Housing

[finalpsychyear]

If I'm working more than 0 hours/week at age 70 60 on anything except my hobbies, I will consider myself a failure of an anesthesiologist.

Unless you consdier anesthesia a hobby/identity as old skool gen work till they drop... should at least aim for an early exit then later bc frankly we all overestimate what we will be capable of as we get older.

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[pgg]

Unless you consdier anesthesia a hobby/identity as old skool gen work till they drop... should at least aim for an early exit then later bc frankly we all overestimate what we will be capable of as we get older.

I will certainly stop taking call and go part time well before age 60.

 

[<(^_^)>]

Even my 85 yo mom spends more than 70k a year post tax traveling. And my dad been dead for 20 years.

Can’t imagine anyone who is 45-50 yo who feels like they financially independent who used to making 400-700k a year can go down to 70k a year like that.

Check out the physicians dad forums where the docs complain their wives spend 4-5k on meaningless stuff EACH month alone.

Heck on of the docs I know his wife wants 200k on renovations on their 3rd home.

He literally has to make 800k and do shady 1099 tax write offs just to survive. And he’s got 5 kids

Well, a few things. I never said “2M ought to be enough for anyone” I said “2M can be enough for people, since some people prioritize having disposable time a lot more than disposable money”.

Remember people “making” 400-700k a year don’t spend close to that.

As an ex. someone makes 550k in Sacramento CA, 50k 401k, 330k after tax, 120k toward a nice house (15y mortgage) and 50k toward more retirement savings. 10k per kid per year for college fund. 15 years in they own their house, and no longer need to save. So their prior lifestyle was 140k a year spend now down to 70k. Huge reduction, but 50%. Not 90%.

That’s why people say be careful of lifestyle creep. If you spend 90% of what you take home you’ll get used to a lifestyle you cannot afford. You don’t want to be the old dude still taking call because you feel you have to fly first class everywhere.

My perspective is since virtually everyone gets used to whatever lifestyle they have, you’re better off progressively increasing lifestyle after starting from middle class. Jumping immediately to the end game and having to dial back lifestyle or work yourself to the bone just to tread water financially sounds like a horrible to me but everyone has different approaches to life.

 

[<(^_^)>]

On a serious note regarding housing. 100% Bonus depreciation is set to make a come back which I think may mean you can buy an Airbnb for a few years and then move in after deducting loads off your taxes. No limit to interest deduction on Airbnb either as I understand it. Has anyone done this/considered doing this?

 

[kidthor]

You don’t want to be the old dude still taking call because you feel you have to fly first class everywhere.

Also you don’t want to be the old dude taking call to pay for his ex wives to fly first class.

 

[mmag]

It's only a problem if you feel like you have to keep working when you don't want to just to keep up with your spending.

 

[aneftp]

It's only a problem if you feel like you have to keep working when you don't want to just to keep up with your spending.
View attachment 403933

The issue is the person who making the white coat investor post , they need to disclose what they make and how much they spend

It’s very hypocritical to make a post like the about 200k and not disclose how much they make and spend annually.

200k after taxes (fica is 11k plus Medicare taxes) plus say effective tax rate 25%. You are literally down to 140k. Before state income taxes

So it’s fine to say live off 10-11k post tax a month

House payments 4k , student loans 1-2k, normal household spending Food, electricity, water 3k, car payments?, insurance?

 

[Maverikk]

It’s called a budget. My parents worked their way up on a teacher’s and plumber’s salary. I appreciate it now a lot more as an adult. We lived in some poor areas but my parents worked hard. We never went to Disney or Europe, but kids can have as much fun swimming in a lake and canoeing as a 5-10k European vacation they probably won’t appreciate. When I went to France with my brother, his kids and my parents and did all the touristy things my nieces said their favorite part was the hotel pool! I would agree people should get a 10-30yr financial plan, my previous group had it as a free service with our retirement people and it’s rather eye opening, they told me I was one of the most financially conservative people they worked with which I took as a compliment but I think they meant I should put more into moderate risk investments, which I don’t do. There are a lot of ways to enjoy life and only a few require more money.

