How are applicants ranked

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Mage said:
But I wonder if I should also tell the programs which I'm genuinely going to rank highly that I will, in fact, rank them highly. Can divulging that hurt me in any way?
Can't hurt, can only help, and how high "highly" is is open to interpretation.

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I wrote in my thankyou notes to everyone at my first-choice program that it is my first choice. Everyone else got "highly."
 
orientedtoself said:
Can't hurt, can only help, and how high "highly" is is open to interpretation.
"highly" is open to broad interpretation. the same goes for "very highly" or "extremely highly."

From talking to the PD at my program, the phrase "I will rank you #1" is even taken with a grain of salt. There are countless stories, apparently, where the applicant commits but ends up matching elsewhere on Match Day.
 
AngryTesticle said:
"highly" is open to broad interpretation. the same goes for "very highly" or "extremely highly."

From talking to the PD at my program, the phrase "I will rank you #1" is even taken with a grain of salt. There are countless stories, apparently, where the applicant commits but ends up matching elsewhere on Match Day.

I'm just hoping to match in my top 7 (out of 15 total) so I consider "highly" to be my top 7 (for radiology, it seems the average candidate matches around the 4-6th choice).

So I guess telling a program that they're "among my top choices" or will be "ranked highly" isn't really taken too seriously unless followed up somehow.
 
Will it look bad on my ranking if I personally visit the PD days after my interview, hand him over my thank you note, and finally ask him if I will be RANKED to MATCH? I was told by the secretary that I was "considered highly" after I did my interview with this program. Thanks for the info guys.
 
coolMD said:
Will it look bad on my ranking if I personally visit the PD days after my interview, hand him over my thank you note, and finally ask him if I will be RANKED to MATCH? I was told by the secretary that I was "considered highly" after I did my interview with this program. Thanks for the info guys.

It depends on the PD. If I had already told you twice that we make our list after interviews are completed, and you persisted, as somebody did the other day, it would be irritating.
 
coolMD said:
Will it look bad on my ranking if I personally visit the PD days after my interview, hand him over my thank you note, and finally ask him if I will be RANKED to MATCH? I was told by the secretary that I was "considered highly" after I did my interview with this program. Thanks for the info guys.
Well, it's technically against the rules to ask where a program will rank you as it is for the program to ask you where you will rank them.

Handing the PD a thank you note and saying "thanks again" may be a bit redundant. If you were that you are being "considered highly" you did well and just leave it at that.

As BKN alluded...be gracious but be careful of acts that may be construed as annoying even if you think you have the best intentions.
 
thanks BKN and AT. your thoughts are "highly" appreciated. haha. this forum wont survive without people like you. I wish you luck in your respective endeavors! :clap:
 
coolMD said:
thanks BKN and AT. your thoughts are "highly" appreciated. haha. this forum wont survive without people like you. I wish you luck in your respective endeavors! :clap:
I have no endeavors! I am still a baby in the grand scheme of things.

But, you're very welcome :)
 
I think BKN's and AT's advice are also excellent. Thanks!!

But, here is MY dilemma. I KNOW that I want to be at a certain program (I have an interview scheduled in 10 days there...and how do I know it's my top choice...well, they have a lot of what I am looking for), so how do I go about telling them that they ARE my top choice w/o them rolling their eyes and thinking "yeah...we've heard that before!" And telling them the reasons are the same reasons that EVERYONE says, so that won't work either.

In fact, I am SO serious that they are my #1 choice that I am willing to sign outside the match if need be (I am a DO student...I can do that), but I can't tell them that either since it'll seem like I am groveling!!!

Advice (AT or BKN or anyone else)


BTW...if ANYONE here is an IM resident @ SUNY-Downstate...YOU'RE MY #1 CHOICE!!!!!!!!!
 
medlaw06 said:
I think BKN's and AT's advice are also excellent. Thanks!!

But, here is MY dilemma. I KNOW that I want to be at a certain program (I have an interview scheduled in 10 days there...and how do I know it's my top choice...well, they have a lot of what I am looking for), so how do I go about telling them that they ARE my top choice w/o them rolling their eyes and thinking "yeah...we've heard that before!" And telling them the reasons are the same reasons that EVERYONE says, so that won't work either.

In fact, I am SO serious that they are my #1 choice that I am willing to sign outside the match if need be (I am a DO student...I can do that), but I can't tell them that either since it'll seem like I am groveling!!!

Advice (AT or BKN or anyone else)


BTW...if ANYONE here is an IM resident @ SUNY-Downstate...YOU'RE MY #1 CHOICE!!!!!!!!!

I don't think they will roll their eyes...just tell them!! You can also write a letter or e-mail after the interview repeating your interest. Does signing contracts outside of match still happens (I thought it wasn't allowed anymore)?
 
I told my first choice program they were such during the interviews and again in the thank-you letters. If you say "first choice" and back it up with reasons, no one will roll their eyes at you.
 
I was just wondering, i'm still confused. Ok, for my 1st choice I should let them know somehow that they are my 1st.
what about my second? third ? 4th? Should I also let them know how I"m ranking them, or at least let them know that they are in my top 5?

And when should I do this, after my interviews, or just before the match?

Thanks everyone, you guys have been great!
 
