How competitive is HPSP scholarship for military this year?

[572776]

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Is anybody applying for HPSP this year? If you received the scholarship what were some of your stats? My gpa is good but mcat is another story

 

[rafman]

I was looking into the Air Force and Navy. My Navy recruiter said if you have above a 28 MCAT and 3.5 cgpa, you should be pretty competitive. If MCAT is lower, I think you have to go through an additional process, my recruiter never specified, she kinda flew throught that part. I heard the Air Force scholarship is more competitive, so I'm guessing they would want higher than a 28, not sure

 

[572776]

I was looking into the Air Force and Navy. My Navy recruiter said if you have above a 28 MCAT and 3.5 cgpa, you should be pretty competitive. If MCAT is lower, I think you have to go through an additional process, my recruiter never specified, she kinda flew throught that part. I heard the Air Force scholarship is more competitive, so I'm guessing they would want higher than a 28, not sure

Yeah Air Force keeps ignoring me and not returning my phone calls after they found out my MCAT score

 

[MilitaryMed]

I am meeting with my navy recruiter to start filling out my application this monday. I have a 28R MCAT, 3.9 GPA, and three DO acceptances. He said I should be fine.

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

Can you only start filling out the application after receiving an acceptance?

 

[572776]

Can you only start filling out the application after receiving an acceptance?

No you should contact them asap so that you get started. You only need an acceptance to send all your app to the board for review. You have to get them a bunch of materials, fill out application/personal statement, and get a physical exam and all of that takes a while. Get started on that so that you have everything ready to go once you get your acceptance.

 

[jdoctorm]

I know to be matrix qualified in the USAF you need a 30 MCAT and 3.5 GPA. If you have that you don't have to go through boards. If you have to go through boards, it sounds like you need to have your application in by December, because that's when it fills up.

I also heard that the AF is the most competitive, while the Army is the least competitive. So if you are applying late (March, April), there probably won't be any air force spots open.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I got an army letter, and I tnought iit said 3.5 and 27+ is an automatic acceptance.

 

[jdoctorm]

Maybe, but it is definitely 3.5 and a 30 for the Air Force. I know because I have my application in (and should hear back in the next week).

I would reiterate that there is a bit of paperwork and it took me a few weeks to get everything in order. I had everything done (paper work, essays, physical, etc.) before I received my acceptance letter.

 

[IDFsoldierboy]

if I am not mistaken with the army you get the scholarship automatically if you have a 30+ and a 3.5+
at least thats what the recruiter told me

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

I'm going to get started next week, it seems like the AF has the best feedback among the branches...

 

[IDFsoldierboy]

I'm going to get started next week, it seems like the AF has the best feedback among the branches...

it really depends what your plans are/what you want to do etc...i have heard if you have a family the best is AF but the navy has some of the cooler positions...i mean who wouldnt want to be a doc for the navy seals! and i have heard from many that the army has the most residency positions available

 

[572776]

it really depends what your plans are/what you want to do etc...i have heard if you have a family the best is AF but the navy has some of the cooler positions...i mean who wouldnt want to be a doc for the navy seals! and i have heard from many that the army has the most residency positions available

Women can't be a doc for navy seals or anything combat/special ops related 🙁

 

[IlDestriero]

Women can't be a doc for navy seals or anything combat/special ops related 🙁

WTF are you talking about? Physicians are not combat troops.
And trust me, women deploy into combat zones.
P.S. HPSP is a bad choice for almost everyone. Read about all your options, etc at the milmed forum.

 

[corpsman33]

WTF are you talking about? Physicians are not combat troops.
And trust me, women deploy into combat zones.
P.S. HPSP is a bad choice for almost everyone. Read about all your options, etc at the milmed forum.

HPSP is not a bad choice for "almost everyone". It is actually a very good choice depending upon your situation. You get a stipend to live off of during medical school, tuition is paid for (no student loans), and while the majority of med students are getting paid meager wages during residency, as an HPSP student you will be commissioned as an O-3 officer during residency and making close to $100,000 a year (taking into consideration bah, bas, benefits, etc) during this time.

However, you will owe the military time in return (typically 4 years after residency) and you will deploy, be moved around, etc. and all the other stuff that accompanies joining the military.

Also, in response to the OP's question, it is better to apply to HPSP early. They have a set number of spots to fill and once they are filled then you are out of luck. The earlier you apply the better. Also, you are not obligated by applying. You aren't obligated until you sign the final paperwork and swear in.

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

I have a dumb question, but the fact that it is unanswered is leaving me a bit skeptical.

Is it easy to meet women while on active duty? I'm not worried about talking to women or anything like that, but I just don't want to to be 33 and not married. Should I be considering this when making my HPSP decision?

 

[IlDestriero]

The achillies heel of HPSP is military GME. It's probably adequate for primary care, however for everything else it is average at best. If you take HPSP you commit yourself to the whims and shifting staffing of military GME. You can pray for outservice training, delay your residency, or accept average training.
I posted a lengthy commentary on the above over in milmed. One reply said it was unrealistic to compare military GME to top tier civilian programs because the quality of HPSP students has declined since I applied many years ago. I refuse to accept that argument. Anyone can focus, work very hard, score well on the USMLE, get involved in research, and get into an above average residency, if not a top tier one. You do NOT want to commit yourself to military GME, unpredictable staffing needs, etc. The decision you make today affects your life for the next 8-15 years. Do you aspire to secure average training, or do you want the best possible training that you can get? Most shoot for the stars. However feel free to shoot yourself in the foot and limit your future options for some short term monetary considerations. (Most seem to join for the money.)
I don't recommend it to many people. Look at the FAP if you're really interested in serving and control your own destiny.

 

[572776]

WTF are you talking about? Physicians are not combat troops.
And trust me, women deploy into combat zones.
P.S. HPSP is a bad choice for almost everyone. Read about all your options, etc at the milmed forum.

i said that women cant be physicians for the navy seals because its spec ops (at least that is what my recruiter said)...yes physicians are not combat troops..we are all aware of that thank you

 

[corpsman33]

The achillies heel of HPSP is military GME. It's probably adequate for primary care, however for everything else it is average at best. If you take HPSP you commit yourself to the whims and shifting staffing of military GME. You can pray for outservice training, delay your residency, or accept average training.
I posted a lengthy commentary on the above over in milmed. One reply said it was unrealistic to compare military GME to top tier civilian programs because the quality of HPSP students has declined since I applied many years ago. I refuse to accept that argument. Anyone can focus, work very hard, score well on the USMLE, get involved in research, and get into an above average residency, if not a top tier one. You do NOT want to commit yourself to military GME, unpredictable staffing needs, etc. The decision you make today affects your life for the next 8-15 years. Do you aspire to secure average training, or do you want the best possible training that you can get? Most shoot for the stars. However feel free to shoot yourself in the foot and limit your future options for some short term monetary considerations. (Most seem to join for the money.)
I don't recommend it to many people. Look at the FAP if you're really interested in serving and control your own destiny.

Pretty cynical if you ask me. Of course money is always a consideration whenever a person's career is at stake, however many people actually do desire to serve this nation. FAP is another option, but most of the doctors I know are very well pleased with HPSP.

I also know that many of the Navy doctors I have worked with are extremely gifted physicians. At Naval Medical Center San Diego the residents get the opportunity to engage in advanced procedures, some of which are only performed at a handful of civilian facilities, or so I've heard. I've also worked in 2 civilian hospitals before joining the military (one private and one community facility) and I would venture to say that the training received by Navy physicians is far superior to what I have personally witnessed in the civilian sector.

 

[preDoGuy24]

Your debating with a Military Attending Physician, He knows more than you about all things Medicine/being an attending in the Military. The military health system is a shadow of what it once was, I didn't accept my scholarship for that very reason...I want the best training I can get as a physician and that won't be found in the military GME.

Pretty cynical if you ask me. Of course money is always a consideration whenever a person's career is at stake, however many people actually do desire to serve this nation. FAP is another option, but most of the doctors I know are very well pleased with HPSP.

I also know that many of the Navy doctors I have worked with are extremely gifted physicians. At Naval Medical Center San Diego the residents get the opportunity to engage in advanced procedures, some of which are only performed at a handful of civilian facilities, or so I've heard. I've also worked in 2 civilian hospitals before joining the military (one private and one community facility) and I would venture to say that the training received by Navy physicians is far superior to what I have personally witnessed in the civilian sector.

 

[corpsman33]

Your debating with a Military Attending Physician, He knows more than you about all things Medicine/being an attending in the Military. The military health system is a shadow of what it once was, I didn't accept my scholarship for that very reason...I want the best training I can get as a physician and that won't be found in the military GME.

Very True. I may have a blind eye to many of the negative aspects of military medicine, but as an enlisted member in the armed forces I have been inspired by many of the Medical Corps members I serve with. I would consider it an absolute privilege to serve alongside these men and women regardless of military GME.

That being said, I meant no disrespect, I just have a very high regard for Navy medicine.

 

[IlDestriero]

Pretty cynical if you ask me. Of course money is always a consideration whenever a person's career is at stake, however many people actually do desire to serve this nation. FAP is another option, but most of the doctors I know are very well pleased with HPSP.

I also know that many of the Navy doctors I have worked with are extremely gifted physicians. At Naval Medical Center San Diego the residents get the opportunity to engage in advanced procedures, some of which are only performed at a handful of civilian facilities, or so I've heard. I've also worked in 2 civilian hospitals before joining the military (one private and one community facility) and I would venture to say that the training received by Navy physicians is far superior to what I have personally witnessed in the civilian sector.

I don't know what you witnessed in the civilian sector, but specialist training at NMCSD, the pride of navy medicine, dosen't hold a candle to what is offered at prominent academic medical centers. And I can say that with 1000% certainty as I've trained and/or worked at both. The case load, routine complexity of the cases, research opportunities, quality and experience of the faculty, etc. It's just not there. It's fine training, adequate, average, but not comparable at all. Big name centers get referrals from all over the US, and the world, to have procedures done by senior faculty and rising superstars that develop the new techniques, write the books, do the research. Navy GME is fine, but as I said above, committing to Navy GME as a premed is going to be a big let down if you find yourself in a position to have matched at an above average training program. I can say honestly that an average day where I currently work (at a prominent academic referral center), in terms of case complexity, is equivalent to the worst days that I had while at NMCSD. You can only learn so much from books and lectures. You need to get it done yourself in the trenches.
Here's what I wrote in another thread in the milmed forum, with some specifics pertaining to anesthesia. If superior quality anesthesia experience is lacking, by definition superior surgical training is also lacking. Don't take my word for it, read the milmed posts. Feel free to discount milmed fanboys that have no idea what they missed out on. Former staff like me trained in 10/10 programs and understand what's absent. These other civilian trained residents and staff aren't posting that I'm wrong, because I'm not.

"The complex cases are what separates the men from the boys. High volume healthy patients are of limited utility. Repeated exposure to the full range of complex pathology is critical to success in anesthesia. Having sick people go south, providing anesthesia for technically complex cases, detecting and correcting problems, etc is part of quality comprehensive training. No trauma, no transplant, limited vascular, cardiac, neuro, complex peds, etc is hugely detrimental to training in anesthesia. That is where you get exposure to complications and learn how to skillfully handle emergencies. Relying on going to other facilities for 4 weeks for exposure to the above, with surgeons and attendings that don't know you and have limited investment in your success is not an answer. Having to try to make up for multiple significant weaknesses in your program should raise some giant red flags. This training is your future. Reading all about things, and having nice morning lectures ain't the same. After a few years at the "outpatient training center", you're alone on call in your PP paradise when the ruptured AAA comes through the door... oh boy. Get to work tiger.
Regional may be better now, I wouldn't know. It was dominated by the S/CRNAs when I was there. The residents had very limited block experience, and if it was not for the pain clinic, they would have no way of making their minimum block numbers. All the staff were part of this problem. I don't really like regional, so I wasn't doing any more than necessary. As I said in another post, the staff were all talented and friendly, supportive of each other and the program, but few benefited from civilian training, none had fellowships in anything (excluding pain and peds). That's a military wide problem that they seem to be trying to fix. When I was there, not one cardiac anesthesiologist had CV training, and none were TEE certified. OJT can only get you so far, especially when you are perfecting your skills while simultaneously training others.
Your post actually supports mine quite well WRT problems at NMCSD. There were plenty of relatively healthy patients and healthy peds there, just very limited complex pts. It's not uncommon to have limited complex peds exposure during a residency with an affiliated Children's Hospital. It is uncommon to have a 1/2 empty ICU (that is also 1/2 the size of a similar sized hospital) and limited complex pathology going to the OR. They did have my personal favorite, complex OB. Complex OB with staff that had limited complex OB training, and personality disorders. God forbid I wanted to put in a swan, or even an aline, they had a hissy fit. Like they really care what we do. It's not my fault they don't understand why I want a swan in their obese, edematous, severe preeclamptic patient with pulmonary edema. But I digress.

I think my eval was quite realistic, particularly in comparison to what one can expect from a top tier training program, though not the top 1% but perhaps the top 20 or 25% of programs. What should you do if you're an average DO student? Average MD? I couldn't say, other than go FAP vs HPSP, or try to get a deferral and get the best civilian training you can find."

Don't settle for average.
(note I'm referring to specialty training, I think primary care is probably pretty good.)

Here's a good thread to read, with some good links inside to read as well about military GME.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=781526&highlight=Nmcsd

PS I am generally happy with my military experiences, HPSP, payback, everything. I got all the breaks, good luck, good timing, wise choices. It all worked out great for me. I got exactly what I wanted. No regrets, but that ain't the norm. I joined because I wanted to serve my country and the people putting their asses on the line every day, to follow in longstanding family tradition of government service, etc., not for the loot. In fact I lost a ton of money by joining.

 

[IlDestriero]

Very True. I may have a blind eye to many of the negative aspects of military medicine, but as an enlisted member in the armed forces I have been inspired by many of the Medical Corps members I serve with. I would consider it an absolute privilege to serve alongside these men and women regardless of military GME.

That being said, I meant no disrespect, I just have a very high regard for Navy medicine.

Having a high regard for Navy medicine is fine, as is being inspired my the MC officers that you work with, over here and abroad where the rubber meets the road. However that has nothing to do with the average quality of military GME training programs.
That's the beauty of the FAP program. You can still join, stay forever if you want, BUT you control your own destiny, and you may find that you have the stuff to train at a top 20% program afterall. (you don't need a 4.0 and a 260, unless you're derm😉, trust me!) Then you can bring that superior training back with you to do great things in the .mil! (until you get out and get the dollar$$$)
Much of GME is what you make of it. You can squander opportunities, go out of your way to make up for deficiencies, etc. But specialists need in the trenches routine beatings to rise to the top of their game. The best place for that is not military GME.
Good luck wherever you end up, and stay safe!👍

 

[corpsman33]

Having a high regard for Navy medicine is fine, as is being inspired my the MC officers that you work with, over here and abroad where the rubber meets the road. However that has nothing to do with the average quality of military GME training programs.
That's the beauty of the FAP program. You can still join, stay forever if you want, BUT you control your own destiny, and you may find that you have the stuff to train at a top 20% program afterall. (you don't need a 4.0 and a 260, unless you're derm😉, trust me!) Then you can bring that superior training back with you to do great things in the .mil! (until you get out and get the dollar$$$)
Much of GME is what you make of it. You can squander opportunities, go out of your way to make up for deficiencies, etc. But specialists need in the trenches routine beatings to rise to the top of their game. The best place for that is not military GME.
Good luck wherever you end up, and stay safe!👍

Thanks.