 

[abolt18]

The issue is the person who making the white coat investor post , they need to disclose what they make and how much they spend

It’s very hypocritical to make a post like the about 200k and not disclose how much they make and spend annually.

200k after taxes (fica is 11k plus Medicare taxes) plus say effective tax rate 25%. You are literally down to 140k. Before state income taxes

So it’s fine to say live off 10-11k post tax a month

House payments 4k , student loans 1-2k, normal household spending Food, electricity, water 3k, car payments?, insurance?

First, I think he's saying SPENDING $200K, not 200K less taxes.

Also, Jim Dahle has been unbelievably forthcoming over the years about his income until he started making a LOT of money from his business and wanted to avoid putting a big $$$ shaped target on his family's back. He still talks about his yearly spending and historically was spending well under $200K/yr despite earning >$1M/yr.

I read his blog religiously from 2013 to 2022ish. Likely didn't miss a post in that time. I have listened to every podcast episode. I can tell you that I detected no hypocrisy. The man talks the talk and walks the walk.

 

[pgg]

The issue is the person who making the white coat investor post , they need to disclose what they make and how much they spend

It’s very hypocritical to make a post like the about 200k and not disclose how much they make and spend annually.

200k after taxes (fica is 11k plus Medicare taxes) plus say effective tax rate 25%. You are literally down to 140k. Before state income taxes

So it’s fine to say live off 10-11k post tax a month

House payments 4k , student loans 1-2k, normal household spending Food, electricity, water 3k, car payments?, insurance?

I think that $200K figure was after-tax money available to spend.

One very real issue (and pertinent to this thread) is that some VHCOL areas put monthly mortgage payments close to (or even exceeding) 5 figures. When you've gotta live 5 blocks from Apple headquarters for some reason and you've narrowed your housing options down to a $2M 1500 sq ft home built in 1970 ....

Anyway. It's the discretionary spending that sinks doctors. Travel. Cars. Second homes. Private schools for the kids. Watches and purses. A $7000 sofa for that $2M bungalow that needs its 1970s orange shag carpet replaced. Divorce. Keeping up with the tech bro down the street. Spending.

 

[pgg]

What phase of life is he talking about. I would argue with kids and maybe a full or part time nanny and for people buying a home now with high interest rates you will be there in that range and also again when/if you pay for their colleges.

Good questions

Although if we're talking about full or part time nannies, then the spouse must be working too, so there's a second (and probably substantial) income to take into account.

 

[mmag]

Good questions

Although if we're talking about full or part time nannies, then the spouse must be working too, so there's a second (and probably substantial) income to take into account.

Though some folks have non working spouses and nanny/daycare for the kids.

 

[pgg]

Though some folks have non working spouses and nanny/daycare for the kids.

Like I said, discretionary (unnecessary) spending. Hiring a nanny when there's a stay-at-home parent around all the time is a luxury. And a weird one at that - paying someone to raise your kids when you're right there is bizarre.

 

[Radar26]

Like I said, discretionary (unnecessary) spending. Hiring a nanny when there's a stay-at-home parent around all the time is a luxury. And a weird one at that - paying someone to raise your kids when you're right there is bizarre.

you might need to try watching 2 or more children under 5 for a few (24 hr) days in a row, then your opinion on part time nanny’s will soften for the non “working” spouses

 

[pgg]

you might need to try watching 2 or more children under 5 for a few (24 hr) days in a row, then your opinion on part time nanny’s will soften for the non “working” spouses

Oh give me a break

Somehow, the 99.27% of families that can't afford a nanny get by without one, even the ones that have two working parents and rely on paid daycare.

My wife was a stay-at-home mom for our three kids, the first born my first semester of medical school. Sometimes I was away for months at a time for clerkships at distant hospitals. And then I was an intern. And then I was a Navy GMO who deployed for 7 months to Afghanistan, and then again for another 7 to Iraq. And then I was a resident. My kids were 8, 10, 12 when I finished training.

