!!

I can't stand Lori Gottlieb -- I'm definitely in the camp of people who think she might have done the med school thing for material -- although why someone would go to all that trouble... Anyways, I remember a couple of friends and I were outraged last year by the Time article, especially when she wasn't even at Stanford 😡 By the way, you would be entertained to know that she was a contributor to this book that came out last year about women in medicine -- I think it was called "The other side of medicine," or something. 🙄

 

[USeF]

•••quote:•••Originally posted by Incendiary:
•Is this the article you mean?
<a href="http://www.time.com/time/education/article/0,8599,104587,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.time.com/time/education/article/0,8599,104587,00.html</a>
If so, it doesn't seem that bad...•••••i agree with my boy, *diary here that there seems to be a lot of animosity for little reason. Enjoy life, and take such criticism to our future field in stride with all the glowing articles about Doctors w/o Borders and the growing number of primary care physicians.

As for my poorly created subjective view of Harvard, it was impressive, but not for me. I visited my cousin in Quincy- just outside of Boston- for a week after my freshman year to see the city and go to a Red Sox game [never made it]. I walked into the tall supreme-court looking building and was greeted with 18C architecture and dark hallways. Like a musuem, it was nice to visit, but wasn't so sure about living there. Would've liked the opportunity to see for myself on an interview, but never given the opportunity. Maybe I'll learn more about 'H' from my classmates next year that turned Harvard down :wink: