how competitive?

[chauffeur]

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I'm an MS3 and interested in PM&R.
How competive is this residency?
As baseline: would someone with national average on boards get in with good recs?

*If most schools only have this rotation during 4th year and little elective time for it during 3rd year... what do residency directors look for?

 

[seefutlone]

I don't think it is as yet especially competitive. However, this is a small field with around 300 spots each year, so it can turn around quite quickly.

 

[unregistered]

I've heard it described as about the same competitiveness as family medicine or internal medicine. basically i think you just have to pass your classes and boards. a friend who goes to one of the better programs in the east said her fellow residents had usmle scores about the national mean

 

[bustbones26]

Ever notice how field of medicine go in waves?

For example, today, it is next to impossible to get and ER residency because everybody knows that most ER docs don't wear a pager at home, don't worry about overhead, get days off, just show up, and collect a pay check.

Thanks to invasive radiology, now everybody wants to be a radiologist because even the crappiest radiologist is bringing home at least $300K and live a pretty good lifestyle

And everybody wants to be an opthalmologist, urologist, or ENT because they are all three fields where one bring homw big $$ doing short procedures, and not having to work the slaving hours that a gen surgeon puts forth.

And everybody wants to be a dermatologist because you will never wear a pager, how many emergencies are you going to get called for, and still make big $$$.


It may sound like I am whining, but I suppose one of my pet peeves is that nobody seems to go into a field anymore for the sake of having a passion for that field. Once in the surg forum I think one person put it best by saying that yes, he worked long hours, but he loved being a surgeon, and if you like what you do, then you won't mind working.

What does this have to do with PM&R? I talked to an infectious disease doctor at my school last year. She said that wehn she graduated med school, an enourmous amount of people in her class did PM&R because they all knew it was one field where they would never get called for an emergency. Maybe they'd never make the money that some specialist do, but ehy'd still get to make six figs and live a pretty good lifestyle,

So my point is, medicine works in waves. 10 years from now when we so many radiologist, dermatologist, ER docs, etc. people will start to say, hmmm, what other field can I go into where I can still make big $$ and live a good lifestyle. I think then you will see a flooding of PM&R again.

So the cycle goes on and on. ITs a shame, but the way it is anymore.

 

[docmani]

they also make good money with an excellent lifestyle....i agree with you...medicine is just a cycle....and you should do what makes you happy and not for compensation...i know of a cardiologist who makes $$$$$$ but his wife told me she rarely sees him at home let alone their kids........the bottom line, if you say you can't live a great life on say 130-180,000/year, i wonder......

 

[Ligament]

I think it is perfectly fine to choose a specialty based on money and lifestyle. I no longer think one has to or even should *love* the specialty they are in. If you do love it, that is a wonderful bonus IMHO.

I happen to really enjoy PM&R. Of course there are aspects that I hate, but its still a job and puts food on the table.

I am very happy to have a stable well paying job even if I do not like some of it. I never need to worry about being laid off or being unemployed. This is a huge blessing most physicians do not recognize.

Anyway, I have no problems with those that choose rads and derm based on the money per hour worked. They are smart business people, at least for now while these specialties are hot.

Best, Ligament

 

[Finally M3]

Bustbones makes somes good points....I remember ten years ago, there was a story in "Time" about a California anesthesiologist who was only making 60K a year and having to cover at four hospitals. Don't think that guy is having a problem right now...but it just shows how cyclical things can be. For all those people flocking into Radiology for the lifestyle and money, it can just as quickly turn around as more and more hospitals are outsourcing their overnight images over the Internet to imaging centers in Podunk, Oklahoma....

Bottom line; enjoy what you do! 😛

As for myself and PMR, I came down to deciding between Internal Medicine and PMR, and to be quite honest about it, lifestyle DID play a role in my decision. Gen Internal Meds work a lot harder for the same or less money than a physiatrist.

 

[bbbmd]

Its my third month of PM&R residency and I could not be happier and more content with my decision. I may not "save" lives on a daily basis like I did as a medicine intern, but I am making lives worth living... And if thats not enough to make you feel like a real doctor, I dont know what else will!!!

Who cares if PM&R is not the most competitive field, or not as "popular" a profession as the other specialties... What counts is how you feel when you write for a day pass for your Spinal Cord Injured patient (who improved enough in transfers, is safe on a wheelchair, whose wounds are under control, who learned how to use a tendon transfer for improved function in eating and whose spasticity is finally controlled with medications) to be able to go out and eat a nice dinner for the first time after his injury with his wife. I feel much more like the kind of "doctor" I always wanted to grow up to be and I don't even "save lives" anymore!!!!

My point.... I dont care how competitive PM&R becomes in the future, just as long as I know that the program directors accepts only those who really believe in the specialty and not only those after the "lifestyle". Yes, the lifestyle is good, but if that is the only thing you are after, then you won't be as happy as I am at the end of the day at a typical SCI unit!!!!