I have exactly zero illusions about how hard she worked as the stay-at-home parent. One set of grandparents lived 3000 miles away. The other set lived 6000 miles away. They visited fairly often and helped out. We made use of neighbors and babysitters. The concept of hiring a nanny? Guess what, my wife was tired. Guess what, so was I.


This forum is, very often, a swirling vortex of financial reality distortion. I don't know where to rank the "necessity" of 8-figure retirement accounts, vs the "necessity" of home ownership in Silicon Valley, vs the "necessity" of hiring a nanny to ease the load of a stay-at-home parent.

Obviously stay-at-home parents work hard. It should be equally obvious that having a paid nanny is a luxury very few people can afford, and one that few people who CAN afford it actually indulge in.

Every one of these threads makes it more obvious to me why doctors grossing the better part of a $million per year are somehow, somehow feeling a pinch.

 

[abolt18]

Oh give me a break

Somehow, the 99.27% of families that can't afford a nanny get by without one, even the ones that have two working parents and rely on paid daycare.

My wife was a stay-at-home mom for our three kids, the first born my first semester of medical school. Sometimes I was away for months at a time for clerkships at distant hospitals. And then I was an intern. And then I was a Navy GMO who deployed for 7 months to Afghanistan, and then again for another 7 to Iraq. And then I was a resident. My kids were 8, 10, 12 when I finished training.

I have exactly zero illusions about how hard she worked as the stay-at-home parent. One set of grandparents lived 3000 miles away. The other set lived 6000 miles away. They visited fairly often and helped out. We made use of neighbors and babysitters. The concept of hiring a nanny? Guess what, my wife was tired. Guess what, so was I.


This forum is, very often, a swirling vortex of financial reality distortion. I don't know where to rank the "necessity" of 8-figure retirement accounts, vs the "necessity" of home ownership in Silicon Valley, vs the "necessity" of hiring a nanny to ease the load of a stay-at-home parent.

Obviously stay-at-home parents work hard. It should be equally obvious that having a paid nanny is a luxury very few people can afford, and one that few people who CAN afford it actually indulge in.

Every one of these threads makes it more obvious to me why doctors grossing the better part of a $million per year are somehow, somehow feeling a pinch.

Amen.

 

[anonperson]

you might need to try watching 2 or more children under 5 for a few (24 hr) days in a row, then your opinion on part time nanny’s will soften for the non “working” spouses

Lol . What's the point of a spouse staying at home if they still need a nanny.

Waste of money.

Might as well get them to work.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

Oh give me a break

Somehow, the 99.27% of families that can't afford a nanny get by without one, even the ones that have two working parents and rely on paid daycare.

My wife was a stay-at-home mom for our three kids, the first born my first semester of medical school. Sometimes I was away for months at a time for clerkships at distant hospitals. And then I was an intern. And then I was a Navy GMO who deployed for 7 months to Afghanistan, and then again for another 7 to Iraq. And then I was a resident. My kids were 8, 10, 12 when I finished training.

I have exactly zero illusions about how hard she worked as the stay-at-home parent. One set of grandparents lived 3000 miles away. The other set lived 6000 miles away. They visited fairly often and helped out. We made use of neighbors and babysitters. The concept of hiring a nanny? Guess what, my wife was tired. Guess what, so was I.


This forum is, very often, a swirling vortex of financial reality distortion. I don't know where to rank the "necessity" of 8-figure retirement accounts, vs the "necessity" of home ownership in Silicon Valley, vs the "necessity" of hiring a nanny to ease the load of a stay-at-home parent.

Obviously stay-at-home parents work hard. It should be equally obvious that having a paid nanny is a luxury very few people can afford, and one that few people who CAN afford it actually indulge in.

Every one of these threads makes it more obvious to me why doctors grossing the better part of a $million per year are somehow, somehow feeling a pinch.

Yeah I don't understand where it all goes for some of these folks. Let's say after taxes and retirement savings you've got 500k left in these big earning households.

500/12 = 41.6k

Say mortgage astronomically high at 15k = 26.6k for expenses.

Like really, who is spending that much monthly, even with kids? Literally 1 month pays for all food and utilities.

 

[aneftp]

Like I said, discretionary (unnecessary) spending. Hiring a nanny when there's a stay-at-home parent around all the time is a luxury. And a weird one at that - paying someone to raise your kids when you're right there is bizarre.

Happens 1/5 of the housewives in my neighborhood

One kid. One nanny. So the mom can rest.

A few have two Nannies for one kid. I kid u not.

Yeah I don't understand where it all goes for some of these folks. Let's say after taxes and retirement savings you've got 500k left in these big earning households.

500/12 = 41.6k

Say mortgage astronomically high at 15k = 26.6k for expenses.

Like really, who is spending that much monthly, even with kids? Literally 1 month pays for all food and utilities.

500k after taxes for average doc is approximately 23-25k month post tax (assuming maxing out on retirement )

Mortgage 4-6k on average
Student loans 1-3k a month
Car payments 1k a month
Food for family is $50/day on low end ($1500 assuming not eating out or $2500 with eating out)
Cheer music travel baseball etc $1000/month plus travel
529 both kids $2000 a month post tax
Electric (in Florida is $500-1000/month)
Misc entertainment travel vacation (25k a year ) I spend $50k a year. So let’s say $2k a month
Car insurance life insurance disability is $3000/month

You are easily at 20-23k a month already. That where the money goes.

And I don’t consider these outrageous spending for the common anesthesiologist either.

 

[ucladoc2b]

Car insurance life insurance disability is $3000/month

You are easily at 20-23k a month already. That where the money goes.

Happens 1/5 of the housewives in my neighborhood

One kid. One nanny. So the mom can rest.

A few have two Nannies for one kid. I kid u not.

500k after taxes for average doc is approximately 23-25k month post tax (assuming maxing out on retirement )

Mortgage 4-6k on average
Student loans 1-3k a month
Car payments 1k a month
Food for family is $50/day on low end ($1500 assuming not eating out or $2500 with eating out)
Cheer music travel baseball etc $1000/month plus travel
529 both kids $2000 a month post tax
Electric (in Florida is $500-1000/month)
Misc entertainment travel vacation (25k a year ) I spend $50k a year. So let’s say $2k a month

And I don’t consider these outrageous spending for the common anesthesiologist either.

That’s a lot for insurance

 

[RedandBlack7]

Happens 1/5 of the housewives in my neighborhood

One kid. One nanny. So the mom can rest.

A few have two Nannies for one kid. I kid u not.

500k after taxes for average doc is approximately 23-25k month post tax (assuming maxing out on retirement )

Mortgage 4-6k on average
Student loans 1-3k a month
Car payments 1k a month
Food for family is $50/day on low end ($1500 assuming not eating out or $2500 with eating out)
Cheer music travel baseball etc $1000/month plus travel
529 both kids $2000 a month post tax
Electric (in Florida is $500-1000/month)
Misc entertainment travel vacation (25k a year ) I spend $50k a year. So let’s say $2k a month
Car insurance life insurance disability is $3000/month

You are easily at 20-23k a month already. That where the money goes.

And I don’t consider these outrageous spending for the common anesthesiologist either.

Student loans can be much more than that if both spouses have loans.

If kids are in daycare/preK that is also easily 1000 a month per kid if not more

4-6k mortgage these days is unattainable at 7% unless you are putting a ton down. Also don’t forget property tax and homeowner insurance

 

[PainInTheAnes]

Happens 1/5 of the housewives in my neighborhood

One kid. One nanny. So the mom can rest.

A few have two Nannies for one kid. I kid u not.