I was wondering, if I get offered a prematch (i'm an IMG, so that might happen), and i still have other interviews to go, if i tell them i'm sorry, but i feel obliged to go to my other interviews before making a decision, could they change their minds?
 
hzma said:
I was wondering, if I get offered a prematch (i'm an IMG, so that might happen), and i still have other interviews to go, if i tell them i'm sorry, but i feel obliged to go to my other interviews before making a decision, could they change their minds?

Of course. The point of prematch from the PD's view is to ensure that he fills his program. He might be giving up his chance to get his first choice (assuming you are not it) in order to know that he gets somebody acceptable. If you won't commit, he may well find somebody who will. Your dilemma is that if somebody is willing to offer you such, you are probably a bit more competitive than others in his pool and have a reasonable chance in the match. You just have to weigh how you feel about taking a particular place versus shooting for your first choice.
 
hzma said:
I was just wondering, i'm still confused. Ok, for my 1st choice I should let them know somehow that they are my 1st.
what about my second? third ? 4th? Should I also let them know how I"m ranking them, or at least let them know that they are in my top 5?
"you're in my top 5" = you are #5. And who wants to hear that they are #5 in line? My advice is stick to "highly" or "#1".
 
Thanks!! Things slowly become clearer as we near the end- not so near but nearer than we were! :)
 
BKN said:
It depends on the PD. If I had already told you twice that we make our list after interviews are completed, and you persisted, as somebody did the other day, it would be irritating.

Hey Dr. BKN, just out of curiosity. When you 1st talk to an applicant whether it be in a formal interview or at a pre interview dinner, how do you "size" a candidate up? Are there certain qualities you look for in your mind? How about qualities that commonly impress you during the initial meeting?

thanks
 
OneStrongBro said:
Hey Dr. BKN, just out of curiosity. When you 1st talk to an applicant whether it be in a formal interview or at a pre interview dinner, how do you "size" a candidate up? Are there certain qualities you look for in your mind, or qualities that commonly impress you during the initial meeting?

thanks

I don't know about the "initial meeting". For people from OOT, it's usually the formal interview and I've already read their entire application twice, once when I offered the interview and again the day before. So I already have a fairly clear idea what I want to find out about that person.

However given a generic candidate who I know nothing about, I suspect most EM PDs would be looking for the same things at first glance:
1. Interpersonal skills
2. Ability to "think on her feet", because that's literally what we do all day.
3. Information base
4. willingness to open his wallet and . . .never mind.

Did that help?
 
Hi BKN and Angry Testicle, I've noticed u make sensible posts... Would like to know your honest opinion about this matter... I received 2 letters from the PD of my first choice already. Both letters are very positive, handwritten, and sounded encouraging. I know they have said not to take these things too seriously, but do u think i stand a good chance of matching here? Would PD's take time writing u just for courtesy or do they mean what they write?
 
yonex said:
Hi BKN and Angry Testicle, I've noticed u make sensible posts... Would like to know your honest opinion about this matter... I received 2 letters from the PD of my first choice already. Both letters are very positive, handwritten, and sounded encouraging. I know they have said not to take these things too seriously, but do u think i stand a good chance of matching here? Would PD's take time writing u just for courtesy or do they mean what they write?

If he/she wrote you twice, handwritten, I'd be very optimistic. :love:
 
Does it matter? It's your first choice. Rank it first, open the envelope on March 16th. There is absolutely nothing you can do in the meantime but fret about it.
 
I advise applicants to inform their number one choice that they are "number one" and use those words.

Do not write to other programs and use words such as "top of my list" or "highly." Would you send a letter that says, "I really liked your program, but I am not ranking you number one?" You are saying the same thing.


orientedtoself said:
"you're in my top 5" = you are #5. And who wants to hear that they are #5 in line? My advice is stick to "highly" or "#1".
 
Butch said:
I advise applicants to inform their number one choice that they are "number one" and use those words.

Do not write to other programs and use words such as "top of my list" or "highly." Would you send a letter that says, "I really liked your program, but I am not ranking you number one?" You are saying the same thing.

My problem is that my top 5 programs rotate daily. I wanted to get a thank you letter out, and sincerely they are all #1 depending on the day, so they all got a "top of my list", "highly", "hope to be working w/you next year", not because I was lying, but because it's true. I changed my mind twice yesterday alone.

I guess that I'm just super blessed to be psyched on so many programs :) When the time comes that I submit my list (after 6 beers, and a lot of liquid courage), I will call the PD at my #1 and let him know personally. Hope this works.
 
TysonCook said:
I will call the PD at my #1 and let him know personally. Hope this works.
That works too. I don't think it really matters how you tell the PD as long as that you let him/her know of your intentions. People seem to fret regarding the mode of communication...email vs. letter vs. phone call...it's not that important. Email is free and that works too :)

Best of luck.
 
I've been sending out hand-written thank you notes, but since I wanted to be sure that my "you're #1" message got there in time, I sent an email to the PD. The response was just "Thanks for your interest." That doesn't seem like a good sign :( Damn, it's so depressing hearing about these people who are getting encouraging letters and notes from PDs - I feel like a total reject.
 
Personally, I feel letters or email work well. Phone calls are difficult because this time of year is so busy for us - I'm rarely sitting at my desk - plus there is the potential for nerves coming into play, sounding awkward, etc.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't feel like you have to call as your mode of communication. Emails/letters are more 'controllable' scenarios for you.
 
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