 

[drusso]

bbbmd,

Well said. Intensivists and traumatologists may "save lives" daily, but physiatrists "save quality of life." That said, I'm sure you've already seen that medical issues do frequently arise on rehabilitation units that are life threatening. I think we underestimate the medical management we do because it seems so routine: Ensuring adequate anticoagulation, monitoring multiple chronic medical conditions and treatments, checking labs, treating bread and butter medical problems (pneumonias, renal problems, TPN, UTI's, etc) and neurological sequellae of diseases. Any of these issues left unrecognized could and would certainly jeopardize a patient's life and their long-term functional potential.

--DR

 

[unregistered]

hi guys,

This is a different person using the unregistered account here. I was wondering what types of grades/usmle scores were necessary for the CA schools? like stanford, ucla, uci, ucd? is anybody here in one of those programs?

thanx

 

[StinkyTofu]

I don't really know what USMLE scores you need to match, but I know that externships help tremendously at a couple of the programs in CA. The programs tend to be somewhat more competitive than they should be because of location and the limited positions available. Of the programs in CA, the most competitive is probably Stanford and they only have three spots too. The least competitive programs are probably UCI and Loma Linda. Personally, I thought UC Davis had the best program.

 

[unregistered]

Bustbones, I agree with you but your post is very tangential given the nature of our previous posts. We aren't talking about the cycle of medicine here... applicants really would like to know HOW they can get into PMR in terms of grades, usmle, activities, research, etc. Thank you for your input but if you really want to help us out, maybe you could give us answer some of questions.

This is a recurring question I've noticed within these posts about how competitive is PMR or what kind of grades do I need, specifcally for anyone currently in a california school. well i guess there's no one on here right now from cali or they are busy.

So far we have only had one other anonymous person mention that you basically just have to pass your classes and usmle and do a little research in PMR and voila you're there, but I want to know if this is true or what others have had to do.

 

[seefutlone]

If you are in an allopathic US accredited medical school, and pass your classes and USMLE, you should be able to get into a decent program in Cali... especially if you are attending a Cali program already.

 

[BCJ]

Hello all, I've been a passive observer for a while now, but now I've been motivated to post.

I am a US citizen (chiropractor) studying in Australia and I've just applied to 21 PM&R programs. My Step 1 two digit score is in the 90s and I think I have good letters. The only thing that worries me now is that I won't have my Step 2 or CSA scores until late Jan 04, and won't have full ECFMG certification until March 2004. Based on that I'm afraid that I might not have my application considered for the current match based on its not being complete.

If I have my application, Step1 score, 4 LOR, my dean's letter, personal statement and CV in, do you think I'll be considered for an interview given the relative late arrival of the rest of my materials?

Also, I've applied to most of the top programs, but also to many unknown programs (unk at least to me) so I've covered the spectrum pretty well hopefully.

One problem that I've already run into with the Univ of Washington is that they require 12 mo of US clerkships/experience before they will consider a foreign applicant. Another top program requires the same I've noticed.

Any thoughts on these particular problems vis a vis the topic of "how competitive"?

Cheers!

p.s. if this topic is best put into another folder, please do so

 

[drusso]

Maybe you would need to apply first to transitional years or preliminary years in medicine and then apply to PGY-2 level PM&R positions?

 

[BCJ]

Originally posted by drusso
Maybe you would need to apply first to transitional years or preliminary years in medicine and then apply to PGY-2 level PM&R positions?

Yeah I have thought about that, but I've been told that one is more likely to get a PGY2 spot applying straight out of med school (at the same time one applies for the prelim year).

Actually Univ of Wash suggested that I do just what you are suggesting, that is, start the prelim year and apply to them outside the match after a few months into it. That would leave me hanging a bit though, and at this point I'll probably go for the best program that gives me an interview.


Also, I've been told that when looking for a program the location where one wants to live is the most important consideration since local area networking with other doctors is a more important factor when trying to secure a good job than the prestige of one's diploma. What do you think?

Thanks for your thoughts, and I'm looking forward to joining your profession.

 

[Alujna]

how competitive is it right now? Have the trends changed? Are there more seats available? can anyone pls answer this.. I have checked out most of the stuff on PM&R but a lot of them are in 2002-03, so can someone give me their current opinion...
thanks a lot
also i'm an IMG, so could pls tell me based on that.

 

[olafa]

wow that thread is is blast from the past! My opinion is that PMR has gotten more and more competetive over the years and definately moreso than FP/IM like one of the old posts states. There are always left over IM or FP spots where the PMR spots are all filled with only a samll handful left over but quickly are filled. Having a genuine interest in PM&R is a bonus and is sometimes evident in those who don't. Look at some of the old match threads it should give you an idea of which programs are more competetive, what sort of numbers etc...

how competitive is it right now? Have the trends changed? Are there more seats available? can anyone pls answer this.. I have checked out most of the stuff on PM&R but a lot of them are in 2002-03, so can someone give me their current opinion...
thanks a lot
also i'm an IMG, so could pls tell me based on that.