500k after taxes for average doc is approximately 23-25k month post tax (assuming maxing out on retirement )

Mortgage 4-6k on average
Student loans 1-3k a month
Car payments 1k a month
Food for family is $50/day on low end ($1500 assuming not eating out or $2500 with eating out)
Cheer music travel baseball etc $1000/month plus travel
529 both kids $2000 a month post tax
Electric (in Florida is $500-1000/month)
Misc entertainment travel vacation (25k a year ) I spend $50k a year. So let’s say $2k a month
Car insurance life insurance disability is $3000/month

You are easily at 20-23k a month already. That where the money goes.

And I don’t consider these outrageous spending for the common anesthesiologist either.

Car life and disability is nowhere close to 3000 a month. Try 1000 for all three of those with 2 car household.

Cars should be bought in cash at doctor level, period end of story. Never need a car payment unless you’re truly degenerate.

If a parent isn’t working then a nanny is only needed 2-3 hours per day. Anything more than that for a non working mom or dad is just laziness and shirking adult responsibility imo.

Maybe its just my values but I just shaved 36k off that yearly budget easily.

And anesthesiologists should be making more than 500 pretax if they’re a sole breadwinner imo. 450 is the minimum for most academic jobs now with below normal call schedule.

Maybe doctors are just that dumb financially. I know people trying to keep high end appliance updated every 2 years throughout their house with insane hobbies.

 

[pgg]

Happens 1/5 of the housewives in my neighborhood

One kid. One nanny. So the mom can rest.

A few have two Nannies for one kid. I kid u not.

I believe you.

I'm just saying they're dumb.


Also, quibbling at your budget -

• someone earning $25K/month post tax shouldn't be borrowing money to buy a car
• that's really a lot of insurance
• $1000/month electric? what kind of eco-terrorist, AC-on-with-the-doors-open, electric-pool-heated, 17000 sqft McMansion shenanigans is that?
• $2500/month for food, eating out all the time? with one parent staying at home? what, that person can't be bothered to cook, either? WTF is that person doing?
• maybe travel less if you're living paycheck to paycheck?
• I'll grant you kids' activities can be expensive ... my daughter did gymnastics for 13 years and the travel/fees associated with that were ridiculous. They had a meet in the Bahamas one year for **** sake. But again: this is the epitome of luxury discretionary spending.
• That 529 saving is pretty aggressive, but I can't criticize it too much, because it's obviously saving and not spending.

Again I believe there are people who live like this. They're dumb.

 

[RedandBlack7]

Just to play devils advocate, why not enjoy your life after all the hard work and training and spend a little more even if it means having to work a little longer or part time a few more years. working 2-3 days a week at an easy job is not really that terrible. It is much more enjoyable to travel in your 30/40s than your 70-80s. You also don’t know what can happen and may not make it that long.

I am not saying to not save or to finance a Lamborghini but I don’t understand the crazy retirement goals. What do you need 10-20M for when you are 70? Especially at the cost of living like a resident

 

[cchoukal]

I'm gonna go with ANEFTP on many of these numbers...

Insurance, car, disability, life, homeowners, is 3K for us. Maybe I could have less life insurance for the Mrs? Throw in health/vision/dental, and it's 3500 (I AM lucky my health insurance is very heavily subsidized).

Our energy costs are also high. Not $1000, but in the winter, we've been around $800/mo for sure. This is for a 2700 sq place with new windows and a fully insulated roof.

After mortgage and insurance, food is our biggest line item. We cook and I bet we're still close to 2500, granted, we tend to buy organic food from farms with names, but still. We recently joined a farm share that gives a sick amount of produce, eggs, beef, and lamb, so this might come down a LITTLE.

There's probably a lot of variability in food and energy costs from east to west, urban to rural; probably insurance, too. But I'm seeing numbers pretty close to ANEFTP's where I am. He's not crazy (about this).

EDIT: Just ran the report on my budget software. For food, we're averaging $1900/mo across all categories (e.g., groceries and meals out). This included several trips to the mountains for skiing, so there was a higher-than-typical amount of meals out those weeks.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Happens 1/5 of the housewives in my neighborhood

One kid. One nanny. So the mom can rest.

A few have two Nannies for one kid. I kid u not.

500k after taxes for average doc is approximately 23-25k month post tax (assuming maxing out on retirement )

Mortgage 4-6k on average
Student loans 1-3k a month
Car payments 1k a month
Food for family is $50/day on low end ($1500 assuming not eating out or $2500 with eating out)
Cheer music travel baseball etc $1000/month plus travel
529 both kids $2000 a month post tax
Electric (in Florida is $500-1000/month)
Misc entertainment travel vacation (25k a year ) I spend $50k a year. So let’s say $2k a month
Car insurance life insurance disability is $3000/month

You are easily at 20-23k a month already. That where the money goes.

And I don’t consider these outrageous spending for the common anesthesiologist either.

So your saying 250k is easily reached in expenses with 2 kids and this is without a nanny and 25k in travel. This could easily be 300k/yr with a nanny or some additional travel. So your advice is plan on considering the expnesive phase of life with 2 kids to be in the 250-300k just in expenses ??


Edit: I do know i have talked to 2 people with 3 kids and the youngest is a HS senior. He said he is spending 240k per year not counting the tuition for the other two. They have a mortagage.

The other guy is spending 180k per year with 2 high school kids and 1 lives at home commuter for college but has a paid off home.

 

[DesiredMemberName?]

I believe you.

I'm just saying they're dumb.


Also, quibbling at your budget -

• someone earning $25K/month post tax shouldn't be borrowing money to buy a car
• that's really a lot of insurance
• $1000/month electric? what kind of eco-terrorist, AC-on-with-the-doors-open, electric-pool-heated, 17000 sqft McMansion shenanigans is that?
• $2500/month for food, eating out all the time? with one parent staying at home? what, that person can't be bothered to cook, either? WTF is that person doing?
• maybe travel less if you're living paycheck to paycheck?
• I'll grant you kids' activities can be expensive ... my daughter did gymnastics for 13 years and the travel/fees associated with that were ridiculous. They had a meet in the Bahamas one year for **** sake. But again: this is the epitome of luxury discretionary spending.
• That 529 saving is pretty aggressive, but I can't criticize it too much, because it's obviously saving and not spending.

Again I believe there are people who live like this. They're dumb.

Why wouldn't you finance a vehicle if 0% financing is available? Take the money you would've spent on the car and invest it. Assuming you don't buy more car than you otherwise would and that you actually invest the money, you'll most likely come out ahead.

I agree it doesn't make sense to pay significant interest on a car loan, but if you can get money at 0%, why not?

Do you also aggressively pay off your 2% home mortgage with money markets paying >4%?

 

[aneftp]

Why wouldn't you finance a vehicle if 0% financing is available? Take the money you would've spent on the car and invest it. Assuming you don't buy more car than you otherwise would and that you actually invest the money, you'll most likely come out ahead.

I agree it doesn't make sense to pay significant interest on a car loan, but if you can get money at 0%, why not?

Do you also aggressively pay off your 2% home mortgage with money markets paying >4%?

depends how much money you have sitting around

I paid off my student loans many years ago even with 3.5% interest. Back in 2007? High yield online savings accounts paying around 5.5%? back than. So even accounting for taxes I’d wouldn’t be losing money putting the funds in a savings account.

Sometimes I hate debt sitting around. It’s always a gamble. Just paid it off in a lump sum in mid 2007.

Well I guess I could have invested in stocks in mid 2007 as well with that spare money. All 110k I paid off the loans. Peak all time high in mid 2007. And we all know what happened in 2008 with the stock market

 

[pgg]

Why wouldn't you finance a vehicle if 0% financing is available?

1) How long has it been since auto loan rates were 0%? I don't think I've seen that advertised for at least a decade.

2) Dealership finance "deals" usually carry baggage of higher sale prices. They make their money on financing and upsells, not the cars. 0% financing on a vehicle has rarely been the best deal you can get.

But sure, if someone loans you money at 0%, it's a good deal.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Why wouldn't you finance a vehicle if 0% financing is available? Take the money you would've spent on the car and invest it. Assuming you don't buy more car than you otherwise would and that you actually invest the money, you'll most likely come out ahead.

I agree it doesn't make sense to pay significant interest on a car loan, but if you can get money at 0%, why not?

Do you also aggressively pay off your 2% home mortgage with money markets paying >4%?

I got one of my cars at 1.5% and the money i could use to pay it off is getting 4.5-5% in the bank.

The business car is on a 5% loan but im almost getting that in interest from the bank. Plus i get to write off the interest as a deduction every year plus used section 179 to deduct a large part of the car by taking out a loan. Ive seen credit cards give you 0% interest for 12-24 months for 30-50k credit lines and for someone who would be responsible that would be another way to play the game.

There are scenerios where it makes sense to take out a loan another being the 2-3% mortgage situations. Of course the business car doenst apply for w2 workers.

 

[AppTrail]

1) How long has it been since auto loan rates were 0%? I don't think I've seen that advertised for at least a decade.

2) Dealership finance "deals" usually carry baggage of higher sale prices. They make their money on financing and upsells, not the cars. 0% financing on a vehicle has rarely been the best deal you can get.

But sure, if someone loans you money at 0%, it's a good deal.

Precovid/beginning of COVID there were abundant 0% car loans with nothing down. Price was the same whether we paid in full or nothing down. I guess interest could be baked into the OTD price but we did shop around

 

[pgg]

If we're talking about nannies for stay-at-home moms, I just figured we were talking about financing a new Mercedes SUV every other year for them to drive to the nail salon.

Financing or even leasing work vehicles might make some sense, in some circumstances.

 

[GravelRider]

I guess I should consider myself lucky here. I offered to buy my wife a new car since her Honda has hit 175k miles and she said “why, it still runs fine.”

If you are paying for a nanny, you are better off paying for daycare instead. There are a lot of socialization benefits to daycare. Kids playing and interacting with other kids is important for their development, in my opinion. Even if my spouse didn’t work, I would probably have still put my kids in some daycare. Is that a luxury? I don’t know. It shouldn’t be. There should be more resources that offset the cost of childcare for working families.

 

[cchoukal]

We had a nanny for awhile with twins, even though my wife wasn't working. Twins are another thing, altogether, and she'd been with them since they were born. We probably could've gone without sooner than we did (we stopped having her when they were about 4.5). She taught them Spanish and did some light housework and cooking, so there were some other benefits. We opted to keep her instead of preschool for a host of reasons, and figured the girls were each other's socialization. Probably had a lot fewer colds this way!

EDIT: Oh, and our cars are 10 years and 17 years old...

 

[sloh]

Wife going part-time to keep her foot in the career arena and giving her a life outside of taking care of kids while paying for a nanny is also a nice setup. My wife is an anesthesiologist and we are planning on having kids these next 1-2 years. She doesn’t want to continue working full-time but also doesn’t want to step away from her career completely.

 

[AppTrail]

I guess I should consider myself lucky here. I offered to buy my wife a new car since her Honda has hit 175k miles and she said “why, it still runs fine.”

If you are paying for a nanny, you are better off paying for daycare instead. There are a lot of socialization benefits to daycare. Kids playing and interacting with other kids is important for their development, in my opinion. Even if my spouse didn’t work, I would probably have still put my kids in some daycare. Is that a luxury? I don’t know. It shouldn’t be. There should be more resources that offset the cost of childcare for working families.

My kids aren’t in daycare but feel like friends who do are always complaining how kids keep getting sick at daycare or daycare calls them/wont let them bring kids if any sign or symptom of a URI. At least w nanny this isn’t as big an issue in theory

 

[cchoukal]

Wife going part-time to keep her foot in the career arena and giving her a life outside of taking care of kids while paying for a nanny is also a nice setup. My wife is an anesthesiologist and we are planning on having kids these next 1-2 years. She doesn’t want to continue working full-time but also doesn’t want to step away from her career completely.

to me, that's the best of both worlds. You have some help when you need it, and a ready-made babysitter for nights out (important with young kids), and your wife still gets some breaks and earns some $$.

 

[sloh]

to me, that's the best of both worlds. You have some help when you need it, and a ready-made babysitter for nights out (important with young kids), and your wife still gets some breaks and earns some $$.

Yeah, and we’ve also had frank discussions about what would happen if our marriage didn’t work out in the future. It would be easy for her to get right back into working full time if that’s what she wanted/needed.

 

[nimbus]

I guess I should consider myself lucky here. I offered to buy my wife a new car since her Honda has hit 175k miles and she said “why, it still runs fine.”

If you are paying for a nanny, you are better off paying for daycare instead. There are a lot of socialization benefits to daycare. Kids playing and interacting with other kids is important for their development, in my opinion. Even if my spouse didn’t work, I would probably have still put my kids in some daycare. Is that a luxury? I don’t know. It shouldn’t be. There should be more resources that offset the cost of childcare for working families.

What about the perpetual daycare snot?

 

[GravelRider]

My kids aren’t in daycare but feel like friends who do are always complaining how kids keep getting sick at daycare or daycare calls them/wont let them bring kids if any sign or symptom of a URI. At least w nanny this isn’t as big an issue in theory

Meh…my kids had perpetual booger noses the first year or so in daycare. We had a few bouts with coxsackie virus too. Our daycare had rules about fevers, vomiting, diarrhea, and contagious rashes (coxsackie). Now they almost never get sick. If they do get sick, their symptoms will often last less than 24 hours. In retrospect, the minor inconveniences related to the daycare sicknesses seem to be far outweighed by the benefits. It eased the transition to school and helped them to learn how to socialize with peers. There may even have been some immunological benefits from all those booger noses early on. I’m a big proponent of daycare. Even if my spouse was stay-at-home online shopping all day, I would probably still enroll my kids in daycare.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

Meh…my kids had perpetual booger noses the first year or so in daycare. We had a few bouts with coxsackie virus too. Our daycare had rules about fevers, vomiting, diarrhea, and contagious rashes (coxsackie). Now they almost never get sick. If they do get sick, their symptoms will often last less than 24 hours. In retrospect, the minor inconveniences related to the daycare sicknesses seem to be far outweighed by the benefits. It eased the transition to school and helped them to learn how to socialize with peers. There may even have been some immunological benefits from all those booger noses early on. I’m a big proponent of daycare. Even if my spouse was stay-at-home online shopping all day, I would probably still enroll my kids in daycare.

Same things I’ve heard from my siblings and peers with kids. Daycare rules if it’s open and available. They don’t often cancel daycare, Nannie’s cancel all the time

 

[cchoukal]

Same things I’ve heard from my siblings and peers with kids. Daycare rules if it’s open and available. They don’t often cancel daycare, Nannie’s cancel all the time

oh funny, our experience was just the opposite, although this was early COVID times. daycares were closed all the time, but our nanny showed up every day! Probably an unusual circumstance, given the times, tho.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

oh funny, our experience was just the opposite, although this was early COVID times. daycares were closed all the time, but our nanny showed up every day! Probably an unusual circumstance, given the times, tho.

Definitely unusual, my friends nannies cancel constantly but daycare soldiers on unless your kid is sick

 

[USCTrojan11]

If you're solidly going to stay some place for 5+ years it's usually a better idea to buy, if you're uncertain rent. Trying to game it based on interest rates isn't worth it when it comes to real estate. And also depends on your initiative to do home improvements vs you don't want to be bothered

Khan Academy

en.khanacademy.org

This is terrible general advice. The 5+ years is a guideline but depending on interest rate, could be 2.5 to 12.5 years before break even. The only real guideline should be you need to occupy your home for 2 of the last 5 years to qualify for cap gains exemption (if there are even any gains)